Jealousy a Root of Monogamy?

. . . I think the drivers generally behind mono are in many ways less healthy than the drivers generally behind poly.
A great many people get into polyamorous relationships because they think it would be cool to fuck a lot of people and not have to ask permission. Most people get into monogamous relationships because they want to commit long-term to a loving partnership and raise a family together and see no reason to have more than two people involved in order to do that. Which is "healthier?"
 
A great many people get into polyamorous relationships because they think it would be cool to fuck a lot of people and not have to ask permission. Most people get into monogamous relationships because they want to commit long-term to a loving partnership and raise a family together and see no reason to have more than two people involved in order to do that. Which is "healthier?"
A great many people get into monogamous relationships because they have an insecurity-based need to be someone's "one and only", and any other scenario sets them sideways. Most people get into poly relationships because they want to commit long-term to loving partnerships (and many times live their lives together and raise a family) and see no reason to arbitrarily limit it one person. Which is "healthier"?

Actually, if the truth be told, I think the majority of people who get into monogamous relationships do so because 1) That's the social expectation, and 2) They can't stand the thought of their significant other loving someone other than them. That's not why they get into a relationship with the person--they do so because of the reasons you mentioned. But the reason it's a *monogamous* relationship is largely because of my points above. In their minds, there is no other option because of those things.
 
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The problem is, you're trying to create a logical discussion based on your own EMOTIONAL response to something. Your assumption is that the large majority of people get into monogamous relationships because of your reasons 1 & 2 is simply baseless. If this is a truly logical argument, where are your facts and figures? Your opinions are meaningless in a logical argument if they're not backed up.

People aren't disagreeing with you based on your argument that jealousy is less healthy than non-jealousy, they're disagreeing with your assumption that MONOGAMY = JEALOUSY. You throw around words like "majority" "great many people" "most people" yet provide no statistical data to back that up.

You see, just because you've decided to call yourself polyamorous, it doesn't mean that jealousy just disappears. I still get jealous just as much in my poly arrangements as I ever did in my mono arrangements of the past. The problem is that we've been conditioned to believe that relationship = ownership. The thing is, there are people out there who have got over the relationship = ownership issue, and are STILL monogamous. Some people honestly PREFER being with just one person, and it's nothing to do with jealousy. Just like I prefer being with lots of different people - different strokes for different folks. The idea that anyone who's got over the feeling of jealousy would naturally be polyamorous is just faulty - jealousy is an emotion that affects both poly and mono people.

Also to nycindie, I don't see anything wrong with wanting to fuck a lot of people and not have to ask permission, I don't believe that either of the two options you present are unhealthy as long as you're honest about your desires.
 
Also to nycindie, I don't see anything wrong with wanting to fuck a lot of people and not have to ask permission, I don't believe that either of the two options you present are unhealthy as long as you're honest about your desires.

That was my point and why I put quotes around the word healthy. I wasn't actually saying one was more healthy than the other but asking how we can judge the health of a relationship based on outside appearances. It's the people involved that make it healthy, not necessarily the parameters that do so.
 
I don't know what has been written on this thread but I wanted to reply to your original thoughts before going back and reading. Excuse me if there are repeats.

I think that the idea of people avoiding crossing the bridge is valid, but it think its for different reasons than one might think. Having talked a lot about monogamy and polyamory with both types of people I have come to realize that mostly people who are monogamous think the idea of poly as a theory but in practice they just don't have the time, interest or inclination to pursue it. They prefer other "hobbies" over their relationship dynamics.

It seems for some self work is not that important and other things in life are. So why bother going down roads that have known bridges if you can take the over pass quite happily. I don't think its much to do with jealousy until one partner wants to try out a poly lifestyle for whatever reason.

By doing a tag search for "mono/poly" you will find additions to this discussion. It could shed more light on what mono people think.
 
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It seems for some; self work is not that important and other things in life are. So why bother going down roads that have known bridges if you can take the over pass quite happily.

RP, I am about to scold you! I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're saying mono people choose the easy way out because they're uninterested in doing "self work," which I'm assuming you mean to be looking inward, examining old beliefs, working on getting to know themselves better, improving communication, all that.

WELL!

I am really surprised you would say that. The self-help industry is huge and didn't get built upon poly peeps alone. I know I've said it before, but I've been doing self-work since the early 80s. I've tried a number of different therapies and self-awareness modalities, and attended numerous workshops and courses in all the above and then some. I've even given workshops myself. Only met two poly people in all those years. Of course, some may have been in the closet, but my point is that monogamous people are just as interested in challenging old beliefs and doing "self-work" as polys are. Just because someone chooses monogamy doesn't mean they are unenlightened or narrow-minded. Some of the most progressive and radical thinkers I've ever met were in monogamous relationships with equally progressive and radical partners.

So I hope I've misunderstood you.
 
RP, I am about to scold you! I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're saying mono people choose the easy way out because they're uninterested in doing "self work," which I'm assuming you mean to be looking inward, examining old beliefs, working on getting to know themselves better, improving communication, all that.

WELL!

I am really surprised you would say that. The self-help industry is huge and didn't get built upon poly peeps alone. I know I've said it before, but I've been doing self-work since the early 80s. I've tried a number of different therapies and self-awareness modalities, and attended numerous workshops and courses in all the above and then some. I've even given workshops myself. Only met two poly people in all those years. Of course, some may have been in the closet, but my point is that monogamous people are just as interested in challenging old beliefs and doing "self-work" as polys are. Just because someone chooses monogamy doesn't mean they are unenlightened or narrow-minded. Some of the most progressive and radical thinkers I've ever met were in monogamous relationships with equally progressive and radical partners.

So I hope I've misunderstood you.
sorry. I wrote too fast and didn't edit. I meant to say the self work that is required when addressing a partner who wants to try out a poly relationship dynamic. Of course mono people do self work and care about that for themselves. A lot of it over laps even, just that some care more (not exclusive to monogamy either) about their careers, their hobbies or their kids etc. than dealing with the self crap that comes up around poly relationships. Does that make more sense?

The kind of self work mono people do as a result of a poly partner is often not chosen work either I might add. At least not initially.
 
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Hey UP, I've done some thinking about this subject and I think I've got my ideas in order. I get the distinction you're making about individual relationships versus underlying emotional drivers. And I think I understand why people here don't seem inclined to engage in the logical way you want... it's just way too personal for us. Many of us have mono family, friends, or partners who've accused us, implicitly or explicitly, of looking down on them and considering them dysfunctional because we've chosen a different model of loving. We know from experience that they *don't* deserve to be looked down on and are in no way of necessity dysfunctional, so we've been hurt by those accusations and are offended on behalf of our mono allies when someone else presents with those beliefs.

On to the question at hand! I'm going to start at the most basic level -- is jealousy, in. and of itself, unhealthy? I think it's not. Rather, I think it can be a useful part of one's emotional ecosystem. The way I'm thinking about it is not unlike how a century ago we thought wolves were bad because they killed game animals and we liked game animals, but in time we came to understand and value the role of the wolf. Something that seems bad and scary can actually have its place.

To continue the analogy, obviously we don't want uncontrolled wolves roaming our streets and eating our babies, we want to keep them in their proper place, in the wild, and will trap and re-release them if they wander too far. Similarly, we don't want jealousy -- or any of our feelings, really, but especially not a dangerous one like jealousy -- to be uncontrolled.

We need to manage our feelings and work with them, but in and of themselves they are neither bad nor good, they are merely neutral -- it's how much prominence we give them, how much intensity, how we let them affect us and manifest in our actions that matters. Does that make sense?

So, what useful role could jealousy possibly play? I think it can actually play a very useful role in letting us know when we may be being mistreated, when our emotional needs are not being met, and when we may be losing a relationship, or an aspect thereof, that we would be better off keeping.

How does this model of jealousy translate to healthy or unhealthy relationships? Let's say you're monogamous (since that's the model most people start with). You may have uncontrolled jealousy. That's a problem. You could become poly without ever resolving that problem and, sadly, some people do just that, to disastrous results. Alternately, you could examine it, deconstruct it, and control and manage it. At that point your relationship will be healthier whether you stay mono or move on to become poly. If you do the latter you'll likely have *much* more success with your ventures into poly than a person who has uncontrolled jealousy, but nothing says you have to go poly.

You may have managed, healthy jealousy and yet still feel like monogamy is an emotional need for you. Why? Maybe it just hurts too much to think of your partner loving someone else romantically. But wait, wouldn't that mean you have uncontrolled jealousy? No, you may be analyzing your reactions, correctly assessing your limits and place of greatest fulfillment, and responding calmly and appropriately. But you may realize that this desire for a monogamous partner, and the pain when you don't have that, is *still* a fundamental, natural, even integral part of the way you love. That doesn't make you bad! That doesn't make you wrong! That doesn't make you unevolved or unhealthy or anything like that. Not everyone can do poly and stay true to themselves. What matters, and makes you healthy or unhealthy, is how you recognize, explore, accept, and live by who and what you are and the natural shapes and limits of your feelings.

To assume that anyone who feels jealousy strongly enough that they're not suited to poly is automatically unhealthy, or hasn't examined and worked on their darker issues, is a bias, pure and simple.

Does all of that make sense? Do people agree? Am I missing something?
 
sorry. I wrote too fast and didn't edit. I meant to say the self work that is required when addressing a partner who wants to try out a poly relationship dynamic. Of course mono people do self work and care about that for themselves. A lot of it over laps even, just that some care more (not exclusive to monogamy either) about their careers, their hobbies or their kids etc. than dealing with the self crap that comes up around poly relationships. Does that make more sense?

The kind of self work mono people do as a result of a poly partner is often not chosen work either I might add. At least not initially.

LOL self crap!

Okay, I gotcha. Because I know before last year when I chose to embrace poly, most of my "self crap" was centered on all the skills that polys need. Time management, intimacy, communication, sexuality, inhibitions, self-esteem, assertiveness, blablabla. There areas are crucial for a well-rounded human being, no matter what type of relationship they're in. But I was not an anomaly, everyone I knew (monos) struggled with most of the same issues that poly peeps struggle with and sought more self-awareness, in whatever form or path that took for their own way of living. Obviously, polys have unique situations that demand more juggling and ... diplomacy, in a way. But we're all the same bunch of fucked-up human beings trying to heal and find our way in the world.
 
To follow up on my earlier post -- since monogamy is the norm, poly takes a certain ability to break away from norms. If people are willing to examine the way they love, they are more likely to also examine the way they think and react. Also, the ability to manage your jealousy is invaluable in poly, whereas it's more possible to skate by with uncontrolled jealousy in monogamy.

For both of those reasons, I think you're more likely to find poly people who have examined their darker feelings, especially jealousy, and worked on managing them. That causes a false perception that requiring monogamy means you haven't examined yourself and aren't managing your jealousy.

But the way I see it, the enemy is the all-too-common tendency of people not to examine their modes of living and their thought patterns. The enemy is not any particular feeling or mode of loving. So to say that the need for monogamy is driven by unhealthy (to me, unexamined and unmanaged) jealousy is to mistake correlation for causation.
 
AnnabelMore, thank you so much for your thoughtful comments--EXACTLY the type of dialogue I was looking for. It may take me a little bit to digest everything you (and others) have said, process it and come up with a reply that does justice to your words. Add the fact that I'm in a bit of a relational management mode today, and my response will be further delayed. But I absolutely will come back to this, as I'm VERY interested in fleshing it all out in my head. Again, thank you very much.
 
I can't speak about anyone else but the root of my monogamy is my natural inclination to focus all romantic loving energy into one person.
When I think of monogamous relationships, such as the ones I have had, the desire to have that singular focus returned to me had nothing to do with jealousy or insecurity - it was rooted in wanting to have love communicated to me in the same manner as I was communicating it to them. Sharing their heart or body with another simply wasn't a part of that.

The concept of insecurity and jealousy being at the base of monogamy totally makes sense to me in a poly atmosphere however. It vilifies the behavior that prevents a non-monogamous partner from achieving the freedom they want. Inversely, a monogamous partner who vilifies the poly desires of their partner as promiscuous or non-committal also makes sense in a monogamous atmosphere.

Not all people will feel negative about the different approaches to love their partner has. There is no blanket that covers people as a group - this issue is individual based.

The concept of jealousy and insecurity for monogamy has as much validity as the concept of being over sexed and non-committal forming the base of polyamory......Neither are wrong 100% of the time but both can be very right.
 
I'm going to play devil's advocate. For no reason other than I can.

I have been in a mono relationship for ten years. We are extremely happy and healthy in our relationship. We embark on polyamory for no other reason than to give it a try and shake things up a bit.

Ten years and we can actually still conceive a future of monogomy because we love each other that much.

My point is this though: we were not always so great. We have surpassed many obstacles. We met as teenagers and thus became adults together. We tackled every problem thrown at us (jealousy included) and with EXTREME dedication and hard work, got through it all.

Now, if we chose polyamory five years ago when we faced those problems, it could be conceived that we actually put in less effort to our relationship and took the easy way out (found someone else who could satisfy us). This could actually be unhealthy.

Instead, we took a look at what we needed from eachother. And we have spent the last ten years perfecting that. We love eachother that much.

So, all I am saying (and this post may in fact not be pertinent at all) is that at least in our case, polyamory would have been more unhealthy than monogomy had we chosen to do so back then.

I really hope this makes sense. Cause it is late and I might be rambling.

(also, not sure if it matters, but we are both atheists so we have no religious binds)
 
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It's been a while since I've visited this topic. While I do have more to say, I haven't the time to give it the attention it needs. I do feel that some of my perspective does have merit, and I would like to continue the discussion, but since I can't right now, I'll cede my point as being in error. If I come to a point where I can give the topic the attention it deserves, I'll re-engage the discussion. Thank you to everyone who posted--you've all given me much to think about.
 
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