Mom, Where are we going? Crazy dear.

... Airyn is in love with me, and with Chipmunk and can’t let go of either one of us. Choosing one over the other is a losing situation for him. I get that. If he lives with me, and cuts Chipmunk out then he’s bitter, resentful, and angry over that loss. If he lives with Chipmunk (or on his own so he can see her when he wishes too) then he has that same bitter resentful anger over losing me.

I see it as very likely that staying together as things are I will get to a point where the bitterness, and resentment are greater than the love. And when that happens I won’t be just saying I've had enough any more. It will be for real. I was just talking to Airyn about that recently. Telling him that I feel like that’s where things are heading for me.

Numina,

I'm sorry. I hoped for more resolution, a better outcome.

And, yes, it is infinitely easier for strangers on the internet to tell you to pull the ripcord. We don't have to live with the consequences. And we only see what you put before us. Airyn's or Chipmunk's POV would be different, as might be the responses.

But sometimes outsiders see a dynamic a bit clearer than those mired in the dynamic. (Not always of course - we are all only human.) Anneintherain posted her experience about choosing divorce when her partner couldn't or wouldn't. Look at it again. You are at a similar crossroads where you can choose a path to an eventual better outcome, or not.

There are no villains here - just people who want different things, and those things are not compatible. Everyone made mistakes, and everyone contributed to the situation. I understand your sympathy for Airyn. You've loved this man for decades, created a child with him, parent with him.

You cannot do squat all about Airyn's resentment and unhappiness.You can only manage your own thoughts and emotions as best you can. What you can do is consider from your limited options the best one for you and Wolf, and for setting up the best possible co-parenting situation for you and Airyn. It is possible to divorce now, go through that miserable pain (Yes, I've been there although not with children which is an important difference) and come through it with some healthy relationship intact with Airyn. You have no complaints about his fathering and want him to continue being a father to Wolf. You don't want to cut off access. I do think you and he have tried to keep Wolf out of things which I applaud. If you let the rage and resentment and anger build until you feel forced to pull the plug, then you are at much greater risk of utterly destroying any possibility of a healthy relationship (co-parenting at least, maybe more). That would be devastating to all of you.

You do have choices. You do have options beyond just waiting in the same situation until you truly cannot take anymore.

Not making a decision is making a decision. Not choosing is making a choice. He has put you in the position of deciding the hard things over and over again. He, for whatever reasons, is currently incapable of making hard decisions. He is not a bad person but it does make him a bad partner FOR YOU right now. He wants you to decide for him.

So do so. If you feel this is best for you and your child, divorce. Have him move out. Or you move out. You may need to pay alimony if he is not working. Do what you have to do. You can choose to stay. But know that the window of opportunity to salvage a workable relationship with him - someone that will be in your life for the rest of your life because of your child - is closing.

Maybe being on his own will be the impetus he needs to get to figure out his co-dependency, his need to save people, his refusal to face hard decisions. Or not. Maybe being on your own is what you need to work on your own co-dependency. But what you are doing now is not working.

Let him go.
 
Numina,

I have lived in limbo with my husband for 3 years. It isn't easy. The choice has been his. He decided to cross hard boundaries in our relationship. The hard boundaries are sex outside of our relationship without honesty and informing me, health at risk, pursuing his nephew's girlfriend without anyone's knowledge. I do understand living in limbo.

For me detaching did not include either of us leaving the house. What it did include is my insistence of his going to individual counseling to gain clarity. The reason we are still in limbo is that he chooses to ignore trust building agreements. Has lied to the therapist and myself.

Why do I stay? I stay because I love him. I did have a boyfriend and I did rely on him for a lot of support. We broke up a few times and are finally over. Nothing to do with my husband. My husband asked me not to pursue another relationship at this point. A month ago I told him due to his lack of commitment to therapy, I was going to date.

The detachment I was talking about was no need for a fight if you have a calendar and you go through and mark the days you expect him to be spending with Wolf and you. (such as Christmas and holidays). Getting a restraining order on Chipmunk to preclude her from causing the drama she has done while friends are around. This then takes away any choice of her coming to your residence where she has more then anything disrespected your child. She has also disrespected you.

I understand your wanting to save your relationship with Aaryn and I fully support you in doing it. I understand he wants you both, it is just hard when he is involved with a very narcistic person. I can't image someone denying a child a meal, especially the child of a lover.

I hope you work this out. I can tell you taking a bat and whaling the hell out of my bed did wonders for my frustration. I seriously wouldn't even ask questions about there relationship. Set hard boundaries as to time and phone calls and keep them.

Hugs LMBL
 
And NYcindie you can say this now, but I saw a post from you on another blog about a three year ordeal between you and your x-husband before your marriage ended. So I believe it is actually hindsight for you, and maybe what you would attempt for yourself in a situation like this one. But I also see that you know ending things (if that’s what will happen) isn’t quick or easy. You also know that ending things via divorce isn’t quick or easy. We can maybe talk more on that in PM if you like.

I don't know which post you are referring to, but there was no ordeal between my husband and me. My personal ordeal had to do with the actual separation and my very dire financial situation, not how he treated me during our marriage. We had been drifting apart and not having sex for the last three years before he asked for a divorce, but it had been a mutual pulling away (as far as the sex). I was stressed and depressed over other things in my life, and he was trying to deal with my depression. We were still very much friends with each other, still affectionate and kind to each other, and still supportive of each other during the last three years before separating, though we began to have small arguments from time to time (generally, we always discussed issues but did not argue). He withheld from me how unhappy he was, and that is why his wanting to leave me was a total shock to me. He had been struggling to work it out himself internally before he decided he needed to leave our marriage - however, my husband never abused me, and never lied to me! Airyn regularly abuses and takes advantage of you, in blatantly unbelievably callous ways as well as sometimes subtle, insidious ways.

I can tell you that this is not hindsight talking when I say you need to leave Airyn. I would never have tolerated abuse from my husband and he always knew it. While so many women I know have had, somewhere in their history, an abusive relationship, I never had. None of my boyfriends before I got married ever abused me, because I simply do not put up with that shit. Early on in my marriage (first two years), there was an incident, something my husband did, which really pissed me off and made me lose trust in him. When it happened, I told him in no uncertain terms that I would change the lock to our apartment if he ever did that again. I don't even need a locksmith to do it, I've got an extra lockset and can do it myself. I told him never to think he could make a fool of me again. He knew I wasn't kidding and eventually rebuilt the trust I had in him and we had a really great, honest relationship, until almost a decade later when he held back what he was struggling with for a few reasons (not wanting to hurt me, not wanting a third divorce, etc.). We have always been honest with each other. He never cheated on me, never raised a hand to me, never humiliated me in any way, and never expected me to accept selfishness on his part.

I know that walking away would not be easy, but it would be the only thing you can do to move toward a satisfying, happy life. Staying with Airyn and tolerating his absolute BULLSHIT is only going to be more struggle and heartbreak. HE is as much of the problem as Chipmunk is. I am sorry to say that the writing is on the wall, and everyone can see it but you. Save yourself... and your daughter!
 
Last edited:
Also Airyn has not chosen Chipmunk over me in a long time now. What he has done is chosen to not choose between us. He lives with me, and made that choice before finding out that he could not live with Chipmunk. He lives with me not just for Wolf, or because he can't/won't live with Chipmunk. He lives with me to BE with me. To spend time with me. To take care of me in what ways he can considering that he isn't able to let go of Chipmunk.

Not making a decision is making a decision. Not choosing is making a choice. He has put you in the position of deciding the hard things over and over again. He, for whatever reasons, is currently incapable of making hard decisions. He is not a bad person but it does make him a bad partner FOR YOU right now. He wants you to decide for him.

I have already acknowledged this one.

So do so. If you feel this is best for you and your child, divorce. Have him move out. Or you move out. You may need to pay alimony if he is not working. Do what you have to do. You can choose to stay. But know that the window of opportunity to salvage a workable relationship with him - someone that will be in your life for the rest of your life because of your child - is closing.

Maybe being on his own will be the impetus he needs to get to figure out his co-dependency, his need to save people, his refusal to face hard decisions. Or not. Maybe being on your own is what you need to work on your own co-dependency. But what you are doing now is not working.

Let him go.

Call it co-dependency if you wish, but that is not the whole view. It’s the co-dependency built on years and years of living together, relying on each other. Which is more like interdependence. Loving someone, living with someone, having a child with them builds a certain amount of dependency between those two people.

Detaching might be for the best, but I can not do that on my own, I need him to decided to go. We (I) have tried to just be friends/roommates. That didn’t work. We both love each other too much despite all this animosity. I’ve asked myself, and I’ve asked Airyn many many times over the last 5 or 6 months, “why am I still trying, why can’t I just end things with him and move on?” My answer is the same as his. Because of LOVE. Doesn’t matter that Love isn’t enough to keep us from tearing each other apart. It doesn’t matter that being in love with Airyn is hurting me because of his relationship to Chipmunk. I still feel all that love that he and I have build over the 2 decades we have been together.

Airyn has been a non-working stay at home father for at least 10 years. Kicking him out is not an option.
1 - my income is not such that I could afford two residence.
2 - I’m not the kind of person who would drop him off at a homeless shelter.

For Airyn to move out he has to agree to move in with a friend or family member. He can’t live with Chipmunk for various reasons so that isn’t an option for him. His closest family is 7 hour drive away, and would keep him from seeing Wolf as often as he wants to be able to do.

Another point: Airyn and I have had rough patches when we were first getting together, both before and after we began cohabitation. We worked it out, and became stronger as a couple for having done so. There were times of separation then as well, and likely will again.

I got tired after reading the latest response, and have not actually finished catching things up. So you guys are actually in the dark on current events/conversations. I'll probably just move on to what it looks like will happen now.
 
What HAS happened? Airyn got a job a few weeks ago, and expects his first paycheck soon. Over the last three weeks there has been a LOT of talk, discussion about him moving out. I brought it up.

The conversations about Airyn moving out?
I told Airyn that I feel he needs to move out so he can have his relationship with Chipmunk on his own terms, and not be restricted by my terms, conditions, ect. Veto power was NEVER actually GIVEN to me. All over these forum (when I’m looking for advice) I have read that vetoing a relationship a year later is bad business.

*following quotes not in any real order*
I'm going to answer the title.

I don't see how this can work. If a problem exists in a relationship-then THAT problem in THAT relationship needs addressed.

When my DH and I were having issues-WE separated, he got his own apartment and we reverted back to dating each other with specified times and availability. We did counseling, we worked on OUR issues.
But taking a break from my relationship with GG because DH and I were having issues? No.

I think it is an unreasonable thing to ask him take a step back from someone according to you that he is in love with. It's to late to pump the breaks at this point in my opinion. You were fine with them getting to this point in their relationship but now that they're there it's too much for you? So now you want two people to put their feelings on hold because you're struggling? And from what you've written it seems like you still get treated like the primary relationship if they're only together a couple of times a week.
I do think that a break from relationships can be healthy. However, I think the relationship with the problem is the one that needs a break.

Which one of these concepts makes more sense:

"This kind of sucks, I am going to stop doing it for a while"
"This kind of sucks, I am going to stop doing other things that I enjoy"

There is no way that his "pausing" his relationship * * * will do anything but breed seething resentment for you. I hope that you decide to drop that thought process entirely and get on with dealing with your own shit.

Honestly I think you and your husband need to take a break. Almost sounds like you want to punish him because you are insecure and miserable.

I am not going to rehash what others have said better than I can.

My husband and I are at a crossroads ourselves . He like you wants to work it out. Me I am tired of dealing with it. I have spoken my wants needs and boundaries until I am blue in the face. He has never respected that and has trampled over agreements over and over. He denies doing so. Lucky for him he hasn't made the request that I take a break from my bf. My bf is the one good thing I have to look forward to. He brings me peace and is my rock. If my husband made the demand you're thinking of making my husband would be gone. I am not going to throw away 17months of happiness for someone who is a source of stress.


So yeah Airyn has been in the position these above quotes say he should walk away from me for. But he hasn’t. I would guess he’s built up resentment, of his own over this. And I’ve seen other posts (I just don’t feel like searching them out and quoting them here) about the unreasonable requests being to blame versus the person side stepping over the “unreasonable request to get/have what they want/need.

My side is a little bit more than patience, or just “understanding” It’s me recognizing that I’m making things worse over all. Is that co-dependency? I have done some research here, and I have always felt that when people talk about co-dependency they are referring to a person who feels they can’t live/survive without another person. Either the person they are currently with or the new person they attach themselves to as soon as they are no longer in a relationship. (that of course is not the only part of codependency, it’s just what I see people pointing at most often)

I used to not be comfortable at home alone, or even just myself and Wolf. I have a decent understanding of what that meant for me during those times where I was dealing with/working through that issue. I no longer have overwhelming “I HATE BEING HOME ALONE” moments. I do still get the occasional, “I have to get out now, do something anything out of this empty home”. When that occurs I got for a walk, or run errands, I find something productive to do. I have found that these moments tend to occur when I am dealing with stress or anxiety of some sort. I have a stressful job, and work schedule, and things in my current relationship with Airyn are stressful. So I get that “Gotta get out now” here and there, but not like I did ten years ago.
 
Back to the topic of Airyn moving out.

Originally I suggested that Airyn move out because I see he’s not actually done with his relationship with Chipmunk. I suggested that he move in with her, and let it play out see where things go for him. This is how I found out that he can not live with Chipmunk, and more of WHY he can’t. Some of it is her personality, some her way of living, some his need for independence/security, and on and on.

I was upfront with him, that I don’t like the idea of him moving in with Chipmunk, or him moving out at all. That we did agree to always live together no matter what till Wolf becomes an adult (or as long as she lives at home). I also reminded him the many, many times that I have attempted with words and actions to “kick” him out, or give him the impetuous he needs to just go to get away from me.

He has several moving out things to work out.

1 - Wolf

So many problems that can cause. He knows what things built resentment, and animosity between him and his mother, he knows what has happened in his life with his mom that he has not forgot, and is still not happy/accepting of. He doesn’t want to add anything new to Wolf’s issues with him.

He also wants to have daily contact with Wolf, and recognizes how difficult that will be on me. He is recognising that I am likely to not want daily contact with him. He acknowledged that I’m likely to want rules/guidelines for when he can be at my place.

2 - Transportation

New job breeds extra responsibility. Have to be able to get to work to keep the job. So the location he lives will be important, and could cost him extra due to where I live, and where his job is. It’s not a cheap area of town.

3 - Cost

Can he afford to live on his own? What things will he be without, what things will he be able to take with him?

4 - Risk

Its a risk. How likely is this to further damage his relationship with Wolf?

Will I wait for him, resent him? Some things he’s said, “I don’t want to lose you because i moved out.” “My moving out is not us getting a divorce never to be together again. There is a lot more that would have to happen for that. That is not the point of my moving out.”

lol, somehow his moving out has become his idea versus my idea. >.>

Other conversations happening.
I am determined to move after this school year. I have talked and talked for 5+ years about moving closer to some of my family. Now I’m determined to actually do it. I told Airyn that I’m moving because I have wanted to for years, and because I want to get away from his relationship with Chipmunk. I am moving with or without him.

How did Airyn take that? Not well. His initial response was that I’m telling him I’m move thousands of miles away and taking his daughter where he won’t see her very often.

I explained that how often Wolf sees either of us is up to her. That she’ll likely spend school times with one, and summer/holiday times with the other. I also pointed out that she may chose to switch whom she lives with during school times every other year. Wolf is old enough to think for herself and make that kind of decision. That ended that conversation. He can’t point his finger at me as “taking Wolf from him”.

Overall there are still emotionally charged conversations happening, but there is less over the top anger on my part. This makes for a more productive conversation over all.

At this point I want Airyn to really think about his own options, and think about what his goals are. What does he hope to accomplish with moving out. Will he resurrect things with Chipmunk? Whom he has not seen/spoken (outside of one sent email) to in almost three weeks now. I want to know if he sees that is moving out is a place where we can be friends and co-parents, and that I won’t be interested in dating him while he’s dating Chipmunk.

When will he move? Unknown he has to have more than one paycheck to move out, and we are still talking about it. He is still deciding what this will, or might mean for him.
 
Well, I think I can safely say we here are all rooting for you to have an amicable and satisfying solution, and for you to be happy and feeling good about where your life is.

There is still stress in my life, however I’m in a much healthier place then I was just a few months ago.
 
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56095

I don’t feel up to responding directly to the thread in question, but felt I wanted to share a story of mine.


First: I have readily admitted to having a serious temper (anger management issues in the past that still occasionally pop up now and then). So basically I have a temper, and while I normally make an effort to keep it under control, I’m not always successful. Yes when my temper is uncontrolled I do see how I act as abusive to whom ever has incurred my wrath (justified or not). That being said I do normally keep control. Keeping control of myself is very important to me. I grew up in an environment where I had little to NO control of myself in ways that are not normal or healthy.

So here a story about anger, arguing, and how some people (ME) need an outlet like an argument.

Something happened and I’m not going to share the details. I talk to Airyn while he’s working, he has no idea what prompted the situation that upset me.

It’s Sunday I meet Airyn on his way home, I have been out walking most of the day (one of the ways I expend my anger is exercise). We get home, and I can’t sit still but still I’m angry over this. It feels from my position as if I am being lied to. (the issue had to do with Chipmunk, something she said/did) Airyn believes that Chipmunk is upset that he hasn’t spoken to her since since Thursday. That she is doing/saying things right now to be mean, to find something to say that will hurt him, and will get him to talk to her.

I am pacing, and trying to argue with Airyn, but he’s not responding, he’s paying attention to something else. I sit down and tell Airyn that I can’t argue with him while he’s doing X, and ask him to stop doing X and pay attention. Airyn tells me that as soon as he realized I was angry he decided NOT to argue. I told him that wasn’t fair (or maybe I said that’s not nice I don’t remember), that was mean that I need to argue, I’m angry. (it was silly, not aggressive, or angry) We smile at each other, and Airyn moves to the bed, where we can actually sit beside each other. Again I attempt to say what I want/need to say. Again Airyn offers no response. Again I point that out and tell him that he’s not arguing with me. Again I just get his smile. I sit there for a while, tell him I need a shower cause I’ve been walking all afternoon. But I don’t get up, and after say 5 or 10 mins I look Airyn in the face and tell him that I’m still angry, and that this isn’t working for me.

Finally I get to argue it out with him, but it’s obvious his heart isn’t in it. That’s fine, it kept the whole thing light hearted. One of his responses had me smiling and calling him an ass, then playfully poping him with one of the pillows. Things went that way for a while, and when I felt better I got up to actually take my shower. Gave Airyn a hug, and thanked him for arguing with me. I also told him that I realize it wasn’t easy for him to do, and that I appreciated that he did it for ME anyway.

Wolf heard parts of it and later told me she was confused, because we were arguing, laughing, and pillow fighting. I told her that I was angry, and Airyn didn’t want to argue. That I asked him to argue with me because I was angry, but that he wasn’t angry so that made it easy to keep things light, and add some playfulness to something that is often more aggressive. Something that I needed in that moment, that Airyn didn’t need.

Airyn knows me, he knew that his responses were off the wall, silly, ect. But he participated in that way so that I could feel like I was getting the argument I wanted/needed and he could remain calm, and not get angry himself.

Those are the kinds of arguments I want not the ones that become abusive. The problem that I see is when one person (myself) gets angry the other person (Airyn) doesn’t always know what to do/say. Or sometimes feels defensive about the topic for one reason or another (like feeling guilty). So even if I’m not using angry, mean, abusive language from the beginning. Even when my goal is just to get my anger out, the other person feels Attacked, and responds in kind. By attacking.

Before Chipmunk arguments between Airyn and I went more like the above. Where we argue, but laugh and giggle at the same time. With Chipmunk’s involvement we have lost our ability to communicate what we need from the other person. This made our arguments since her arrival big deal issues, when they could have been minor, no big deal at all.

I could have come out and said to Airyn, “Hey I’m really angry right now, and NEED to argue, will you do that for me?” of course Airyn could also have remembered that’s how things were, and chosen not to take offense, not to feel attacked. But neither of these things happened while Chipmunk was so close (proximity on several levels/layers). Now that there is some little distance, and that distance has (very recently) begun growing (some of) these things are coming back to the front for Airyn and I.
 
That we did agree to always live together no matter what till Wolf becomes an adult (or as long as she lives at home).

Have you considered that having two, or even one, unhappy parent in the home may not be best for your child?

I also think that it probably isn't in the best interests of your child to move her away from her father. Her needs should come before yours or his. I think you are looking for ways to make him choose. I'm actually going to stop reading this thread altogether because I just find it seriously upsetting when adults behave in this way. Like I literally have a lump in my throat.
 
London:

I’ll attempt to clear up what is either a misunderstanding, a mis communication, an assumption, or just completely unclear all together.

First:
Have you considered that having two, or even one, unhappy parent in the home may not be best for your child?

Airyn’s decision to get his own place/move out will be made despite our YOUTHFUL agreement(s) to live together. That is not truly being taken into consideration. It is a fact however that Airyn has used this agreement in arguments where/when I have attempted to kick him out. If you have read my recent post on Airyn moving out you will see that this is where things are headed. At this moment Airyn getting his own place is the decision Airyn has made. What have you read that makes you think Airyn and I will live together in such a way that we are unhappy at home?

Which brings me to another point.

There are many, MANY configuration where two people (adults) can live together despite their differences. (One example). Some configurations require or expect a large amount of interactions between the two, while others expect a lot less or even no interactions. What Airyn and I decide will be what we see as our BEST option for US. Just because I do not talk about Wolf’s views, or concerns, desires when it comes to this does not mean that she has not been taken into consideration.

WOLF has a voice of her own. She has a place in deciding to move, or not move. She has a place in deciding where she will live, and how she will spend her time should Airyn and I split, temporarily, or for good. She is already being included, and her opinions, concerns, and stated wants/desires are being considered. Wolf is all for moving out of state, She was all for it before Chipmunk, and is even more interested as she has gotten to know my family better, and has become dissatisfied with certain things relating to Chipmunk.


Moving out of state is a decision that has been discussed and put off for various reason over the course of several years (at least 5). This is not a new sudden “time to move” thing. And is not something that is happening right now. It is something that is in the planning stages with the expectation of moving next year.
Also Airyn has been on board with move from the very first time we discussed it, and is still on board today. As a matter of fact Airyn has taken many of the first steps in helping this proposed move happen. On a related note: a few months ago Airyn and I got an offer to move out of the country, Airyn was very very interested in this possibility. He was actively seeking to understand how to make this move a reality, and this is still a possibility. How difficult would it be for Airyn to hold on to a relationship with Chipmunk (who gets unreasonably upset after 7 days time not seeing Airyn, or 2-3 days not hearing from him-with or without being informed of Airyn lack of availability) if we decide to move out of the country?

I think you are looking for ways to make him choose.

Airyn has so far been unwilling to make a choice. His choice (as I have stated before) is to NOT choose. His decision does not prevent me from making my own decision. I’m not willing to do/participate in certain things. If a decision on Airyn’s part requires, or expects me to participate in something I am not ok with, or not comfortable with I am quite capable of deciding to remove myself from the equation.
Yes this decision does take Airyn’s choice to have both myself and Chipmunk as SO’s in his life away from him on my side of that equation. That does not make my decision wrong. It makes my decision my own. Making a decision that expects more from someone than they have stated they are willing to do/give is a risk. Airyn is taking that risk in what is for me an extreme way.

There are several motives for moving.
1 - To live closer to my own family Who gets to say that it’s in Wolf’s best interest to not have the opportunity to know her mother’s family?

2 - Opportunity. There are better opportunities for all three of us in the cities/neighborhoods Airyn and I are looking at moving to. Education for Wolf, Job opportunities for Airyn, and I. Better housing options, plus more opportunity to explore our various hobbies without large amounts of travel being involved. An all around better/healthier environment that includes certain other opportunities I’ve not talked about.

3 - the obvious one for me to get away from Airyn’s relationship with Chipmunk.
3a. To protect myself, and Wolf for the potential harmful contact that Chipmunk appears to be capable of. A restraining order is only a piece of paper it is not actual protection if the person chooses to ignore it, and do harm any way. I have been considering a restraining order for several months (4ish). And I know that if the person you are attempting to restrain chooses to ignore the order the only thing you can go is call for help. It is an illusion of protection nothing more.
 
However:

Yes this decision does take Airyn’s choice to have both myself and Chipmunk as SO’s in his life away from him on my side of that equation.

This is actually not entirely accurate. Airyn could still continue to pursue both relationships in tandem. One as a LDR, and one local.
I had a boss a few years back who’s wife and three children lived several thousand miles away. They only saw each other, on weekends, holidays, vacations, should their various schedules permit. That setup worked well for my Boss and his Wife. Perhaps that would work for Airyn as well. It would not be exactly what he wants, but then we can’t all have exactly what we want can we?

I also think that it probably isn't in the best interests of your child to move her away from her father.

This is laughable to me. At what point have I stated that I am moving Wolf away from her father? For all anyone here knows Wolf will be living with her father full time. Or she may choose to spend school times with one parent, and vacation/summers with another. Or she may choose to be home schooled again so she can more easily switch between living with one parent or the other as she see fit.

Wolf is not a child so much any more. While she is also not an adult she is intelligent, and very much capable of making her own decisions, mistakes, ect. Not all kids/children her age are at that mental level, but she is. When presented with something in a calm manner she is more than willing to take it in, think about it, and discuss it later to come to a conclusion of her own.

Does this clear things up at all for anyone?
Does it leave more questions than answers?
Is it upsetting to you personally?

Feel free to ask questions. If you choose to write a response in a way that can be taken in a negative tone then it’s probably best to make a PM versus a post to my blog. I’m willing to read and consider the opinions, and experiences of other people, but i do not view others experience, and opinions as superior to my own, nor do I put a (normally) whole lot of stock into the opinions of strangers. This does not mean that I don’t ever get my feeling hurt, by the opinion of a stranger. It means (for me) that if/when an opinion has such a negative effect it ends up holding less weight in my thought process (once I’ve processed what was said and how I feel about it).

The opinions and advice offered by someone who knows me, my family, and has had a better view of the situation holds much more weight in the end.

Has anyone noticed that as I have written more in these few weeks I’m less angry, less venting then I was when I first came to writing in this blog or even just a few months ago?

Perhaps it’s just me, but I feel that things are changing. Some changes will be good, some may not be so good. I however am willing to make the best of what comes next, and choose where i will go, and what i will do via conversations within my family. And yes that includes Wolf, and Airyn.

What ever else Airyn and I are to each other we are still the others closest friend. Perhaps his moving out will allow us to heal and be able to live together again as more then just roommates, perhaps not. I'm no entirely stuck expecting any particular conclusion. Sure I have a preference, but preferences can and do change.
 
At what point have I stated that I am moving Wolf away from her father?


I am determined to move after this school year. I have talked and talked for 5+ years about moving closer to some of my family. Now I’m determined to actually do it. I told Airyn that I’m moving because I have wanted to for years, and because I want to get away from his relationship with Chipmunk. I am moving with or without him.

How did Airyn take that? Not well. His initial response was that I’m telling him I’m move thousands of miles away and taking his daughter where he won’t see her very often.

I explained that how often Wolf sees either of us is up to her. That she’ll likely spend school times with one, and summer/holiday times with the other. I also pointed out that she may chose to switch whom she lives with during school times every other year. Wolf is old enough to think for herself and make that kind of decision. That ended that conversation. He can’t point his finger at me as “taking Wolf from him”.

I am only answering this here like this because you asked as well as sent me a pm directing me to respond to this here. This is where you said that you will be taking the child away. Yes, you state that she will have to decide what she wants to do but it is the state of your relationship that is forcing this choice.

The last thing I'll say is what I would do if I was in this situation which is to acknowledge that a) my husband and I are incompatible b) that our incompatibility is making us both unhappy and very much more than likely impacting on our kid and thus it is unfair for us to continue it. I get that financially, you might not be able to move away from each other, but I cannot see you guys ending up the amicable exes nicely sharing a home whilst being able to live your own lives without interference from one another. Again, if I was in that situation, I would make it a priority to have our own space as quickly as possible. From there, who knows? We might be able to reconnect, but the first priority is to end the madness, for your kids sake and I cannot see you acheiving that without emotional and/or physical distance. Good luck.
 
So hard when the other person in your life is not making decisions. I have that issue in my relationship with my husband. I told him it was a very bdsm dynamic. He then is in total control, by not making a decision. It forces me to make decisions in my life and he gets to blame me and be responsible for his own life. I get to be labeled controlling. I am furious with that. I am not the bad guy for choosing to be responsible for running our life and making my child safe.

I think your plan of going through with your life plans and living life is the most healthly decision of all. I have a fourteen year old dd, she is fully aware of her Dad's life choices. She has told him her feelings about this and told him that they aren't healthly for her. She has let him know he is choosing to make her home an unhealthly place for her. She picks up on his choices and mine. She told me that my last partner was a problem for her. She let me know that she felt I distanced from her. The difference is I listened and acted in a respectful manner. I also apologized and then worked that out with my long term boyfriend, so it did work better for her.

My husband and I live in the same house but are separated, by my choice. He is also my best friend. It is hard to say that but he continues to be. He finally had a wake up call recently when his individual counselor told him that there is no point in counseling as he makes agreements and then chooses without disclosing not to follow these simple agreements. That it is a total waste of money to keep doing the same thing over and over again.

I know this is a sad time for you, and I fully applaud you for moving forward with long term plans. I fully applaud you for showing Wolfe that you are a strong woman and despite the problems in your life your moving forward with it. I agree that Wolfe knows her mind and as long as you honor her wishes but still parent, this is a healthier path, then waiting in limbo for Aaryn.

By caring for your self first you are caring for Wolfe best!!!!
 
I think your plan of going through with your life plans and living life is the most healthly decision of all. I have a fourteen year old dd, she is fully aware of her Dad's life choices.
. . .
He is also my best friend. It is hard to say that but he continues to be.

Ahhh see you understand, and also have a child in the right age group as Wolf.

By caring for your self first you are caring for Wolfe best!!!!
Wolf and I have talked a lot about the things that are going on. What she sees, hears, and understands. What she doesn’t fully understand (usually from lack of info) she asks about. And this statement she gets 100%.

Twice Wolf has told me that if I have to get out sooner then her school schedule allows for then I should do so. Not just in the particular instance of moving out of state. She has her own frustrations with her father, and loves him very much. She works at spending quality time with him whenever they can make it happen. She was very displeased by several events that affected her, and her relationship to her father. It took a good bit of time and notes, discussions, arguments with Airyn for him to realize what was happening. Over all Airyn loves his child very much, it was his blindness in NRE with Chipmunk that has caused issues and stress in his relationships.

I know this is a sad time for you, and I fully applaud you for moving forward with long term plans. I fully applaud you for showing Wolfe that you are a strong woman and despite the problems in your life your moving forward with it. I agree that Wolfe knows her mind and as long as you honor her wishes but still parent, this is a healthier path, then waiting in limbo for Aaryn.

Wolf knows that getting out of this situation, and into a place where we have more family will be a better place overall. She also understands that her father can make his own decisions. On my end I have to do what is right for me, and Wolf. Airyn sees that this choice is right for all of us, to move. His hang up is Chipmunk.

Many times Airyn has talked about how unlikely it is that any relationship between him and Chipmunk will last due to their incompatibility. As far as the compatibility between Airyn and I goes, that is a partial question mark. There has been an increase in distance between us, we were once very very compatible, and probably still are. There was just a pause that has changed the landscape between us. So we now have to discover if the changes are more than we can work through, or are just a rather bumpy road we can learn to travel past together. Airyn will always be my closest friend. I have offered him more then once the opportunity to work out some kind of living arrangement with me. In one instance he dropped the ball completely (NRE? fear? don’t know why doesn’t matter now). In the second he was telling me what I wanted to hear, but was not hearing what I was telling him. His feeling were sincere, but did not fit with my needs then (or now).

Honestly I see Airyn moving out as he’s currently planning to do. Getting the space we need from each other, and talking when we are both ok with doing so. I also see him considering the pros and cons of a life tied to Chipmunk (which he has been doing more in the last month or two). He talked last night about looking for closure. He’s not saying that he’s ending things out right, just that he wants/needs closure on certain things that have happened. And due to circumstance he doesn’t currently have a place that he can feel in control of his environment and the flow of conversation to air grievances between him and Chipmunk (and the two of us though he didn’t say that).

This is where you said that you will be taking the child away. Yes, you state that she will have to decide what she wants to do but it is the state of your relationship that is forcing this choice.

The state of my relationship with Airyn will be forcing this choice no matter where I live (once Airyn and I are no longer living together). Never once have I said that I was TAKING Wolf with me. I have either chosen not to say anything when accused of this, or have pointed out that where Wolf lives is not up to me, and that if Airyn wants more time with Wolf he will have to show her that, and talk with her, not me.

Again - If her father and I are not living in the same home she has to decide where she will stay (when, how long, ect.). In one set of circumstance (same city two homes) that decision can be for as little as a single day, and as much as several months. (She will soon be seeing how that works, and how she feels about it in the moment) In the event of moving to another state her decision will by necessity need to be for at least a week (more likely 2-3 weeks) at a time depending on cost of travel, and income between her father and I. This is something she may never have to deal with, but is already thinking about.

One more time for clarities sake. Airyn and I splitting up PHYSICALLY living in two different location even within the same city will put Wolf in the position of having to decide which home she stays at. She may find that she ENJOYS having more space, and a second home, or she may HATE it. Either way she will let us BOTH know her thoughts and feelings (probably separately at first). We will all talk about it as a family, and make our decision from there. (I know my child and I fully expect that she will actively work towards Airyn and I living together.)

My decision to move is made, and approved of by Wolf, and Airyn. The only thing uncertain about it is the actual move date, the actual home we will move to and if Airyn plans to be a part of the move. Right now his answer is that we are moving as a family all three of us. So the eventuality of Wolf deciding how she wants to split her time over a larger distance than a single city does not look like it will come about. However, she is thinking about the possibility in the event this occurs.

Over the next several months, including Airyn moving out there will be talks and consideration to the type of home structure we will be looking for once we move. How many rooms we will be looking for, are we looking for a place that is set up as a single family home or a place set up more like two apartments? That is the current question, and isn’t something that can be truthfully answered right now.

There is the possibility that Airyn will move out, and come to me to say that he’s just not that into me, and he’s going to go ahead with his life following a different path. He currently does not believe that will happen for reason I don’t care to share here. But there is that option, and I will only put as much effort into maintaining a relationship with Airyn as he is willing to put in himself. We shall see how things go.

I am only answering this here like this because you asked as well as sent me a pm directing me to respond to this here.
Actually I did not request that you respond here, nor did I request that you respond at all. I sent a PM and stated why I felt a PM versus responding within my blog was best in this instance. The PM was to explain why i have never responded directly to any of your prior post, but did to this one, and to inform you that I did respond since you state you were no longer going to follow my blog. I do not mind in the least that you have decided not to follow my blog that’s your choice. However I felt that your comment warranted a response (which I explained in the PM why i felt that way).
I made at least 2 comments (one privately to you, and one in my blog) about a PM sometimes being the better choice over a post in a blog.

Seems to me that I was right. There is some difference in communication, you don’t understand what I am saying to you, and your words don’t have your intended effect on me. Now that IS an incompatibility you and I could NEVER do Poly together this way. ;)
 
Back
Top