Suggestion for new section of the Forum

Well, NeonKaos has pretty much answered the original question:
The moderators discussed this and we agree that if there were BDSM or furries or what-have-you ASKING for a section of the forum where they could discuss their special issues as pertains to polyamory, that would be a stronger argument than creating a separate section to corral those types of threads just because some people are sick of seeing it come up in situations every so often.

However, we are long overdue for a conference with Olivier (the owner, who doesn't really participate in the discussion threads) and we plan to ask him if he would like to create a sub-forum (no pun intended) for any type of alternative lifestyle + poly, should people of like-mind choose to use that to mingle with each other. This is not something we are empowered to do without explicit permission from him.

Also, we do not expect this to happen before the forum software upgrade, which went into "testing" almost a year ago IIRC, and is supposed to have a section where people can be in more control over their own blogs.
(i.e. It's an idea worth considering but the change can't be made yet, for reasons outside the moderators' control.)

It only remains for me to clarify my stand:

a) If I gave the idea that I'm "sick of seeing it come up in situations every so often", then I apologise. Different strokes for different folks. I may not understand, but I'm not sickened.

b) A problem I do have (and I may be pretty much an exceptional case here) is that because I'm new to this whole topic (as a topic), because I live very much back-water and don't get to Internet often, a LOT of the terminology is confusing (this means that I don't know the hell what people are talking about). Some of the terms have other meanings outside the poly and/or BDSM scene: unicorns, furries, power exchange, primary/secondary... and I've found myself (as I wrote in my first comment on this thread) naively commenting on BDSM relationships without knowing that that was what was being discussed - and perhaps coming across as a total berk.

c) To answer Magdlyn re: my statement, "considering myself (among other definitions) a feminist, I find it hard to imagine a master/slave dynamic as having much to do with love and mutual respect."
You're making the assumption that all Doms are male and all subs are female?

There are female Dommes with male slaves or subs, and gay males and ardent feminist lesbians of both proclivities, Dom or sub, for example. (Google "On Our Backs" magazine.)
I make no such assumption.

1) Please notice those parentheses: "(among other definitions)".

2) Having said that, I would point out that there are many different flavours of feminism, most of which can be divided into 2 main groups:
i) "Feminist" means we want women to be allowed to have the same rights as / act like / earn as much as / belong to the same clubs as / etc. etc.... men.
ii) "Feminist" means we aspire to a new kind of interpersonal relationships without inequalities and malaises rife in standard patriarchal society: powerful/powerless, master/servant, boss/worker, owner/owned, buyer/seller...
I belong to the 2nd group of feminist thinking. The group that would never demonstrate for women's rights in the military, because we'd like to demilitarise the World. The group that believes, for example, that - far from being a feminist icon - Margaret Thatcher (first woman Prime Minister of the UK) was about the most macho, anti-feminist PM in recent history.

3) If you want to play at soldiers / capitalist (Monopoly is a great favourite) / master-slave and it's only a pasttime, that's your business (though personally - and I know that I'm being an extremist and very subjective here - I wish we could find more positive ways of enjoying ourselves). But my gut feeling tells me that the games we play affect our everyday personalities. And I suspect that for some in the BDSM scene, it's more than just a game.
 
ii) "Feminist" means we aspire to a new kind of interpersonal relationships without inequalities and malaises rife in standard patriarchal society: powerful/powerless, master/servant, boss/worker, owner/owned, buyer/seller...

Emotional healing thru an inequal power exchange is quite common. "Good" Masters are interested in their sub's healing and emotional growth. (I personally know several couples who have experienced this, and in fact in my own relationship w my gf, even tho I am not fully her Domme, I am more assertive and sometimes she does just ask me to make decisions for her. Also she has said she feels "safe" when bound by a trusted partner.) Take this article as a case in point. I found it by googling "emotional healing thru bdsm."

Is the BDSM Lifestyle a Healing Experience for Submissives or Dominants Recovering from Trauma?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...sm_lifestyle_a_healing_experience.html?cat=72

The best book I have read on this topic is Radical Ecstasy. (The authors wrote the poly classic, The Ethical Slut.)

Amazon review of Rad Ecstasy
If you're looking for a how-to book of tying up your partner, techniques for using tools, what parts of the body are safe to strike, etc., you'll have to look elsewhere in other books that cover these subjects. If, on the other hand, you want to know why on Earth would anybody want to do this in the first place, you've hit the jackpot in "Radical Ecstasy."

If you think BDSM is all about cruelty, Dossie and Janet will convince you otherwise. They are incredibly articulate about psychological processes that are nearly impossible to describe. Come along with players on their journeys to the darkest, scariest parts of their minds and watch them emerge cleansed, whole, free, and (most importantly of all) LOVED by their play partners. Their role-plays may well be more effective than hypnosis or years of therapy on a shrink's couch. The authors feel their words do not do the experiences justice, but truly they are too modest.

I had the good fortune to meet Dossie and Janet at a Polyamory convention, having already read their classic "The Ethical Slut" which is far-and-away the best and most practical book about the dynamics of Polyamory. They are cool ladies who would be mistaken for ordinary vanilla if you didn't know otherwise. "Radical Ecstasy" is every bit as revelatory as "The Ethical Slut," opening up a whole new world for me.

At one point in reading it, I collapsed in cathartic laughter that made tears stream down my face, when I suddenly realized that I had always been fascinated with bondage games, even as early as age 8. My obsession with "Perils of Pauline" scenes became a source of enormous ridicule from my schoolmates, so embarrasing I never dared breathe a word of it to anyone for more than 30 years. At long last, Dossie and Janet proved that there was nothing wrong with me after all! I was merely trying to act out a logical resolution to the school-bully problem. My first-ever night at a BDSM club saw me tied to a St. Andrew's Cross while wearing the most demure, innocent, Victorian-vintage lace dress imaginable. Eventually, I might finally get to act out a resistance/takedown/rescue scene where I get chased all over the dungeon . . .

THANK YOU, Dossie and Janet, for sharing your amazing love with the world.
 
a) If I gave the idea that I'm "sick of seeing it come up in situations every so often", then I apologise. Different strokes for different folks. I may not understand, but I'm not sickened.

Alright alright GEEZUS -

How about "tired". Is that better than "sick"? "tired of seeing it come up in situations every so often". Ever heard of two little things called metaphor and hyperbole?

For crying out loud.... **I** apologize OK? for IMPLYING or ASSUMING :eek: that you or anyone else was "sickened".

No one can relax around here for a goddamned millisecond....
 
Temper, temper! I think you need a spanking.;)
 
Alright alright GEEZUS -

How about "tired". Is that better than "sick"? "tired of seeing it come up in situations every so often". Ever heard of two little things called metaphor and hyperbole?

For crying out loud.... **I** apologize OK? for IMPLYING or ASSUMING :eek: that you or anyone else was "sickened".

No one can relax around here for a goddamned millisecond....
Hey! Keep your shirt on, OK?

I joked on another thread that I'm seriously considering changing my user name to ResidentPedant. Just a joke, but this is an international site and as a fluent speaker of several languages, I know how subtle nuances can get so easily misinterpreted - even by native speakers of the same language. [I took part in one thread where some senior members tried to give helpful advice and the newbies took it very badly and threatened to leave and never return. Some people's policy might be "don't pamper them: let 'em leave" but in the short time I've been on here I have witnessed a lot of pain, and it'd be nice if those of us with more experience in polyamory - and in talking about our emotions - showed a bit more patience with people who are struggling with it.]

However, that's by-the-bye. I didn't attack you, I wanted to clarify myself (and was willing to apologise to anybody who'd misunderstood my first comment)... and I ended up not doing a very good job. Because I'm NOT sick or tired of "seeing it come up in situations every so often". I personally haven't seen it all that often. I've only been contributing to this site since the 9th of February this year, and only a few days each week at that.

HOWEVER, nycindie made a suggestion that I felt deserved serious consideration and I threw in my tuppence [two cents] worth. I have been slightly affected by the situation, and I can imagine others (who've been on here longer) to have come across it more often. And if some people are bothered by the issue, I vote for the creation of the BDSM section.
 
Get over my lap! :cool:
 
I like that it's not segregated. I probably wouldn't go much in a specific BDSM forum, and I'd miss a bunch of things. I like hearing about different lifestyles and I don't think I should have to go look for them, I much prefer seeing them among the "regular" populace. Otherwise, it kind of gives a "you're freaks, stay away from us" vibe, I feel.

@ MrFarFromRight, I understand why you wouldn't like D/s if you're against any power and any one being hierarchically higher than anyone else, period. I mean, that basically means being against the concept of a president or prime minister, a boss in a company, a manager... I personally don't get it. It's wonderful having other people's input or help. If I'm someone's subordinate, I can just accomplish the needed tasks without having to figure out what tasks are needed. If I'm someone's manager, I can direct everyone to reach the needed goal and keeping my energy for other things that needs to be worked on so I don't have to do all the work.
They're all about cooperation. Just because one person is called the boss and the other the employee doesn't mean one is worth more than the other.

But BDSM is about more than D/s. You also have BD and SM. And these aren't necessarily about power. You could think that being blindfolded is about power, but it could be about not being able to see so you can focus on your other senses and have a more intense experience. As for pain, it leads to endorphines, so it's easy to understand how it's linked to pleasure, I feel. And the Sadist part of a SM pair could very well be the sub of a D/s pair.

I guess I really don't understand your objections to D/s. I mean, we all spend our lives hoping for others to make decisions for us. Decide what we're eating, decide what to buy... there are programs all over the net that you can have tell you to do your chores so you don't have to remember. Is it so hard to imagine someone could want the same things in a sexual context?
 
@ MrFarFromRight, I understand why you wouldn't like D/s if you're against any power and any one being hierarchically higher than anyone else, period. I mean, that basically means being against the concept of a president or prime minister, a boss in a company, a manager... I personally don't get it.
Exactly. What I didn't mention under "among other things" is that I'm an Anarchist. (This word seems to conjure up for most US citizens - those who have even heard of it - a guy dressed in black with a bomb hidden under his cloak. And then there are those [mainly young] people who call themselves Anarchists, believing that it means "Destroy the System: We're against everything! No rules! Everybody can go fuck themselves!") I don't believe in presidents or prime ministers. They tell pretty lies to get people's votes and then they take the country into wars that nobody wants. (GWBush and Tony Blair are today both being lucratively bankrolled by Big Oil - "Thanks for the huge profits, guys!") Etc. etc. etc. And on a work level, I'd much rather work in a cooperative than in a company with a boss or a manager.

I don't really want to take this debate too far. As I said before, different strokes for different folks. It's just that I feel that we've been indoctrinated into either wanting power over others or wanting to run from responsibility. [See Erich Fromm's "The Fear of Freedom"] And this is what real Anarchism is: the refusal to allow anyone power over you but at the same time the refusal to wield power over others. To take full responsibility for your own life.

It'll never catch on.

So in answer to
Emotional healing thru an inequal power exchange is quite common. "Good" Masters are interested in their sub's healing and emotional growth.
I'd say that healing is possible in all kinds of circumstances, but a hierarchical healer/"sick patient" situation often leads more to patching over symptoms than true healing. If a doctor tells me what to do, what medicine to take, instead of talking over my case with me so that we reach a better understanding, I have my doubts. (So I prefer going to holistic healers, "alternative" medicine.)

BTW, Magdlyn, I loved your:
Temper, temper! I think you need a spanking.;)
Had me laughing quite a while.

To get back to the healer/"sick patient" thing: there's a famous writer (highly recommended) called Alice Miller. [By googling that, I've just discovered that she died last year. What a loss to Child Psychology!] She used to be a psychotherapist... until she realised that psychotherapy actually maintains the status quo: it keeps people from healing and spirals into codependency. So she resigned her membership in the Swiss and the International Associations for Psychotherapy.
But BDSM is about more than D/s. You also have BD and SM. And these aren't necessarily about power. You could think that being blindfolded is about power, but it could be about not being able to see so you can focus on your other senses and have a more intense experience.
I'm hardly an expert on BDSM terminology or techniques. But personally I would not consider being blindfolded to constitute bondage. I agree with you 100% about helping to focus on your other senses. I once went to The Tate Gallery (a famous London art museum) when they had an exhibition "Art For The Blind". Because touching, feeling the pieces of art was encouraged, everybody had to wash their hands at the entrance. [One patron insisted that he wouldn't be touching anything, so there was no need for him to wash his hands. When the curator insisted, the patron walked off in a huff.] Although the museum didn't suggest it, my friend and I wanted to get into the whole idea of "Art For The Blind" and took turns closing our eyes and being led to the next piece, feeling without seeing. If I'd had a blindfold, I certainly would have put it on.

This next bit might seem very far-fetched. But I remember that almost every time that my father spanked me, he told me: "Now I'm doing this because I love you." And then there's that Bible verse (Proverbs 13:24): Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. I honestly wonder how many people from religious homes came to equate love with pain.

Finally:
I mean, we all spend our lives hoping for others to make decisions for us.
I know that the vast majority are/were brought up to hope for this. And I'm no exception. But I'm trying to move as far away from that as possible.
 
Discussion on anarchy

Well, you seem consistent in your beliefs. For the record, I mostly dislike people in high place of political power, but I feel humans aren't able to work cooperatively on a big scale, and that these people are a necessary evil.
I also believe that right now my power is to vote for people I agree with. Baring a revolution, that's the most I can do. Therefore, not voting is leaving my destiny in the hands of other people even more. Just adding that in because I've heard of people not voting due to being anarchists. I don't know if you'd consider them "real" anarchists or not (or whether you do vote) but it seems to me if the point is to take power and responsibility, not voting is a bit paradoxical.

About cooperation, I agree with you, but to me, cooperation simply means taking turns in making decisions, which to me means taking turns as leader and follower. Decisions are made in common, but everyone takes turns between suggesting and considering suggestions. To me, there is still power exchanges, simply at a much faster pace.

If a doctor tells me what to do, what medicine to take, instead of talking over my case with me so that we reach a better understanding, I have my doubts. (So I prefer going to holistic healers, "alternative" medicine.)

I totally understand that. I feel a doctor's job is to give patients facts and options, but let the patient make choices. It's especially true for instance with gynecologists. Sadly, I have seen many who just prescribe a pill without going through all available birth control options (not even sharing a booklet or something). Or even going against a patient's will (for instance, not all of them agree to give you a copper IUD if you research things on your own). It annoys me. However, "modern" medicine still works best for me. I don't believe doctors are my superiors, simply people I go to for their knowledge on things not everybody can expect to spend a decade learning. Same thing with a lawyer, for instance.

I'm hardly an expert on BDSM terminology or techniques. But personally I would not consider being blindfolded to constitute bondage. I agree with you 100% about helping to focus on your other senses.

There is a broad range to BDSM. Blindfolding is usually considered to be on the lighter end of the scale. You're "bonded", even if it's your vision that is restrained, not your motion.
Other forms of bondage can come from the same basis, though. For instance, being tied so you can watch but not touch (the opposite of the blindfold). Feeling something because you touch it or because it touches you can create different sensations. Restrains+blindfold can help you focus on sound, etc.
Then it's a matter of scale, people probably all have a different comfort level. I believe though that a lot of people call BDSM what's "too much" for them, while they don't consider what's okay to be BDSM.

I mentioned it for BD (bondage and discipline), but it can be true for SM as well: a lot of people will enjoy light biting of their earlobes or nipples, or being scratched during sex, or grabbed tightly. All of these create small amounts of pain, but can be pleasurable. Some people find that more intensity in pain stop the pleasure, but for some others, the pleasure raises along with the pain.
And again, the examples I mentioned (biting, as light as it may be, scratches, even when they don't leave a mark, and tight grips) are all considered soft SM.

I honestly wonder how many people from religious homes came to equate love with pain.

I'm not from a religious household or even country, so I couldn't tell you. However it is true that some of very religious people are also very kinky, but the opposite is true as well (some very secular and liberal people are very kinky).
However, I believe the Judeo-Christian message isn't of associating love and pain, but more of turning hardships and punishments into good things to yearn for. It probably started as a way to make bearing them easier, but it did have the effect of making people pursue it, and pleasure to become something bad. I think that's a shame.
 
I happen to be involved in BDSM and I would find it helpful if there were a page dedicated to that. I enjoy being able to pop into the spiritual page when I'm looking for poly-spiritual info.

I like being able to pop into the blogs section when I'm looking for info on that.

I'd like being able to pop into the BDSM & Poly section (if it existed) when I was looking for info (or wanting to share info) that pertained to that.

It would make it easier for me to address topics that relate to both the poly and the BDSM topics in my life without feeling so socially awkward. I'm not prone to wanting to get too far into the BDSM discussion in the "general" section because I feel like it's a little "off-topic".
It DOES impact my polydynamic, but it's just a little "off".

Furthermore, it does get a little frustrating to ask a question aimed at other BDSM knowledgable and Poly knowledgable people and have the whole thread derailed into re-explaining what BDSM is.

If there were a BDSM section, I'd HAPPILY create a "dictionary" thread in it like I did in the poly stuff when I found a great "poly dictionary" and kept repeating the same answers all day to newbies....
 
Furthermore, it does get a little frustrating to ask a question aimed at other BDSM knowledgable and Poly knowledgable people and have the whole thread derailed into re-explaining what BDSM is.


This.

Some people do get into poly just because they love their partner, but one is kinky and one is vanilla and the kinky person really needs that aspect. Right now, even tho we are kinky together, my gf needs *more,* so with my blessing, she has a Master as well.
 
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