the story of a secondary

I was crying, I couldn't explain why, he was upset and asking if it was about him.

Stereotype warning:eek::
I'm going to say, this is a guy vs girl thing. Guys usually don't get emotional without knowing why (in the're mind anyway, because grumpy, snippy or argumentative is not "emotional":rolleyes:) and they have a hard time understanding that girls do. Crying due to stress or anything else other than being sad, just freaks them out, it makes no sense to them what so ever. They feel that they need to "fix it", but as nothing makes sense in their mind, they don't know what to do.
 
Davis and I are struggling. :( He continues to be depressed, he has trouble just getting up every day and getting motivated. He's not in a truly dark place... just in a major slump. I keep thinking to myself, maybe I should just end it, maybe this guy will never be the partner I want.

On the one hand he's sensitive, introspective, communicative, open-minded, consistent, supportive. He's utterly devoted to me. On the other hand, I worry that he's not outgoing enough to keep up with the kind of life I like to lead, he's not as dynamic and engaged in the possibilities the world had to offer and in the issues he professes to care about as I'd like to see, he doesn't put the sort of emphasis on self-care and his own well-being and stability that I think would come from a strong internal will... and as deeply as I care about him, he's not exactly moving me to any great heights of sexual revelation or ecstatic positive emotion or joyful self-discovery.

Is all that too much to ask? Is comfort and compatibility and commitment and companionship enough?
Yes, I think "comfort, compatibility, commitment, and companionship" can be enough to sustain a relationship if there is acceptance and understanding, and if you have other relationships (including friendships) that fill you with passion and joy.

Annabel, it seems to me that whenever you start doubting your relationship with Davis, it comes out of your thoughts about his not being able to fulfill certain hopes or expectations you have -- whether those expectations are about his place in your life or how you think he should be handling his depression. Of course, there is no doubt that a person's depression does affect those around him, but you have expressed here a few times that you don't think he does enough to take care of himself and that disappoints you. You've said a few times how he doesn't have as much enthusiasm, emotional strength, or zest for life that you do and you wonder if he's right for you because of that. You say "maybe this guy will never be the partner I want," which could be a little unfair or unrealistic. Maybe there isn't anyone out there who matches the dream you have of the "partner you want."

I grew up with depressed family members, so I know where all that hoping and expecting and wishing will get you -- nowhere. I had to learn after many years of disappointment, wishing they would take better care of themselves, and feeling like I had been forgotten or dismissed, to realize that the people I loved had to find their own way. It may be a huge challenge for you to accept that he is making choices and forging his own path in life, although how he does it may not look like enough to you. How he handles his depression and life is definitely not how you would do it, but that doesn't mean he should be doing it any other way. He may have to struggle for a few more years to come to some sort of equilibrium, and he can't do it for you to come to that place, although he can use his relationship with you as a catalyst.

I think letting go of expectation and reminding yourself to see him for who he is (which can be a constant process), rather than what you hope he will become, would do a lot of good for you both. Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance. I suspect that if you had more of a sense of security about how he fits into your life, as the person he is right now, his depression would not necessarily be a deal-breaker but rather a part of him that you allow room for and know how to navigate around for yourself. After all, all we ever really have is this moment of now. Who knows, maybe at some point you will choose not to continue the relationship, but for now I think you might want to look at how you create turmoil within yourself by worrying about how the future will go and if he will step up to doing or being what you think he should do and be.
 
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I agree that there may well not be any perfect, imaginary "partner I want." The fact that Davis has issues doesn't need to be a deal-breaker if we can both love and support each other. But there's something inside of me that's resisting this relationship and I don't know if it's better to analyze it away and tough it out or listen to it and step back.

Who knows, maybe at some point you will choose not to continue the relationship, but for now I think you might want to look at how you create turmoil within yourself by worrying about how the future will go and if he will step up to doing or being what you think he should do and be.

One thing's for sure, you're right about this... I definitely spend too much time worrying and configuring things in my head when I could just be dealing with the situation at hand. Bleh. I'm going to at least try to not perpetuate these unanswerable questions within myself for a while. Just meditate and be and release this circular thinking to the extent that I can.
 
Well, releasing my circular worries is actually going pretty well. :)

Each time I've seen Davis since I last wrote I've reminded myself not to start trying to analyze him or myself, cutting off any thoughts that start going too far down the path of "can we make this work, are we compatible enough, do I love him enough, what could our future look like?" Over the last few days of actively doing this I've felt more consistently loving towards him and happy to be in his company. We had a wonderful time together the other night, we gave each other full body massages and then made love (happy ending! ;)).

It almost makes me hesitant to post because this is a place for me to reflect and I don't want to start overthinking again, but I think maybe I'm starting to get the hang of not falling back into those patterns. :)

Gia and Eric had their first official post-birth just-them date night on Thursday! Not sure yet how it went, but I assume well.

Gia messaged me while I was at work the other day and we did a brief audio-video chat thing where I could see her and Bee sitting in front of her computer and hear her talking to me and him fussing (she couldn't see or hear me, I just had to type). It's something she normally does with Eric. Unfortunately it turned out she could only do one at a time and he wanted to get back on the line, so we didn't keep it going for long. But it was super cool to be literally given a window into her life when we'd normally be apart. I'm really looking forward to reconnecting with her when I get back from the 5-day work trip I'm embarking on today.

Next Sunday, we have plans to go to a shooting range -- Gia and Eric, me and Davis, and our friends K and Rob (a married couple, K is very close friends with Gia and hearts Bee almost as much as I do). I'm hopeful that Davis, G, and E can all get to know each other a little better. Eric and Davis are both big gun nuts, though Eric only owns one rifle and Davis doesn't currently own any forearms (he used to be in the military and knows a LOT about them).
 
Btw, lest anyone get the wrong idea and think that this is becoming some kind of exploitative setup with problematic shades of unicorn-ness, it wouldn't be just me alone with their baby, helping them get their two nights per month while I get one -- she's going to be reaching out to other friends and family for help. The fact is that I just want to spend as much time with Bee as possible, I miss him when a few days have gone by and I haven't seen him!
Now why should anybody get that idea?! Those of us who follow this thread know that you've fallen in love with Bee, as well. I don't count being ALLOWED to be one-on-one for two evenings a month with somebody that you love (whatever their age, and even considering that this one-on-one includes changing nappies*) as being exploited.

Stop worrying about what other people might think (or about yourself turning into a unicorn) and enjoy your time with Bee! I mean, before the birth, you and Gia were even discussing [at least the concept of] co-parenting.

p.s. Hardly unfair for you to get only one date a month if Eric's getting only two dates a month with his own wife. As you say, your time with each other isn't limited to these "luxury" formal dates.

* In a preparation-for-home-birthing group I attended (as friend and birthing-partner of a single-mum-to-be), one of the moderators once said: "Nobody actually enjoys washing out shitty nappies". My immediate reaction (and this based on previous experience) was: "Well, actually, if you REALLY love the child, even washing their shitty nappies can be an act of Love... and therefore cherished. I HAVE enjoyed doing so."

[Does this qualify me for inclusion in the "kinks of the month" list?:rolleyes::eek:]
 
Yeah, I guess that was pretty silly of me to write. :eek: At the time I was feeling some psychic overload from reading other peoples bad stories, I guess. And yeah... I actually feel fulfilled changing Bee's diapers because he stops fussing and I'm the one who made his little world right again. ^_^
 
I haven't felt much like blogging lately, though I've been getting a kick from giving a lot of advice on other sections of the board.

Not much new to report. Bee has so many expressions he didn't have before. He's soooo alert and alive to his world. He laughs a lot (when he's not fussing). :) :) Davis and I continue to go through variations on our cycle of friction and connection. Just rolling with it. Gia helped me put some behavior of his into perspective in a really helpful way.

When I went out of town recently I ended up sending him a text message saying "I've found a listing online for a fetish sex club night in town tonight that's free for women -- I'm thinking about maybe going just out of curiosity and to observe, not to participate, but I don't want to push any boundaries with you. What do you think?" He wrote back and said that while he wouldn't be comfortable going to such a place himself, he understood the need to show me trust and support and so was fine with me going as long as I told him what I decided. I ended up not going but I was touched that he decided to be cool with it.

I feel like we started our relationship with the premise that we would both compromise -- I would give him space to become comfortable with things without pressuring him and he in turn would in fact work on becoming more comfortable. There's so much room within that for one person or the other to not uphold their end of the bargain, but I'm proud of both of us.
 
Posting this as sort of a follow-up to things I've posted previously about D/s. I think that usually when people are confused by D/s they more often seek to understand why the sub would possibly want that and maybe less frequently wonder what's going through the dom's head. I thought this guide for the novice dom was a neat window into the head of the budding dominant. It's hard and sensitive work, being in charge!
 
Fun fact: Gia has had sex with two people in her entire life -- Eric and me. o_O

I knew she and Eric had started dating very early, and I knew that he's had many more casual encounters with female friends than she has over the years, but I figured she'd hooked up with a person or two in college probably, plus there was their ex, Jen. Nope on the college thing, and it turns out that while she and Jen shared some very intimate moments, they never got to the point of what she would consider sex.

Just kinda boggles my mind! It came up because she's realized she's attracted to a mutual male friend of ours and was thinking of telling him, maybe even eventually doing something about it. Oddly, I wasn't jealous the way I was with Liza. Maybe because Liza, being female, is someone Gia and Eric could share a threesome with, which is the type of sex I used to have with her/them. Whereas I feel like I could hardly begrudge her the chance to explore sex with a man other than her husband when she's never done that before. Or maybe it's just that I know and trust this friend. Dunno, and don't really care, I'm just happy to be able to be chill about it. Chill is how I like to be.
 
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"Be honest, creative and adventurous!" <-- Quote from Davis's mom on the topic of figuring out what we all want and are willing to make for Thanksgiving. I love that woman.
 
Phew... so... ok... I am so flustered right now...

I spent the evening gaming with Davis and our friends Jay and Larry. Fun times, lotta laughing, lotta geekery, some drinking. I posted about Jay a good while back -- he's Davis's best friend and I have a tiny little crush on him. It's the funniest thing. We've known each other a long time, but it's only in the last year that I could say we've genuinely been friends. Davis knows I find him attractive and has no problem with that.

He's an unusual looking guy, but somehow he really does it for me. Tall and very thin, sharp face, big hands and long fingers that I keep noticing... fuuuuuuck. He's very, very hard to get to know. He's closed off unless he knows you very well, he'll barely make eye contact, he has this wall of sarcasm and indifference but when you get to know him you realize that rather than being callous he's paying very close attention to the people around him and is always ready to try to help out in some subtle, understated way.

So, I've noticed just a hint of a flirty dynamic between us before. As we've become more comfortable with each other it's slowly built. With a guy who's usually so closed, just the act of making eye contact often feels intimate. Lately we've been joking, talking more, bonding little by little over a dozen tiny things over the course of the night, like giving Davis some mutually agreed upon piece of advice for how to deal with his crappy roommate, or helping each other learn a new game, or sharing a joke that no one else seems to be getting in quite the same way. It's been a mild thing that I thought was maybe just in my own head, but tonight it was more pronounced.

I keep noticing his damn hands. God, I can only imagine how they'd feel. Plus, tonight he was wearing leather cuffs on both wrists... they didn't appear to be bondage cuffs, no place to attach them to anything, just accessories, but my brain still clicked off for a second when I noticed them, I swear.

I haven't felt crushed out quite like this in years, maybe not since high school, in this unacknowledged and unacknowledgeable way. The "forbidden-ness" of it -- Davis's best friend, who's in a mono relationship with another mutual friend -- means I'm caught between enjoying the vibe and keeping a tight handle on it, and it just ends up being all the more engaging for that.

I'm positive, as of tonight at least, that it can't just be me, Jay has to have noticed it too, this dynamic we've slipped into. Hell, Davis has probably picked up on it too, he's an empathic sort of guy.

If anything ever, EVER even *began* to happen, it would be a disaster. A huge betrayal of Davis on more than one level, which I know neither Jay nor I would ever countenance, not to mention of Jay's gf, who's really a sweet girl. Maybe, *maybe* some day things could become chill enough all around that it might be a possibility. It seems deeply unlikely, and there are other complications, such as the fact that Jay's other best friend, who dates Davis's sister, had never forgiven me for cheating on Davis back in the day.

I just really needed to get all that out.

It's just harmless flirtiness, yeah? And hell, it's so subtle that most people probably wouldn't even pick up on it. Should I enjoy it or quash it? Is it innocent or dangerous? Should I say something to Davis? I think the answer has to be yes on that score -- I have to let him know that I'm feeling this vibe between me and Jay, that I absolutely don't intend to act on it but that it's there. Gotta be honest and circumspect.

And in the meantime... masturbate furiously... er, I mean, cold shower...
 
There was a flirty vibe going on between me, Jay and Thea, and that was the one part of it all that I was ok with, that felt respectful.

Finally I had to leave the room because I was feeling too upset. Jay came out after me and gave me a look that said he understood and we hugged. When we pulled back he looked at me appraisingly and said "Is there something we should be talking about?" I knew he was referring to the flirting happening between me and him and Thea.

I said "There are several excellent reasons why nothing's gonna happen, but... yeah, we can definitely talk." Then I woke up.

A portion of a post from late August about a dream that I found surprising at the time, about Jay and an old female friend. This was before I had even noticed anything flirty happening.

Davis runs a roleplaying game for some of our friends. Both Jay (Davis's bff, who I had a flirty dream about, mentioned in an entry a couple of pages back) and I are in the game. At last night's game Jay and I were sorta jokingly flirting for a minute... in real life this time!... and there was just sorta a lot of eye contact between us, noticeably more than usual. Surprising!!!

And from two weeks later, when I did notice.

So funny that my unconscious mind seemed to predict that I'd end up in this position of noticing a connection and wondering if I should talk about it or ignore it... my unconscious went for "talk" and I'm inclined to agree, if only with Davis... I think I'd combust from embarrassment and attraction if I tried to say something to Jay directly...
 
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And in the meantime... masturbate furiously... er, I mean, cold shower...

:D :D

That's an interesting situation you have there with Jay. Why do you feel you have to tell Davis about it if it's something you wouldn't pursue anyway? Is it just because you appreciate being honest in all situations or do you wish that you could have something with Jay and that's why you'd have to tell Davis? Although if Davis has noticed a vibe between you two, maybe it would a good idea to tell him that yes, there is something there but you would never act on it without everyone being ok with it - which you understand they might never be.
 
Why do you feel you have to tell Davis about it if it's something you wouldn't pursue anyway? Is it just because you appreciate being honest in all situations or do you wish that you could have something with Jay and that's why you'd have to tell Davis? Although if Davis has noticed a vibe between you two, maybe it would a good idea to tell him that yes, there is something there but you would never act on it without everyone being ok with it - which you understand they might never be.

I realize my reaction might seems a little over the top -- surely I don't need to tell Davis about every attraction or little moment of flirtation. And I don't think I've decided for sure that I am actually going to talk to him about it yet.

Definitely the urge comes in part from wondering if he's noticed. I know he would never assume that I'd act on it, but it still might be reassuring for him to hear me say so.

A bigger part of it comes from leftover insecurity on my end from the time I cheated on him with Ziggy. It's not that I think I'd do so again, and that situation was very different -- I loved Z -- but in some ways it started similarly, with a mutual attraction that was growing for me and which I didn't think I could acknowledge. Rather then deal with those feelings I sought to stifle them. I thought I could control it, but then I got drunk and things happened and there was no turning back because my feelings just exploded.

If I had dealt with what was going on for me rather then ignoring it and letting it grow beneath the surface, maybe things would never have gone so far. Or maybe I could have just talked to Davis about the fact that I was still in love with my ex and maybe we could have started down the road of healthy poly long ago. I kind of doubt it but almost anything would have been preferable to the terrible mess that was the year or so after.

So, yeah, I guess realizing I have a secret attraction to someone in the context of my relationship with Davis is kind of a trigger for me. :/
 
Ah, my dear woman, you are a thinker. And a worrier. In that way we are very similar. But perhaps this is one of those times you might want to give your brain a rest and just enjoy the attraction between you and Jay without worrying. As long as you're not dissing Davis in any way (and I am certain you are not), it's all good. It will likely either fizzle out, or morph into just a flirty friendship. Even if he did notice, maybe he just sees it as some fun flirty energy between the two of you and doesn't feel threatened. I would think you'd only need to tell Davis if it seemed like it was heading in a direction where the fantasies might become reality. But not every attraction goes anywhere, so give yourself a break. :)
 
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Cindie that is one way to look at it. Another way to go is how miss pixi and I handle it. We tell each other about every crush we get, whether there is sense or opportunity in pursuing an actual relationship with said crush or not.

We don't have big issues with jealousy though. I like knowing who rings her bell, and vice versa. I feel it brings us closer. But that's just us.
 
If you think Davis 'knows' that you are attracted to Jay, then you may want to acknowledge the attraction. You mentioned Davis is pretty empathetic so he may already get there is a spark between you and Jay. I don't think this is required of you - people handle non-acted upon crushes different ways. But it might be reassuring to you and Davis if you acknowledge the situation and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal or long involved conversation. I'm envisioning something like: [You]: 'Yep, I would totally bang Jay if things were different in my life. [Davis]: Yup, figured you would. [You] Hey, want to watch True Blood now?' [Davis]: Sure, that Sookie is a hottie. [Make out session ensues as True Blood plays in the background].
 
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