Redpepper's journey

Och RP - your struggles make me sad for you. I very much hope that you can find your way to a resolution.

I have been reading your blog for a while now and I too wonder if it might help you to get some professional help for your issues around being abandoned. It seems that they cause you so much grief.

You have spoken sometimes about it being an impossible dream to have somebody be monogamous with you - to have a partner who loves you and nobody else. I wonder why? This isn't an impossible dream - lots of people have that and many of them for prolonged periods of time. Do you feel that it's impossible that anybody could feel that way for you?

It has seemed to me that in your case, maybe your decision to live the life you do is to avoid ever being alone. You surrounded yourself with partners but still wrote regularly about meeting new folks interested in poly for coffee dates and maintained a profile on OKC. You wrote once about being terribly upset because Mono chose to stay over with friends of yours rather than come home with you and how upset you were that even with 4 partners you still sometimes found yourself alone.

These seem like strong responses to being alone and you seem to have made very little progress with fixing them - maybe some outside, professional help would be a good idea?



This - why would your love being with somebody who isn't you while you are away be a problem? Should they sit alone, pine and wait for you to come back? People can love you and you can be incredibly special to them without them being alone whenever you guys aren't together.



And this. I agree with you. I very often see no significant difference between friends and loves. In fact, I don't even limit it to human beings. One of the most powerful connections in my life and strongest friendship was with a dog.

To me, this is a good thing. To you this seems to be a source of sadness.

Why?

Why not talk about friends? I talk about mine loads. I am friends with some amazing people who fill my life with interest, affection and love. They are fascinating, vibrant individuals and I talk about them.

I hope you are able to find some peace soon.

IP
Thanks for your words. It's given me a bit of hope that someone might decide to be monogamous with me if we should chose.

I don't expect others to not do anything without me. I just want to BELIEVE that I am missed, that others will want to be with me, wish I was there and wish they were with me. Not in a pining way but in a "I'm living my life but I will see you later and can't wait!" way. I hear it but unfortunately I have also heard from Mono things that have made that change for me. He has expressed how it makes no difference what I do, where I am and whom I'm with. He says he doesn't miss me and hasn't for a long time. He feels nothing when I'm gone and doesn't wish to be with me any more. He wants me to feel the same about him. I don't. It's left me uncertain about where I stand with everyone in everything they do. Could everyone have felt like that?

Part of this is why one partner might suit me better. The weight of thinking that all my partners felt this way has been, well, weighty. I have really taken his words to heart. It should be fine to just get about my own business and be fine with whatever, but it's shaken me and I am working through it.

I didn't cause Mono to feel that way. He admits it's he who puts far too much emphasis on what he thinks is his responsibility and I wonder if his words are backlash of that, somehow. Still, I'm flailing under their weight and the weight of other things he has said.

My realisation that, even with four partners, I still feel alone somehow, was just one of many indications that I had work to do on myself. I'm doing it. Perhaps I need more help. But really, to me, spending the night camping with my boy and not losing my mind with anxiety is an indication I'm doing better. This morning I am panicked a bit, but talking myself through it and rationalizing with myself. It will come. And yes, if I need help I will seek it out.
 
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Thanks for the book recommendation, wildflower. You are right, I'm finding it hard to accept change but change has already happened in many ways. I am in it, anyway. There are huge changes going on. It's more about managing change so I don't leave everyone and start again. I have a history of that and it's meant I don't stop and deal with issues. I just move on and they move with me. There is only so much I can take, and right now I am not able to let it go without bolting.
 
Hugs.

I too see my friendships as being much the same as my lovers. But, like IP said, they are a HUGELY meaningful part of my life. Especially when the chips are down.
When I am curled up in a ball on the shower floor, fighting the urge to knock myself off (which happens every winter when the brutal cold hits), when I can't remember what it's like to be warm, to feel sun on my face, to walk in the sand, to run in the grass. When I can't remember what it is that makes life worth living-

I run through my happy memories of friends. Some of those friends are an ongoing, daily part of my life.

BUT RP-
Some of them are people like you, people who took the time to send me cookies, took time to meet me while I was on vacation to share a hug, people who opened their home to me so I could lay my head down in a safe and warm place while traveling.

Sometimes, when my world is falling apart, I just think of the pictures you post on facebook and the things you talk about regarding LB. Because those things remind me that in fact, I'm not alone, even when I FEEL alone-and believe me, when the depression hits and I'm struggling against suicidal thoughts-I do feel alone.
I think about dinner, a dinner you planned, so that I could meet your family and friends face to face. I especially think about LB talking about gravity. Does that sound stupid? :)
Let me tell you why.

That little boy of yours, he see's the world through a unique lense. He has perspectives that have never crossed my mind. He's like.... almost 30 years younger than me. :) But, he comes up with possibilities I couldn't figure out were even IMAGINARY options!
That little detail is one of the main reasons I think of you and LB when my world is falling apart. Because-I figure if he could think up these alternative possibilities that never crossed MY mind regarding all of this science and worldly stuff-then it stands to reason that there is a WHOLE LOT going on in the world and within me and my relationships-that I am completely unaware of.

Let me repeat that...

I figure if he could think up these alternative possibilities that never crossed MY mind regarding all of this science and worldly stuff-then it stands to reason that there is a WHOLE LOT going on in the world and within me and my relationships-that I am completely unaware of.

Likewise-I would put money down that if the situation were laid out for him (not saying you should, just go with me for a second);
That what he felt was the explanation, what he felt was the "next step", what he thought was the "lesson" for you in all of this-
would be WHOLLY different than anything you or ANY of us has suggested or even considered.


RP-we can't any of us see the whole picture. Not you, not me, not anyone.

But-if you just take this camping moment to consider your son's perspectives on life and how they could possibly relate to what you need, what you are feeling and struggling with-
I honestly believe you will find that even if none of it makes a lick of sense-it will give you hope.

That kid inspires me from how many 1000's of miles away? I know he inspires you too. Let that inspiration spread out of your "Mommy-mode" and into the rest of you too.
Let LB give you hope that whatever it is you fear, long for, dream of etc-will work itself out in time. Not necessarily in the manner you imagined-but something different and potentially better.
 
I wrote this on Facebook but it seems useful here also.

Why hold on to stuff that just isn't going anywhere or working? Why do that? Why shove situations into a box out of a need or a want not being met? What if there is something being missed because there is so much time and energy being spent on trying to make something be something it isn't? Look at things for what they really are and act as soon as you see them as such. Stop wasting time and move on to something that works and flows naturally!

Letting something flow into your life always comes with a consequence. Something needs to give to allow the banks of the stream to move. There are always options, though. Choosing something that seems clumsy and uncomfortable is sometimes the best option when looking at the bigger picture. It's a matter of understanding foresight: is this option necessary to gain in some other way something closer to what works and will work for others? Will I gain more, help more or harm more? If the answers lie with a flowing path moving toward something stronger and something that make a person say "Yes, fuck yes!" then the course is clear. If there is ambivalence and wavering, then it's not the time to change the flow. It's time to do the hard work needed for foresight.

Sometimes people and situations change it for us and that is the hardest flow change of all. Streams are dammed, ecosystems destroyed, pools of water gather and eventually something must give under the pressure. If someone causes this for another, then it must be understood that there can be no expectation that a damaging result won't occur. It can't be expected that someone else's change of flow will not cause effects more devastating than is first realized.

Please, though, foresight, bigger picture, consideration of others: take it from someone who has lived it, if nothing else, check your moves carefully, as every one of them causes ripples and changes the flow for everyone around you. Your "Whatever, I will do it anyway, because I can and want to," can mean changes that could devastate your future somehow, or create something wonderful. It's all in foresight.
 
LR, LB would say thank you for slowing your life down so that you can look me in the face and listen to me talk about Star Trek, science, Superman, and all the emotional turmoil that is happening for him right now. He is a creative boy who never lets anything stand in the way of figuring it out with positivity and excitement.

I stood and looked at my little boy's body while he showered today at the campground. He is so fucking beautiful I wept inside as I watched him. He is a genius in my eyes. A perfect creation that is so simple and wise.

He would say our family is everything to him and that no one else matters but us. We are all home to him and and each other. Whatever that means, we should take hold of that and not let go. I know that and have been moving forward with him in mind: what he would say. If it were me I would be long gone, creating another life. His wisdom is why I stay, as much as his need for us to be together.
 
He is wise. Be patient with yourself-he's operating from a sincerely solid foundation-you are operating from a self-defense mechanism.
In this case; he's the solid one to follow. ;)

Isn't it amazing how frequently as parents we are actually following and not leading?

I do know what you mean about LB. :) I feel much the same about my SweetPea. Here's a thought for ya! Sweet Pea is THIRTEEN! He starts high school this year! SCARY THOUGHT!!! :)
 
Redpepper, do you REALLY think that "being monogamous" is going to get this monkey off your back? "Relationship broken, add people" applies to monogamous relationships too. If you are broken, you are not going to get to the root of your problems and overcome them by going on OK Cupid and enlisting someone to be your next enabler.

I think you would greatly benefit from getting in touch with your internalized misogyny. I have suspected since way at the beginning that you are threatened by other women whom you perceive as your "equals" and you also view females as your competitors.

I also think your brain is going through some chemical imbalances that combined with everything else, has made it impossible for you to fix yourself for the long-term. You have been trying to use first-aid bandages and splints to symptomatically address your hemmorhage. Everyone can see these things except you. I wish i knew what to tell you to do, but you probably wouldn't do it, just like most of the people who talk to strangers on the internet about their personal problems.
 
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Redpepper, do you REALLY think that "being monogamous" is going to get this monkey off your back? "Relationship broken, add people" applies to monogamous relationships too. If you are broken, you are not going to get to the root of your problems and overcome them by going on OK Cupid and enlisting someone to be your next enabler.

I think you would greatly benefit from getting in touch with your internalized misogyny. I have suspected since way at the beginning that you are threatened by other women whom you perceive as your "equals" and you also view females as your competitors.

I also think your brain is going through some chemical imbalances that combined with everything else, has made it impossible for you to fix yourself for the long-term. You have been trying to use first-aid bandages and splints to symptomatically address your hemmorhage. Everyone can see these things except you. I wish i knew what to tell you to do, but you probably wouldn't do it, just like most of the people who talk to strangers on the internet about their personal problems.
Well, thanks for telling me what everyone thinks. I guess that could be helpful to know. Eventually, I can imagine there will be nothing left to tell me about who I am. For now, I am all ears and taking anything that makes sense out of the stuff that really just doesn't.
 
Redpepper, do you REALLY think that "being monogamous" is going to get this monkey off your back? "Relationship broken, add people" applies to monogamous relationships too. If you are broken, you are not going to get to the root of your problems and overcome them by going on OK Cupid and enlisting someone to be your next enabler.

I think you would greatly benefit from getting in touch with your internalized misogyny. I have suspected since way at the beginning that you are threatened by other women whom you perceive as your "equals" and you also view females as your competitors.

I also think your brain is going through some chemical imbalances that combined with everything else, has made it impossible for you to fix yourself for the long-term. You have been trying to use first-aid bandages and splints to symptomatically address your hemmorhage. Everyone can see these things except you. I wish i knew what to tell you to do, but you probably wouldn't do it, just like most of the people who talk to strangers on the internet about their personal problems.
Well thanks for telling me what everyone thinks. I guess that could be helpful to know. Eventually I can imagine there will be nothing left to tell me about who I am. For now I am all ears and taking anything that makes sense out of a the stuff that really just doesn't.
 
I was reminded today that when people cheat on me, or don't tell the truth, or decide it's easier not to talk to me rather than deal with my emotions, that that is THEIR issue and not mine. Separating it from my worth as a partner is an ongoing process. It makes me face and deal with my issues as a result, but it isn't my fault or issue that started the cycle.

I was reminded that when a partner betrays trust it's incredibly difficult to be objective and near impossible to see everything you ever had with them to not have all been a lie. Untangling my truth among all the pain is all I can do. Working on making myself better by dealing with the core issues is key to figuring out what will work long-term, no matter what type of relationship/s I end up in. I was reminded that it can be done without pushing others away by accepting love and support from the people who care about me, and trusting that I am loved, even if it's not coming to me in the form I want it.

I like the word untangle. I feel that is what I am doing. Dividing the truth from the lies, spreading out the silence, what is known from what isn't known and what subtle messages and signs I have been given of what is going on and where I should go.

Thanks to the person who wrote. It meant a lot to me that you understand something of what my past is through your own experience and had some insight as to what might work better. Every little bit counts and is helpful.
 
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You know what bugs me about poly? When people are struggling and having a hard time they go to find other partners elsewhere to get their needs met and make themselves feel better. If something isn't going right it seems a lot easier to just add another person to the mix rather than sort out what the jist is of the problem. I have noticed that all that does is cause more instability, more uncertainty and eventually makes a person decide to act based on someone else's decision to add someone to their lives rather than on the real issues at hand. I get that sometimes it just takes too long etc etc.... there are obviously some circumstances that are differing, but I have noticed this readily. Poly fail as far as I am concerned. Stuff just doesn't go away... it gets worse and creates changes that aren't necessarily what would of been if there wasn't partners cluttering up the mix....

and yes, I did this too.
 
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Well isn't this rather ironic? One year ago, almost to the day, Mono expressed his love for his female friend, whose name I forget on here. (I'm sure BG will remind me. LOL) I remember being completely blindsided and dragging it out of him, as he wasn't going to say anything. It was my first glimpse of the road ahead. Now a year has passed and I am sitting in her living room, petting her three cats, and drinking her beer by myself while she is away for a couple of months. I am strangely amused and amazed. :) Not only that, I went for tea by myself today and am enjoying my own company more than anyone else's these days. Progression!

Contemplating the future and feeling okay. I'm actually happy today, with a little help from my herbal friend St. John's Wort and because I am a workhorse when it comes to all things RP. I had an hour or so of anxiety and sadness when I knew Mono was with the woman he is seeing and a little more sorting some other stuff out, but that was pretty damn good for me!

(I thought I should post a good moment for a change. ;))
 
You know what bugs me about poly? When people are struggling and having a hard time, they go to find other partners elsewhere to get their needs met and make themselves feel better. If something isn't going right, it seems a lot easier to just add another person to the mix, rather than sort out the gist of the problem. I have noticed that all that does is cause more instability, more uncertainty, and eventually makes a person decide to act based on someone else's decision to add someone to their lives, rather than on the real issues at hand. I get that sometimes it just takes too long, etc., etc. There are obviously some circumstances that are differing, but I have noticed this readily. Poly fail as far as I am concerned. Stuff just doesn't go away, it gets worse and creates changes that aren't necessarily what would've been if there wasn't partners cluttering up the mix.

And yes, I did this too.
This is my complaint with people. It's not just poly. That is the face of serial monogamy, as well. That is precisely why I don't have time for any more relationships, because I try to be all I can be in both of my romantic relationships, not just get what's missing as I string along a series of lovers.
 
Thanks for your words. It's given me a bit of hope that someone might decide to be monogamous with me if we should chose.

Of course they would. You are bright, interested in the world, interesting and clearly lots of fun to be around - enough people who know you have written here for that to be clear. Plus monogamy is by far the norm - it is easier by far to find monogamous partners than poly ones. Just the odds make it more likely - if that is something that you choose.

I hear it but unfortunately I have also heard from Mono things that have made that change for me. He has expressed how it makes no difference what I do, where I am and whom I'm with. He says he doesn't miss me and hasn't for a long time. He feels nothing when I'm gone and doesn't wish to be with me any more.

Is it possible that he sometimes speaks in anger or in fear and doesn't entirely mean those words? It seems to me like he very often says that he loves and cares for you. Even recently, he has been making efforts - wasn't there something about making it easier for you to go biking with him?

You know what bugs me about poly? When people are struggling and having a hard time they go to find other partners elsewhere to get their needs met and make themselves feel better.

This isn't just about romantic relationships. People do it with dogs too - they have one that just isn't quite what they want. They love the dog but the dog isn't perfect. Maybe it isn't physically capable of doing a sport they want to do or it can't cope with walks in busy places or it doesn't like strangers. Rather than find ways to build that relationship and find other things that the dog can do, sometimes people will add another dog to the household - one that can do whatever it is that they want to do.

Probably it happens with children as well.

I don't get it. I shall continue this on my own blog, though rather than take up yours.

I hope today is a good one for you.

IP
 
I'm reminded of six months ago, when I stood at the ocean, contemplating the returning of the light and all the year would bring. I'm halfway through the year now. It's Solstice tomorrow. This time I will stand by the ocean and contemplate again, remembering all that has transpired and all the wishes I have for the second half of the year, welcome the full sun and my full realizations.

Things are coming together in my head fast and furiously right now. It's amazing what time, space and a whole lot of thinking has done. Lots of "me time," lots of sleep, lots of focus on the basics has really helped.

I feel as if I am in full bloom right now, just waiting for the ebb of life to reach its fullest and then I intend to flow. Just a bit more time.
 
Well isn't this rather ironic? One year ago, almost to the day, Mono expressed his love for his female friend, who's name I forget one here. (I'm sure BG will remind me. LOL)

I remember being completely blindsided and dragging it out of him, as he wasn't going to say anything. It was my first glimpse of the road ahead. Now a year has passed, and I am sitting in her living room, petting her three cats, and drinking her beer by myself while she is away for a couple of months. I am strangely amused and amazed. :) Not only that, I went for tea by myself today and am enjoying my own company more than anyone else's these days. Progression!

Contemplating the future and feeling okay. I'm actually happy today, with a little help from my herbal friend St. John's Wort and because I am a work horse when it comes to all things RP. I had an hour or so of anxiety and sadness when I knew Mono was with the woman he is seeing and a little more sorting some other stuff out, but that was pretty damn good for me!

(I thought I should post a good moment for a change.)


June. You know, like the name of the month we're in right now. Which is probably why you picked that name.






tl;dr you could go back in time on this thread and search for my posts (there aren't that many) and it would show what you wrote.
 
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I don't know you, so I feel weird commenting

But hopefully it will be helpful, also in regards to the words IP quoted where you said

I hear it but unfortunately I have also heard from Mono things that have made that change for me.

Sometimes it's important to remember that it takes a balance for poly relationships to feel easy, and that smooth sailing or whatever you picture when you envision your ideal life that includes being poly. Because everything in that quote except for maybe the last line could easily be seen as ideal poly. It's also that last line which almost sounded as if it was your thoughts paraphrasing his words, or what you took his words to mean, and if not IP is right, thoughts shared in an angry moment are not permanent thoughts, they are temporary thoughts and not necessarily the way a person feels the majority of the time. The way a person feels most of the time are the thoughts and feelings that are more permanent, and when you frame the way you feel about your relationships, it might be best to frame it with the more permanent thoughts.

Everyone gets angry, but so long as they deal with it, it's not exactly fair to yourself or your partners to hold that against them or trick yourself into thinking those aren't just fleeting thoughts when he is angry.

But everything else except for that last line, if you think about it, that is what most people with "poly problems" actually strive to obtain. People want to be perfectly fine when the partner is out with others. People look to obtain skills that can allow them to not miss their partner, many poly people wish they could offer their partners the total freedom to love anybody anyway the felt like it, which is very much the same as

He has expressed how it makes no difference what I do, where I am and whom I'm with

It not the most elegant way to put it, but it does seems to be the behavior that most people communicate they desire from their partners. It may be unspoken, many people seem to need their partners to exhibit identical behaviors within your quoted words.

So maybe it would help your situation if you let him know that it is OK to miss you, because it is a balance that makes a polyship sail like a bird flies, and if you forget to think of what is ideal for you and your partners to have balanced relationships, you might find yourself slipping into those polyships that sink for no reason other than nobody recognized that was what they were unconsciously doing.

When partners are all striving to give each other total freedom and be not the slightest bit bothered at all, it isn't always the best thing. Usually there is a little bit of fake it til you make it going on if you really couldn't care less, and if that isn't really even the "ideal" you are striving for, you will end up hurting each other because what you are asking your partners to be, is actually deleterious, especially if achieving what if asked is not what you are happy with.

I don't know you or your situation, but from what I read, that's what I got out of it.
 
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I was back at square one today. One step forward, two back. I guess that's how it goes. It was a day of tears and heartache for things I cannot change and growth I cannot deny myself.

Huge talks with Mono over the last 24 hours. At one point we yelled at each other, but for the most part the yelling doesn't happen any more. Now it's calm, honest unravelling and untangling of words and feelings, gut feelings included.

The gist of it is that I want to have the chance to try a simple life (simple for poly, but not mainstream) of just us three, living in our house, raising LB, with Mono and me as an exclusive couple, and PN finding his own romantic love path, knowing he is still part of us, and close to me.

Mono wants to flirt and date outside of that. He never wants to be with just me and never wants to be bound to traditional roles. He never has.

I never said I wanted tradition, but I do want a chance for our relationship to heal and I can only see that happening in monogamy, for a while, at the very least.

The confusing part is that he includes me in his life more than ever. We've never been so close physically, or in terms of activities. I guess part of it is that I am around more. There is a separateness that we have never had before, though. At least on my part. Four years of NRE. Over. But for him, he's the closest he's been to me in years. I remain steadfast in my efforts to just get over all this and work on meyself. Most days I'm rather content with that; today was not one of them.

It occurs to me that I have been left out of a good bit of information where Brad is concerned. Finding out about stuff via other means than the person themselves seems disrespectful to me. It's hurtful. Silence doesn't seem to equal privacy, in the end, around my life. I always find stuff out, somehow. It does not add to my trust at all and I am left feeling very uninspired to make an effort.

My trust of people has been damaged this year. I know I overthink and blow things out of proportion. But what's there to gain if communication is not open? Haven't I been down this road before?! There is no other way than pure vulnerability and openness in poly. Somehow, at what seems to be the brink of losing my circle of support, friendship and love, I feel as if I am being the one who is most vulnerable. At the risk of creating something I don't want to see happen, my life feels much as it did when I lost my community after breaking up with my ex-wife.
 
I had a good talk with PN today. He wants to continue on as we have been doing. He thinks we have a lot of good stuff going for us that he is very happy with. We have our family, friendship, love and caring for one another, and our household. This is extremely valuable to both of us and we shouldn't diminish what it gives to our lives. He is going to try to get his needs met through someone else. So far, this has been difficult to actually accomplish.

As far as he is concerned, there are lots of things we're really not sure of, like where this should all go, or can go, or where he wants it to go, precisely. We can't simply go back to the past, and the future is hard to envision right now.

We both seem to agree that the sprawling, everybody-dates-everybody-else poly thing doesn't suit us and we are tired of being so entwined in it. Both of us are skeptical that anyone is getting their needs met better than if they were monogamous. In some ways, it sure looks like serial monogamy, with the difference that you never really end the other relationships formally. At least that's how it's been in our lives.

Neither of us want to leave, break up our family, or lose what we have right now. It's pretty damn good. And we don't want each other to be alone. We intend to remain a large part of each other's lives.
 
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