I can't believe we're trying this

cheryl

New member
I met someone, fell in love, and separated from my husband, but for economic reasons, and because I didnt want to be away from my daughter, I moved back home. I'm not sleeping with my husband, and havent since I met my boyfriend. A few months ago, I found out my boyfriend was seeing someone else, but he said he still wanted to see me. At first I was very hurt because I assumed he was leaving me and just letting me down gently, ripping the band aid off slowly, instead of quickly, so to speak, but he was very persistant in maintaining the relationship, even when I tried to break it off. So I agreed to keep seeing him.

Once I knew about their relationship, however, the other woman became uncomfortable with it all, and insisted she was "bowing out." However, they continued to see each other and continued to hide it. He said she had asked him not to tell me, but he also admitted he was afraid of losing me if I knew. When I found out the second time, I was hurt, probably more about the lying than anything else, especially since I had already agreed to it. Now the other other woman says she's ok with it, and she says she doesnt want him exclusively because she is very busy. But because of all the lying in the past, I'm not sure whether she's sincere. Maybe she is just waiting for him to fall out of love with me, or for me to get mad and go away.

This man has always wanted a relationship with two women, and has attempted it in the past with other women, but it never worked out because of jealousy. The other big factor in this situation is that he, himself, is extremely jealous and does not want either of us to be with any other man, and even gets angry if we have male friends, if anyone even calls, or comes by, etc. To me, this seems kind of hypocritical, but I dont actually have time for another intimate relationship, anyway. I can barely manage this one. (She's agreed to not see anyone else as well.) It drives me insane, though, to be accused of fooling around on him, when I'm not, and he's the one who wants a second relationship, and has lied about it.

Can this work? My biggest problem is dealing with my own feelings of jealousy when I think of them together, kissing, laughing, in bed, etc. (He claims it never bothers her, but I know from experience, the "new" woman usually doesnt feel as threatened.) My second worry is that if we disagree about anything, or I don't do whatever he asks, he will just go to her. And in some sense, it seems unfair that he always gets to feel loved and secure, knowing that at least one of us is always waiting for him, while we have to wrestle with all the doubt and jealousy. I think at some point he would like to have us all in bed together, he talks about it, but I dont think either I or the other woman have any bisexual inclinations and if I did it, it would be mainly to please him.

Do triads or vees or whatever this is,, ever work, or are they essentially unstable? Should I try it, or am I just not cut out for it?
 
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This man has always wanted a relationship with two women, and has attempted it in the past with other women, but it never worked out because of jealousy. The other big factor in this situation is that he, himself, is extremely jealous and does not want either of us to be with any other man, and even gets angry if we have male friends, if anyone even calls, or comes by, etc. To me, this seems kind of hypocritical, but I dont actually have time for another intimate relationship, anyway. I can barely manage this one. She's agreed to not see anyone else as well.

Can this work? . . . Should I try it, or run for my life?

Run for your life!!! It sounds like having two girlfriends is something he wants as sort of a trophy for this guy. Plus, he wants too much control. He is a hypocrite. Ugh.
 
This man is not up on his poly. I suggest he come here and do some reading. Red flags for me are his OPP ("One Penis Policy"... you can check the tags in the search engine and see what others have written on that) and that he wants you both to be sexual with one another for his own benefit.

First of all IT IS hypocritical to ask that you don't see others. He has no right to control your lives that way. If he can have two partners, you can. Full stop. End of story... If he doesn't like it then I suggest he not have more than one partner himself.

It is completely unreasonable that he ask the two of you to sleep in the same bed with him and have sex. Sure he can fantasize about it all he wants and that is fine, but you have no obligation to do so and it is not mandatory. You can do what is right for you and I suggest you do.

Have you met this woman? Spent time with her? Have you gone about establishing a metamour relationship with her of some kind of respect and understanding? I suggest doing so if you haven't already. Knowing and being at the very least able to approach ones metamour quite often eases any jealousy or stories that go on in ones head. It is so easy to make assumptions about people when you haven't met them and don't know them.

Yes it is possible to have a vee that is successful. I suggest you do some reading here and check out some tags that interest you. There are many accounts of peoples stories that you and he could benefit from.
 
Yep, it could work, for another month or two..and then I imagine you'd really want to know what was happening and then you'd be miserable.

I don't think you would be unsuccessful if you were dating a guy who introduced his partners to each other, and if he dated people who were interested in at least attempting a friendly relationship with each other, but a man who is trying to hide or keep his partners from knowing what is really going on is not going to find much success, and being one of his partners is not ever going to be easy. Truth is, maybe he's too unsure about his identity to stand firm in it, I know even my husband (20+ years poly) can feel awkward about developing feelings for others - but really, objectively I'd avoid people who aren't upfront with everybody and feeling positive about what they want be it poly or anything else.
 
I have met her; the three of us even sat in her kitchen and talked about the whole thing, including the idea of his keeping us both. (This was after the first time I found out.) She was pleasant and seems like a good person, and neither of us got angry or cried or said anything sarcastic. That is the main reason I think it could possibly work. But during that conversation, she said they had only been together twice a few weeks ago, because she got "caught up in the moment," but they were really just friends. I knew they had actually been together more than that, including the very night before. When I said, "but what about last night?" she looked kind of shocked, because I wasnt supposed to know - she thought they had agreed not to tell me, but he had. So even though I like her, trust is kind of an issue. I cant figure out why it was so important to her for me not to know, and if she really is ok with it now.
 
My answer to this is always the same - ask her out to coffee and ask ;)
(I seriously I always take the herbal supplement Calmes Forte ahead of time, cause shit like that makes introvert-me nervous, but if you don't ask, people often don't seem to tell! - don't let worries or assumptions about other partners of your partner cloud up your head, it's good to know everybody will be upfront with their wants/needs/desires, and that is what I think makes things easier)
 
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the three of us even sat in her kitchen and talked about the whole thing, including the idea of his keeping us both.
Yes, like trophies or playthings. How nice.

. . . she said they had only been together twice a few weeks ago, because she got "caught up in the moment," but they were really just friends. I knew they had actually been together more than that, including the very night before. When I said, "but what about last night?" she looked kind of shocked, because I wasnt supposed to know . . .
Do you really need any more red flags? Run and don't look back!

.
 
Triads or vees can work just fine, sure. But only with people who can trust each other and show each other a high level of respect. As for this particular situation?

I agree completely with Nyc. This is not an ethical man. Things will only get worse from here, sooner or later.

He kept the affair from you initially, then lied to you about it again, even though he had no reason to. He's pressing you for bisexual contact when it's not what you want. He has no problem with living under what's obviously a huge double standard.

but he was very persistant in maintaining the relationship, even when I tried to break it off. So I agreed to keep seeing him.

Does he know how to take no for an answer ever? It doesn't sound like it.

But all that pales to nothingness compared to this --
The other big factor in this situation is that he, himself, is extremely jealous and does not want either of us to be with any other man, and even gets angry if we have male friends, if anyone even calls, or comes by, etc. To me, this seems kind of hypocritical, but I dont actually have time for another intimate relationship, anyway. I can barely manage this one. (She's agreed to not see anyone else as well.) It drives me insane, though, to be accused of fooling around on him, when I'm not, and he's the one who wants a second relationship, and has lied about it.

This is an extremely common pattern in abusive relationships. It escalates over time. At first it might seem almost sweet in a way. But as time goes on, his demands get less reasonable, he gets violent (whether emotionally, physically, or verbally), you're driving yourself crazy just to keep him from getting upset, he controls your whole life. Of COURSE he doesn't want "his" women knowing each other well (except in the carnal sense), because then they could compare notes and see how crazy he is!

Please do a little reading about extreme jealousy and the warning signs of abusive relationships. Do you really want your daughter growing up to think this is how women are supposed to be treated by the men who love them?

And y'know what, even if he never gets worse and is just a jealous jerk, I still wouldn't put up with it. Don't you believe that you deserve to be treated better than this?
 
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The other big factor in this situation is that he, himself, is extremely jealous and does not want either of us to be with any other man, and even gets angry if we have male friends, if anyone even calls, or comes by, etc.

Sorry, I ADD`d after this point. Do you not see this as a BIG, RED, WARNING FLAG, COMPLETE WITH NEON LIGHTS ??????

Sign the dotted line if you want to be owned and controlled. These are just the things he is admitting to NOW. Wait for the real goodies down the road.
 
Well, there's the social element as well. If they had to keep it a secret from me, then it would also be a secret from everyone else as well, including her adult children, her relatives, and the extremely small community we live in, and I think that may have been her reason. This situation would definitely be way too weird for most people, and I'm not sure she wanted people to know she was seeing him, or anyone at all. For some reason, he is more protective of her privacy than he ever was mine, even though she is not married, and should be able to have any kind of relationship she wants.

He actually claims that he would like nothing better than to have us all living under one roof as one big happy family, and we would be like sisters, but I dont know if thats out of a desire for intimacy and closeness, or control, i.e. always knowing where everyone is (or having someone who would tell him.)

He says that none of this would have happened if I had gotten a divorce and moved in with him, but the two women thing has been a pattern of his, so I'm skeptical. And right now my house is the only economic security I have, and I dont want to leave my daughter. I'm also scared I couldnt deal with my jealousy if I was living there and had no place to go.

He says he gets lonely and needs more, and I can appreciate that. Holidays, and not feeling like he is welcome at my house, is understandably difficult.He also says that the reason he is so suspicious of me is because I had affairs in the past when my marriage was crumbling (but not since I've been with him.) He says "I know what you are capable of when you are not happy," but at the time, I really didnt know there were other options, or any other way to handle it. Ironically, he's made me a more honest person.

He has many good qualities, is smart and funny, and has an interesting way of looking at the world. I never get tired of talking to him. I would hate not to have him in my life in some form. I even suggested that he make her his primary partner, and I would be his special "friend." I said I'd be happy to switch roles with her because I thought he was nicer to her and treated her with more respect. I said, "Make her choose between you and her children. Make her feel guilty for not being there every night." And to be honest, I was envious of their new relationship energy.

To my surprise, he said no. And so did she! I cant win even when I give in.

ps thankyou for listening. I cant even tell my therapist this stuff.
 
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?

What's the point of therapy if you hold big stuff back? How can they help you if they don't know the real story? And why pay for a safe space to tell your secrets and work stuff out if you don't actually tell your secrets? That just really confuses me...
 
He has many good qualities, is smart and funny, and has an interesting way of looking at the world. I never get tired of talking to him. I would hate not to have him in my life in some form.

All the things you mentioned, (in each of your posts, not just this quote.) resonate. I actually love a man like this. I`d never be in a relationship with him again, for all these reasons. There is the side you 'love', and there is the dark, controlling side. They make a very good argument, and love to show you the dotted-line that leads to their thinking. Then everything they say sounds reasonable.

Problem is,.,..no matter what you do, or how you do it, it will never be enough. They will find fault, and they will always want to judge, and control your actions.

You may not want another man in your life now, but can you predict the future ? I guarantee you, he will dump you faster then a uncle-bens-instant-minute if you so much as show interest in someone else. ( Forget my experience, I have seen many other men and women go through this, and been there for them after the shit hit the fan. ) In the meantime, he will count on you being 'exhausted' over your current relationship with him. Explaining yourself constantly takes up a lot of free time.
 
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Wow I missed that you said he was jealous if you had male friends. Forget anything optimistic I said. He may have good qualities but bad ones like that don't really balance it out to make any kind of a long term healthy friendship let alone relationship. :(
 
?

What's the point of therapy if you hold big stuff back? How can they help you if they don't know the real story? And why pay for a safe space to tell your secrets and work stuff out if you don't actually tell your secrets? That just really confuses me...

You're right. But even therapists can have some pretty conventional views about love and sex. Last night on TV, Dr. Drew was saying that a relationship involving more than two people was just flat out not healthy.
 
There is the side you 'love', and there is the dark, controlling side. They make a very good argument, and love to show you the dotted-line that leads to their thinking. Then everything they say sounds reasonable...

Problem is,.,..no matter what you do, or how you do it, it will never be enough... I guarantee you, he will dump you faster then a uncle-bens-instant-minute if you so much as show interest in someone else.
... In the meantime, he will count on you being 'exhausted' over your current relationship with him. Explaining yourself constantly takes up a lot of free time.

That is exactly how I feel at times. Even if I was single and not living at home, even if we were married and living together, I'm not sure I could make him happy. Theres nothing inherently wrong with wanting more or enjoying other people, but it shouldnt be because no one is ever good enough, or to play one person against another. Still, I do genuinely love him, and hope we can figure allof this out.

I almost wish a male with the One Penis Policy would comment, so I could understand why a man would feel this way. There has to be more to it than just political incorrectness and control issues. He's empathetic and has a generous spirit in many ways.

But my boyfriend seems to think that "men are just different." I think there are bigger differences among individuals then between the two sexes. I know men who I think see the world the way I do, and women I totally dont understand at all. But he's convinced that women dont experience jealousy as intensely, they are more nurturing, less competitive, and that in men, possessiveness is just how nature designed them, it's hardwired and testosterone driven.
 
You're right. But even therapists can have some pretty conventional views about love and sex. Last night on TV, Dr. Drew was saying that a relationship involving more than two people was just flat out not healthy.

True. But this is why when you go to a therapist you say that you believe in polyamory/unconventional relationships and make sure they are welcoming to it, if not already experienced with the subject. :)

It's like making sure your doc has the right specialty!
 
But my boyfriend seems to think that "men are just different." I think there are bigger differences among individuals then between the two sexes. I know men who I think see the world the way I do, and women I totally dont understand at all. But he's convinced that women dont experience jealousy as intensely, they are more nurturing, less competitive, and that in men, possessiveness is just how nature designed them, it's hardwired and testosterone driven.

Well good luck with that.

Many of these types start out wth only a OPP. It does graduate.

I remember my ex initially had only a problem with 'just men'. He said everything else was cool. No biggie right ? Why did I need more then my husband and my boyfriend ? I figured that was a fair compromise.
He was so good, giving, and game in so many other ways.....such a 'sweet' man.
Well, one day he made a nasty comment about a girlfriend of mine. Piped up with ' Oh, well I guess if you fuck women, I should get to fuck new women too !' He then went out and did things I had never done. Trying to tell me, it was my fault he did that. He was just trying to 'keep-up' with me, afterall.
Then he made snide comments about friends....then it graduated to anyone who came near me, I must want to fuck.
Or, I MUST be doing something behind his back, because you see,..he 'knew' I wanted more. I had said so in the beginning of the relationship. So poor HIM had to constantly deal with the fact that he knew he was never enough for me.

' Excuse me dear, while I go fuck my wife, and my live-in girlfriend. You go chew on the fact that I must deal with the pain, of not being enough man for you.' :rolleyes:
'Men are competitive.'
' Men have territorial-needs women can't comprehend.'

Oh, please. Blah, blah, blah, Blabbedy-Blah. The translation is ' I have fears that I would rather keep, then actually have to do something about. I will use my manhood to convince you of this, as it is all I got.'

...and if you fall for it ? You are feeding the monster.

I loved him as a friend before we ever dated, before I saw the dark side of him. So I am sorta stuck with that love. Love doesn`t mean being in a relationship though. There are lots of better people to love, who are actually worth my time.
If you choose to be in a relationship with this sort, just realize you will never 'win'. Your desires, needs are always second. Whatever jealousy, imaginary scenarios, problems he comes up with, will always reign the relationship, and drain you of yourself.

Enjoy.
 
. . . I do genuinely love him, and hope we can figure allof this out.

Yeah, well..."what's love got to do with it?"

Seriously, we can love people who are totally wrong for us. Just because you love someone doesn't automatically mean you can have a healthy relationship with him, especially if he sees love as a reason to possess and control you.
 
After this weekend, I think most people would just rather have affairs.

Politically correct or not, I decided to accept my boyfriend’s OPP, because I can’t see the logic in getting mad, just out of principle, about someone denying you something you don’t want anyway. I could go out and sleep with someone else to even the score, only to end up feeling bad about myself, or starting a another ,relationship I don’t even want, and disappointing yet another person.

So, okay, let's do this, I say, this triad or vee, or whatever it is. She’s too busy with work, I have a daughter, you need more. Maybe you’re right, maybe you need two women. I stop throwing a jealous tantrum, have coffee with the girlfriend. Everything seems cool. And what happens? They start fighting. She gets jealous because I am at his place, goes out partying until 5:30 in the morning. She tells him the next day about all the guys hitting on her and how it wouldn’t have happened if he had been there to protect her. She says she wanted him there, but being around me, is just too awkward. He spends the day being mad at her, jealous, and taking it out on me.

They’ve been having this three way relationship since July or August. I’m the only one who didn’t know I was in one. They’ve had plenty of time to adjust to the situation – they instigated it, they worked around it. Now suddenly, my just knowing about it, and everything being all out in the open, has thrown a monkey wrench into the works. Why are people less jealous when they are sneaking around, than when everyone knows? Maybe I screwed up. Maybe i was supposed to get mad and fuck off, but no, instead, like an idiot, I say, okay, maybe this could work. I've even researched polyamourism on the internet! People say you can love more than one person and share. People say you can get over jealousy and possessiveness. Hell, she claimed she wasn’t jealous of me at all, so it shouldnt be a probelm. It was only my delicate feelings they were supposedly so worried about, and that was why everyone had to lie.

So after he took me home, picking a fight with me the whole way because he wanted to drive off mad, he’s at her place tonight, patching things up, and I’m sitting here, trying not to feel jealous and alone, knowing they are having crazy make up sex.

The only reason i posted anything here is that I was looking for advice on how to handle my own jealousy. I want to know how to love someone, appreciate everything about them, and not care who else they love, or worry if they love them more than me. Mono, triads, vees, quads, or any other combination one of you are in, I was hoping someone here could tell me how to do this.

Are you guys really sure about all of this polyamoury stuff? I mean, can you love someone unselfishly, enjoy your time with them, and be a part of their life without worrying that they love someone else more? Can you live day to day, sharing the person you love, their time, their thoughts, their body, without keeping score? Can a person be so secure in their own identity, to give and not worry what they are getting back, or what somebody else is getting? Or is the only way to not feel jealousy, to not care and to not get hurt, to just simply force yourself not really care about them or yourself, all that much?
 
After this weekend, I think most people would just rather have affairs.

...

Are you guys really sure about all of this polyamoury stuff? I mean, can you love someone unselfishly, enjoy your time with them, and be a part of their life without worrying that they love someone else more? Can you live day to day, sharing the person you love, their time, their thoughts, their body, without keeping score? Can a person be so secure in their own identity, to give and not worry what they are getting back, or what somebody else is getting? Or is the only way to not feel jealousy, to not care and to not get hurt, to just simply force yourself not really care about them or yourself, all that much?

Um, so you're judging by their craziness that poly doesn't work and that "most people" would rather just have affairs? Has it occurred to you that maybe your bf and his girl are not "most people" but are just dysfunctional human beings? I know that sounds harsh, but look at their behavior. Guess who acts that way all the time, usually in MONO relationships? Drama-seekers, folks with issues they haven't worked out (i.e. dysfunctional people), and teenagers.

It's not a pretty truth, but you are NOT dealing with an emotionally well-developed person... not because he can't deal with poly...lots of people can't deal with poly, they're monogamous by choice or by nature and that's just fine... but because he *says* he wants poly when he's clearly not ready to:
- disengage from partners who explode into fits of drama for no reason
- treat partners who *are* managing their shit well with any respect at all
- deal with his jealousy at ALL

Are we sure about this polyamory stuff? Can people really love more than one person healthily? Read my blog. Read Phy's blog. Read Mya and Rory's blog. Read Redpepper's blog. I could go on. I've been with my gf for more than two years now and I feel so incredibly happy and blessed. But all the folks I just mentioned? We date people who are sane, strong, and *actually* ok with poly, not just saying they are like your bf's gf is, and definitely not just using it as an excuse to get whatever they want, like your bf is.

We all struggle with communication, boundaries, difficult feelings... just like mono folks. And, if we're lucky and willing to work at it, we manage to build a life that makes us very very very happy... just like mono folks.

No advice we or anyone else gives you will help unless your bf is willing to seriously reconsider his ways of handling things. I guarantee you, even if it was just you and him, he'd be finding some reason, sooner or later, to throw tantrums and treat you like crap. I know you love him and you want to believe that poly is the problem, not him. But honey... it's him.
 
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