Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Introductions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-22-2019, 10:36 AM
vinsanity0's Avatar
vinsanity0 vinsanity0 is online now
Spaminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,052
Default

You asked if it is possible to be in a BDSM relationship as one arm of a V. The answer to that question is yes. Is it possible with him? I hate to say this, but I don't think so. At least not with what you have described.

Do you realize that to get what you want you'd have to "train" these people? The three of you do not exist in the same dynamic.

It would be possible for you two to learn BDSM together, but Bryce and Alice have so many issues going on. They don't seem to have learned how to communicate at all with each other. Communication can be hard, but being non-existent is definitely not a good thing.

My best suggestion for you is to explore the local BDSM community and find a mentor.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-22-2019, 01:22 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,306
Default

I'm sorry you struggle and hurt.

FWIW? Here's what I think:

Quote:
I am not feeling great about how the communication has gone so far. I feel like am being stonewalled.
Accept this is a no go and weird sounding. Bryce blames Alice like she's the one preventing him from more than kissing and you find from Alice she doesn't care about policing him. So something is hinky there. Not your job to figure out why or to solve it.

Keep away from both Bryce and Alice. Ten years later -- they still sound wonky as ever.

Quote:
I really don’t know for sure if B is or has ever slept with any other women than me in their marriage.
I never asked before. I will now.
You -- in your naivete you sound like you need more sex education. WHY have you not asked til now? For your own sex health and perhaps mental and emotional health -- you need to know what you are getting yourself into.

You didn't know with the turned out to be gay husband, you didn't know with the older BDSM dude, didn't know with Bryce the first time around.... you seem to "float along" into things.

I think you could benefit from figuring yourself out so you stop "floating into" weird things. You might also consider a counselor to help. Learn what healthy dating IS. It doesn't sound like you have ever had it.

Bryce -- sounds like a sloppy hinge. He was ok with Alice walking all over you before. He doesn't deal with things. You don't like either of that.

Quote:
Bryce and I did meet up for sex a few times before he told Alice. He suggested I come live in his home with he and his two kids (only 1 and 3) which was truly a huge mistake in so many ways, as I understand things now
He took up with you before telling Alice? That sounds like cheating. So you were "the other woman" and he moves you into his home? You don't think that would explain a LOT with Alice's behavior toward you back then?

Quote:
I felt no small bit that Alice enjoyed asserting a certain dominance over me, because she could, and because Bryce allowed it. At the same time, as I much later learned, they were having problems in their marriage, and she had been losing her power position over Bryce as the major money earner.
Esp with young kids back then and perhaps lessening of her own income and increasing dependence on him -- she may have been going through the motions so as not to break up and be a single mom.

She tried to date you too, group sex, and not really into either. Then being mean to see if you go away. Then basically wanting to hang around all the time with you and Bryce to hopefully prevent you and Bryce from sharing 1:1 sex since you aren't going away. That doesn't sound like a person saying "joyous yes" to being in a V situation to me.

Quote:
He said he couldn’t get her to discuss the situation of me being back in their lives again either.
He's going ahead anyway? He's jumping the gun AGAIN? He sounds kind of a jerk. Be kinder to YOU not to be offering you a wonky model AGAIN. Be kinder to just divorce Alice and stop giving her wonky marriage. But that part is THEIR problem to solve. Not yours.

Why do you want to accept a wonky dating offer from a meh sounding old wonky BF (Bryce) rather than starting fresh with new dating partners who have it better together?

Quote:
“I have zero interest in policing my husband. I have a busy life with my career, and our family. B is a grown man, and he is going to do what he wants. He knows there is a line not to be crossed.”
Alice -- she sounds resigned and like she's throwing herself into other things for distraction and not having to deal with Bryce/her marriage. That doesn't sound "joyous yes" to participating in a V.

Quote:
B said that he really didn’t want to come home telling A after the fact that we had had sex without her ok. He said that he had agreed to keep things “light” with me
If he has agreements to keep with Alice like "kissing but no actual sex" and he doesn't tell you about agreements that affect you and your relationship with him? More of his "not dealing with things?" What about these behaviors makes him a great dating partner to you?

I wonder if he's using you for a woobie. Like things are so bad with Alice, but he doesn't deal with things. So to endure/make do, he wants you around for a woobie again. Maybe better for HIM... but not so hot for YOU.

And I wonder if because Bryce is your college crush guy and you've had poor relationships... if you haven't built him up in your head to be more ideal than he actually is in real life?

Quote:
She told me she didn’t want the “blow by blow” of things. I understand that. I can live with that just fine. I like my privacy in my sex life. I told her that I respect her too much to not have an understanding between us of where things were at.
I wonder if for whatever reason -- keeping the family together, finances, etc -- she's willing to overlook Bryce being with you/other people so long as appearances are maintained and she is The Wife. And you asking her stuff pisses her off because it "breaks the deal." She wants to hold herself "apart" from it all and there you go making her face reality.

I could be wrong in my impressions. But regardless of how it actually is with them...it just doesn't sound like this couple is healthy to begin with. Or like they are joyous about doing a poly V with you. So you floating back into their mess because you still have an attraction to Bryce does not sound good for YOUR health and well being. Keep away.

Quote:
If I didn’t love B so much, I’d move on an explore polyamory with an experienced couple that could guide me.
Move on to dating other people who are actually poly if you want to poly date. Explore the kink thing -- attend some workshops, munches, etc.

The love you have for Bryce? Will fade if you aren't fueling it.

It's like you FINALLY get partway decent sex with Bryce (as compared to other lovers) so you are loathe to give it up despite how unhealthy his other stuff is.

You can do better than Bryce.

Quote:
what I want is to formally be his slave for the rest of my life. But I don’t think he even knows what that means.
He can't even get it together in his marriage and you know he doesn't deal with stuff well. He puts off. THIS makes him an awesome dominant you want to enter a lifetime slave contract with?

Quote:
On top of it, I think Alice has done a good job of emasculating him until I came back into the picture months ago.
I think you want a BDSM relationship where you can be the slave and have a strong domme.

Just because Bryce has been the best lover of the lot so far? Doesn't mean he's GOOD at kink or even HEALTHY for you.

Quote:
I think I am interested in learning about BDSM, and being part of a “Vee” - whatever this it. Do those intersect? Are their places I can learn?
Dungeons have classes. There are local munches. Check FetLife and your local resources.

Quote:
I really have hard feelings towards her for it. I’m less attracted to Bryce for it, but when I have been with him alone, the him that is him with me has come back to life again.
Well, to me that sounds like (the Bryce in your head/fantasies) doesn't match (Bryce in real life.)

Don't date him until he's divorced and healed from his baggage and has it better together. But don't hold your breath or put your own life on pause just waiting on him. He's been in the wonky marriage 10 years with no real changes.

It's not like you are going to wait on him for 10, 20, 30 years to finally get it together are you? Haven't you waited enough in your adult life to get to dating how YOU want to be dating? You sound like you want to explore both kink and poly, you are single. So get on with it.

Quote:
I have backed off, because Bryce will not see me alone since December because everything became complicated. He won’t communicate clearly with me about it. He won’t come see me without bringing Alice. I’d refused to let him do this until Monday.
Quit seeing them both. They are weird.

Quote:
I’m trying to be the facilitator myself in all of this because I don’t want to leave him ever again. I’m trying to do the groundwork on all of this, when I don’t know they want anything except to remain in their own existence without me.
I think you could see a counselor. Why do you want to put all your eggs in THIS basket when you don't even know if they want you involved with them again?

And even if they DID want you... why would you jump in? When they sound so unhealthy?

Quote:
But if that is true, why come over to see me. Why does Bryce say he loves me. Why still call me.
Because you are the woobie that helps him endure his marriage and avoid ending it. He can get stuff from you. That might be great for him.

But not for you.

Keep away. You are not obligated to be his life raft/woobie.

Quote:
I’m really confused today. And hurting.
If hanging around with these people leaves you confused and hurt? Stop hanging around them so you can un-confuse and un-hurt. Don't keep hanging around them and go back for more of same.

Instead? You could go attend classes and whatnot and have new BDSM and poly experiences that are healthier.

Stop settling. Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

And so far all of your investment in Bryce and Alice has come to "confused and hurt." Not worth it.

Attraction or love (for Bryce) or (your idea of Bryce) is not enough to make this a healthy thing.

I suggest you do your soul searching, consider a counselor, and go date poly people and kink people who are NOT Bryce and Alice so you can hopefully healthier and better dating experiences than you have had so far.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-22-2019 at 10:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-24-2019, 12:56 PM
kimberly kimberly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Default

Wow. Youíve given me a lot to consider.
Thank you.

The three of us did have aI iti all talk. I asked some questions this time about monogamy, etc. They are and have been a monogamous couple with the exception of dating me, and early indiscretions. Bryce is permitted only to frottage women in areas like strip clubs/public.

Aliceís policy was something her mother used with her father who travelled 100%, was a 100% dick, and had sex around the globe. I already knew that about her father having met him while I lived there. I felt awful she grew up like that.

I felt so low for meeting up with Bryce four times before meeting her at the beginning, especially learning that. Bryce was a dick for doing it, even though there marriage was in trouble then. He told her. I learned that she confessed she had been doing same later.

They agreed to stop, recommit to their marriage. I was devastated, thinking things were over for me. Then Bryce told me she wanted to meet me, and we went out.

I apologized to Alice for the affair before moving in. She graciously told me she did not blame me, but blamed Bryce. She said if I had known her, it would be a different story.

Alice was the majority breadwinner, still at work. But she did not want to break up the family. I didnít want to give up Bryce. He didnít want to give up me or the kids. The bond between he and Alice felt very weak back then.

While we spoke about this together, a lot was cleared out from the past.

We spoke about the recent past, etc. I spoke about polyamory and what I knew a bit about vees.

We spoke about how in the past living together we were a Vee - but I pointed out no communication, boundaries, I felt powerless. There was general discussion.

I lived in their loft back then. Their children were small, and we didnít hide any thing within the walls of the house, or in front of some rather disapproving neighbors lol. But we were not out on dates, and in most situations, I felt like I was walking behind them as man and wife - them with rings on. People assumed I was a nanny. I was introduced to their family as a friend living with them - and the left up for interpretation.

We joked about me being their mistress. I really wanted an official position of some sort. I was taken care of in their home. I did also participate in responsibilities as an equal family member.

Looking back, it might have worked out if not for the time needed for the young family, busy careers.

Now they have preteens. They remember me certainly, but Alice says ďWell we donít live in a communeĒ referring to us being some outward threesome I guess.

That hurt. I said nothing though. Bryce didnít either to that. They live in a very prentiousness neighborhood, and I get the sense that they are much more invested in this image of the marriage/family now.

And yes.. now in speaking with them they have that bond between them.

But Alice sure isnít and doesnít want to manage me or Bryce.
And I wonít live without clarity.
We want to see if something is possible.

I said Iíd do some looking in to things.
Bryce can see me alone.

My home is in another town - so he is allowed to come here. Line drawn at no clothes off until we talk again at least.

There is a huge problem about the amount of available time Bryce has - lots of family obligations. How is that handled??

How is a mistress-wife (which I think is the thing weíd look at) different than a Vee?

Kimberly
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-01-2019, 09:49 PM
kdt26417's Avatar
kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
Official Greeter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Yelm, Washington
Posts: 17,153
Default

Hi kimberly,

The mistress-wife thing you seem to be moving towards, is really just one kind of Vee. There is Bryce, the hinge of the Vee, Alice, the wife and one leg of the Vee, and you, the mistress and other leg of the Vee. If you decide to go that way. If you do, you need to resign yourself to the fact that Bryce has a limited amount of available time. You'll have to make do with whatever little he can offer. Can you live with that?

Are they communicating with you now more, or do you have to take the lead and do all of the legwork? You mentioned that Alice doesn't want to manage Bryce, yet she expects him to know that there is a line he should not cross. How will/does he know what that line is? Also, will they be out to their friends/neighbors, or will you be their "dirty little secret?"

I hope the three of you can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
__________________
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-01-2019, 10:15 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,306
Default

Quote:
But Alice sure isnít and doesnít want to manage me or Bryce.
And I wonít live without clarity.
We want to see if something is possible.
I don't think you are going to get clarity like that. Unless Alice is saying "Do whatever, but not in my town and don't tell me about it."

And then you live a separate life in your town dating who you want to date and seeing Bryce sort of "short distance" long distance, if and when he's able to come visit.

Quote:
How is a mistress-wife (which I think is the thing weíd look at) different than a Vee?
Still a kind of V to me because Bryce is the hinge or shared sweetie.

Just don't be bending your whole life in your town to wait on pins and needles for when Bryce has a chance to see you.

Keep dating other people and keep living your own life in your town.

Me? I wouldn't do it because I hate LDR, even short LDR. I also don't want to get into it with people who sound like they have a wonky marriage. But I guess if you are willing to try it on for a time, give it X months. If it is working, keep going. If it is more a drag than anything else? Stop participating.

Galagirl
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-09-2019, 03:39 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 7,045
Default

I'm glad you have had at least one talk with this couple. I'm not sure why you want to continue with this mess however.

I've had teenage crushes, or lingering feelings for an ex or two, that lasted for years, but I learned to not fan the flames, and they eventually subsided. I think you could do the same.

Alice sounds unpleasant. Bryce sounds browbeaten and has very sketchy boundaries. None of you seem very self aware, although I appreciate you are working on it. I also think you sound maybe like a people-pleaser... you've put up with a lot of unpleasant shit from all your partners over the years.

You're in a V. Whether it's kinky/BDSM or not is a whole other thing.

If you want a Dom, at least in the bedroom, or 24/7, find a partner who is self aware and can truly guide you. Some subs are helped tremendously by a strong caring dominant who helps them organize their lives. Bryce is not that guy. He can't even do a vanilla marriage very well.

GalaGirl has spent a lot of time giving you great advice. You chose not to follow it, except for having one preliminary fact finding conversation. It should be the first of many conversations. Either many more hard conversations where progress is made, or just bow out, since it all seems too overwhelming and kind of futile.

Why would you settle for X amount of time only being able to do clothed kissing? He can't even "frot" you? He can only get lap dances with strippers, right? So you get some kissing. No genital contact, not even over clothes. Generally, that is not enough sexual contact for a vital woman in her 40's.

One thing I didn't see addressed: why the interest in polyamory? Maybe because you want a strong Dom, and you are bi-curious? Do you know that you can date people as individuals? You could have a bf, and have a gf, and neither of them need be partners to each other. They may not even ever meet. They may meet and not particularly care for each other. They may meet and actively dislike each other. There's a chance they may meet and become platonic friends. Finally, there is a chance they may meet and be attracted, or even fall in love. And then you'd have a triad, if everyone wants that.

Since you seem so confused, I'd recommend one on one dating for you for now. If you date at all. I second GG's advice to get some counseling about why you keep picking out wonky people to date. You deserve better.

Also, do some more research into polyamory. Reading around this board is good. The blogs/journals of poly people here as well as all the advice threads. Also you could read about Poly 101 at morethantwo.com. And the book Opening Up. There are also poly podcasts some people like.

You might do well to back off from this couple and get some help. A counselor, reading. Inform yourself so you don't keep picking out confusing partners with little self awareness or maturity.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
BigGuy (poly, M, married, 43, dating me since June 2018)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:07 AM
kimberly kimberly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Default

Iím sorry I have been unresponsive here.
There was death in the family, so everything else has been on hold.

Iíll post back soon.

Iíve read all the posts and Iíve been thinking and planning on next steps.
GalaGirl - a special thank you for putting so much time and thought into your evaluation and advice - truly Iíve taken it in and am processing it

Kimberly.
__________________
Kimberly: straight poly bicurious single me
Bryce: straight biamorous married lover-friend
Alice: straight monogamous wife of Bryce
Alice has existing DADT-policy with rules with Bryce
~~Will we be able to become a FMF vee?~~
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing there is a field.
Iíll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about. ~Rumi
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:37 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,306
Default

I'm so sorry to hear of a death in the family. My sympathies.

Galagirl
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:25 PM.