Polyamory Vs "Walking Marriages"

The land where there are no husbands and marriage is unknown

A good informative video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQNOtIFTvAg

Walking Marriages

Probably the most famous – and most misunderstood – aspect of Mosuo culture is their practice of “walking marriages” (or “zou hun” in Chinese), so called because the men will walk to the house of their ‘partner' at night, but return to their own home in the morning.
The Mosuo generally live in large extended families, with many generations (great grandparents, grandparents, parents, children, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc.) all living together within the same house. For the most part, everyone lives within communal quarters, without private bedrooms or living areas. However, women between certain ages (see the section on “coming of age”) can have their own private bedrooms.
Traditionally, a Mosuo woman who is interested in a particular man will invite him to come and spend the night with her in her room. Such pairings are generally conducted secretly, so the man will walk to her house after dark (thus the description of “walking marriage”), spend the night with her, and return home early the next morning.
While it is possible for a Mosuo woman to change partners as often as she likes – and in fact, having only one sexual partner would be neither expected nor common – the majority of such couplings will actually be more long term. And few Mosuo women will have more than one partner at a time. More than one anthropologist has described this system as “serial monogamy”; and, in fact, many such pairings may last for a lifetime. ( In recent years, a lot of information about the Mosuo has portrayed their culture as a sexually promiscuous culture in which women change partners frequently; this is addressed in greater detail in our “Myths & Misinformation” section.)
Even when a pairing may be long term, however, the man will never go to live with the woman's family, or vice versa. He will continue to live with and be responsible to his family; she will continue to live with and be responsible to her family. There will be no sharing of property.
Most significantly, when children are born, the father may have little or no responsibility for his offspring (in fact, some children may not even know who their father is). If a father does want to be involved with the upbringing of his children, he will bring gifts to the mother's family, and state his intention to do so. This gives him a kind of official status within that family, but does not actually make him part of the family. Regardless of whether the father is involved or not, the child will be raised in the mother's family, and take on her family name.
This does not mean, however, that the men get of scot-free, with no responsibilities for children. Quite the opposite, in fact. Every man will share responsibilities in caring for all children born to women within their own family, be they a sister, niece, aunt, etc. In fact, children will grow up with many “aunts” and “uncles”, as all members of the extended family share in the duties of supporting and raising the children.
The result – as different as it may be from other systems – is a family structure which is, in fact, extremely stable. Think about it. Divorce is a non-issue…there are no questions over child custody (the child belongs to the mother's family), splitting of property (property is never shared), etc. If a parent dies, there is still a large extended family to provide care.
One particularly important result is the lack of preference for a particular gender. For example, in most cultures, the female will join the male's family when she gets married. The result is that if a couple has a lot of female children, they will lose them after marriage, and have no one to care for them in old age; but if they have male children, their sons (and their sons' wives) will care for them. So, in poorer populations in particular, there will be a strong preference for male children.
However, among the Mosuo, since neither male nor female children will ever leave home, there is no particular preference for one gender over the other. The focus instead tends to be on maintaining some degree of gender balance, having roughly the same proportion of male to female within a household. In situations where this becomes unbalanced, it is not uncommon for Mosuo to adopt children of the appropriate gender (or even for two households to ‘swap' male/female children). http://www.mosuoproject.org/walking.htm
 
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Yes, this is very interesting - a so-called "primitive" culture doing things in an utterly different way and making it work for them.

For some I can see how they would consider this superior to their own experiences of poly. I do not.

I want my family to be a "chosen" family, rather than one based on genetics - I want to decide who I want in my private space. Most of my family members I would not have wanted there for all sorts of reasons. If I had been forced to stay at home with all my various aunts, cousins, etc, there would have been several homicides out of desperation.. :)

I like that a society can exist thinking so utterly differently, though.
 
In 'walking" marriages, I feel the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. It does provide for privacy.

Even in everyday environment we interact with people of different hues at work or at social gatherings, which we take in our stride out of sheer compulsion or necessity.

In communities like Mosuo they have evolved a culture that gives due space to every kind of relationship.

And if you look at the system holistically there is a lot to favour it than against it.

Alexi
 
I like the concept, but I can't imagine living that way. It's very important for me to live with the people I love. And, bluntly, none of the people I love are related to me. In that culture, I would have to keep living with my mother and brothers, would not have been raised by my father, who is really the only redeemable one, and I would not get to live with my boyfriend.
If I had the choice to switch lives for that one, I would run away, as it would feel way too much like being trapped.

Even if the option was to live alone, without my biological family, I would pass. After all, I already have this option, but choose instead to live with men. I care for the companionship way more than I care about the sex.
Even with one resident partner, I guess I can imagine having a man visit me regularly, but I can't imagine not wanting more. Most of the enjoyable parts of a romantic relationship, to me, are the ones that come from everyday life. Cooking together, driving to work together, walking the dogs together. Just being in the same room, one reading, the other on a computer, and interrupting our activities to exchange a comment on what we're doing. Eating meals together.

I would hate to be unable to do it with my partners, and I would hate to have to do it with my biological relatives.

I find it interesting, and I love that it's one example of a matriarchal society, but it's definitely not something I would be interested in.
 
The biggest advantage in 'walking' marriages is that even as it gives max freedom to women and men, the children are automatically well taken care of. And the population gets regulated as well.

And the society as a whole is open about sexual relationships. In my reckoning I would consider such a society highly evolved. It has all the advantages of synergistic cooperative living.

If I understand well there is not much scope for bringing up children through polyamorous relationships; and even if that happens it's mostly by default.

Another discussion on 'walking' marriages

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72651

Alexi
 
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...their 'walking' marriage which struck me as something superior to polyamory in many ways.

If I understand well there is not much scope for bringing up children through polyamorous relationships; and even if that happens it's mostly by default.

Is your reason for starting this thread to point out the inferiority you see in polyamory?

There are so many ways to live polyamorously, that I don't think you can really make generalizations about how it compares to the walking marriages of the Mosuo. I have posted about them here before (here and here); they are also known as the Na people of China.

I really don't understand your comment about raising children in poly households. There are many people who purposely and successfully do that.
 
Nycindie,

I hardly find any discssions where it involves children, in a poly relationship. Hence my observation.

In any relations between the sexes, children must be an issue. How are the children to be taken care of. Infact there is a tacit understanding that care will be taken to remain childless with a poly partner.. whereas in walking marriage it is a straightforward thing.

In the Mosuo community the children are taken care of - as a given - without any condition whatsoever. Also all other aspects like economic and social aspects are amply taken care of. In contrast poly life is a lonely adventure.

I wouldn't compare the two. Each has its plusses and minusses. But on the face of it I think (with the limited knowledge, I have) walking marriage is more appealing to me as it contains the elements of polyamory with other social and economic aspects.

Walking marriage ... I would define it as 'poly with a difference'.

Thank you for the references to the two other discussions on the NA community.

Alexi
 
Infact there is a tacit understanding that care will be taken to remain childless with a poly partner..

? Many poly people want and have children. I guess there is a "tacit agreement" in our culture to try not to have children until one decides they're ready and talks about it with their partner(s), but that's hardly specific to poly.
 
I hardly find any discssions where it involves children, in a poly relationship. Hence my observation.
I guess you haven't read any of the numerous threads here on raising children in poly households, or how poly people share childraising responsibilities. We have a Master Thread on the topic with over 200 posts. Have you done a search at all?

In any relations between the sexes, children must be an issue.
Not in "any" relationship. That statement totally dismisses the many, many relationships of people past childbearing age. We still count. And for many other people, it isn't an "issue."

Infact there is a tacit understanding that care will be taken to remain childless with a poly partner.
Tacit understanding in all poly relationships? Where are you getting that from? Lots of the poly people I know in my community co-parent with their partners, and if they don't co-parent, their kids play together and whatnot. Lots of poly people who are members of this forum have kids, co-parent, and don't have rules that they not get pregnant. That sounds like some weird idea that a married couple can dictate what their unicorn can do. I don't think that's realistic at all. There are a gazillion different kinds of poly relationships. Some where people are childfree, some where people raise kids together, and everything possible that you can think of in between.

I'm just pointing out that those are some interesting generalizations you're making, but I really don't think there is much to substantiate them.
 
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Like some of the others I do find it interesting to read about a culture that treats marriage and sex differently in a way that makes sense and works for many. However, for me personally, this wouldn't work very well and I would not choose it for myself (just as I didn't choose to follow the marriage customs of our culture - we forged our own).

If I didn't have my boys I could see living as a solo poly like NYCindie. I think that I would like to have a few men and women that would come over and see me on a regular or irregular basis and then go back to their homes/lives/families. It was never my intention to "find" people to live with - that happened magically on its own (exactly twice - 19 years apart) so I don't think that I would go "looking" for that again. (Even though I love my situation - that is with these two boys that I couldn't help falling in love with, that work so well together.)

I would much prefer to be able to create a "chosen family" of lovers and friends than be expected to live with people that were family by accident of biology. (Don't get me wrong, I love my family, they are some of the most intelligent interesting people I know - but one week once a year living together is about as much as I can take.)

*****

In terms of children - lots of poly people have kids, some have kids from previous relationships, some have kids with their primary partner(s) only, and some have kids "amongst the poly family." The decision to bring a new person into the world is a major one so it is not surprising that people give it a lot of thought and take precautions to avoid it happening unintentionally. So there is a fair amount of talk about avoiding pregnancies with "secondary" partners - which may be where you get this impression.

You may also get the impression that poly people don't decide to have kids because in these boards alot of the posts have to do with people who are new to poly and struggling - THAT is not a time to add a pregnancy into the mix. So you may not see the older stable poly families posting much about it because they are busy living their happy poly lives and raising their children.

There was a recent poster talking about what happened when they moved their poly family from a poly-friendly neighborhood to one that was more judgemental. (I will try to find the thread - unless someone else remembers it.) You may want to check out the blogs of some of the established polyfolk here - I know Phy has written about their plans to start a family in her blog. And I have shared my story in this thread: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=130967#post130967

There are others that came to decide to be in a poly relationship later in life - after they had already raised one set of kids and aren't looking to parent again, or are past their childbearing years.

I only subscribed to Loving More magazine for one year but one of the four issues was ENTIRELY devoted to "Polyamorous Families and Parenting" (issue #37 if anyone wants one).
 
Infact there is a tacit understanding that care will be taken to remain childless with a poly partner

Ummm...what? There are many people on this forum who are actively poly and have kids. That may be a tacit understanding in all of your poly relationships, but it's hardly a "fact".

ETA: HAHA! I responded as soon as I read the above quote and didn't realize there were already several better responses. Ooops! :p
 
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Ummm...what? There are many people on this forum who are actively poly and have kids. That may be a tacit understanding in all of your poly relationships, but it's hardly a "fact".

ETA: HAHA! I responded as soon as I read the above quote and didn't realize there were already several better responses. Ooops! :p
I think your response is perfect!!
 
I remember reading about this culture a little in Sex at Dawn; it was nice to get more detailed information here. Also great to read the description as it being a "matriarchal society," as it is generally believed that no matriarchal societies exist, (Sex at Dawn suggests that the reality is that matriarchal societies simply appear egalitarian).

I think that every society has advantages and disadvantages, but that if the people commenting on this thread had been born into and raised in that society, that their family dynamic and experiences growing up, and likely the people in their family, would have been very, very different, and it perhaps would have been more bearable than you think. Being thrown into this society as you are now, a full-grown adult in the society you live in and know right now, is much different than having been raised in it.
 
I think the two problems I can see, apart from my own issues with it, would be a) how open is it with same-sex unions? It doesn't mention it and b) not knowing who the father is makes it more likely to have several generations worth of in-breeding, which after a while can become a problem.
 
I think the two problems I can see, apart from my own issues with it, would be a) how open is it with same-sex unions? It doesn't mention it and b) not knowing who the father is makes it more likely to have several generations worth of in-breeding, which after a while can become a problem.
But they know who their cousins and brothers are, and it doesn't mean that the woman just have sex with any man who slips into their beds at night. I think they make their choices thoughtfully.
 
If the kids are not told who their father is because it's deemed unimportant (regardless of whether the mother knows it, so it's not like I'm saying they have sex with anyone), it's definitely possible to have sex with your half-sibling without knowing.
Even if every woman has sex with the same man all of her life, if the men have sex with several women they could easily have children in different households, who might meet once adult and have sex and children.
Even if the kids meet each other's parents, the two women might not know they both had sex with the same man and that he fathered both their children.

I don't see what it has to do with making thoughtful choice. Hell, one could think that if you make thoughtful choices, the same men are likely to be deemed suitable partners by more than one woman.
 
I wonder how things work out in the natural world. The animals still have survived for thousands of years. Do they have an ear for genetics, atleast at a very sub-conscious or instinctive level?

Maybe in the same way it worked out well for the earlier matriarchal or other communities as they lived very close to nature.

Our ancestors too would not have known about genetics as a formal knowledge for a long period of our history except otherwise as a very instinctive feel. And humanity has survived intact till date; and with all the knowledge at our command there is no respite in the ever increasing number of diseases we keep fighting against.

And if I am not wrong one does not find any increasingly 'sick' or 'diseased' people in our matriarchal communities like the Mosuo or other.

Really I am very interested to know more.

Alexi
 
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