Advice Needed on Boundaries

swede123

New member
Hello,

I have been with my partner for 4 years, first in a monogamous relationship but he was unfaithful after 18 months and we had a discussion about being in an open relationship. He said it was purely about sex and having the freedom to be in a purely sexual relationship with other people. I agreed and we set some boundaries, primarily that if feelings started to develop then we needed to take another discussion.

Over the last 2 years, he has had a consistent friend and I don't have an issue with that, I also have a friend who I see a lot less frequently and I have been clear with that friend from the start about my circumstances. My partner led his friend to believe that he was in a monogamous relationship with her in the beginning and this led to friction. He then said he had taken a conversation with his friend and let her know that they were not monogamous and he had a partner and she agreed to keep seeing him.

I have discovered over the last 2 years that he spends entire nights with her which makes me uncomfortable but I have accepted that. I have recently discovered that he has keys to her apartment (he says she doesn't know anyone else who can keep spare keys for her) and I have found out that she on social media with him - now it makes sense that he would never accept posts I tagged him in.....

I have met my partner's family and friends, we travel together and we have a good relationship. My issue is that he seems to have created blurred boundaries - to me, his secondary relationship isn't just about sex. He says it is, it's not about HER, but about the freedom she represents. I don't understand then why I am having to be hidden away from her i.e. can't tag on social media, etc in order to protect the relationship with her.

I would welcome the forum's views on this. Am I over-reacting? I feel like he changed the boundaries without the courtesy of a conversation with me and I have become one of two partners to him. I feel that his secondary relationship is no longer just about sex and I feel threatened by this.
 
Hi,

I have a question.

If this other person is a "friend", why would she believe she is in a "monogamous relationship" with him?

My guess would be that they were in what she thought was a monogamous relationship and then found out he has another girlfriend. Now you are both his girlfriend.

But it is confusing that he hides you on social media, yet his family knows you. Do you see them regularly or have you met them some time ago? I am asking if it is possible that she is now the "family" partner and perhaps he has told them that it is over with you.

Either way, my hunch is that he is being dishonest with both of you.
 
I'm sorry you deal in this.

Are you sure you aren't threatened by his repeated lies and broken agreements? His track record does not read so hot. :(

He started mono with you, then cheated. Lies. He made new agreements with you.

My partner led his friend to believe that he was in a monogamous relationship with her in the beginning and this led to friction.

He lied to her at the start of their thing. Presenting as mono when he really was not. So hurts her... and also you since it sounds like it goes against the current Open agreements. The expectation seems to be clear with all partners. You were with yours. And he was not with his. Another agreement broken.

He then said he had taken a conversation with his friend and let her know that they were not monogamous and he had a partner and she agreed to keep seeing him.

He says he talked to her made new agreements with her. Might be true, but might also be more lying to you. It's not like you can ask her to verify.

And now he's telling you new stories -- you are having to be hidden away from her i.e. can't tag on social media, etc in order to protect the relationship with her. (Or to protect himself so his lies don't come to light and you and her don't compare notes and blow a gasket.)

He devalues her to you. He says the relationship "is not really about her, just the freedom (free sex?) he gets." That's not nice. That's not kind to devalue people and it is hard to admire or respect that in a person. It also leads to wonder how he devalues YOU.

Alternate? She matters to him but plays it down to you. Still devaluing her. Still more lies for you. That's not nice treatment either. When he lies to you a lot, that does not demonstrate that he values you or respects you.

I have met my partner's family and friends, we travel together and we have a good relationship

Just cuz you meet his people and gone on trips in the past doesn't mean he treats YOU well TODAY. I would not call lots of lies/broken agreements piling up having a "good" relationship. :(

Am I over-reacting?

I don't think so.

If his track record is flaky? Why be surprised he's blurred boundaries/broken agrements again/lied again? Sounds like that is how he rolls. If he has a habit of lying? Even if you ask him point blank

"We had an agreement to talk if other relationships became serious. I think this other relationship is serious to you. Is that so?"

He could lie to you some more to avoid having the conversation. Blow you off again. :( It's hard to be in a relationship with someone who isn't forthright and isn't trustworthy.

I think you have to decide if you still want to associate with him (knowing not to trust anything he says) or just bow out and skip all this drama.

If it were me? I'd skip it. If nothing else? You seem to want a relationship model he cannot actually deliver.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you SEASONEDPolyAgain and GalaGirl. It is good to get some unbiased, impartial views on this. I was very disappointed in him when he told me that in the beginning he led her to believe he was in a monogamous relationship with her. It goes against the way I believe people deserve to be treated - everyone needs to be given the chance to know what they are getting into and make their own decisions. It was me who gave him advice on how he needed to take the discussion with her to try to put things right or at least give her the information she needed (a little late) to make her own decisions.

I do see his family regularly so I doubt she is also meeting them, but I agree that I actually have no idea whether/what others know of her and what place she actually has in his life because he has been so shady.

I told him yesterday that it was a dealbreaker for me if it was not clear for her, and therefore me, what my place was in his life i.e. primary partner. He said he doesn't know how to fix this without jeopardising the relationship he has with her and repeated again that he doesn't want to lose what she represents, not specifically her. I agree, he is treating her horribly and I also agree that if he can treat one person that way, why would he treat me any better. I do believe he has deliberately or indirectly misled both of us - he is tellin me one thing and her something else.

In my heart I have known for a while that he believes poly or open means doing whatever you want without having to respect others. To me, it means greater respect and even more honesty and open communication to ensure all parties are comfortable with what is happening.
 
He said he doesn't know how to fix this without jeopardising the relationship he has with her and repeated again that he doesn't want to lose what she represents, not specifically her.

So this is all about him and what he gets, or gets to keep? Not even partly about how he can contribute to other people's well being? Sounds kinda selfish/self-centered.

Besides, he's not loosing any of his freedom. He could dump you both and keep on being a lying dude playing the field. *shrug*

In my heart I have known for a while that he believes poly or open means doing whatever you want without having to respect others. To me, it means greater respect and even more honesty and open communication to ensure all parties are comfortable with what is happening.

You guys do not have compatible values. I would let this guy go.

If you keep sticking around for all these shenanigans? Forever giving him "second chances?" All you teach is that he can do whatever, you will kick up some fuss and make some noise, all he has to do is make some "I'm sorry/I'll try to learn" noises back (without him really learning anything or changing his ways) and in the end you keep ON staying.

So yeah. Basically he learns he CAN do whatever he wants, even if it hurts you/others, and he doesn't have to sweat it because you keep sticking around no matter how badly he behaves.

This is not a healthy dynamic to me. Listen to your heart. Walk away.

Galagirl
 
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Hello swede123,

I have to agree with the others, your partner doesn't seem to be trustworthy. If it was just one or two things that would be one thing, but there seems to be a whole pattern here. I know you said you have a good relationship, so maybe breaking up with him is not an option you'd want to consider. I'll just say that if you're going to stay with him, watch him like a hawk. He probably does have feelings for this other woman, he just doesn't want to admit that (for whatever reasons).

I hope you can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
"I told him yesterday that it was a dealbreaker for me if it was not clear for her, and therefore me, what my place was in his life i.e. primary partner. He said he doesn't know how to fix this without jeopardising the relationship he has with her and repeated again that he doesn't want to lose what she represents, not specifically her. "

Maybe he wants you both as full partners rather than one as a partner and the other as a friend. Or even one primary and one secondary. I am not saying you have to do that but it is a valid and ethical desire.
 
SEASONEDPolyagain, I agree that it is a valid desire, but not without an upfront conversation as that would mean he wants to change the boundaries. That doesn't work for me and I need to be with someone forthright who respects me enough to let me make my own decisions about what works for me.
 
What is happening here is he is lying to you both. He is trying to lead a double life. He practically admits that when he says he doesn't want to jeopardize the other relationship. He is lying when he says it's not about her. He probably tells her he is with you for practical reasons.

This is one of the few times I would say it's okay to contact her and get the real story.
 
vinsanity0 I would never contact her, but I do believe you're right. He's playing both of us.

You are all right. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't respect the boundaries we agreed together, and that I have respected. If I can't trust him, I can't be with him.
 
I’m not advocating being with him— he sounds muddled- but have you thought through what’s makes it RIGHT in your mind to get to determine what he does with someone else? Is what he is doing with YOU working for you? If so, does it matter what he is doing with someone else— or is that insecurity?

You said something like he needs to be clear about yoi being primary WITH her in order for you to feel, translated, important. You have to be more inportant than anyone else to feel important, if that is the case. And it gives their relationship power over yours

I think I would work on defining my boundaries.

You agree to be non-monogamous— and so you consent to opening up to new relationships. But only if you can cut them off? Have a heads’ up so you. can adjustment to not being the only important person to your partner? Back out if you are no longer number one? Be acknowledged on social media? Be acknowldeged on social media— but not have your partner out you as poly by also acknowledging someone else?

Some of those seem ethical to me and some don’t. I think you need to look at it from a perspective of “how would you like and want to be treated if you were A. In a situation where a Love was growing with someone else (it might be, as much as he denies it— and that happens- yoi can’t regulate feelings) or B. in your meta’s position.

It’s fine to ask to be treated well. It’s not so fine to ask to regulate how someone is with someone else as a stand-in for treating you well.

I’m not so aure he’s good at treating two people both well while dating— you may need to ask for that and go ahead and react and respond to him not doing so. It doesn’r make Him a terrible person- there’s a learning curve. But this is4 something you want to let go on

And, if he’s not good at treating you in a way that feels good when yoi’r The one person well while dating— poly doesn’t make that better. You may be better off limo or doing poly with someone else
 
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Hi 1234567,

Thanks for your input, these are good points and well worth consideration.

I agree that some things come down to insecurity but I have done a lot of soul searching throughout the last 2 years. For example, when I found out he was spending the night with her, I was upset but before I reacted I sat down and asked myself what I was really upset about. Was I just jealous and did it really make a difference. I decided it was jealousy so it was my issue to work on and let it go.

I agree I have no right to decide what happens when he is with her and I don't interfere. If I know he is seeing her, I give space, I don't text or call. What I do expect though is that we both respect the boundaries we both agreed on and if something isn't working for either of us or we want to change the boundaries, that we take an upfront discussion about it, no lies.

As I have been told by him that I am the primary and she is the secondary, is it so awful for me to expect that his actions match his words?
 
If you're fine with updating your relationship to true polyamory, where love is allowed, and it's not "just sex," that conversation needs to happen.

You are seeing a guy for sex. But you call him friend, so there are fond feelings, right? It doesn't have to be "true love," imho, for it to be polyamory. We can love our friends, and love our FWBs, without being "in love." Make sense?

Your bf (a nickname would help, for him and his OSO and for your OSO), is coming from a monogamous mindset. (Most of us are.) But you've done soul searching. You were upset he is spending the night with his "friend," that he has her key, that he won't let you tag him on FB in case she sees. You've come to terms with these clues that it's more than "just sex." But he's cheated on you once. He's used to lying to get extra sex. OK, that is extremely common in our culture. But it would be nice if he could know it's not necessary in poly. In fact, quite the opposite.

But you can be poly, and still cheat. Some people get off on the cheating aspect, the lying, the hiding, adds to the spice.

I don't know if you can work this out. You seem willing, he doesn't. And it doesn't even have to be primary/secondary. It could be co-primaries.

I just hope he doesn't have one or two other women he is cheating on both of you with...
 
have you thought through what’s makes it RIGHT in your mind to get to determine what he does with someone else? Is what he is doing with YOU working for you? If so, does it matter what he is doing with someone else— or is that insecurity?
Don't you think that's a bit... bizarre?

I have every right to be uncomfortable with how someone else lives their life.

I have every right to ask that they change.

I have every right to withdraw if we can't find compromise.

Damning someone else's feelings as immaturity ("insecurity") seems unproductive at best.
 
Most people want to at least be acknowledged. My wife and I had a "rule". Never pretend the other does not exist. It's disrespectful to both partners. I would not consider that insecurity at all.
 
I agree I have no right to decide what happens when he is with her and I don't interfere. If I know he is seeing her, I give space, I don't text or call.

Fair enough.

What I do expect though is that we both respect the boundaries we both agreed on and if something isn't working for either of us or we want to change the boundaries, that we take an upfront discussion about it, no lies.

Reasonable expectation in his relationship with YOU. He made agreements. He could keep by them, or give you a heads up that they no longer work for him and he wants to renegotiate. Both demonstrate respectful behavior toward you.

It is a fair expectation that if HE AGREED of his own free will, he could keep his Word. Presumably he himself knows what he can/cannot do. Otherwise he could refrain from making any agreements and say "No, I cannot agree to do that."

As I have been told by him that I am the primary and she is the secondary, is it so awful for me to expect that his actions match his words?

He didn't have to agree to practice this model -- primary-secondary.

If that is what he agreed to? He could deliver.

If finds he cannot, or he finds that agreement no longer works? It is reasonable to expect him to give you a heads up. He can ask to renegotiate. Because you cannot be a mind reader.

He could not be going around saying one thing and doing another.

I would not call you insecure. I would call the situation unstable. Because who can date with trust/confidence if the dating partner is basically being flaky with their Word, cannot be relied on, etc?

Galagirl
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and for taking the time to reply. I asked for others' opinions because that is what I truly wanted, I wasn't looking for sympathy so I appreciate every opinion.

It has definitely been a journey for me and I feel like I have grown a lot along the way. I have had to look at myself and question not only some of my feelings but why I am feeling them.

As some have said, perhaps he should have every right to have co-primaries and pursue love with someone else but I am not there, nor do I know if I want to be. If that is insecurity so be it. At the end of the day, it goes against what we had agreed together and if the boundaries are no longer working for one of us, I don't think a don't-ask-don't-tell policy does anything to create the trust needed for a sustainable relationship.

I spoke with my partner, let's call him "C", yesterday. He has even kept his friend's identity a secret from me, even giving her a false name..... I have known who she really is for a long time. (I have been very open about my secondary and not created false names.) When I spoke with C yesterday I told him I know who she is. He thought I was bluffing but I told him her full name and he was shocked. His reaction was "but you haven't contacted her or tried to stir up trouble". Of course not, why would I do that, that would be disrespectful to him and to her.

C then told me he has never felt as close to any woman as he did to me in that moment. Again, to me, that was just strange and I am still processing what that says about him, his experiences, his values.

To answer the question of whether I have fond feelings for my friend. Absolutely I do, but as a friend who I enjoy a sexual relationship with. I would feel sad to give him up but if C started to feel uncomfortable with my secondary relationship and there was no way to solve it, I would prioritise my relationship with C over my secondary friendship (or at least I would have previously but now I am leaning toward the belief that without trust there is no relationship with C).
 
He has even kept his friend's identity a secret from me, even giving her a false name..... I have known who she really is for a long time. (I have been very open about my secondary and not created false names.) When I spoke with C yesterday I told him I know who she is. He thought I was bluffing but I told him her full name and he was shocked. His reaction was "but you haven't contacted her or tried to stir up trouble". Of course not, why would I do that, that would be disrespectful to him and to her.

C then told me he has never felt as close to any woman as he did to me in that moment. Again, to me, that was just strange and I am still processing what that says about him, his experiences, his values.

What? :confused:

He has a habit of keeping things hidden from you. Now he learns that you've been keeping something hidden from him -- that you have known all this time who she is.

And THIS is what he bonds over? The keeping things hidden? The not being up front? He's never felt closer to you until he could relate to you as (another person who withholds information)?

Too weird for me.

If he's just telling you what he thinks you want to hear ("I've never felt so close to you!") to get you to keep sticking around even though he's been breaking agreements and you called him on it? Meh. I don't care for wheedling and being buttered up to get me to overlook poor behavior.

I would want to relate more authentically, more honestly, more up front than any of what he seems to be offering.

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl, I'm inclined to agree with you. To me it's weird that the first place his mind would go is "if she knows who my friend is she will sabotage things." i have never objected to him seeing her. I have objected to the lies and the fact that I was being kept hidden from her like I am some dirty little secret.
 
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