Thinking of buying book called "What do Women Want?" for my girlfriend

Err.. what's wrong with "other cultures do it." It pretty clearly points out how much power society has over a persons beliefs and behavior.

That said: Incest? Really? I vaguely remember from my anthropology class that incest was one of the few universal taboos we know about. Universal taboo meaning that no culture/society allows it. In fact, the theory behind incest being a universal taboo is that there IS something in our nature that prevents it.

Definition of incest specifically?
Someone on fb recently described 1st cousins together as incest. However-in our state, 1st cousins can legally marry and have children it is NOT considered incest.

This would be a good example of different cultures having different definitions and therefore different expectations.

Some cultures consider it incest for an older relative to marry a younger relative-but other cultures see nothing wrong with marrying a man in his 50s to a child in their early teens-and often they are related in some manner (uncle/niece or 2nd cousins etc).
 
I would focus less on this book and whether or not it will get you closer to accomplishing your plan than I would focus on being honest with my partner.

Have you spoken with her about wanting an open relationship (or whatever it is that you are gunning for)? Has she requested that you find a good book for her? If you have talked with her unambiguously about what you want and she has requested that you do some research for her (which would tell me that she's not actually that interested) then so be it:

I have not read that particular book.

If you haven't spoken with her about it and she thus has not asked you to do research for her... what exactly is your plan? You going to slip it under her pillow and play dumb?

Long story short, it came up two years ago... she said it was a dealbreaker but we stayed together because neither of us were ready to break up. We had a fight a couple months ago, and we've been estranged since but we live together so we go back and forth between trying to put distance between ourtselves and trying to hold each other. It's... difficult and depressing. Thing is, she keeps saying she wants marriage but she won't even consider an open relationship... which makes me feel a little bit like she doesn't care about me. Also, part of the "pushing me away" thing is that she doesn't want to have sex because she feels it should only be for a relationship with a future. Of course, she's been ok with that for the past two years... but I think part of her hangup is what society says about sex. The other thing is she doesn't seem at all bothered by cheating in fiction, for instance she loves Don Draper on Mad Men. She's also had dreams where we'd be together while she was dating someone else... so a part of me at least wants to believe there's some part of her that is poly, but won't admit it because of how society views things.

Anyway... yeah, she knows but she isn't willing to go for it. But isn't willing to truly part ways either. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I guess I was hoping this book would help somehow.

This post was written while slightly inebriated by the way... so please forgive bad grammar and run-on sentences.
 
Well, that must mean nearly everyone is okay with murder, right? I mean, a lot of heroes, anti-heroes and antagonists outright murder in fiction. Heck, Lolita is a classic. If your logic of wanting to do what protagonists do is correct, all literature teachers would likely have been incarcerated by now.

What makes you think she is not just mono, that she KNOWS what she wants? What makes you realize she might be open to the idea, rather then being unable to detach herself from someone she cares for so cleanly?

As for the sex? I'd advise not pushing it. You won't win much sympathy from her for asking her for it. Let her get comfortable first.
 
What makes you think she is not just mono, that she KNOWS what she wants? What makes you realize she might be open to the idea, rather then being unable to detach herself from someone she cares for so cleanly?

Hate to say it OP, but CB here has hit the nail right on the head.

She has told you unambiguously that she is monogamous and that polyamory is a deal breaker. This is a boundary she has clearly defined and explicitly informed you of.

Stop trying to trick her into believing something that you believe. If you actually do care about her and not just about how you imagine she could be as a poly, then respect her clearly defined boundaries and stop playing games with her. She's monogamous, dude, deal with it.
 
reformalion eprefus

Hate to say it OP, but CB here has hit the nail right on the head.

She has told you unambiguously that she is monogamous and that polyamory is a deal breaker. This is a boundary she has clearly defined and explicitly informed you of.

Stop trying to trick her into believing something that you believe. If you actually do care about her and not just about how you imagine she could be as a poly, then respect her clearly defined boundaries and stop playing games with her. She's monogamous, dude, deal with it.

Trick her? How is giving someone a book tricking them? Guess I need to go have a few discussions with my schoolteachers! ;)

Anyway, something interesting came up over the weekend. Created a different thread though since this one is pretty much hosed: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48883



CreepingButtercup: Sorry if my reply came off as contentious. I had been drinking and arguing with my gf right before I posted. I shouldn't drink and internet! ;)
 
Trick her? How is giving someone a book tricking them? Guess I need to go have a few discussions with my schoolteachers! ;)

So you equate your relationship with her to your relationship as a teacher to a student?

She has made her views abundantly clear, you are trying to find a book which will erode a particular aspect of you believe her views are in an effort to get her to change her views to suit your preference. If she hasn't requested that you get her new information so that you can convince her to change her worldview then I would say, sure, you're trying to "trick" her. If that word in particular bothers you than we can use another, how about "manipulate"? We could spin off into a semantic debate or just address the actual topic.
 
So you equate your relationship with her to your relationship as a teacher to a student?

That was kind of a joke dude... lighten up.

She has made her views abundantly clear, you are trying to find a book which will erode a particular aspect of you believe her views are in an effort to get her to change her views to suit your preference. If she hasn't requested that you get her new information so that you can convince her to change her worldview then I would say, sure, you're trying to "trick" her. If that word in particular bothers you than we can use another, how about "manipulate"? We could spin off into a semantic debate or just address the actual topic.

Ok look, I'm never going to agree that presenting someone with new information is manipulating them, tricking them or anything else. It isn't. I'm presenting some information and letting her make a decision based on it. I might hope it's the decision I want, but that isn't manipulation.
 
Showing her something that illustrates your POV is not manipulation; it's trying to create a bridge that maybe helps her understand you better, and that's not a bad thing. However, when you phrase it like this:

thinking that just introducing her to the idea that a lot of how she sees sex is due to societal pressure could be a good first step

It seems to me that maybe you should try to do the same and accept that her POV may not strictly be ignorance or conditioning.
 
"Presenting new information" in a pushy way could be called "ramming propaganda down someone's throat" if said information is part of an agenda AND unwelcomed by the targeted recipient.

I'm not saying this is what you're doing, but this is ONE way of putting it.
 
"Presenting new information" in a pushy way could be called "ramming propaganda down someone's throat" if said information is part of an agenda AND unwelcomed by the targeted recipient.

I'm not saying this is what you're doing, but this is ONE way of putting it.

I'm not locking her in a room and blasting stuff through speakers. I'm handing her a book, to read or even not read as she chooses.
 
I'm not locking her in a room and blasting stuff through speakers. I'm handing her a book, to read or even not read as she chooses.


ok, fine then.

but don't you think she could "choose" to go get the book herself if she wanted to read it? I'm not much for reading things other people recommend unless I'm already interested to some extent. There are so many things I AM interested in, that I wouldn't bother wasting time reading something just because it is going to help them get something they want from me that I am not prepared to give.

If she handed you a book about monogamous relationships, would you read it because it might open your mind?

If you hand me a book by Rush Limbaugh, do you think I won't laugh my ass off at you?
 
ok, fine then.

but don't you think she could "choose" to go get the book herself if she wanted to read it?

Maybe. If she's even heard of it.

I'm not much for reading things other people recommend unless I'm already interested to some extent.

You're not her. She does tend to read things people give to her. Although she's never read anything I've given her for some reason. (Not other books like this, just anything.)

If she handed you a book about monogamous relationships, would you read it because it might open your mind?

Yes. Actually, I'd read it to prove that it won't "open my mind"... but I'd still read it. :p

If you hand me a book by Rush Limbaugh, do you think I won't laugh my ass off at you?

A fried of hers once gave her a book on how aliens were the real god. Not Scientology, but something similar. She read it.

Just sayin'... Not everyone is you. :p
 
"Everyone is not me" ORLY?

:rolleyes
Just sayin'... Not everyone is you. :p

:rolleyes:

OMG REALLY??? Thanks for telling me! You just opened my mind! I thought EVERYONE was EXACTLY LIKE ME. I was WRONG. You SAVED me from MYSELF. I could have CONTINUED to go through life this way but now I WON'T!


^^ this is what you expect your girlfriend to say about poly.

Your answer(s), or lack thereof, continue to support my theory that you are here fishing for feedback that says, "Your girlfriend does sound like she's poly deep-down inside somewhere after all, and all you need to do is support and encourage her toward that, and things will work out eventually". And you're NOT GETTING IT.

It is YOU who doesn't "get it". NOT HER.

Denial is not a river in Europe. That's right - Europe.
 
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My interpretation: You are poly. She is not. You wish to continue your relationship with her, but she doesn't want to do poly. Right so far?

There's a book you've come across about poly being more natural for women and a woman's sex drive being manipulated by culture and society. You'd like her to read it and see if it opened her mind.

My issue with this: The book you have given her (from your brief description) doesn't sound like a book that could bring her around to being able to deal with YOU being poly, instead it sounds like a book to try and convince her that it would be natural for HER to be poly. Whether or not she is poly isn't the issue, it's whether or not you being poly is a hard limit for her.

If anything, giving her a book that says it's more natural for women to be poly than men could end up with her turning that round on you. She might end up saying that if it's more natural for women to be poly and she isn't, than surely you, with it being less natural, could try not being poly? That, of course, is an extreme scenario. I'm just saying that if you have any agenda behind giving her the book (i.e. wanting the experience to open her mind to poly), this sort of book could backfire. Perhaps a different book that's based more on understanding possible methods of becoming comfortable with poly in a partner would be more useful (I don't know any myself but I've seen a lot of book/website recommendations on here in the past and I'm sure someone would push you in the right direction if you asked)
 
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Indeed, if the OP wants to keep this relationship going because the good outweighs the bad or whatever, then he should be prepared to live it monogamous until when/if SHE decides she wants things otherwise.
 
It's kind of like what atheists do to theists; they think if they just read this thing that Dawkins or some other dude wrote, they can make you realise that there is no God. Someone can be equally as educated as you and still choose to believe differently.
 
It's kind of like what atheists do to theists;

Haha... or theists to atheists? At least athiests don't knock on your door... although it would be fun to swap out the bible in hotel rooms with a copy of "On the Origin of Species." ;)

they think if they just read this thing that Dawkins or some other dude wrote, they can make you realise that there is no God. Someone can be equally as educated as you and still choose to believe differently.

True, but they can also be more educated and not know something I do. It's kind of a moot point now, but there are plenty of people on these forums who learned about polyamory and then realized they liked the idea... hell, I didn't like the idea at first myself. Once I started reading about it, I found myself agreeing with everything...

Side Note: Ugh... does there really need to be a CAPTCHA for every single post? Why not just on login?
 
I'm not a fan of evangelism of any stripe - Poly, atheist, religious, you name it. If it's important to you, and you want me to learn about it BECAUSE of that? Great. I love getting to know people better.

If you instead want to pull me aside and "tell me about <x>" because it's so wonderful and you need to spread the word to the uninformed masses who only need to be shown the "one true way"? Gick. No thanks. I'll learn about it on my own without the proselytizing and make my own decision.

It may result in the same thing (me learning about something), but it really is the difference between "here's what I believe" and "here's something that shows you that what you believe is wrong."
 
There's a difference in how you approach people is all it boils down to. People that come to my door with their inspirational messages? Well let's just say the family now tries to beat me to the door so I don't have to tell them what I really think. You want to live your life according to your beliefs and are a good example and in such share with me favorite passages or sayings or stuff you learned great! (I still think it should be illegal to pimp out children door to door for your religion, but I digress)

You are poly, you want your partner to accept this, nothing new there. Can not COUNT how many intros I have seen here and on lists that boil down to, "How do I get my partner to LET ME be poly?"

Here's the thing, trying to prove it's fine, it's acceptable, or even it's superior and more natural is NOT the way to go. It's condescending and is just going to put backs up! Instead, try saying, "Hey, I know this isn't for you, I know you dont' want any part of this but the truth is poly is who I AM, even if it's not what I do. So I read this book, and it really helped me put things into perspective. If you would like to read it I think it would do a better job explaining how I feel than I seem to be able to. Totally up to you and if you want we can even read it together and I want you to ask questions. I don't want this to be some scary unknown for you. So no matter what decision we make for our relationship, this could help you understand me better."

Wordy yes but a much better approach.
 
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