Sorry about that -- we were cross posting earlier. But thanks for the additional info.
I think S2 is probably where you could focus your energy right now. Deal with one partner at a time. With him you know some stuff already.
Since he's asked for direction from you, could you tell him you want him to do this with you? Check in and check out before and after sex? Maybe you make a cute printable together and put it by the bed to remind you both of this new habit you are trying to make?
Like I said above, we wouldn't be able to put anything anywhere because of Spikes and Beads. He doesn't have privacy, except in the bathroom, when they're with him, because of the size of his apartment. I could ask him about doing the check-ins, but printing anything and leaving it as a reminder wouldn't be possible.
I'm only at his place twice a week... overnight twice a month. I'm not able to leave anything at his place; he panicked when I asked if I could stash my spare toothbrush in one of his bathroom drawers after the second time I unexpectedly had to spend the night there due to my car breaking down. He only let me leave my bass guitar there because the boys do know we're working on music together, and it was easier than me carrying the bass back and forth.
Sounds like S2 could be up for texture play and you know that now. Are you up for that? If so...Go around the house collecting things that could work. Something fuzzy, something hard. Something cold like a metal spoon. Something warm like a fleece scarf. Clothes pins. Low tack painter masking tape. Maybe you have a slithery necklace chain. Or one of those balls with pointy nubs.
Whatever you have. Show him the collection so he can pull out what looks interesting. Then play with it together.
What's the cold thing like on his back? On yours? Scratch him lightly with a pencil or fork. What's that like? Bite his toes. Stuff like that.
I've never heard of texture play, though your post gives me enough context to guess what it is. Playing with anything at all is another issue, since one of the first things Hubby got judgmental about was me asking him to use my vibrator on me. I have trouble even admitting to either of them that I *own* a vibrator. Though that said, I bought a small flogger and S2 and I did use it once, not for flogging (because that would violate agreements I have with Hubby) but for tickling. Specifically him tickling me; he didn't seem okay with the idea of me returning the favor.
S2 also has on his dating site profile that he's turned on by the idea of tying a woman to his bed and using vibrating toys on her, and when I asked him about that he said he put it on there after I told him that's one of my "things"... a conversation I completely do not remember having with him. I don't doubt that we had the conversation, because that *is* something I'd be into; I just don't remember having it. (I have memory issues because of fibromyalgia; this wouldn't be the first time I completely blanked on a conversation that took place.)
The biggest problem with anything like that with him is the severe limits on our time together. I see him every Tuesday and every other Thursday; those nights, we only have 3-4 hours together. By the time we've had supper and he's unwound from work, and given that he likes long cuddling sessions after sex, we might have about 30 minutes to do anything sexual. If that. That isn't enough time for me to even work up the nerve to suggest trying something, let alone actually trying it.
I'm usually with him every other weekend, and sometimes we have a bit more time then, but that isn't happening this month. And for the past few months, on the weekends I'm there, we've only had sex on Sunday mornings right after we wake up, when there isn't time (or inclination, since I'm still half asleep) to try anything new.
If you are not up for sensory play or in addition to sensory play...
Could you write him a note asking him if he's willing to do that checklist of activities for you so you can know what else he kinda likes the idea of? And show him your list? Or do it together?
Maybe. I did that with Hubby at one point and it worked... until he decided he didn't want to be "constricted" by lists.
I think at this time you need to have a few good experiences where...
- you know it's on his "doable" list, and you asking to do it later
- it is received well and you guys try it.
- Then you guys decide if it was fun (for one time only) or if it is (a repeat thing.)
- And it isn't the end of the world.
The whole "bubble" of that experience (even if the thing ends up as a one off) was
positive. Help you relax a bit with asking him to explore with you.
I agree with this, it's just trying to figure out how to make it happen.
Or since you were willing to masturbate on the phone with the friend... could you be willing to masturbate while S2 watches? Or he masturbates? Masturbate each other?
I kind of want to type "no" in full caps to that... The phone masturbation thing happened a few months after I left my ex, during the time when I was experimenting and exploring and was more comfortable with doing sexual things. Nowadays the thought of touching myself at all with either guy present elicits pretty strong negative reactions.
Hubby will sometimes ask me to touch my breasts when he's giving me oral, or tell me to play with my clit when he's sucking my breasts, usually in a D/s situation. I feel uncomfortable, awkward as hell, and it usually completely kills the mood, particularly since in our early days together I asked if he would want to watch me masturbate, and he said "Why would I want to do that when I can touch you myself?"
I know you're talking about doing that with S2, not Hubby, but given Hubby's initial reaction to the suggestion and the horrible way I feel when we do it now, I wouldn't even want to try with S2.
What do you need from yourself to give yourself permission to let the fear go? Permission to lay some of those "ghost voices" to rest? Permission for You to be in charge of you and your choices, rather than the ghost memory voices telling you what you should and should not do?
You might bring that up with the counselor -- how to let go of "should voices" -- that's a cognitive distortion they might have more experience dealing with.
You might also explore what maintaining the fear does for you with the counselor. What does it keep you safe from?
I have no idea. I've been trying to let go of those voices and the fear for nearly a decade now. Every time I make progress, something sets me back. In part, I think it's because Hubby is still one of my sex partners, and he's the one of the people whose judgment was most damaging to me because he promised me he *wouldn't* judge and then broke the promise. So it was a double betrayal, and I still have to deal with it because I still have to deal with him.
With the counselor, it isn't so much fear as that I'm not comfortable with her. We've only had one actual session--this morning--and half of it was taken up by her interrupting me in the middle of trying to explain things to tell me what *she* thought I was saying, followed by me finally losing my patience and telling her that if she wasn't going to let me even finish a sentence, I didn't see how she thought she could help me. She apologized, but by then the session was nearly over.
I get that you fear being judged, but then you say your current guys are not judgmental. So it's cannot be only "judgement" in the fear bucket. There's also fear memory voices in the bucket. What else is in there? Are you able to articulate it? Then perhaps you can get that met in another way while letting go of the fear?
The memory voices *are* judgment... I'm not quite sure I understand what you're getting at here. And Hubby *is* judgmental, he just tries not to be anymore. But since he has been in the past, there's a pretty strong likelihood that he would be again, at least in my perception. Fear of Hubby's judgment is based on the reality of having been judged by him before.
Unfortunately, and I realize this is a big problem, S2 is paying for Hubby's actions. I trusted Hubby not to be judgmental or negative and he was; I believed his promise that he wouldn't judge me and he broke the promise. Therefore, I don't trust S2 not to be judgmental even though--or maybe because--he made the same promise.
Could reading this about
jealousy pie help? Only make it be "fear pie" and divide it up to see what parts of the fear pie are from what? Maybe the counselor can help you with that.
Right now, based on the session I've had with her, I'm questioning whether the counselor can help me at all. But as far as I can tell, *all* of the fear is based on judgment and rejection.
Maybe divide some of the tasks to stuff you can do on your own now (like suggesting texture play with S2) and stuff you want to spend more time digesting with the counselor first (like the shouldn't voice memories.)
I'm not able right now to suggest the texture play, because of time and fear.
Hang in there! Again... take it at a speed you can deal in.
Galagirl
Thanks.