Mono husband poly wife with a married couple

I hope this who post can help others as they go down the Rabbit hole!!

I have never experienced so many different emotions with others working out what we all want in such a short time ( A few days). I had zero knowledge on this subject just a few days ago and with all your help i have been able to navigate the water much easier...

I knew it wouldn't be easy but we shall carry on!

So just to clear some things up i see now laying down the law was not the right way to go about it and have since rectified it. (Hey! its a learning curve).
Greg and Peaches are indeed playing casually with Alice! (keep up people lol) however Cupcake and i suspect Greg and Alice have a Romantic emotional attachment to each other. Also i was dead wrong about being one big Poly happy family! this is not as serious as that, it is more playtime for us 4 and a see how it goes with Greg and Cupcake. I have identified my self as definitely happy with cupcake and more than happy for her to have an emotional attachment to Greg or relationship. We have all discussed that's about as far as it goes at this stage, Peaches and i are more than happy for them to Date so we give our consent to that.

It's all in a state of flux and someone earlier suggested but its a good start! as for Peaches and i she is like me just into non monogamy and we don't see each other as getting involved in a relationship together, just happy to stay close friends and support our partners. give them space etc.

However.. that being said we do have adult tendencies if you catch my drift and when Liquor is often involved Cupcake and i feel if 2 want to play we all play. Is that such a bad thing as long as we have no regrets?

There is no forcing anyone to play, we choose to go into this (What ever it is or becomes) cleanly with honest and open communication and Cupcake is aware of my post and knows she can read anytime :)

I wanna be real honest with you guys so i may have left 2 details out of the scenario as i thought it might be over sharing at the time but can see it's probably important if i want honest constructive feedback..

1- Greg and Peaches have marital issues they are working thru, they don't wish to break up their family but do argue more than Cupcake and i ever would. Greg has a few emo issues and a part time drinking problem hes getting help with.
I have cautioned this to cupcake as ideally i'd like for Greg and Peaches to have a rock solid relationship but as its all new and exciting out in the open now (No longer cheating) so she wants to keep things slow and see how it goes and also the 3 month break was for all of us to clear our heads and in that time Cupcake and i have moved house some long distance away but it may only be for a few years (work purposes). We only get to see Peaches and Greg 4-5 times a year.

Few thoughts - After Greg/Peaches dropped the bombshell that they are sleeping with another woman (Alice) Cupcake feels she has been replaced and can't fathom being 3rd in a relationship with Greg, he does not see it that way tho..he admits he loves her but in a different way i just don't want cupcake to get hurt. Cupcake can be the jealous type and is already getting teary when Greg admits he spends a lot of time with Alice.

We are already planning a trip over their way soon so we can all sit down together and talk face to face and whilst over there i'd like Greg and Cupcake to go out on a date for the first time as they haven't had that chance.
 
Let me repeat all that back so I know I get it how you mean it, ok? Correct me if anything is wrong.

  • Mmmdonuts. This is you.

  • Cupcake. This is your wife. You want to share love with only her.

  • Greg + Peaches. This is a married couple you guys are friends with that you are currently in negotiations with to be "something more" after a cheating start (Cupcake + Greg)

  • Alice. Peaches and Greg's other partner. (Also started out from Greg cheating with Alice or not? Or started on the level?)

  • You and Cupcake are aware that Peaches and Greg share sex with Alice. (Either separately and/or as group sex.)
  • Is Alice being made aware that the grouping might be changing yet again because Greg and Peaches are negotiating with you and Cupcake? What are her agreements with Peaches and Greg? Peaches and Greg aren't cheating on any agreements with Alice right? In their agreements with her, they can pursue others? Alice has her own right to informed consent so she can know how to best manage her sex health.

  • You are up for sharing sex with just Cupcake, just Peaches, or in a group sex situation with (you, Cupcake, Greg, Peaches.)

  • You give Greg and Cupcake your blessing/goodwill to date and explore sharing love and sex together.
  • Peaches gives Greg and Cupcake her blessing/goodwill to date and explore sharing love and sex together.
  • So if Alice is aware and it doesn't clash any agreements she has with Peaches and Greg, everyone is being up front and nobody is cheating on any agreements with anyone else. Right?


However.. that being said we do have adult tendencies if you catch my drift and when Liquor is often involved Cupcake and i feel if 2 want to play we all play. Is that such a bad thing as long as we have no regrets?

Only share sex SOBER. If you have a player who is a recovering alcoholic, don't be making things harder on the man. And because of cheating recovery and other problems, just leave booze out in general. Poor decisions were made in past, don't need booze fueling NEW poor decisions.

Stop with "catch my drift" communication. Esp if you are in negotiations. Lay it on the table PLAIN.

What is the purpose of this agreement? I would say the two who want to play in this consenting network -- go share sex then. I don't necessarily want to participate in group sex. I would not agree to something like that.

I don't want my saying "No, thanks. I would rather read a book" cause them to build resentments like I am preventing them from sharing sex. When I'm simply exercising my autonomy/agency over my body. I share my body with who I want when I want. I don't want to "have to" participate just because two other people are horny and I agreed to something like that.

Do Peaches and Greg share in this agreement? What about Alice? Would she love that Greg has to get it up for group sex with (you, Cupcake, Peaches and him) just because you and Peaches want to hook up?

Greg and Peaches have marital issues they are working thru, they don't wish to break up their family but do argue more than Cupcake and i ever would. Greg has a few emo issues and a part time drinking problem he's getting help with.

I have cautioned this to cupcake as ideally i'd like for Greg and Peaches to have a rock solid relationship but as its all new and exciting out in the open now (No longer cheating) so she wants to keep things slow and see how it goes and also the 3 month break was for all of us to clear our heads and in that time Cupcake and i have moved house some long distance away but it may only be for a few years (work purposes). We only get to see Peaches and Greg 4-5 times a year.


Are you saying something like...

"I know Greg and Peaches are messy people right now because that have marriage issues to work through and Greg is also coping emo problems and with alcoholism. But since we live far away, and only see them like 4-5 times a year, we're willing to take up with messy people because it's not like dating them up close. So whatever problems, we can go home and leave them to it."​

I have a personal boundary of not getting involved with messy people. I prefer they get themselves together and become healthy first before offering themselves as a dating partner, swing partner, etc. Especially if there were cheating beginnings.

So to me? Even if a long distance thing? I would rather wait til they have it together. Way easier to find already healthy people to date to me.

Second best choice would be to go REALLY slow and not leap into sex share or love share with these people. Leave this trip only for talking. Another trip for other stuff later depending on how this trip goes.

After Greg/Peaches dropped the bombshell that they are sleeping with another woman (Alice) Cupcake feels she has been replaced and can't fathom being 3rd in a relationship with Greg. He does not see it that way tho. He admits he loves her but in a different way. i just don't want cupcake to get hurt. Cupcake can be the jealous type and is already getting teary when Greg admits he spends a lot of time with Alice.

Sounds like Cupcake is up for being someone's LDR secondary, but not up for being someone's LDR tertiary. If that is that case, she might have to say "Thank you for considering negotiations. I find we aren't compatible after all."

(And what's why I asked earlier what happens if one partner wants to go there, and the other one does not. If you still want to take up with Greg and Peaches and Cupcake doesn't want to, then what?

And if so... how's that "2 want to play so all 4 play" gonna feel then? )

Was Alice another cheating affair partner of Greg's? Are there any more lurking?

Cupcake may be feeling upset that she wasn't "the special one." Sometimes a person can be willing to go along with cheating because they are made to think/feel like they are this one exceptional person, the game changing person. If they find out that they are one in a string.... that's going to feel yucky. Like maybe they got love bombed and used.

That's why in an earlier post I asked about Greg's trustworthiness. If he's willing to (cheat on agreements with Peaches) with Cupcake as the cheating parnter, what makes Cupcake think he won't (cheat on agreements with Cupcake) with others? What makes you think Greg will make poly agreements with you, and won't cheat on them? Poly isn't automatically "cheat proof."

If anything it bigger cheating because then you have these poly agreements with your poly grouping. And when you cheat on the agreements, it dings more people. Where cheating before would ding Peaches? Now it dings her and all the rest of the grouping.

I want to point out that the grouping is not

[ (You + Cupcake) + (Peaches + Greg)]

but

[ (You + Cupcake) + (Peaches + Greg + Alice)]

Don't just assume that Peaches and Greg have agreements with Alice where any of them can seek out other partners for dating or for casual sex. Actually ASK. If Greg and Peaches have Closed agreements with Alice, negotiating with you two is them cheating on their agreements .

We are already planning a trip over their way soon so we can all sit down together and talk face to face and whilst over there i'd like Greg and Cupcake to go out on a date for the first time as they haven't had that chance.

You can let her know she has your blessing to date. But that is not up to you. That is up to Cupcake.

I would imagine Cupcake would want to sort out her feelings about being Greg's LDR tertiary partner before asking him out on any dates. She may decide she only wants to visit this trip and talk things out first. Especially if you guys just learned about the existence of Alice and if Cupcake is struggling with Alice jealousy/envy. Could sort all that out first and plan a second trip later for dating if things clear up and align ok.

Don't be so eager to jump in that you put cart before horse. Or be creating a sense of "false urgency" like "Trips are expensive! So I have to crowd it all in on this trip!"

Galagirl
 
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Pfffwooaaar that's a lot to take in.. I'll digest it and post back soon. This is all happening very quick. Much appreciated tho
 
Take your time.

If this is too quick for you... trips and whatnot? You guys could slow stuff down even more.

We are already planning a trip over their way soon so we can all sit down together and talk face to face and whilst over there i'd like Greg and Cupcake to go out on a date for the first time as they haven't had that chance.

That can still happen over Skype for instance. WITHOUT the expense of a trip at this time.

Galagirl
 
Few things i wanted to answer

There's no ensuring that *greg* will always want to keep his relationship with your wife as a secondary relationship
Yeah i tend to agree, i honestly don't think i have blinkers on for my wife i truly believe that she will always want me as primary and that she has told him in the cheating phase of all this when hes questioned that to get stuffed.

It sounds like there is a lot of innuendo and flirting and "maybe we can swing as a foursome, maybe not." It sounds like Peaches might like swinging but isn't attracted to you. There is also the factor that all your kids have become close friends...

Yes this is indeed the case but Greg and cupcake want more and now have our consent but we will always put the kids first.

I recommend Franklin Veaux's Poly FAQ page, it will help you to decide if you're 100% happy to pursue poly.

Thanks i found this to be an invaluable resource and are keen to continue.

Quote:
when all together we have a Rule that if 2 want to play we all play?
The purpose of this agreement is what? Can't the 2 that want to play just go play on their own?
and
You can let her know she has your blessing to date. But that is not up to you. That is up to Cupcake

Ok i'm confused am as her husband not able to decide and agree with her what soft and hard limits should be in respect to my feelings or should i just let her be Adult and let her go explore perhaps? I thought this was a consensual thing? .. or am i reading into this wrong. (I want to get it right)

I would imagine Cupcake would want to sort out her feelings about being Greg's LDR tertiary partner before asking him out on any dates. She may decide she only wants to visit this trip and talk things out first. Especially if you guys just learned about the existence of Alice and if Cupcake is struggling with Alice jealousy/envy. Could sort all that out first and plan a second trip later for dating if things clear up and align ok

Yup Her and Greg are working on it to get it sorted before we visit.

The trip away is for other purposes not just to see them, family shopping and a break from where we live.

That can still happen over Skype for instance. WITHOUT the expense of a trip at this time.

No i disagree , i give Cupcake my full support for her and Greg to have a Date night. They need it , need to spend time getting to know each other intimately kid free, alone and not time constraint. Who doesn't love going on a date! :) however It does seem odd to me that i'm happy to set this up i don't understand why.. its all new to me but i know i'm totally in love with her and to see her so happy and fulfilled makes me happy. Sex and us communicating has been so much better since the NRE kicked in for her it's been Amazing! and Yes i was fulfilled emotionally and sexually with her before the NRE, This has just been icing on the cake but this had lead too another problem for her , she has had fleeting moments of feeling guilty as shit for feeling the way she does, like shes a bad person i reassure her that i'm happy tho and really want to give this a shot.

Another element i want to share and flesh out is that all us 4 genuinely miss our close friendship we had, we had something very special and the kids are just the best and get along really great. As friends we have had many great times, Cupcake and i really miss that Energy. Problem is Greg and cupcake know that they can't be left alone and want something more. Remember that they do love each other very much we want to keep exploring that in a open way.

Another question i have is

Is it Ok if Cupcake wants to lean on my shoulder from time to time about issues her and Greg have trying to flesh this all out, i really don't mind but iv'e had her in my arms in tears already about Greg and Alice one time. Is that pretty normal behavior?

Lastly i'm happy with a the pace its going, our trip over their way isn't for a few weeks yet and i'd like to clear the air before we get in touch face to face. The electronic communication going back and forth can be a challenge we are working on quiet times, and when cupcake can have some time to phone Greg and ask how his day is for example.

Remember this is all new for us so keep that in mind y'all
 
I honestly don't think I have blinkers on for my wife. I truly believe that she will always want me as primary. She has told him, in the cheating phase of all this, when he's questioned that, to get stuffed.

...Greg and Cupcake want more, and now have our consent. But we will always put the kids first.

OK, I'm confused. Am I as her husband not able to decide and agree with her what soft and hard limits should be in respect to my feelings? Or should I just let her be "adult" and let her go explore perhaps? I thought this was a consensual thing? Or am I reading into this wrong? (I want to get it right.)

It's a matter of negotiation. You can both submit to each other your desires, hard and soft limits. But you can only REQUEST the other agree to what you wish. Then they can consent or not. Joyful consent is required. Lukewarm consent just to stop the conversation and pain isn't true consent.


I give Cupcake my full support for her and Greg to have a date night. They need it, need to spend time getting to know each other intimately, kid free, alone, with no time constraint. Who doesn't love going on a date? :)

However, it does seem odd to me that I'm happy to set this up. I don't understand why. It's all new to me. But I know I'm totally in love with her, and to see her so happy and fulfilled makes me happy.

There you have it. Love for her leads you to feel happy for her happiness. In poly circles, this is called compersion.

Sex and us communicating has been so much better since the NRE kicked in for her. It's been amazing! And yes, I was fulfilled emotionally and sexually with her before the NRE. This has just been icing on the cake.

Since you came from a swinging attitude, besides compersion, you might have voyeuristic and cuckolding fetishes which are also gratified by the knowledge of Cupcake's sexual affection for, and activities with, Greg.

But this had lead to another problem for her. She has had fleeting moments of feeling guilty as shit for feeling the way she does, like she's a bad person. I reassure her that I'm happy tho, and really want to give this a shot.

This is very common with newly poly people. We are all programmed by our society to believe monogamy is the only "good" way to do relationships. You get over it with practice.

Another element I want to share and flesh out is that all 4 of us genuinely miss the close friendship we had. We had something very special, and the kids are just the best, and get along really great. As friends we have had many great times. Cupcake and I really miss that energy. Problem is, Greg and Cupcake know that they can't be left alone and want something more. Remember that they do love each other very much. We want to keep exploring that in a open way.

I'm sure they are in early stages of love, or lust, infatuation, NRE. However, from here, I find Greg to be a problematic partner since he is a binge drinker. Don't you? I know some very sweet alcoholics, but they can tend to make bad decisions sometimes, or even become a burden, if the problem increases over time. Aren't you two concerned? Or is it just all fun and tipsy games when you 4 are together? Just having fun in the present with never a thought for tomorrow?

Unlike GalaGirl did, I feel I have no right to say to you (plural you), "Only share sex SOBER." But it's tough on an alcoholic to drink with others who aren't alcoholics. They can't regulate their drinking.

It's up to Cupcake, however, to decide to get further involved with an alcoholic.

Is it OK if Cupcake wants to lean on my shoulder from time to time about issues she and Greg have trying to flesh this all out? I really don't mind. I've had her in my arms in tears already about Greg and Alice one time. Is that pretty normal behavior?

If you're OK with it, it's fine. You can support her as much as you wish on her relationship rollercoaster. But if it gets to be too much for you, do let her know. She can get counseling from friends, a therapist, or a board like this, or this actual board, the place you sought for support. My partner doesn't come to this board though, she leaves it for me as my own special support area. She never reads my posts. But that's totally up to you two.

Lastly, I'm happy with a the pace it's going; our trip over their way isn't for a few weeks yet, and I'd like to clear the air before we get in touch face to face. The electronic communication going back and forth can be a challenge. We are working on quiet times, and when Cupcake can have some time to phone Greg and ask how his day is, for example.

Remember this is all new for us, so keep that in mind y'all.

It's hard for them to find time to talk because the kids all need attention. Doing poly ethically can be harder when you have young children. You all need to be careful not to get carried away with your adult relationship and sexy tingles to the detriment of the kids. It's a balancing act. And now Greg is trying to be a Daddy while juggling no less than 3 women, and suffering with a drinking problem... hmmm.

OK, so one more question: Are you giving up on pressuring Peaches to play sexually with you? It seems like she doesn't desire you or Cupcake, she doesn't desire Greg, she only desires Alice. She is OK with being tangentially involved sexually with Greg if Alice is in the mix... Almost like she and Greg are using Alice as a unicorn, the proverbial human sex toy used to revive a sexually dead marriage. I question the ethics of that.

What is Alice's sexual health status? Does Greg use condoms with her, with Cupcake? Does Alice have more partners? Does she use condoms with them? Are you using condoms with Cupcake? You might consider that, since she's having sex with Greg, who is suddenly admitting to having sex with Alice.

Also, the fact he and Peaches are fucking Alice came as a shock to both of you. It brought Cupcake to tears... Do you need an agreement between the 4 or 5 of you in your poly tangle about letting each other know when there is potential for another partner coming into the mix? Has anyone been tested for STDs lately?

How did Greg and Peaches hook up with Alice anyway? A swingers club? A bar? Online? Again, does Greg do things like hit on women spontaneously when he's drunk? Did he not think of the impact it would have on Cupcake, whom he claims to love, to suddenly admit he's been fucking another woman for a while?
 
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It's a matter of negotiation. You can both submit to each other your desires, hard and soft limits. But you can only REQUEST the other agree to what you wish

Ok i'll keep this in mind, so what we are saying here it's the consent given to cupcake that she can be Poly and to stay with her is my choice, its what matters the most. My ideals of hard and soft limits discussed with her that i'm comfortable with are completely up to cupcake to follow? if she should break them i can't really hold it against her.. so i should really be coming across as " I would prefer if"

Since you came from a swinging attitude, besides compersion, you might have voyeuristic and cuckolding fetishes which are also gratified by the knowledge of Cupcake's sexual affection for, and activities with, Greg.
This has some element of truth in it but i do suffer from A & D issues which i'm taking medication for so i'm stressing if that's it's not a healthy thing to pursue , perhaps one day. The Attitude i have had in the past and perhaps still do is if i let this continue "What's in it sexually for me"? (Be it right or wrong that's how i feel) i like to think of it as i'm exploring and are open minded about relationships.

I do agree Greg is a problem with his Drinking, hes harmless enough but it does cause issues with Him and Peaches not forgetting hes medicated dealing with A&D as well.
I have noticed a few posts now people who perhaps think this is a bit of a shit sandwich and to walk away and we could , but its not that easy its very emotional for all of us.

Just so people are clear, none of us 4 have had sex yet, not even close. Peaches would like to play with cupcake if she got the chance.. and i bet Greg too. I don't mind so much if Peaches does not want to entertain me i'd never force that but apart from staying in the marriage for love i kinda get bummed out with that thought gain of whats in it for me?

What is Alice's sexual health status? Does Greg use condoms with her, with Cupcake? Does Alice have more partners? Does she use condoms with them? Are you using condoms with Cupcake? You might consider that, since she's having sex with Greg, who is suddenly admitting to having sex with Alice.
T
he whole Alice situation has only come to light in the last 2 days or so, and we all only just got reacquainted after a 3 month break so we don;t know much except that Peaches and Greg sleep with Alice , whom has just broke up with her abusive Husband some time ago, they are helping her get resettled in a new house.. doing a fine job of it so it seems.. We honestly don't know much about her background.

and for how they hooked up.. that's a messy story but i'll give you the short version. Greg and Alice are actually First cousins who have not been in each other lives for 20+ years so we are told. They got together few months ago after an Uncle died Cupcake and i presume it was a bond formed out of Grief. Peaches and Greg are happy to keep it up with her as they reckon the NRE has been amazing for them and has helped them work through their own issues.
 
I took the liberty of some editing for clarity when I quoted you.

OK, I'll keep this in mind. So what we are saying here is, it's [my] consent given to Cupcake that she can be poly. To stay with her is my choice, it's what matters the most. My ideals of hard and soft limits discussed with her that I'm comfortable with are completely up to Cupcake to follow?

To agree to and then to follow, yes.

If she should break them I can't really hold it against her?

No, you'd be upset if she broke an agreement. That is a breaking of trust. If she agrees to do or not do a certain behavior, but then finds she doesn't like that arrangement, she should let you know so you (plural) can renegotiate. Some people come together for an hour or so once a week to renegotiate agreements, when they are new to poly.

As you progress you may only need to do that once every 2 weeks, and so on.

So I should really be coming across as, "I would prefer if"?

However you state it, keep in mind she is her own person. You are equals. It's all up for negotiation. If you can't agree on boundaries, after trying, or breaking of trust X amount of time, you can always split.

This has some element of truth in it. But I do suffer from [anxiety/depression] issues, which I'm taking medication for. So I'm stressing if that's it's not a healthy thing to pursue? Perhaps one day.

Not sure what you're getting at there.

The attitude I have had in the past, and perhaps still do, is: if I let this continue, "What's in it sexually for me"? (Be it right or wrong that's how I feel.) I like to think of it as I'm exploring, and am open minded about relationships.

What is in it for you, sexually or otherwise? Well, you said Cupcake's NRE for Greg has made your shared good sex life even better. In the non-sexual area, you have good friends in G and P, as you've stressed above. You are also free to pursue sexual/romantic relationships with other women/men now. G&P may not desire that with you, and that probably feels like rejection, but most poly people do not date as couples or groups, as you do in swinging. They date independently. Not everyone is going to be conveniently attracted to someone else, just because they are in proximity.

I do agree Greg has a problem with his drinking. He's harmless enough, but it does cause issues with him and Peaches. Not forgetting he's medicated, dealing with A&D as well.

OK, so you and Greg are both dealing with a mental illness, and he's an alcoholic to boot. His drinking has had a bad effect on his marriage, perhaps that is why it's become sexless. And you've got several kids in your families, and you're former or current swingers, and Greg and Cupcake were doing "hankypanky" in a semi cheating wink wink nudge nudge way, and they are now "in love." And now Greg and Peaches are both having sex with Alice.

I have noticed a few posts now [from] people who perhaps think this is a bit of a shit sandwich, and [I am getting the idea they think we should] walk away. And we could, but it's not that easy. It's very emotional for all of us.

There's no pressure. This is your life, not ours. We just offer perspective you might not have yourself, if you're seeing all trees and not the forest because you are so close to it, not to mention inexperienced at ethical non-monogamy/polyamory. Take your time, take in all our advice, talk to your wife and the other 2. Don't rush!

Just so people are clear, none of us 4 have had sex yet, not even close.

So what was that "hanky-panky" you mentioned earlier?

Peaches would like to play with Cupcake if she got the chance, and I bet Greg [would like to fuck Cupcake] too.

So now they both want your wife, but do not want you? Sheesh! No wonder you're wondering what is in it sexually for you.

I don't mind so much if Peaches does not want to entertain me. I'd never force that. But apart from staying in the marriage for love, I kinda get bummed out with that thought of what's in it for me?

So you do mind! It's OK to admit you feel rejected by Peaches, and annoyed that Greg and Cupcake want to hook up, but no one wants you. You had an idea this would be a wife swapping quad, maybe a hard swap, where G&C go off, and you and P go off, and everyone gets laid. Now it seems like G&P want C as their 2nd unicorn (Alice being the first unicorn). And you're just on the sidelines, like, babysitting all the kids, or what?

The whole Alice situation has only come to light in the last 2 days or so. And we all only just got reacquainted after a 3 month break, so we don't know much; except that Peaches and Greg sleep with Alice. She has just broken up with her abusive husband some time ago. They are helping her get resettled in a new house. Doing a fine job of it, so it seems. We honestly don't know much about her background.

And for how they hooked up... that's a messy story, but I'll give you the short version. Greg and Alice are actually first cousins who have not been in each other's lives for 20+ years, so we are told. They got together few months ago after an uncle died. Cupcake and I presume it was a bond formed out of grief. Peaches and Greg are happy to keep it up with her, as they reckon the NRE has been amazing for them, and has helped them work through their own issues.

Oh, so the NRE they both have for Greg's first cousin has healed their own rift and now their marital issues around his drinking (and whatever else) have magically melted away?? What happens when the NRE subsides?

This does all seem quite messy. And complicated.
 
Sure. I'm willing to explain what I meant.

Mmmdonuts said:
Galagirl said:
You can let her know she has your blessing to date. But that is not up to you. That is up to Cupcake
Ok i'm confused am as her husband not able to decide and agree with her what soft and hard limits should be in respect to my feelings or should i just let her be Adult and let her go explore perhaps? I thought this was a consensual thing? .. or am i reading into this wrong. (I want to get it right)

I meant that you don't set up Cupcake's dates for her.

Yes, you can have a voice in the things that concern you. This is a consensual thing. But you have to know WHAT you are consenting to when you negotiate.
For example, maybe Cupcake and Greg having kids together is a no go hard limit for you.

Perhaps these worksheets help you both articulate some of that.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

Talk to Cupcake about what you are up for and not up for. Later share those things with your potentials. After a point though, when you and Cupcake are done talking it out? You could expect her to keep her agreements and let her arrange her dates herself.

You also have to decide what happens if Cupcakes breaks agreements. If she agrees to something, you can certainly hold her accountable to her agreements. Presumably she agreed from her own free will, so what's the problem keeping them?
  • Were the agreements not realistic? Maybe you renegotiate them.
  • Were there extenuating circumstances? Like the agreements are realistic most of the time, but there was this one freak thing so they couldn't be kept in this one time? Perhaps you both agree to give this one time a pass.
  • Were they realistic and she just up and disregarded them? Maybe she needs more practice keeping them and in keeping her Word.
  • Or if broken too many times... you figure out your limit for your staying-ness.

There's a point where you say "I love you a whole lot. But not even for you will I keep doing things that hurt me. I have to bow out."

i give Cupcake my full support for her and Greg to have a Date night.

I think that part is fine. Expressing your support, blessing, goodwill, etc. Expressing what your limits are.

It does seem odd to me that i'm happy to set this up i don't understand why.. its all new to me but i know i'm totally in love with her and to see her so happy and fulfilled makes me happy.

It's ok to feel compersion like you are excited/happy for her.

But why is it your job to set up Cupcake's dates for her? :confused: I think that part might be stepping on toes. That's what I was trying to get at. It's ok to be supportive, it is ok to talk about your boundaries and limits... but if you really are talking about setting up her dates with Greg for her? That's too much.

(Perhaps I misunderstood where you were going with all that... that's how it came across to me.)

Problem is Greg and Cupcake know that they can't be left alone and want something more. Remember that they do love each other very much we want to keep exploring that in a open way.

Why can't they be left alone? :confused: Isn't that part of them exploring in an Open way?

All of you talk to define the size of the "swimming pool." After everyone is satisfied with the agreements? The deal is on? People hold up their various ends of the sticks in this deal. You don't micromanage. They swim inside the defined space. Everyone feels respected enough, safe enough, informed enough, free enough, etc.

If someone drops their end of a stick or goes out of bounds? The rest hold them accountable to agreements made.

If over time agreements need to be renegotiated because of changing circumstances? That can also be done.

Is it Ok if Cupcake wants to lean on my shoulder from time to time about issues her and Greg have trying to flesh this all out, i really don't mind but iv'e had her in my arms in tears already about Greg and Alice one time. Is that pretty normal behavior?

Like with everything else... that's up to you to find a balance. In this case, perhaps it the balance between (being there for your partner) and (you burning out) and (being too up in Cupcake's stuff from habit.)

Some married couples develop a habit of sharing everything with each other because that's all the people in the system. Just them two. Everything becomes "our stuff." Not "my stuff, your stuff, and the stuff we share that is our stuff." But just everything is "our stuff." They forget that they are individuals as well as a couple. Not just "all couple."

Then when other people enter the system, sometimes the married couple is surprised the other partners get grumpy about "couple privilege."

Right now if you all agree to practice a primary-secondary model, the couples "come first." But HOW do they come first and in what scope? I think you could talk about that.

Does that mean if Cupcake and Greg have a dyad, they never can have privacy in that dyad? Because they have to tell everything that happens in that dyad to their primaries? Or is the agreement to tell only the things of concern and the rest is private?

In your talks, I think you could sort out your information management. Like what is "news" that you need to know about (ex: calendar, safer sex practices), and what is "TMI."

Mmmdonuts said:
This has some element of truth in it. But I do suffer from [anxiety/depression] issues, which I'm taking medication for. So I'm stressing if that's it's not a healthy thing to pursue? Perhaps one day.

That sounds like you are saying "I suffer from anxiety and depression. I take medication for this. So I am stressing out wondering if this is not a healthy thing to pursue at this time? Perhaps one day, but not right now?"

I think that's part of your thinking process. Go ahead and wonder it. Assess if this is a good time for you to be entering into poly, if these are the right people to be doing it with, if you and Cupcake have done enough preparation, etc.

Some couples take years before going there.

The attitude I have had in the past, and perhaps still do, is: if I let this continue, "What's in it sexually for me"? (Be it right or wrong that's how I feel.) I like to think of it as I'm exploring, and am open minded about relationships.

Well, what IS in this for you?
  • Compersion -- because you said you like seeing Cupcake happy.
  • And perhaps in an Open marriage agreement, you also negotiate to have the ability to date other people yourself. So you can find other sex partners for yourself.
  • Your friends back in close contact -- since you said you missed being friends with Greg and Peaches. (But you can be friends without dating them. Keep that in mind.)
  • Something else?

Figure out if there's enough "in there for you" for you to be willing to go there.

I do agree Greg is a problem with his Drinking, he's harmless enough. But it does cause issues with Him and Peaches not forgetting he's medicated dealing with A&D as well. I have noticed a few posts now people who perhaps think this is a bit of a shit sandwich and to walk away and we could , but its not that easy its very emotional for all of us.

that's a messy story but i'll give you the short version. Greg and Alice are actually First cousins who have not been in each other lives for 20+ years so we are told. They got together few months ago after an Uncle died Cupcake and i presume it was a bond formed out of Grief. Peaches and Greg are happy to keep it up with her as they reckon the NRE has been amazing for them and has helped them work through their own issues.

Greg and Peaches have a lot going on. Marriage problems, young kids, cheating recovery, mental health problems, drinking problems, possible incest with the 1st cousin (in some societies it is ok to date/marry a 1st cousin, in others 1st cousin is still inside the line and taboo)...

Whether or not you guys choose to get involved with these people? That's another thing you could have to assess.

I'm not telling you yes or no... You have to make up your own mind.

I'm asking you "where's the fire?" :confused: I'm suggesting you slow it down and think it all out well.

Not just jump in from excitement like "Wow! This is so great! Let's do it!" like a kid in a candy store. Then later come to find "I regret that impulsiveness. I could have thought it out better."

You and Cupcake could talk about your "messy list" and whether or not Greg and Peaches are on it.

Articulated or not... I think most people have one. Like you might not want Cupcake dating your boss because if things go badly the boss might make your life hell, try to make the workplace so uncomfortable you quit, or find reasons to fire you. Plenty of people to date in the world without dating your boss. Cupcake could just not date the boss at all or at least wait until you change jobs and the boss is no longer your boss. YKWIM? Think ahead to avoid a messy situation.

In the case of Greg and Peaches?
  • Are they ok enough to date at this time?
  • Just too messy in their various situations to date at this time. But if they get it together and clean some of those up, they could come off your messy list and you would consider getting involved with them at THAT point in time?
  • Too messy to ever date? It's chronic drama over there all the time?
  • Something else?

Again... something else to assess and talk about.

You are free to choose how you want. You are not free from the consequences of your choices.

So really do the work required with Cupcake and talk all the things out before going there.

Galagirl
 
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Not sure who tagged this thread "mono husband poly wife." It doesn't seem either husband is mono. One is polysexual (whether he could be polyamorous at some time is yet to be determined). The other is both casually polysexual and polyamorous (although with his drinking problem, I am not sure how clearly he is thinking).

Also Greg seems to be harem building...
 
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Not sure who tagged this thread "mono husband poly wife.

Yeah agreed but at the time it's how i felt and all i could think of, can i change it at all? Something more like.. The Wife wants to be Poly, what now?

I feel like i need to circle back to the start.. lots of whats discussed here is just history and what if's so far..but a wealth of helpful information :)

I have been in a flurry of emotions since i found out and previous to this we were monogamous but did both like to swing when away on holiday all consensual of course. However my wife cheated , we dealt with that but she is so hung up on the guy that can't break it off with him and believe me she has tried. shes managed just to whittle it down to the odd email and hiding it from me. Iv'e found out recently by snooping -Guilty - as i have trust issues now and rather than think fuck it it's over i have reflected back on our history and came to the conclusion that she is perhaps Poly.
Shes been in an open marriage before she married me and i just presumed or (Naive) before marrying her that it wouldn't happen to me..to be honest i had no clue about Poly stuff and thought it was nothing more but an excuse to cheat.
So i sat her down and asked her if this is perhaps what she feels her behavior might be around. Cupcake thought it's a strong possibility and if i felt i could handle it we should give it a go. (remember it makes me happy for her to be satisfied emotionally, not Sexual)

Now fast fwd to where we are right now! Greg wants to visit our town staying elsewhere so he and Cupcake can talk things through as they both feel it's easier in person. Peaches is happy for this as Greg's doctor reckons its great for him to get out away from home for his issues and shes happy with them both to spend time together.. me .. well i'm on the fence with it to be honest. I think it is happening too fast but Cupcake and Greg have the NRE pretty bad and feel they need to see if they have something here asap! :(

(Well that's the way i see it)

What is also giving me the shits is Cupcake does not want to see me hurt and is afraid i'll walk and is in my face every minute of the day asking if i'm OK or what i'm thinking despite me telling her i'm processing when i go quiet and just need some space and time alone to think... she isn't taking that too well and is getting narky with me.
Is she right that i shouldn't be left alone? it's getting to the point she is getting very frustrated with me as i'm not accepting as quick as she would like perhaps. Believe me we do talk and the tone with each other is still loving but can get a bit sour at times.

Well, what IS in this for you?
Compersion -- because you said you like seeing Cupcake happy.
And perhaps in an Open marriage agreement, you also negotiate to have the ability to date other people yourself. So you can find other sex partners for yourself.
Your friends back in close contact -- since you said you missed being friends with Greg and Peaches. (But you can be friends without dating them. Keep that in mind.)
Something else?

Agreed perhaps the something else may be the NRE , we are communicating better and the sexual side is been pretty sweet as well between us. I imagine that it will someday pass tho..

Iv'e read on other sites that marriages do not last in a poly/mono situation if it's come from Infidelity and they want to include that person as a partner in their married life.

Any truth to that or is it bullshit?
 
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Yeah, agreed, but at the time it's how I felt and all i could think of. Can I change it at all? Something more like... The Wife wants to be Poly, what now?

You'd have to ask a mod to change the title, but the tag at the bottom is what I meant. Did you tag it yourself? You can remove it if you did, I think.

More editing for clarity (yes, I am the grammar and sentence structure police haha).
I feel like i need to circle back to the start.. lots of what's discussed here is just history and what if's so far... but a wealth of helpful information :)

I have been in a flurry of emotions since I found out [about Cupcake and Greg]. Previous to this we were monogamous, but did both like to swing when away on holiday. (All consensual of course.)

However, my wife cheated [on me with Greg]. We dealt with that, but she is so hung up on the guy that she can't break it off with him-- and believe me she has tried. She's managed just to whittle it down to the odd email, which she has been hiding from me. I've found out recently by snooping -guilty! - as I have trust issues now. Rather than think "Fuck it, it's over," I have reflected back on our history, and came to the conclusion that she is perhaps poly.

You don't have to be poly to fall in love with more than one person. Some monos can and do fall in love with others, or at least become infatuated. The difference is in the actions you take when you realize you have feelings for another. Do you tell your SO you're in love with another and discuss it? Do you avoid this person you are infatuated with until your strong feelings for them die down? Consider together with your spouse/SO Opening the relationship? Or do you do as many do, and try to hide your strong feelings from your SO and just cheat on them?

She's been in an open marriage before she married me. I just presumed (naively) before marrying her that it wouldn't happen to me. To be honest, I had no clue about poly stuff, and thought it was nothing more than an excuse to cheat.

So I sat her down and asked her if this is perhaps what she feels her behavior might be around. Cupcake thought it's a strong possibility, and if i felt I could handle it we should give it a go. (Remember it makes me happy for her to be satisfied emotionally, not sexually.)

Except for those times you "swung" with her on holiday, right? It seems you feel OK to see her emotionally happy with friends, or sexually happy with others if it's "only sex," and you are in the room in a swinging situation, also getting some "strange." But put the two together, sex and love, and you feel threatened. Of course, it doesn't help that she started this all out by doing various cheating type behaviors behind your back. Not a good start.

Now fast fwd to where we are right now. Greg wants to visit our town, staying elsewhere, so he and Cupcake can talk things through, as they both feel it's easier in person.

So the idea that both you and Cupcake go visit Greg and Peaches (bringing the kids?) is off the table for now? They expect you to agree they go off to a hotel together to "talk"? How much do we all trust them to "just talk?" I don't trust that one bit, myself. They seem all too comfy with cheating behaviors. After all, what do THEY need to talk over? Greg wants to poly, Peaches is fine with him doing that, Cupcake obviously desires Greg. It's you that has been blindsided and cheated upon.

Peaches is happy for this, as Greg's doctor reckons it's great for him to get out away from home for his issues, and she's happy with them both to spend time together.

The doctor treating him for anxiety and alcoholism thinks it's a good idea for Greg to go see someone he wants to poly with? And knows that you, her husband, is still on the fence about them having a full sexual romantic relationship? I don't know how open Greg is being with the doctor (therapist?) about this whole poly idea, but it seems a little unethical for the doc to be all on board with this, considering all the messy factors, and the cheating, and their new triad with Alice, and the drunken flirtations, etc., etc.

Me... well I'm on the fence with it, to be honest. I think it is happening too fast, but Cupcake and Greg have the NRE pretty bad and feel they need to see if they have something here asap! :( (Well that's the way I see it.)

That's the way I see it too! And your feelings aren't being considered by them at all. The secret emails, etc., and now wanting you to agree/consent to them taking it further right now!!! hurry hurry, when it seems you're still dealing with the effects of the "poly bomb," and are not joyfully on board yet. There is a saying when you're new to poly, to go at the pace of the slowest member... You can request they slow it down until you've got your thoughts and feelings sorted out more.

You might want to agree. You might be fed up with the whole thing and want to split with Cupcake so she can go on to a poly life. You might want to request she break up with Greg, until you and she are on the same page with how to poly. You might be OK with her taking back up with him in X months, or you might be so soured to Greg's cheating and drinking and all that, that you won't be on board with remaining with Cupcake at all, if she insists on staying with Greg.

What is also giving me the shits is, Cupcake does not want to see me hurt and is afraid I'll walk. She is in my face every minute of the day asking if I'm OK, or what I'm thinking, despite me telling her I'm processing. When I go quiet and just need some space and time alone to think... she isn't taking that too well and is getting narky with me.

How can you get her to understand you need quiet time alone to think? You could go out alone. Go for a walk, or a drive, or a swim, or just go sit in a park somewhere... And she can just deal with her impatience. Respect you enough to give you some space sometimes! She's really pressuring you. You could let her deal with her own fears that you will "walk." That is the consequences of her cheating and breaking trust, after all. It is a real possibility, and she brought it on herself.

Is she right that I shouldn't be left alone? It's getting to the point she is getting very frustrated with me, as i'm not accepting as quick as she would like, perhaps. Believe me, we do talk and the tone with each other is still loving, but can get a bit sour at times.

Of course it's OK for you to want alone time.

I've read on other sites that marriages do not last in a poly/mono situation if it's come from infidelity, and they want to include that person as a partner in their married life.

Any truth to that or is it bullshit?

Truth. A small percentage can survive but many break up.
 
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Greg wants to visit our town staying elsewhere so he and Cupcake can talk things through as they both feel it's easier in person.

I sometimes have a hard time following you because you allude to things rather than speak plain. So I will speak plain:

What's that mean? Just talking? Why not phone or Skype them? Or does that mean go to a hotel and hook up?

Is that why they cannot be trusted together yet? They have not made all the trust repairs they need to make with you and Peaches?

Peaches is happy for this as Greg's doctor reckons its great for him to get out away from home for his issues and shes happy with them both to spend time together..

Is doctor aware of all the messy stuff going on? I doubt going to see his ex-cheating partner to maybe hook up is what the doctor intends.

I suspect it is more like "Take a small trip away. Go visit your family, go see a museum, go hiking." Like TAKE AWAY from your problems, not ADD more potential new ones.

i'm on the fence with it to be honest.

That is not a "joyous yes" to me. So if they want Greg to visit so they go hook up in his hotel, say PLAIN. "No. I'm not up for that at this time. I'm willing to give my blessing if trust repairs are made FIRST. I'm not seeing trust repairs, so no. Not yet."

I think it is happening too fast but Cupcake and Greg have the NRE pretty bad and feel they need to see if they have something here asap!

Ok. So what is wrong with phone, skype, etc? If they have the NRE so bad that they want to talk to see if there's anything there?

What is also giving me the shits is Cupcake does not want to see me hurt and is afraid i'll walk. She is in my face every minute of the day asking if i'm OK or what i'm thinking despite me telling her i'm processing when i go quiet and just need some space and time alone to think. She isn't taking that too well and is getting narky with me.

You could tell her you will update her on Fridays and to sit tight til Friday check in. And if she cannot respect your limit? That tells you something.

You could be FIRM.

"I need time to think this all out. I'm willing to check in weekly. I am not willing for you to be pestering me daily. That doesn't help my thinking process. Pulling me away asking "are you done yet?" means I have to start all over or I don't get to think straight. This is too big and too fast for me to decide "Complete Yes" in a rush.

I gave a "conditional yes, pending trust rebuild." If you do not respect my simple limits like check in on Friday without pestering me in between? To demonstrate that I can trust you keeping your Word with small stuff? How can you expect me to trust you with keeping your Word with big stuff?

If you have to have an answer RIGHT NOW then the answer is just NO. I want my limits respected, and if you cannot do that even with small stuff, then we need to change the conversation to breaking up so you can be free to pursue however you want and I can be free from rush/mess and have my peace of mind return."​

And then she can deal with that.

Have the balls, dude. Speak PLAIN, be FIRM. State your limits.

Is she right that i shouldn't be left alone? it's getting to the point she is getting very frustrated with me as i'm not accepting as quick as she would like perhaps. Believe me we do talk and the tone with each other is still loving but can get a bit sour at times.

You can be alone. Take a walk, do your stuff. You don't need her permission to have time on your own.

If she's pestering... and you are getting glimpses into the kind of hinge person she will be? Like she's going to be a sloppy hinge who runs right over you, always about what SHE wants NOW? Rather than moving slower so ALL the people in the network are treated respectfully? Maybe you don't want any of that.

I think you are in poly hell.

I also think you are in the bargaining stage of grief. You keep trying to spin all this into more positive "what's in this for me?" stuff and the uplift lasts for a little while, and then reality kicks in again.

It's fine to be compersive and want to see Cupcake happy. But that has to be balanced with what makes YOU happy.

It's not "whatever makes Cupcake happy, at my expense, with it coming out of my hide" right? :(

I've read on other sites that marriages do not last in a poly/mono situation if it's come from Infidelity and they want to include that person as a partner in their married life.

  • Couples might break up over the infidelity. That's how they choose to fix it - by parting ways. They may or may not forgive the people, but they know they don't want to participate here any more.
  • Couples might seek help to recover from cheating to enable them to stay together, CLOSED.
  • Couples might seek help to recover from cheating to enable them to stay together, OPEN. They might move on to open marriage and practicing poly with other people.
  • Couples might seek help to recover from cheating to enable them to stay together, OPEN. They might move on to open marriage and practicing poly with the former cheating affair person in the network. This is not impossible but it is RARE. And certainly not before doing the other work first. Healing from cheating recovery, rebuilding trust with all players, etc.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

I'm not sure that this still isn't in the "cheating recovery" time frame for you.

And everyone is just trying to speed that process up (even you) and whitewash it with the "poly brush." Like a house with bad foundations and perhaps termites in the walls. But hey! Gave it a new lick of paint. Everyone's happy now, right?

I suggest you slow it down and tread with caution.

If you don't feel good here, and you observe that people are trying to rush you along and maybe sell you a pig in a poke? Buyer beware. It's on you to look out for your health and best interests.

Galagirl
 
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