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Old 09-12-2018, 07:50 AM
MotMot MotMot is offline
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Default Figuring out a poly wife and (semi?) Mono me?

So quick summary,

We have both had pure sex experiences with others (both together and seperate) and they have been good things. That being said, that aspect is kind of growing with us and evolving. The sex we have both had is fun but H has realized she needs to have an emotional component with anyone else she would have sex with or shes not comfortable. Our journey started from the hotwife aspect and has quickly kind of changed.

When we started dating I introduced her to RA Heinlein (I know that's an iffy author with poly but anyhow) and she has been fascinated with group marriage and pairings since. That was probably 13 years ago and with having had sexual experiences since with others. She has very much held on to the poly aspects of any sex encounters we have had and fully admits it's something she wants.

So, after my rambles, we are kind of at a general cusp. Recently she had some "fun" with a coworker who is married. His wife dint know and it didnt work outdueled to that. She felt bad about it for his wife and even though he and his wife have crappy marriage it is still there. So it brought up that she needs a boyfriend and not a dalliance. I was NOT surprised at all and that's completely her, would have been shocked if it was different honestly.

I would very much like for her to let herself find the boyfriend shes said she would love to have but she is very concerned about ruining our marriage both for us and our youngest. I am not a jealous guy and have supported whatever she decides. That being said she admits she struggles between her worries of harming our relationship and being able to enjoy another. Advice to pass along to her? From what I can tell she wants a secondary involved with both of us and I am OK with that. I do to have any immediate plans for any other people on my side at all but will full embrace whatever or whomever she decides. I would assume these concerns are common for people in our situation. Any advice from others that have been through this type of situation?
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:29 PM
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FallenAngelina FallenAngelina is offline
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I'm curious why you have posted this question and not your wife. Each partner has her own point of view and feelings, so any advice we'd give would be for you - or at very least filtered through you. We could throw out general advice, but there are many websites and blogs that can do the same. Things tend to go better here when a person does the talking, feeling and thinking for herself. Lots comes up in the course of these threads for the individuals involved because this is a discussion community. There's really not a lot of value in general advice - not value that you couldn't get from 10 websites that purport to be Poly Best Practices websites. The beauty of this community is that we talk one on one, real person to real person.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:26 PM
MotMot MotMot is offline
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I posted mainly because she is not really a big internet forum user and I guess what I was really after was input on a mono/poly relationship and navigating that. I have found lots of information and advice on poly/poly relationships or starting a NEW relationship with one person being poly but not really much in regards to transitioning from a monogamous marriage. If there is a place, either on here or a blog or something, that has tips,personal experiences or such that anyone can recommend that can help us I am all for that. I just get cautious doing a random internet search and taking for granted its valid advice. I figured on the forum I could ask questions regarding any advice but like I said if there are good resources already out there that's great. I hope that makes sense.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:29 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotMot View Post
Advice to pass along to her? From what I can tell she wants a secondary involved with both of us and I am OK with that. I do to have any immediate plans for any other people on my side at all but will full embrace whatever or whomever she decides. I would assume these concerns are common for people in our situation. Any advice from others that have been through this type of situation?
I concur with Karen, above, insofar as it's difficult for us to give advice aimed at your wife, when she herself isn't the one posting or asking the questions that are really on her mind.

re: The quoted section ^

You say "from what I can tell... she wants a secondary involved with both of us and I am OK with that."

- Are you talking about a triad dynamic, where you three are all involved with each other intimately to some extent?

- Do you mean a kitchen table type "V", in which you and the other guy might hang out together with (or even without) your wife, but you two guys aren't intimately involved? Or possibly you might all live together.

- Or are you envisaging an extension of the "hot-wife" scenario you've dabbled in in the past? i.e. You would remain your wife's "primary" partner, but you get to watch your wife and this "secondary" engage in intimacy and/or be involved in group sex scenes, even though you and the boyfriend won't be directly involved in a relationship with each other?

I ask, because your OP doesn't make it clear *exactly* what your wife is looking to get from this an additional relationship (you said "as far as I can tell", rather than "I KNOW she wants x, y, or z)... nor to *what* extent you are prepared to be involved.

Remember, it's dangerous to go into polyamory with a "couple + one" mindset, whereby your wife and yourself have some preconceived notion/agenda into which you wish to "fit" any potential new partner. It smacks a little of unicorn hunting, though that may not be how you meant it to come across.
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 50, heteroflexible
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Boho: F, 57, heteroflexible, primary partner (LD)

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Bud: early 20s, son
Lola: early 20s, daughter

Last edited by lunabunny; 09-12-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:52 PM
MotMot MotMot is offline
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I guess in rereading my original post it did come across as seeking advice on her behalf which is not really what I am after. It's about us as a couple. The concern we really have is negatively impacting our relationship as it stands. She has no immediate plans on a relationship and while she enjoyed the sex shes had with someone other than me she knows that in all likelihood that would end up involving an emotional relationship if is something that happens more. What we are trying to now is talk about that possibility and how/if that will work into our relationship together and as as parents. The nature of what any potential relationship would be is part of our discussions and that's an evolving process as we both kind of figure out what it is we would want.

So I guess in short its advice for US as partners, best friends and parents to help us educate ourselves as to the types of pitfalls, complications and such that others who have young kids have run into when opening up to the possibility of some sort of a poly relationship. Just knowing what sorts of issues others have encountered would help us discuss how we might potentially handle them before they arise. Its entirely possible we may decided it's not something we are willing to risk at this point in life or it may be that we decide it is something we would be benfit from. We are just kind of at a fork in the road in regards to our monogamy and trying to figure it all out in a healthy and proactive way. We dipped our toes in the pool and now are trying to decide if we want to go swimming or not.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:34 AM
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Hello MotMot,

Here are some links that may help you with the mono/poly aspect, the parenting aspect, or just poly in general:
Generally speaking, the two main things I usually advise are, first, go slow, and second, communicate, much and well. No matter how good you are at communicating, you can always get better. So, get lots of practice, read books on communication, etc.

Also keep posting on this thread, as your situation evolves. This way we can keep giving up-to-date advice.

Regards,
Kevin T.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:40 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotMot View Post
She has no immediate plans on a relationship and while she enjoyed the sex shes had with someone other than me she knows that in all likelihood that would end up involving an emotional relationship if is something that happens more. What we are trying to now is talk about that possibility and how/if that will work into our relationship together and as as parents. The nature of what any potential relationship would be is part of our discussions and that's an evolving process as we both kind of figure out what it is we would want.

So I guess in short its advice for US as partners, best friends and parents to help us educate ourselves as to the types of pitfalls, complications and such that others who have young kids have run into when opening up to the possibility of some sort of a poly relationship.
Okay, I think this makes it clearer where you're both at in regards to any potential poly relationship developing... and what your concerns are re: the impact another person may have on the existing relationship.

It's a good sign that you're looking ahead and talking out the possibilities when it comes to what type/structure of relationship you'd be prepared to engage in.

So it seems there is no specific "potential" partner on the horizon... yet (?)

The thing you may be overlooking is that, while you as a couple can certainly discuss the subject and come up with a relationship "model" you're both alright with... you won't really *know* how well, or IF, any previously agreed-upon dynamic will suit any man your wife may happen to develop a bond with *until* a potential relationship becomes more than just academic.

IMO, the major pitfalls of people/couples new to polyamory are:

1.) Assuming the existing couple gets to make the decisions for ALL the people involved ("couple privilege"), which is really something you both ought to read up on.

Unlike swinging, which tends to be quite couple-centric, poly is really NOT - and thinking this way is a common newbie mistake. Even if the other partner is okay with being a "secondary", they still have a right to make decisions about their own relationship and how it works. They have a right to negotiate time alone with their partner rather than always having it dictated by the needs of the couple or meta (in this case you, MotMot).

Likewise, most polyamorous people don't believe a "veto" option is a great idea because it essentially strips the OSO of any rights over their own relationship if a third party can unilaterally decide they aren't comfortable or don't like their meta, so they withdraw consent after a relationship has already begun and emotions are involved.

2.) In a poly/mono dynamic, there's a danger in the poly person moving too fast once they do meet someone for whom they develop feelings.

NRE - new relationship energy - can be a powerful force and is often underestimated... until it hits. This happy haze of infatuation can cause previous plans and agreements to go flying out the window fast, unless all parties stay mindful of the possibility, and the existing couple actively tries to mitigate it to some extent by working hard at maintaining their own connection during this phase.

For obvious reasons, NRE is likely to result in feelings of jealousy and being left out on the part of the existing partner - even if they thought they were the non-jealous type - unless it is managed wisely. A person who may have been perfectly fine with his/her partner engaging in a purely sexual manner with others, may be taken by surprise if they find themselves becoming upset or insecure due to the added emotional component that goes hand in hand with poly.

Fear of losing one's partner to the meta is common and pretty normal, especially if the poly partner appears "too" enamoured of the new person too quickly, or doesn't seem as interested in engaging sexually with their spouse/existing partner. So definitely DO some reading on jealousy, envy and insecurity and how to allay those feelings.

3.) Where children are involved, it's important for ALL adults involved to be on the same page regarding: conduct around the kids (for example, PDA); what/how much to tell them about the relationship (which will depend on the ages of the children and family circumstances); and most importantly, to have confidence that the other partner/meta is someone who can be trusted to be around the children and to stick to any discipline methods or dietary requirements or other needs the children may have, decided upon by the parents.

None of the above can really be decided upon in advance, however, until there is a "real person" in the picture. Because until such time as your wife meets someone with whom she connects with emotionally (to the extent where she'd like to start an actual relationship), you won't know what that particular person is like... what they are up for in regards to relationship structure... if you'd even consider having them become involved in your kids' lives (to whatever extent)... if your wife would want to have "overnights" away from the kids, or weekends away, vacations with the other partner etc. A lot will depend on this hypothetical other person, and their wants and needs, as well as the wants and needs of you and your wife as individuals, AND as a family.
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 50, heteroflexible
Jester: M, 59, straight, primary partner (LD)
Boho: F, 57, heteroflexible, primary partner (LD)

Red: M, 53, straight, ex-husband
Bud: early 20s, son
Lola: early 20s, daughter

Last edited by lunabunny; 09-13-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:10 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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It sounds like you both had consenting casual sex encounters that went ok enough.

It also sounds like wife got involved with a coworker who was cheating on his wife. If so, that one is murky waters.

Now she's worried that a serious BF would cause problems with your marriage. And you guys want to figure out if you even want to go there or not -- more like "polyamorous serious relationship-ing" and less like "share casual sex with people sometimes."

You guys might want to talk about what your poly ethics will be. Getting involved with coworkers can get messy even without the cheating affair part. There's enough people in the word to date without going for the messies. Maybe you guys want to talk about who the messy people ARE. Maybe you don't want her dating your parents, coworkers, minister, kid's teacher, etc. Maybe she has a messy list of her own she doesn't want you dating.

I'll add more links to what Kevin put and encourage you to spend some time reading. Maybe go attend some poly munches or cons. For the purposes of education, not leaping into dating.
http://practicalpolyamory.com/downlo...documents.html

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

http://openingup.net/resources/free-...om-opening-up/
Quote:
Its entirely possible we may decided it's not something we are willing to risk at this point in life or it may be that we decide it is something we would be benfit from.
It's your call. I think it's good you are trying to approach is from a well thought out place rather than on impulse.

I chose/choose Closed during active parenting years. I saw the writing on the wall due to me and DH's birth order. I knew I would not love it and now that I am in it? I HATE being in the "sandwich generation." Raising kids with one hand and dealing with eldercare with the other. There is no space in my life for more people. As HS grad gets closer and as more of the elders have already died? A lot of my load over the years has lessened. I feel a lot better. But UGH was it the pits at the start of this phase of life during elementary school and a full deck of elders. I see the light at the end of the tunnel but I'm not there yet.

So look ahead -- if you have major life changes coming in the near future that are NOT optional? Maybe delaying WHEN the start poly is better.

And you know what? When I arrive at being ABLE to go there? I'm not yet WILLING. I want to reconnect "just us" for a while. We haven't been "just us" for years. One pitfall I sometimes see is people not assessing both WILLING and ABLE. Sometimes one is WILLING but is not able due to lack of skills, time, circumstances, etc. Sometimes one is ABLE but not willing to do any number of reasons.

One pitfall I sometimes see is wanting to keep the poly thing "on the down low." There are problems to that. People neglect to sort it out ahead of time with family and friends to see who the REAL support systems are. Then they know they have reliable people to turn to if things go awry. They assume family and friends will be there and are shocked when not so much.

If the children are young, some grandparents might want to take them away from these "unwholesome" parents doing that "unwholesome stuff." People are stunned by that response/reaction sometimes.

Or maybe not that, but stunned by the "weirdo" response/reaction. A friend of mine had a defacto wife in addition to her husband. For YEARS. The wife broke up with her and she was in deep grief. She wasn't out to her family. The wife was always presented as a "friend." So the family was not "I'm so sorry you are dealing with divorce pain" like she hoped. They were more like "What did you expect doing weirdo stuff?" They were digesting being lied to all this time and dealing with this new model they didn't know about. They didn't have space to give her sympathy like she hoped. I thought her hopes/expectations of her family were unrealistic but I didn't say that. She was grieving. Why add to her load? But it IS a pitfall. NOT to be out and NOT to know where your actual support lies. Having an unrealistic picture of friends and family.

Another poly family I know ended in divorce. There the husband never took the time to develop his OWN social circles and friends. He just used his wife's. So when the wife split, all the friends went with her and he was high and dry. That was a stunner for him. But he did it to himself. I'm casual friends with him cuz our kids are friends, but we're not tight. Yet I was all he had. Isn't that sad? His closest friend is his kid's friend's mom? I would have though he had other friends closer to him than me to be his support. But he didn't take the time to build it ahead of time.

Which leads to another pitfall I sometimes see. Assuming "back to originals." Like if things go awry, it will go back to that other person single and you two still married. Sometimes it ends up everyone single. So if you want to go there fully prepared? Agree on how you want to break up peacefully before going there. Like better to make the emergency plan and never need it. Than to need it and then from lack of foresight, be trying to make it while emotions are running high. That's not pleasant. You are responsible for your own emergency preparedness.

Another pitfall is forgetting this is a break up. People think "add a third" rather than "we are choosing to disband this marriage. We are breaking up as a couple. Maybe not legally, but emotionally this is a break up. We do this on purpose so we can try a new relationship model. The old marriage is GONE."

And that looks different to each person in the new relationship model.
  • For the dating spouse, the new dating potential may "pad" or "postpone" the break up feelings some. They might get over-gushy lalalala. Then later wonder why they are hit with all this sad as if from nowhere. It's not from nowhere. It is delayed.
  • For the non-dating spouse, they may feel grief/mourning and like they are doing it alone. Like all this extra work to get LESS back. They process the sad alone. So by the time the dating spouse hits it, they might be grumpy. Like "I had to do my sad alone. Why should I help you with your sad?" AND if they are not mono, but poly? They might be ready to move on to dating and not keen on postponing longer. Like "MY turn to feel some happys! I'm sick of the sads!"
  • For the non-married person in the network, they may at times feel "third wheel" or don't speak up enough for themselves not wanting to "intrude on the marriage." They might also point out weird to the hinge. Not out of mean, but just "Why do you guys do that? It seems odd. Why not X?" Because usually a 3rd perspective DOES point out things that are odd that the married people have long grown blind to. Gives the hinge fresh eyes to see from and something new to think about. And this might be a good thing and welcome in the network. Or this could be the source of problems in the network.

This is had good picture of two of the tracks:

https://www.eoslifework.co.uk/transmgt1.htm

It could play out in other ways too.

You cannot plan for EVERYTHING, but you can agree on HOW to deal with things when they come up. Like agree on your conflict resolution method, and agree how to part ways WELL in a worst case scenario.

Some people take years talking this out. It's ok to take it like a series of "soft openings" and then assess, then try again, then assess.

Others just jump in. Or something in between.

Every grouping is different.

You have to figure out how YOU guys want to do it.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-13-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:20 PM
MotMot MotMot is offline
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This is exactly the type of info I was looking for! Thank you all so much for it. I will be sure to post as things evolve. Again thank you!
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