New to Poly and needing help

Why did you wait 45 mins before seeing what was going on?
I don’t really have much of an answer to that question, except that I was lost in my own head. I remember listening to my heart pound for a very long time. I guess I entered that entered that state where time fades. As I wrote in the OP, this is all new to me, and to a very large extent I feel like a stranger in a strange land, and not in a cool Heinlein Martian way. This I do not grok.


What did you think was going on?
I had no idea whatsoever. That’s why I went to find out.


I think you have yourself to blame for that.
You are certainly right about that. I agree.

If this was a first time, after a long wait to broach the topic, I can totally see them getting caught up in it.
I can totally see it too. It is completely understandable. Understanding it does not help the wound heal.

Damn right they both need to sit and listen as you work through your anger.
Funny thing: I'm not really all that angry. I feel hurt, insecure, and abandoned, mostly. Some anger now and then, but not much.

But don't forget to tell them that is all it is. Working through it to see where you end up.
Right now he and I are stuck in the elephant house. There's no telling where we'll end up, but for the time being at least that's where we are.

Once again, everyone, please accept my sincere thanks to each of you who’ve taken the time to consider my situation and respond. Your insights and questions are really helping me get a handle on this. Also, thanks to each of you who read this thread and took a moment to send me a good vibe. It’s working. Things are coming clearer at last. Thank you all.

I have decided to find a poly-friendly counselor and do the work necessary to learn the lesson being offered here, so that I can heal and move on. (And I might as well do it now while I still have coverage for it.) If Hubby and Star decide at some point they wants to revisit these issues, I’ll try to be ready to meet them where they are. But I’m not waiting for them. I’m going to find the straightest line between the problem and the solution, and I am going to get from here to there, and I know I’ll be stronger and better and wiser for having made the trip.

Thank you all for the encouragement and support. I particularly liked the hugs. Really, thanks.
 
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Good luck with the counseling. Will Hubby and Star come with? Maybe it will be a more evenly-grounded setting to discuss these issues. Sometimes having a "referee" for all the emotional parties can be a big help.
 
You sound strong, Fidelia. Good for you taking the bull by the horns!

I was wondering to if they would agree to go with you to counseling.

Hugs to you. Keep at it. You're doing great. Let us know what happens.
 
Star lives too far away for counseling to be a viable option, except maybe once in a while, and Hubby seems to be making himself comfortable in the elephant house. So for now, at least, it looks like individual counseling for me. And that’s okay.

Of course I’d rather work it through with him/them, but if he won’t, he won’t. And I’m certainly not going to further damage our marriage by pushing him. I already know where that course of action leads. He’s one of those people who will NOT be pushed, but can often be led. So I’m going to move forward, and concentrate on my healing. Hopefully he’ll see me making progress and at some point decide to deal with the elephant. But that’s his choice to make.

You sound strong, Fidelia. Good for you taking the bull by the horns!
I am strong. I know I’ll get past this. This is not my first rodeo, after all. My heart’s been broken before, plenty of times, and it always heals stronger in the mended places. This is a bad break, to be sure, and made worse by the “who did what to who,” and even worse by the isolation of not having my nearest and dearest to help me deal with it. I really did feel like there wasn’t anyone in the world I could open up to about it.

But you guys here at this forum have helped me so much with your insights and ideas, your solid advice, and most of all, just your support. I really cannot thank you enough for your help. I am filled with gratitude for the blessings you all have given me.

:) Okay, everybody, c’mere for a big group hug. Come on... :) *BIG BIG warm loving grateful HUGS*
 
hugs

Urrrmph... Aaaahh. :)

You go, Fidelia. I am so glad you have found the beginnings of peace with your situation. I am impressed by your attitude and by you taking charge of your own state of mind.
 
NOBODY else wants a group hug??

Okay, fine... Rarechild and I will enjoy this awesome poly-hug enough for all the group...

Mmm... mmm...
 
Urrrmph... Aaaahh. :)

You go, Fidelia. I am so glad you have found the beginnings of peace with your situation. I am impressed by your attitude and by you taking charge of your own state of mind.


I agree with Rarechild on this one! I'm proud of you.

I read the post, but didn't know how to respond, because this is one issue the hubby and I have never had to deal with, because we both know that to do something like this could and would probably destroy the relationship we have fought so hard to establish with each other. The love we say we have for each other is exactly the love we do have for each other. So to hurt the other is to hurt ourselves.

I want to offer my hugs too!!!!! :D You are a stronger woman than you think.
 
Devil's advocate

Is there a comparison?

I dipped a toe into the swinging scene when I gained my freedom. The sexual side of polyamory does not seem that different. People express a desire to fulfill a fantasy, a husband's friend, the friend of the wife. Many of us have these thoughts and fantasies. It is my belief that as a race we are not naturally monogamous.

Are we using polyamory as a way to legitimise the fact that we would like multiple partners, with the approval and participation of our spouses, or is it just a label for a sexual adventure?
 
Are we using polyamory as a way to legitimise the fact that we would like multiple partners, with the approval and participation of our spouses, or is it just a label for a sexual adventure?

I honestly think it is used both ways. This is not my opinion. This is what I see firsthand in the poly community.

I used to judge and get caught up in a form of "disapproval" because I personally wouldn't be healthy in a "sexual adventure" approach. The key is that I would not be healthy. Others can be and may be.

Now that I have come to the realization that other people's relationships are not mine, I am much more open to the various approaches to poly for what they are. That does not mean I like to see the term abused by those who are dishonest in what they are looking for, or use it to manipulate a partner. It just means that if everyone is honest about what they want from relationships, then I am fine with it.
 
The sexual side of poly is worlds different than swinging. Why does this keep coming up? I feel like I repeat myself over and over... It makes me stronger every time in my convictions!

It is like the difference between drinking a really good latte or an instant coffee. (To those in Britain, I realize this analogy might be off, as I know you generally drink instant coffee.)

There is nothing like sex with connection, love and the lust that comes from needing and wanting to be close to someone's soul, not just their interesting body.

Swinging, as I have said before, is akin to masturbating in someone else's body. Having poly relationships with others above and beyond your primary partner has the potential to be far deeper and as spiritually bonding as a primary relationship.

I am finding that poly has changed me in ways I am not able to articulate yet. It's coming, and I will certainly write when I know, but my understanding of myself and who I am in the world has changed. I am surrounded by love and support in ways I never have needed before. Not only that, it has changed how I interact with my husband.

No, my friend, it is very different than a flash in the pan swinging night or going to meet someone with the intention of having sex with them without the connection.
 
Is there a comparison?

Are we using polyamory as a way to legitimise the fact that we would like multiple partners, with the approval and participation of our spouses, or is it just a label for a sexual adventure?

I am not widely experienced in polyamory (see the OP) and I have no experience whatsoever in swinging, but I do know there is a clear distinction. Polyamory involves full, close adult relationships among the partners, whereas swinging involves consensual extramarital or non-marital sex among the participants, with little or other relationship required or desired.
 
Or there are these definitions from the Polyamory Language Page at http://www.polyamorysociety.org:

Polyamory (noun): The non-possessive, honest, responsible and ethical philosophy and practice of loving multiple people simultaneously. Polyamory emphasizes consciously choosing how many partners one wishes to be involved with, rather than accepting social norms which dictate loving only one person at a time. Polyamory is an umbrella term which integrates traditional multipartner relationship terms with more evolved egalitarian terms. Polyamory embraces sexual equality and all sexual orientations, towards an expanded circle of spousal intimacy and love. Polyamory is from the root words poly, meaning many, and amour, meaning love, hence: many loves.

Swinging (verb): Recreational sexual activity, also called sport sex, where partners or participants agree to have casual sex with each other. There is usually no emotional involvement. It is a form of monogamy in which (usually) two primary partners agree to have casual sex with other couples or singles.
 
Update on the Elephant House

It’s been a while, and I don’t want anyone here to think I’ve just stayed “stuck” all this time, so here’s an update on the situation on the ground at my house.

There is no poly-friendly counselor available where I live. I could see an individual counselor, but I really want to deal with this in a way that opens my heart to more love, more openness, more possibilities, and mental health professionals are just not trained, traditionally, to think in polyamorous terms. So I’ve decided to study up on the matter myself, and apply what I already know and the skills I already have, and see if I can’t find my way through this maze. If I can-- great! If I can’t... well, there are always those nice young men in their clean white coats who can come and take me away, haha, hehe, hoho!

The elephant is still living in our house. It pretty much follows Hubby from room to room, occasionally waving flags and blowing whistles, but Hubby refuses to have a look. This gives me plenty of time to think and study.

Since the last time I wrote, my beloved, precious Hubby has more or less fallen all over himself to demonstrate how much he loves me. While I was away from home (taking care of some stuff for his mom) he sent me two dozen red roses, then the next week he sent me a huge package of love notes I’ve saved over the years. He called me every day, five or six times a day. Now that I’m home, he brings me coffee in bed, which he knows I love. He does a million little things to show me he loves me, that I am important to him, that he cares. I am convinced. He loves me. Good thing, too, because I’m over the moon about him. He is the love of my life, and I know I am his.

But he will not talk about what happened.

I, on the other hand, have not been standing still. I’ve been studying up, thinking hard about a lot of things, taking a long look at the baggage in my closets, and I’ve reached a few conclusions.

I’m not ready to trust Star with my heart on that level. I still love her, of course. She’s still my bff and I would trust her on many, many levels, but not that one. I’ve seen her behave like a bull in a china closet with other people’s hearts, and I’m not ready to hand her mine again. Maybe someday, but not now. I may be once bitten/twice shy, but there it is.

I’ve also come to the conclusion that Hubby’s not ready to go poly. Specifically, he’s not ready for the level of communication, care and ongoing relational involvement that poly requires.

Also, he can’t pay sufficient attention to me when other people are involved, polyamorous or not. Let me give you one example and I think you’ll see what I mean. We had some friends over to swim in our new pool, a guy and a girl. Good music, good friends, nice day. Everyone’s having a good time, etc.

Hubby’s going into the house and asks if he can get anyone anything. Joe wants a beer, Jill wants water and I’ll have a Diet Coke, thanks. He comes back with the beer and the water, but forgets the Coke. No biggie. It’s not that important. I let it slide.

A while later, Hubby’s going in again, and wants to know who wants what. Joe will take another beer, thanks. Jill wonders if there are any chips and salsa left. And I’d like a Coke, thanks. At that moment, he says, “Oh yeah! Your Coke!”

The beer and the chips and salsa make it outside. No Coke, though.

I don’t want to make a big deal, but I’m thirsty, and I know he’s not going to remember the Coke. So I get out of the pool and go in. When Hubby sees me coming out of the house with the Coke, at that moment he remembers it, and he gets all bent out of shape. I know he’s ticked with himself for forgetting it twice, but there’s no point in getting worked up about it. And there’s certainly no point in sniping at me about it!

Please! Either do it or don’t, but don’t say one thing and do another! I hate that! (which of course, just plays into the issues opened up in the OP, and here we go... Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.)

This is just one recent example. When we’re alone, I am the queen of his world, his true love, his heart’s desire. My wish is his command. When we’re with other people, not so much. And I really don’t think it would bother me much, except that it’s pretty consistent behavior and it shows that I just fall off his radar screen. In terms of just our dyad, I can deal with it. It’s an irritant, but ultimately it’s just one thing and nobody bats 1.000. God knows I have plenty of flaws he has to deal with. But do I want to introduce the complications and emotions that come with romance, relationships and NRE? Thanks, I’ll pass. In fact, to quote Whitney Houston, “HELL to the NO!”

This is one of the issues we will have to address if we’re going to continue moving toward a poly life. I am a strong Alpha female; there’s no way on God’s green earth I could tolerate being overlooked that way in favor of another love interest. Period, end of story. And of course there are the issues brought up in the OP still to be dealt with, none of which we are talking about.

So that’s where we are now. I feel like I’ve been learning and growing all this time, thanks to some serious research, study, and soul-searching, and also thanks in no small part to all you wonderful, wise, witty people here at the forum.

So when he’s ready to talk about the elephant, I’m ready. But if a poly life is what he really wants, someday he’s going to have to deal with the elephant.
 
Wow. Good for you. Hubby does seem sorry, with all the attention and gestures. But yes, he does need to talk, if that is what you need for this to be worked out. I find some people are better able to do than to talk, but if talking is needed, talking it must be.

It's so weird, the way he can't focus on you when others are around. Is he socially anxious? Maybe you don't actually fall off the radar, but he's so nervous about pleasing the other, less familiar people that he blanks on the one he's most comfortable with. He knows you love him, so it subconsciously becomes all about making a likable impression on others? Yikes. I just don't know.
 
Good for you, Fidelia! I'm so glad you have made some decisions and are continuing to pick away at budging that elephant out of there. I wonder if this has brought up issues from his past marriages around infidelity, and that is why he is having a hard time looking at the thing. Perhaps it is a bigger fear than was first realized. I agree, no poly until that elephant is gone.

Any word from your friend?
 
Yeah I'm interested about what happened to Star and this issue. I'd be sad if your friendship has suffered over this. I'm not excusing your husband for what he did, but it does sound like he's gone all out to re-affirm his love and care for you, which is nice. If he was truly ignoring the issue, he wouldn't have done that and shrugged his shoulders and told you to get over it already.
It's so weird the way he can't focus on you when others are around. Is he socially anxious? Maybe you don't actually fall off the radar, but he's so nervous about pleasing the other, less familiar people that he blanks on the one he's most comfortable with. He knows you love him, so it subconsciously becomes all about making a likable impression on others?
My partner has been guilty of this before. She is someone who is very anxious about what other people think of her, but when it hits the fan she roars to my defense or side. She never had a truly secure relationship with a partner before. She knows I'm always with her 100%, but of course doesn't have that feeling about other people, so she does tend to try and please them, rather than me, in some settings. I have learned that this is really about her insecurity around others, rather than me, so I don't take it personally.
 
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