Just LR

FWB/Boundaries/Unnecessary drama

*hand palm*

Maca had a major insecurity moment. I was already asleep. So he took it upon himself to contact Panther himself. They had a mostly reasonable conversation. But near the end (it was long and by text-which he forwarded me the next day) he said some things that were really cruel and unnecessary.

Suffice it to say; that pissed me off on two fronts.

First; if I am interested in someone; I want the privilege of telling them myself. He didn't TELL HIM I was interested. But he opened the conversation with "Are you wanting a sexual relationship with my wife". This man has been a CLOSE friend of mine since childhood. 25 years this month actually. He was involved in my closest circle for 10 years before Maca and I started dating...
He's never been secretive about his sexual attraction to me (but never acted on it). Likewise; I have never been secretive about my sexual attraction to him, but never acted on it.
I felt like Maca totally undermined my rights as an individual to decide when and how I express my interest in changing a relationship form. I had been honest with Maca; when I requested the opportunity to change this friendship to a fwb dynamic (as per our boundary agreement we can have fwb-but we don't just change the status of a friendship without talking to each other).
But I had asked him to NOT talk to my friend about it, explaining that I wanted to be sure he and I were on the same page BEFORE I brought it up to my friend.

Sigh

Then the added insulting comments near the end. Boiled my blood. I point blank told him he owed my friend an apology.

I woke yesterday morning to an odd text from each of them and found out what had happened. It was a royally frustrating way to start the day. One of them asleep (works nights) the other just going to work and a drama left in the wake of their conversation for me to sort through.

Panther called (he almost NEVER calls-prefers text) when he woke up. He was cold as ice. (go figure). He didn't understand why he was being confronted when he has never done anything to put ANY relationship I've ever had at risk. He was seriously hurt and offended over the last comment. He told me point blank, he wanted to space to lick his wounds. I understand and told him so.
Maca doesn't know the history-he's never cared to REALLY get to know my friends. They come over regularly, they are in close contact with me and the kids. They try to reach out to him. But he's not social and he keeps his distance.
Anyway-Panther had an abusive childhood. His dad died unexpectedly while we were in high school, not too long after I had Spicy Pea and he went wild with the sudden freedom. He maintained a relationship with me and Spicy (he calls her his little flower). But he kept his wild-side life away from both of us (which I greatly appreciate).
But there's a price to be paid for living in those circles. Bad relationships, broken hearts, lost friends, added to the struggle of finding work that will cover expenses when you haven't finished school. He's been burned and he's been hurt. He's never let any of that slither into my life.

Maca's accusations hit him in the heart. He felt like all of his efforts to be there for me, for the kids, to be friendly to Maca (he AGAIN invited him to go out for a beer the day before I left) were all unseen by Maca. They aren't-it's just that what Maca see's is ONLY that he is "competition" because he knows I'm attracted to him.

Sigh.
What a fucking clusterfuck.

Anyway-I listened, I let him vent. He recounted pretty much everything from high school to current. Stories I already know of course. But the common theme of them all is being told he isn't good enough. :(
When he was calming down I quietly reminded him; I'm not one of those people. I've never said or done those things to him and I don't think that of him. I know him. I know he's made some stupid choices. Who hasn't? He's been working his ass off to get his life back after the last major break up (he left state, got hitched, was raising her kids with her and found out she was doing illegal shit-left everything he owned behind to come home).

I pointed out to Maca-his financial "issues" (ie not making much money) aren't an issue because we aren't considering him as a roommate, he never, not ever asks me for money. He knows damn good and well that Maca makes $40/hour more than him. He won't even let me give him $5 for gas when he's given me a ride to/from school! In 25 years, he's NEVER asked me for a penny. He has his needs met. He takes care of himself.

His previous gf's aren't pertinent either. They aren't my business (or Maca's). I know about all of them. Because he and I are pea's in a pod in so many ways and we talk openly about our lovers.

I listened until he calmed down. Reminded him that the world is what it is, but that doesn't mean he has to react to the insults. He doesn't want to see/talk to Maca. Maca did send an apology text. But Maca feels like he was "just being honest" and Panther feels like he was being insulting. I would say-it was both-but it's NOT NECESSARY to be insulting in your honesty.
I can't do anything to help sort that shit out.

In the meantime; I'm frustrated by the UNNECESSARY drama of it all. (this is rhetorical cause I know the answer) I can't help but think "WHAT is the point of me talking to Maca in advance if he's going to go off half cocked ANYWAY".
ARGH!

Between Maca and I; he wants to add additional restrictions to our boundaries regarding FWB. The current agreement is "Friend With Benefits-
Already ok’d by SO
May see 2-3 times a week.
Alone time date no more than one per week.
Romantic dates ok.
With SO permission, invite to family time ok.
SO welcome to join anytime.
Anytime in group, we remain coupled with SO.
Physical affection limited in front of SO with discretion."
It allows for: fondling, making out, sex in person or via internet, kissing, cuddling, caressing, holding hands, personalized sex talk, sexy pics...

we require std testing in advance with anyone we get sexual with &
use of condoms.
He wants to add using protection during oral sex & using protection between Maca and I for the first 6 months....
AND "I don't want to know about it".

Um... ok.
(I did ask him the following; just haven't gotten a reply as of yet)
How exactly does THAT work? Does he want to just have protected sex for the next 6 months cause he doesn't want to know?

Cause-I haven't even talked to Panther about HAVING sex. We aren't THERE.

I had told Maca; my key interest at this point was having the freedom to be able to share flirtatious conversation and sexy photos. I don't even know for myself if I am up for anything further much less if Panther is....
I don't have an issue with his additions. AS LONG AS he's ok with it being across the board added to the boundaries. If he wants me to meet that standard of safer sex; then he will have to as well at such time as he decides he's going to be sexually involved with someone...
But-I know him fairly well and I can't begin to imagine him being ok with those restrictions.
He has another restriction-no anal sex. That one is arbitrary. I don't know exactly what the point was of him bringing it up.
I tore SO badly with the last baby-that isn't ever going to be on my list of things to do with a lover. He knows this quite well. It won't happen. I know HE will do it with any woman he is involved with and whatever. It is what it is. It bothered me a lot at first, because I felt like a total failure. But whatever. I have a beautiful daughter and the rest is life. I got over that one somewhere along the line.

In the meantime; my gut feeling is that these additional restrictions are going to come back to bite him in the ass. I can readily agree to them. They don't bother me. But they will bother the holy hell out of him...... :rolleyes:
 
Spicy Pea

She saw the specialist. The baby is ok. It appears that positioning is the biggest issue. They spent over an hour with the ultrasound. It was a struggle to get baby to re-position where they could see what they needed to see. But heart seems fine and so does facial structure. We got the FIRST ultrasound pic of baby's face. :) She was sucking on her fingers. So cute.

HOWEVER-there's a hole in Spicy's cervix-that is what the first tech was seeing. Dr's said no way, no how is she going into labor because the risk of hemorrhage (bleeding out) is too high. They are scheduling her for a c-section just before Christmas. About 1 month early. They intend to send baby to the NICU to be screened for everything possible and ensure she's ok. But they don't want to risk mommy not making it.

So-still a bit of stressful news. But overall-VERY good news and Spicy is VERY relieved. She sounded SOOO much better when she called. :) Now she's getting excited about the baby.
I've looked at SO much baby stuff while I was down here. But I haven't purchased anything. I didn't want to buy anything and then have it all fall apart at the end.
 
GG

GG got a new job-with his old employer. Started yesterday. Seems to be enjoying that and the alone time with Sour Pea. We've texted some, talked a few times.
I emailed him about wanting a fwb and explained. He has some insecurities, but pretty much is take on it was that what I am wanting; in his mind is reasonable between friends and he isn't worried about it.
He has concerns about the specific person; IF it goes to sex, because he's concerned about them getting their heart broken when I leave (which I AM doing).
But he recognizes that there is a strong bond between Panther and I & that we have a lot in common in terms of our sexual interests. Also he recognizes that Panther is much like Nyc actually lol! He prefers to keep his own place, not be "tied down" in a relationship. Which makes him a perfect fit for what I am wanting.

Anyway-we'll see.

GG is still struggling with asking me for answers/information that he could find on his own with a little effort. I've been concentrating on NOT giving him the answers, reminding him that he needs to go do that himself.

It's ok to say "hey-i've tried xyz but I can't figure it out can you help" but it's not ok to just go straight to me for an answer without making a concerted effort to find one on your own!
 
Sounds like mostly good news -- other than Maca going a little wonky.
 
Yes. Mostly good news & two awesome days spent alone in the sun. I enjoyed the refresher.
Maca replied tonight that he assumed when an std test was shown that would be when the 6 months of lrotection between us started. K.

BUT-until the conflic was resolved between them (over what he said) he wasn't ok with fwb at all.
I commented in response that it seems to me that he is being vindictive because he already stated that if we move to fwb he wants no social contact with Panther. He knows panther is hurt because he was disparaging to him. So why rub salt in the wound? Why try to force him to humble himself when he didnt DO anything wrong?
Im irritated by his holier than thou attitude.
I dont know.

I think he is trying to prove his manhood by making panther kiss his ass. A) it wont work-it wont happen.
B) its childish and only shows how childish he can be.

Not very impressed right now
 
Bleah, it sounds like he needs to spend a buck and buy a clue.
 
Home

So many things to say-but its almost 4 am. I have been up 24 hours (again). I am SO glad to be home!

Sweet pea was waiting up for me. I missed that kid SO MUCH! We slent hours talking and reconnecting.
 
GG got a new job-with his old employer. Started yesterday. Seems to be enjoying that...

Well, what do you know? Congrats to GG, and I hope his job helps his/your family finances!

I emailed him about wanting a fwb and explained.

You emailed Maca? Is that what you meant? GG's opinions on your new developments with Panther do not concern you, right?

He has some insecurities, but pretty much is take on it was that what I am wanting; in his mind is reasonable between friends and he isn't worried about it.
He has concerns about the specific person; IF it goes to sex, because he's concerned about them getting their heart broken when I leave (which I AM doing).

If you leave Panther? I don't understand.



... two awesome days spent alone in the sun. I enjoyed the refresher.

Yay for me-time and SUN!

Maca replied tonight that he assumed when an std test was shown that would be when the 6 months of lrotection between us started. K.

BUT-until the conflic was resolved between them (over what he said) he wasn't ok with fwb at all.
I commented in response that it seems to me that he is being vindictive because he already stated that if we move to fwb he wants no social contact with Panther. He knows panther is hurt because he was disparaging to him. So why rub salt in the wound? Why try to force him to humble himself when he didnt DO anything wrong?
Im irritated by his holier than thou attitude.
I dont know.

I think he is trying to prove his manhood by making panther kiss his ass. A) it wont work-it wont happen.
B) its childish and only shows how childish he can be.

Not very impressed right now

Well, we all know how Maca is. He was jealous of mild mannered GG for decades. Now he's got this new guy to get used to. It's hard for him to share you. You two have got your work cut out for you. I wish he had more brain to mouth filter, but what can you do?

How do you know, if/when you and Panther start to have sex, that the r'ship will remain at FWB status? I hear you say he is independent, but are you? How often would you two be able to be physically together? Does he live in Alaska? Or if not, does he travel a lot?
 
Just a quick, short reply-more when I catch up on sleep.

Panther and i have been good friends for 25+ yrs. he is well known by the family.
I did mention it to GG, because even if we aren't an item, we are family & it has potential to affect him as well. I really don't do the "just jump in and do whatever" attitude. I try to take everyones feelings and needs into consideration.

Panther does live in Alaska. We frequently meet to go hiking, walking, coffee, lunch (during school we usually meet once or twice a week for a 5-7 mile walk). We have the capacity to continue seeing each other regularly.
BUT the opportunity for sexual time together would be more limited. Maca and I have an agreement to not have sex with others in our home while we are both home. Thus-if he is gone, I have that option. When he is home, I don't because my schedule of availability coincides with his time home.
But-Panther & I are less interested in sex & more interested in sharing erotic photos/videos.
 
Panther

He is not interested in being "tied down"
I am not as independent, but I already HAVE a full time partner in Maca. I dont feel a need to have more.
We already do have a close loving familial relationship. We have a lot of shared history. We always have been very affectionate and had a sexual tension between us. He spent many hours watching me as a dancer.

Shrug

I feel somewhat burned by the situation with GG. I don't want another live in bf at this time.
Either way-even if I wanted it, its not an option any more.
 
OMG!
I really am sick of the passive-aggressive "pouting and being obviously sad and mopey around you because I want you to be lovey dovey with me" game.
UGH

Seriously?
Deal with your shit and get the fuck over it already!

I kept my mouth shut.
The tv (huge ass flat screen tv) was BACK upstairs in the ONLY window that sunlight can come into the house through. The window that was installed FOR ME. After the last go around when I went off about it (it GOES in the garage redesigned into a family room). But because we are all gone-GG keeps putting it upstairs in the living room.

The house was a DISASTER. It will take me at least a week to get it cleaned up again.

Shit piled up all over MY DESK. NO ONE ELSE USES IT. It's MINE. My school work. The bills I HANDLE. MY DESK. I had to clean it off-there was ALL SORTS of shit including used tissues ALL OVER IT.

My plants were all left outside (frozen). Even though THEY BELONG in the front window (go figure) where the damn tv was (which DOES NOT belong there).

I am so tired of everything being rearranged and jacked up when I am gone-and having to fix it all when I return. It takes weeks to get it all back in order-only to happen AGAIN.
 
I am gathering that GG is the culprit here?

He's got a new job now -- excellent -- one less thing -- now, how about his promise to get his own place to live in? Is that going to happen? Is there a deadline you can depend on?

Does he have part-ownership on the house, or any other legal hooks in it? Is he technically just a renter? Can you serve him an eviction notice? give him a deadline that law enforcement will back up for you if necessary?

From your post, it seems to me that it is really unhealthy -- for all of you including GG -- for him to continue to share your domicile. I hope he (too) understands that.

I imagine it's no picnic, drawing a hard line in the sand with GG; you care about him and you know he's accustomed to depending on you. But you can't respond to his passive aggression in kind; you've got to be firm and direct.

I hope that things will soon fall into place.
 
Seriously, it would not occur to me to keep moving a big TV from one room to another. For once special event like a party or something maybe, but not just because others are gone.
 
Dick move

The shit just keeps rolling out.
Every damn day of the week.

He has no ownership or rights to claim on the house. The date is january 1st. If he isnt out Im not calling the troopers. I am going to start flinging shit out windows.

Spicy ended up in the er today with baby. I had the grandkids. (she is ok and home again now).

Several friends came by concerned. Including Panther. He proceeded to entertain Sour Pea, put a movie on and curled up with her and Seeet Pea (who was a WRECK worrying about his older sister who he thinks the sun rises and falls over) on the couch to give me a small break.
FRIEND MOVE
Nothing more. Nothing less.

GG opts to text Maca about it. He KNOWS we are in negotiation. He KNOWS Maca is always insecure and worried when he is isolated away.

I haven't lied to Maca. I have been forthright. But he asked me this morning to not bring up who I was socializing with the rest of the week. He said he is really struggling and just needs the reassurance of my attention bein on him when we talk & I agreed. Less than half an hour later our daughter was in the emergency room.
Maca also found out today he is being sent somewhere more remote-no cell/internet available from wed-sat. He is stressed out with work and having a shitty week. Feeling guilty for not being here to deal with the bs going down here and worried about his daughter.

But GG only thinks about his own shit. He apologized to me. I already heard from Maca and knew. Maca shut off his phone and is unreachable until God knows when now.

My thought is: I should have just stuck with women. Because this is utterly and entirely FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

I am SO done with all of the bullshit.

And as for the tv-I cant imagine readranging SOMEONE ELSE'S SHIT EVERY TIME THEY LEAVE either. It is an obstinate and flagerant show of disrespect.

He needs to get the fuck out and grow the fuck up
 
dick move Or move Dick ? The title caught my eye. Sorry you're having a rough time I'm going to have go back and catch up on the details/ drama. Sounds like Pena colada date night have been put on indefinite hold. I hope the ER run was resolved quickly and to everyone's satisfaction....and that mother and child are home safe and sound.
 
Are you going to be able to make it until Jan. 1st? This is driving you bananas, and with the lack of sunlight coming up, I can't imagine this stress doing anything but getting worse. Please remember to do what's right for you.

Glad Spicy's home safe and OK.

And looking in from the outside, I don't think I could facepalm any harder without pushing my nose through the back of my head. Moving a TV? Who does that?! :confused: And I don't understand the motivation behind the text... if he knows you and Maca have been talking about it, and that he's asked you not to talk about it right now, why stir the pot (unless he thinks he's helping somehow)?

I dunno, LR... I'm sorry you're dealing with all this stress. Here's hoping you get some more time in the sun for yourself through it all.
 
This is getting ridiculous.

Moving a large TV by himself, could've broken it.

Covering up the large window you need for light therapy? Harmful.

Moving your plants outside to freeze? Selfish and downright aggressive.

Leaving many things, including used (cum soaked?) tissues on YOUR desk?

Trashing the entire house?

Tattling to Maca about Panther coming over to help with the kids?

What more do you need, LR? Throw his shit out the window and change those locks, NOW. Let him freeze outside in the cold alongside the plants he killed.
 
There was no reason for the text at least not at that moment. It said "now I know what you felt like when you saw LR and I cuddling on the couch because Panther was here when I got home from work..."

When you got home from work and our oldest child was in the hospital being drugged and monitored to stop preterm labor! (A child who just so happens to be as close to Panther as she is to GG. He has been in her life since conception. Changed her first diapers. )
Oh wait-

Maybe you decided it was a great momet to start shit because the night prior Maca sent you a text telling you that the hovering barely an inch from my elbow with puppy dog eyes, walking in my room uninvited and generally invading my oersonal space was negatively impacting my mental health & you needed to BACK THE FUCK OFF because he was NOT in a position to deal with me being hospitalized right now. Hmmmm.

Yeah-I call bullshit.
I call passive agressive retaliation tactics that are so obvious they are fucking textbook!

For the record; Maca msg'd be about 11pm to apologize for "failing you. I couldnt handle more. I needed a break. Im sorry everything is so out of control right now."

But good grief.

I see the whole disaster I came home to as a passive aggressive way of expressing his anger and hurt over me telling him to move out. There are wall hangings that have sat in boxes well over 6 years that he hung in my absence. Um.... MOVING OUT. Why hang them when you are leaving. The tv was wired through the room it belongs in for surround sound speakers, a dvd player, an xbox, and laptop. Moving it is a FIASCO. And guess who doesnt know the cords? Me and he is WELL AWARE.
Its a passive aggressive attack.
Last night was a total dick move to Maca.

When spicy had her first baby, her husband was out of state. The single person she wanted and needed at her side was Maca. He remained at her side for over 42 hours to ensure she had no moment without his support.
Yesterday she is rushed to the emergency room.
Um yeah-this is NOT upper level college logic.
Maca is twisted up inside because he cant be here.
Sweet pea was a complete wreck. It took hours of diligent and pointed effort for Panther and I to get him calmed down. And he is generally a VERY calm and serene kid, he and I are extremely close, he and Panther are close. He ended up curled up with Panther and the 7 year old on the couch finally, I sat on the floor, he held my hand and had his legs around me (Sweet Pea) and his head on Pantyers shoulder. Clingy 14 year old.
Sourpea started on my lap but I kept having to deal with grandbabies. She ended up on the couch on panthers other side, pulled his arm around herself and over her chest, kept kissing his hand nervously, cuddled down close until she was falling asleep.
Peanut was in Grammys lap until we got word mommy was ok and daddy would be home in half hour.
Coconut was fine-but he is only 18 months old.
I got dinner made for everyone.
My other gery close friend came by immediately after work as well to help with kids, check on me because she knows I have been having anxiety issues since I got home & the delression issues are always just under the surface. She and Panther talked and played with kids and helped out until we got all of them calmed down and watching a Disney movie.
Panther drive the grandkids home.

Today I am still in my room. Waiting for GG to leave for work. Then I will get the kids thru chores and breakfast followed by piano lessons. After lessons I drop Sweet pea off at a friends because they have shooting team. I will pick him up about 9pm.
I was SUPPOSED to take Sour Pea and Peanut hiking and then to the park with Panther in town-but that was before he rushed out to help in the crisis yesterday. So I cancelled.
Im not sure yet what SourPea and I will do. Im at a loss. She wants to go to town and play with panther at the park. She likes the male attention, that he can swing her around in the air (I cant) and jist having what she is missin out on with daddy gone. But I dont want to create more drama. So stupid.
Anyway-she and I will figure something out. Peanut will be devastated if I don't take him. But they both need one on one attention right now. They are both high strung over not having any attention while the family has been running, pregnancy and my son in law working required emergency overtime all summer, Maca gone, me gone a lot. The kids are ALL needing EXTRA attention and affection. But I am stillssriously shorthanded trying to fulfil it.
 
I can see why Panther's help is needed at this time.

If nothing else, I'd be tempted to tell GG the deadline has changed. He now has til November 1 to leave. And I'd serve him an official eviction notice -- not because I planned to call upon law enforcement, but so that he'd know that I could if he tried anything funny. I seem to remember an eviction notice has to give the tenant one month to move so, November 1 would be about right.

I mean, what if his behavior gets worse between now and January 1?
 
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