Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Introductions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-14-2019, 06:10 PM
MayDecember MayDecember is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 134
Default

Blame the victim.

Withhold information deemed worthy of raging about, justify leaving that information out on the basis it is nobody's business...

then rage at them because they don't know what you consciously omitted.

I think we have identified the problem. It doesn't have to do with Poly.

At the risk of you raging at me, ambushing me for not knowing key information you withheld:

The rules you listed do not constitute a poly relationship. I am inferring (shame on me, right?) that it is an attempt to ease into Poly gradually.

The more I think about it, the more clear it is that leaving out information, explaining that you ramble incoherently, and then punishing people for trying to help under those circumstances... why bother?

That's a question.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:43 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 7,076
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDecember View Post
Blame the victim.

Withhold information deemed worthy of raging about, justify leaving that information out on the basis it is nobody's business...

then rage at them because they don't know what you consciously omitted.

I think we have identified the problem. It doesn't have to do with Poly.

At the risk of you raging at me, ambushing me for not knowing key information you withheld:

The rules you listed do not constitute a poly relationship. I am inferring (shame on me, right?) that it is an attempt to ease into Poly gradually.

The more I think about it, the more clear it is that leaving out information, explaining that you ramble incoherently, and then punishing people for trying to help under those circumstances... why bother?

That's a question.
She bothered because she wanted us to advise her on how to change the goals of her partner from, "Wants monogamy, house, kids, shorter commute," to, "Willing and eager to let this partner whom I want to be the mother of my children to instead 'explore sexual chemistry' with younger man, putting house and kids and monogamy on the back burner, if not forgoing them altogether."

When we didn't help her further her goals of changing the entire life plans and goals of her partner of 9 years (with the biological clock not just ticking, but clanging), so that she could have sex with enticing younger man (who, btw, is willing to just be friends that meet once a year, and does NOT want to come between her and Rick), she flounced.

I guess she imagined we established polyamorists would put poly ahead of all other goals, and all other identities and preferences. Surprise! We don't.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my partner since January 2009, living together full time 6 years
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-17-2019, 04:06 PM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 3,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiasResistance View Post
I asked for advice, specific to how I can help Rick deal with feeling more secure, presumably from people familiar with situations similar to my own. I came here to find tools to help me deal with a very personal, very complicated set of emotions that I donít have any real-world examples of how to work out.
I'm glad you're not choosing to bail out of the forum, GR. You're a good communicator, I think, and we need you (and people like you) here to help us sustain a good, safe and kind space for sharing.

In reading your OP, my impression is that there are two major topics and some relatively minor ones. The major topics (as I'm seeing it) are about
  • whether Rick might possibly relax about his preference for monogamy with you and decide to open the relationship up, allowing you to explore other possible bonds.
  • whether your desire or need to explore a more open, poly way of life is a minor or major facet of who you are and what you really need in life.

If you can live happily with Rick in a monogamous relationship, but have a minor desire or need to open things up and explore polyamory, that'd be something quite different from having a very major need to open things up.

I'm in the early "dating" (very early!) stages of exploring a new relationship with a man for whom he was so deeply desirous of living a poly way of life that he said he was willing to let his otherwise happy and successful marriage of more than twenty years come undone because of this. His wife was recently just not even able or willing to talk about his desire for polyamory. If the topic came up she'd say she felt sick to her stomach and would leave the room. They almost split up during the month I've been talking with my new friend, but she eventually got around to saying she wants to work on her stuff around this and explore opening things up rather than to lose him in divorce. So I know first hand of a case where the need or desire to explore polyamory can be so strong that folks will even allow an otherwise happy marriage end to follow powerful desire.

If you're more like my new friend in this way than someone who can take it or leave it with regard to polyamory, there may be some very difficult, challenging times ahead in your relationship with Rick. And you can't know whether Rick can or will heal from his wounds from previous relationships and open up to polyamory as an option again. But you can get clear on how important poly is to you. Mike's presence in your life may not be the crucial thing here(?). Or maybe it is? Maybe it would have been some other guy (or gal), had it not been Mike, to initiate your inquiry about whether poly could or should be an option to explore?

I know about myself that if I'm in a very long term relationship which his happy and healthy, I'm eventually going to want to explore other relationships Ö without having to end the initial one. For me, this desire would not be (and has not been) a minor note in my life. It's a deep need for me. I'm just not cut out for monogamy! It's too constraining. I'm happiest in being completely free to explore other connections. It was a deep need before I met anyone in particular I wanted to explore more deeply with. So I did not have a "Mike" to bring it about. I just had this desire / need for other connections besides the one I have with my very long term sweetheart.

Luckily for me, my very long term partner is fine with my "dating" other people (!!), so nothing has to break for me to make other connections. I'm not sure I'd end my relationship with K over my need to connect with others, but I'm sure glad that's not a choice I'll have to make! I imagine I might become very, very conflicted if forced to make such a choice. It would not be fun! It would hurt.

As for how you might help Rick explore his feelings Ö his wounds and associated fears Ö with the hope that he might move in an opening up direction? I can only say that the best and most you can do is to love him so thoroughly and so well that he can't doubt that love or your commitment to your loving bond with one another. But that may not be enough. Wounds are often hard to get close to, and one cannot work with them at too much of a distance. So he'll need your loving support in learning how to get up close enough to the hurt in the wound that the wound can be healed. Usually, adult wounds to the heart are woven together with childhood wounds to the heart, so getting close to the adult wound brings up unresolved stuff from the earlier trauma or hurt. And the best guide I personally know of for exploring this stuff (outside of therapy) is the writings of John Welwood.

http://www.johnwelwood.com/listofbooks.htm

I would recommend that the two of you read some of Welwood's books together, and to discuss them as you do so. Chapter by chapter.

Now, many men would simply refuse to engage in such an exercise. Many men have been raised up in such a way that they respond to "touchy-feely" (sensitivity) stuff with disdain and disgust (fear, avoidance). I hope your guy isn't one of these!
__________________
male, bisexual & biamorous
1 long term male partner of many years.
1 newly forming additional connection (maybe?).
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-15-2019, 02:11 PM
GaiasResistance GaiasResistance is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 8
Default

I made my last post in early March before a whole new set of craptastic circumstances hit my household that threw everything else to the background. At the time I thought I’d take a while and come back in a few weeks or so, but then well, Life, ya know? Then I stopped getting email notifications for new replies on here, and so had No Idea there was more discussion happening, until I checked back a few weeks ago.

MayDec, with the exception of using trigger-language as a starting point, and making one hell of an assumption about me, I tried to take what you were saying as constructively as possible, even the sarcasm and snark.

I’m the “victim” here, because I responded to Mags by saying I felt attacked, and judged. Beyond admitting to mixing up names from different posters, and acknowledging that she doesn’t need certain detailed information, I have yet to see any attempt to correct my perception, or apology. I’m not holding my breath.

I don’t know what tone filter you read through, MayDec, and you don’t know me so please take this at face value, but my last post was nowhere near “rage” level. I reserved those feelings for reacting privately to Mags last reply, which I did not, and have not, put down in text. I’m ignoring her now because I get angry all over again when I think about how she responded to your post.

The fact that you made me out to be “the problem”, which was bad enough on its own, seemed to embolden her to pass even more judgement on me in her reply. I wasn’t even given a chance to respond to that myself, assuming I’d got the notification about your reply and needed time to articulate why I would bother to want to try poly/be on here at all. But Mags was there to answer for me with trolling sarcasm, preconceived notions, assumptions, and judgments. None of which had any shred of truth to them.

I’m done responding to her, or anyone else coming on here with similar approaches to what otherwise could be civil discourse. From now on, shit like that gets ignored and, when possible, reported. I am willing to take on the burden of responding to valid criticisms, answering and clarifying what I am able to, as long as those engaging are able to do so with respect.

It may be a while before I can answer your question, and your post also River, which I fully intend to do.

Last edited by GaiasResistance; 04-15-2019 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-15-2019, 05:13 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 984
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiasResistance View Post

I want to help Rick get past, or work through his insecurities. He doesnít have anyone in his life that he trusts enough to share what heís going through in this, and I donít know how to help him.

Would it be equally fair for Rick to want to help you get past your inability or unwillingness to overlook a hot young guy?

By saying you want to help him, you are saying there is something wrong with him, something lacking, something that needs fixing. In fact, you are very clear: he's 'insecure.'

1. it sounds to me like he simply does not want poly. You are refusing to hear that and accept it. You are, instead, deciding that he really would want what you want if only you could fix him. No, it sounds like he doesn't want poly. That's not a flaw in him that needs fixing. It's a valid choice and it is his to make.

2. The hard cold truth is that plenty of marriages/long term relationships do break up with one spouse leaving the other for their poly partner. Do some reading on this forum and you'll find plenty of them.

So this isn't 'insecurity' that needs 'fixing' on his part. It's a very real possibility and he's wise to look at it. For him to see that this could happen is not a problem that needs fixing. It's reality and he should be taking it into account.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiasResistance View Post
I donít even know if what I want, or think I might be able to have with Mike is anything that could last. Mainly I worry that itís all NRE with nowhere to go based on the rules that are in place for the next 8-10 months.
Few Vs last beyond 2.5 years and fewer still past 5 years. Chances are very, very high that if you have a poly relationship with Mike, within 5 years either Mike or Rick will no longer be a partner.

So really you need to decide if it's more important to you to be with someone to whom you've committed nearly a decade or if you'd rather have the younger pastures. Rick is not enthused about poly and pushing it on him probably is not going to get you what you want.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:22 PM.