New poly relationship - both of us new to poly - being open, caring & ethical

Infinity

New member
Hello there.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Have been out of relationships for a few years. All previous relationships were monogamous. After last relationship, decided I am more poly-leaning and wish to try (and learn more about) this lifestyle.

Have recently fallen in love with one of my long-time best friends, and he with me. Previous to beginning this relationship (only a few weeks old) we had a few conversations where I expressed to him that any future relationships I would want

'To be free to explore other relationships if / as they come up, and have more than one committed relationship, in love, sex, romance type relationship in my life at their a time. I'd also want any future partners to be ok with this and they be free to explore other relationships (whether that be more committed long term thing like I am interested in or casual sex if that's their thing). I'd want enough communication to keep everyone sexually safe and emotionally well. My ideal would be being able to have my partners be friends or at least be happy and nice around each other. It doesn't make sense to me to have one 'main' partner in my life.'

This was the general conversation we had where I was just sharing with him as a friend, chatting about relationships.

Since we have gotten together, he has expressed that this is something in general that he is happy with. However, that he doesn't think he would date more than one person at once, but he knows the door is open for him to if he wishes. He has also said that before me, this lifestyle is not something he has considered, so he needs time to think about it, learn more and see how he feels as we go along. I am also learning more and seeing how I feel as we go along.

We are not starting this as a closed relationship and moving to open - we are in an open relationship. Therefore as two people new to this, we want to make some agreements for us, which can at least be in place while we explore more options. These are agreements to keep us safe sexually and emotionally.

Here is our current plan:

1. In two weeks (now about a week and a half) we have both decided what we'd like to be informed of if the other has sexual interaction with another person. We discuss this and see if we agree / negotiate.

2. We've both ordered a copy of opening up - we read it over the next 3 months then discuss again where we are.

Here are my questions:

1. For sexual disclosure of other persons, what are the sexual acts that would need to be disclosed to me in terms of 'this could put you at risk of STDs if your current sexual partner did XYZ'? I know that any touching of the genitals to other genitals would (vagina/penis/anus in any combo), and any mouth to genitals would. Does manual stimulation (fingering, hand jobs) if hands are washed afterwards and not put in mouth before washing? What about kissing? What about genital to genital or oral to genital but with a barrier (like a Condom)?

2. Do most people require some sort of disclosure if a partner has done any of the above acts (if your partner is into more casual thing, or if they have met a new partner), or do you just agree with your partner 'if you do any of those things with someone else, get tested before you do any of them with me?'

3. I'm really not sure what to ask my partner for in terms of disclosing sexual contact he may have with other people re: acts that do NOT fall into the 'tell me so I can protect my health' category. For instance, if he is falling in love with someone else, do require to know for myself, emotionally, or is that something I'd like him to feel he can share with me but doesn't have to? What about if he fingers someone and he is not at risk of STD? What if he cuddles someone and falls asleep in their bed with them and stays the night? I'd love other people's opinions and thoughts on this...

4. I feel there is an ethical imperative to share with other potential lovers that we are in a relationship, but it is open. Rather than behaving like a single person. I feel this even if it is just a casual sex thing (he is more likely to do the casual thing than me), the other person(s) has the right to know 'I am having sex with someone in an open relationship' rather than 'I am having a night of casual sex with a single person'. What is the best (or at least, a succinct and good) way to be up-front about this? Also, I can require this of myself, but I can only ask him his opinion on this. Thoughts?

5. I have been open about my poly leanings to a few close friends and currently only one family member. I love introducing my boyfriend as 'my boyfriend', but I want to also make it clear to people 'I am still open to awesome relationships if they come my way' (I'm not actively looking though). How can I do both of these - introduce him as my amazing boyfriend, but be clear that I'm still available and yet not diminish what we have? I feel like 'this is my boyfriend, but I'm still open to other relationships' or 'this is my boyfriend but we're not exclusive' can have the feeling of 'this relationship doesn't mean much' when said to monogamous people. I dont want it to come across that way, and I would like to be totally clear when we're at a social event or talking to people who are just meeting 'us'. Ideas / thoughts / feelings / suggestions?

6. Is there anything I haven't thought of that I should be bringing up now, early on in the relationship, that would be beneficial to us both to be discussing now?

Thanks very much. By the way he is on this forum and will read this thread and your replies.

Infinity.
 
Regarding falling in love with someone, I don't think it's possible, with a healthy relationship to NOT know that your partner is in love with someone else. I can't even fathom it being possible for that to escape my notice.

I wouldn't require it as a rule, unless you both are long distance, one is oblivious towards emotional sorts of things like that, or some other complicating factor.

I think you'll just know :)
 
If you've previously told people you are poly, I don't think you need to mention it again when introducing your boyfriend.
 
Regarding falling in love with someone, I don't think it's possible, with a healthy relationship to NOT know that your partner is in love with someone else. I can't even fathom it being possible for that to escape my notice.

I wouldn't have thought so either, except it kind of sort of happened to me. TheKnight and I met our exes at the same time, and I was so busy falling in love with mine and trying really hard not to that him thinking he was in love with her completely escaped my notice. I was pretty sure he wasn't, in fact. (Though to be honest I'm still not sure he was, but that's hindsight...)
 
As far as disclosing sexual activity, personally I want to know if Hubby or S2 has ANY type of sexual interaction with another partner, regardless of whether it's something that could impact sexual health. I don't need to know details, but if it's anything beyond hugging and kissing, I want to know it's happened.

On the other hand, if one of them were to tell me they'd had some kind of sexual interaction with someone else and he then continued seeing that person, I would presume they're continuing to have sex. He wouldn't have to tell me *every* time, just the first time.

We have agreements in place that I will be informed if either of them even starts looking for another partner, as well as if they have a date and/or have some kind of sex. We also have agreements in place that neither of them will have condomless sex with anyone *other* than me until the other partner has been tested. (I'd prefer not even then, but that isn't really my call.)

All of the above is currently a nonissue; our V is closed. But I think it's important to decide up front what the boundaries are and what information you want/need to share, so there are no misunderstandings, miscommunications, or dishonesty in the future.

As far as informing other potential partners that you are in an open/polyamorous relationship... to me, that's a no-brainer. Keeping that information from another partner would be dishonest, and therefore unethical, in my opinion. In my case, my profile on the dating site I belong to (which is where I met Hubby and S2) clearly states that I am both married and "attached"; Hubby's profile--which he doesn't use for the most part anyway--says he's married; and S2's says he's "attached" in a polyamorous relationship. If any of us was seeking another partner, that site would be our most likely way of meeting others.
 
It is really great you are thinking in detail about these things in advance. It is great to have a really solid idea of what your partner wants/needs/expects to know about your other relationships.

I always tell people I am going on dates with or interested about being poly, explicitly, right up front because I don't want any confusion. I am not interested in relationships with people who aren't absolutely cool with it, nor will I play along with them cheating on another partner. I can see situations where I might have a one night stand or something where it isn't really relevant, but basically if it is someone I ever plan on seeing again, there will definitely be a discussion about poly.

My boyfriend and I don't have any "rules" but this is basically what we have discussed. I give him warning if I am going out with someone else, and will tell him if we kiss, fool around, or have sex (no details, but just that it happened) and visa versa. I would like to know if he is thinking he might have sex with someone, but he would rather not know if I am considering it beforehand, he doesn't want to know unless it has happened.

So far this has worked out wonderfully for us, and it gets less and less awkward feeling to talk about as time goes on. I feel super safe talking to him about these things, so they are easy conversations to have. I don't feel at all like I have to report to him or ask permission, but I also don't get the feeling that either of us are being secretive or withholding information.

If he sees someone more that a couple of times I am likely to ask questions along the lines of "so do you LIKE LIKE her?" and basically get a feel for if their relationship might be growing and changing. It is all A-OK, I just like to feel prepared and not blind-sided by big changes that will affect me and our relationship.
 
Hi Infinity,

Re (from OP):
"For sexual disclosure of other persons, what are the sexual acts that would need to be disclosed to me in terms of, 'This could put you at risk of STD's if your current sexual partner did XYZ?' I know that any touching of the genitals to other genitals would (vagina/penis/anus in any combo), and any mouth to genitals would. Does manual stimulation (fingering, hand jobs) if hands are washed afterwards and not put in mouth before washing? What about kissing? What about genital to genital or oral to genital but with a barrier (like a condom)?"

I'm not a doctor, but I'm thinking the answers to the above questions would be every bit as complex as the questions themselves, and more. In poly circles, you will hear much talk about fluid bonding and the use of condoms, and in *most* cases, a condom is all you need for safety. But there are all kinds of microbes out there, and each one has its own way of jumping from one host to another, as well as its own seriousness/treatability profile.

Example: Suppose I get a cold sore. I believe only people with a certain herpes virus -- herpes labialis -- can get cold sores. If I kiss someone while I have that cold sore, I might infect them with that virus. Of course, cold sores aren't very serious ... but the virus never goes away, and has no known cure. The cold sores may disappear for a week or a year, but they'll be back whenever the virus reawakens.

Are there more serious bugs that can jump mouth-to-mouth, sneak around a condom, or what have you? I think so, but honestly, you should consult a doctor about all of these things, and you should read a lot of Wikipedia articles.

By the way, one of the most dangerous kinds of "sexual exposure" is getting a drop of someone else's blood on your body. HIV can be spread that way. Dentists and their assistants have to take special precautions to prevent the spread of HIV. That's the nature of STI's in today's world. People who aren't even having sex have to worry about them.

Get educated. Know the risks, and know what level of risk you're comfortable with.

Re:
"Do most people require some sort of disclosure if a partner has done any of the above acts (if your partner is into more casual things, or if they have met a new partner), or do you just agree with your partner, 'If you do any of those things with someone else, get tested before you do any of them with me?'"

Most people are satisfied if your sex was protected with a condom. Many people want all the partners in a "poly chain" to get themselves regularly tested as well ... and different bugs have different tests, so if you want to be tested for *everything,* you have to be very specific with your doctor about that. And do you need to be tested for everything? Every test costs money. I have the cold sore virus; I already know that. So there's no need for me to get tested, for that at least.

In most cases the kind of disclosure people want and need is a heads-up on if someone has fluid-bonded (i.e., had sex without a condom) with someone. Not that you should assume that. Whenever you're thinking about initiating a sexual relationship with someone new, you should have a talk with them about STI's and how (you and) they want to manage the risks. Keep track of what kind of risk management each partner wants. Write it down if necessary.

Re:
"I'm really not sure what to ask my partner for in terms of disclosing sexual contact he may have with other people re: acts that do *not* fall into the 'tell me so I can protect my health' category."

I'm afraid you're on your own as far as figuring that out is concerned. Everyone has their own emotional comfort levels. I personally don't feel any need to know what my companions do together; I'm confident they're careful with their sexual health and that's good enough for me. But some people agonize over what their partners are doing with someone else. To get their worked up imagination to settle down, they need to hear the facts about what did and didn't happen.

Of course there can be a conflict of interest where privacy is concerned. Many people don't *want* the details of their intimate moments shared with anyone else. I personally don't care what people know about me, but lots of people do care. You have to find a balance that everyone can live with.

Re:
"If he is falling in love with someone else, do I require to know for myself, emotionally, or is that something I'd like him to feel he can share with me but doesn't have to?"

You have to ask yourself that question, and give yourself your own answer. It's nice to let him decide what to share (if you can), but maybe if you tell him it's okay, your feelings will then later reveal to you that it's not okay when the rubber meets the road. At that point you might need to re-negotiate with him.

Re:
"What about if he fingers someone and he is not at risk of STD?"

That's pretty private stuff and I'd let him keep it private if you can stand to. But as with the other questions, only you know your own emotional limits.

Re:
"What if he cuddles someone and falls asleep in their bed with them and stays the night?"

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. You don't *need* to know that ... or do you? Perhaps emotionally it's something you need to know to keep your worried imagination at bay.

Re:
"I feel there is an ethical imperative to share with other potential lovers that we are in a relationship, but it is open. Rather than behaving like a single person. I feel this even if it is just a casual sex thing, the other person(s) has the right to know, 'I am having sex with someone in an open relationship,' rather than, 'I am having a night of casual sex with a single person.'"

I totally agree.

Re:
"What is the best (or at least, a succinct and good) way to be up-front about this?"

I suppose something like, "I should let you know, I have a sexual relationship with someone else. It's an open relationship."

Re:
"Also, I can require this of myself, but I can only ask him his opinion on this. Thoughts?"

If he's going to have sex with people without telling them about you, despite your requests that he tell them, you'll just have to take that into account when you decide if you think it's ethical for you to continue in a sexual relationship with him. I guess I'd vote to cease having sex with him (though I'd hope it wouldn't come to that).

Re:
"I have been open about my poly leanings to a few close friends and currently only one family member. I love introducing my boyfriend as 'my boyfriend,' but I want to also make it clear to people, 'I am still open to awesome relationships if they come my way.' How can I do both of these -- introduce him as my amazing boyfriend, but be clear that I'm still available and yet not diminish what we have? I feel like, 'This is my boyfriend, but I'm still open to other relationships,' or, 'This is my boyfriend, but we're not exclusive,' can have the feeling of, 'This relationship doesn't mean much,' when said to monogamous people."

And to polyamorous people. "This is my boyfriend, but we're not exclusive," is a really awkward way to introduce him. If at all possible I'd recommending separating those two elements in the conversation. Start with, "This is my boyfriend," and worry about the nonmonogamous part later.

If you absolutely feel you must introduce him with the disclaimer, I suppose the least awkward delivery would be, "This is my boyfriend. We have an open relationship with each other."

Re:
"Is there anything I haven't thought of that I should be bringing up now, early on in the relationship, that would be beneficial to us both to be discussing now?"

Not that leaps right to my mind. You're going to read "Opening Up" which is a great book. Reading it may help you to become aware of some more of the questions you'd like to ask. In the meantime, keep reading on Polyamory.com, and posting about your situation. We can give you ongoing feedback.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you for the quick and informative replies everyone. You have given me some good perspective and food for thought. I'll follow up your replies with some answers / questions of my own:

Candiedlove: you're right, I think it would be unlikely for me not to notice. I was more just listing 'falling in love' as a possible thing to want disclosed, to illustrate that there are many things that could be disclosed and I wasn't sure where to start on what to ask.

Bluebird: I have only told a few, select people that I'm poly. Still finding the best way for me to say that I am, in a way that is clear and does not invite negativity. I want a way to make it clear when I meet new people who re not in my current circle.

KC43: If you don't mind, how do you define 'sexual interaction beyond hugging and kissing'? For example, if the hugging and kissing was fully clothed, but with one partner lying on top of the other, holding tight and goes for an hour - is that sexual enough to warrant telling you? What if they have cybersex, or send someone naked pictures of themselves - but there is no physical contact? What if they have a conversation about fantasies and your partner is really turned on and can't stop thinking about them and texting them after, but the other person doesn't really think anything of it? My point is, it really hard to define 'sexual interaction'.

Oreadne: similar question for you - how do you define 'fooling around'?nthat your boyfriend must disclose to you?

kdt26417: thanks for the really long reply! You make a good point re: STIs. I need to find some more detailed and comprehensive information from a medical source to be able to answer questions about what level of risk each activity provides and then determine what level of risk I am OK with exposing myself to. I am still thinking about emotional disclosure - and you're right, that's. Personal choice that I have to decide what I'm comfortable with and then talk to him bout it.

Thank you again for replies everyone. Still exploring and interested to hear what people have to share.
 
Here are my questions:

1. For sexual disclosure of other persons, what are the sexual acts that would need to be disclosed to me in terms of 'this could put you at risk of STDs if your current sexual partner did XYZ'? I know that any touching of the genitals to other genitals would (vagina/penis/anus in any combo), and any mouth to genitals would. Does manual stimulation (fingering, hand jobs) if hands are washed afterwards and not put in mouth before washing? What about kissing? What about genital to genital or oral to genital but with a barrier (like a Condom)?

2. Do most people require some sort of disclosure if a partner has done any of the above acts (if your partner is into more casual thing, or if they have met a new partner), or do you just agree with your partner 'if you do any of those things with someone else, get tested before you do any of them with me?'

3. I'm really not sure what to ask my partner for in terms of disclosing sexual contact he may have with other people re: acts that do NOT fall into the 'tell me so I can protect my health' category. For instance, if he is falling in love with someone else, do require to know for myself, emotionally, or is that something I'd like him to feel he can share with me but doesn't have to? What about if he fingers someone and he is not at risk of STD? What if he cuddles someone and falls asleep in their bed with them and stays the night? I'd love other people's opinions and thoughts on this...

4. I feel there is an ethical imperative to share with other potential lovers that we are in a relationship, but it is open. Rather than behaving like a single person. I feel this even if it is just a casual sex thing (he is more likely to do the casual thing than me), the other person(s) has the right to know 'I am having sex with someone in an open relationship' rather than 'I am having a night of casual sex with a single person'. What is the best (or at least, a succinct and good) way to be up-front about this? Also, I can require this of myself, but I can only ask him his opinion on this. Thoughts?

5. I have been open about my poly leanings to a few close friends and currently only one family member. I love introducing my boyfriend as 'my boyfriend', but I want to also make it clear to people 'I am still open to awesome relationships if they come my way' (I'm not actively looking though). How can I do both of these - introduce him as my amazing boyfriend, but be clear that I'm still available and yet not diminish what we have? I feel like 'this is my boyfriend, but I'm still open to other relationships' or 'this is my boyfriend but we're not exclusive' can have the feeling of 'this relationship doesn't mean much' when said to monogamous people. I dont want it to come across that way, and I would like to be totally clear when we're at a social event or talking to people who are just meeting 'us'. Ideas / thoughts / feelings / suggestions?

6. Is there anything I haven't thought of that I should be bringing up now, early on in the relationship, that would be beneficial to us both to be discussing now?

Thanks very much. By the way he is on this forum and will read this thread and your replies.

Infinity.

1. We don't discluse sexual acts. We just wear a condom where it is appropriate. Or, since we decided to become fluent bonded, we don't but I use BC. I don't talk much to one guy what I do with the other.
2. I didn't get tested but my bf got tested before becoming fluent bonded with me and my boyfriend.
3. I would absolutely want to know about falling in love, or becoming smitten and so on. I told my husband the whole story, from the first time I met my bf, about my ambivalence (not wanting a long distance relationship, he looked physically like my ex which was a good and a bad thing) and our mutual attraction. When he pursued me, I told him: I will date him tonight (we kissed) and the next morning I called my husband about his permission to have sex with him and possably date him, of course I told my husband I was a bit smitten, husband thought it was lovely as long since I had been so happy. Everything was just easy and fine.
4. I have disclosed to boyfriend the situation right away. I have previously very bad experiences with people who see my wedding band and think I am cheating on my husband (they feel sorry for him, or don't want drama). I have heard of people disclosing the next day and that is always bad. Either do it straigt up or keep it a full secret.
5. Call him what you want, what mono people care about is the current number of people you are seeing.
 
Oreadne: similar question for you - how do you define 'fooling around'?nthat your boyfriend must disclose to you?

He doesn't *have* to share it with me at all (well, except sex with someone new that might put me at a greater risk of STIs, before we have sex again, for consent reasons.) Its just something easy for us to share with one another in the spirit of full disclosure. We usually tell one another if we have even been flirting with someone else. I just like to know what is going on in his life, I'm not at all entitled to specific information nor does he have to justify his actions to me or feel like he needs to fudge what he is doing.

The information can be super vague like 'making out' or 'fooling around' and I don't need to know specifically what it is... its just somewhere in the spectrum between a kiss and penis-in-vagina sex.

I don't *need* to know the specifics of his dating life, but it would also be a huge red flag to me if he wasn't comfortable telling me... some people are much more private about things like this, but I expect we would be really clear about it up front that they don't want to talk about it much. But that is different than feeling like they are sneaking around, or being dishonest, or intentionally not disclosing important things.

We would never ever have an angry fight like "omg you did oral?! you just told me you fooled around, but oral is sex, how could you lie to me like that?!"
It would be more like "Oh, I didn't realize you had been having oral sex, I thought fooling around meant other-things-than-that. Please be more specific/tell me more/tell me less next time"
Communication is always a work in progress, just always err on the side of being as up-front, honest, and loving as you can be. Like the exact definitions of certain sex acts is much less important than just feeling like you and your partner can say exactly what is going on in your life, and what you each want and need, without fear of them exploding at you.
 
I am newish to poly too, and its my partner/wife who has a boyfriend. I am not saying what we have done/do will work for everyone as we have been together for a long time, but in terms of sex acts with her partner (whom she loves deeply) I trust her and if she trusts him in terms of STIs etc then that is OK for me. She decided when she wanted to stop using condoms, she decided to start taking the pill again. She decides what he can do when and where with her body. I support her in these decisions, we discussed them, but they were hers. But I know that she considers me in each of them too.
 
Hi again helpful people,

Here are some more thoughts I have had on this:

First, in terms of JUST sexual safety (i.e. physical safety). My 'criteria' for vetting someone who I would trust to have sex with ME are, I think, stricter than many people. For example, when he and I first had sex I asked him 'have you been tested for STDs since your last partner?' and he said yes. For him, his word was enough - I know him well enough to trust him that if he says 'yes' and 'I am clean', then I don't need to see the test results to know he is telling the truth. I also trust that if he got any sign of an STD / infection that might affect me, or if he had sex with someone else, as long as we had agreed to tell each other, I would 100% trust him to tell me.

But I have known him for quite a while, long enough to know he is a trust-worthy person. I would not trust someone with that level of responsibility who I had just known a few months. Certainly not someone I had just met. That is, to get onto the list of people I am OK to trust with my sexual health means I must be able to trust them to:

1. Tell the truth about whether they've been tested for STDs & tell the truth about those results.
2. Tell me if anything occurred that might require further test or indicate more risk (a rash, an itch, a new sexual partner etc).

The list of people whom I would trust with my health in that way is quite small. And, not all the people on the list are people I want to have sex with - but they are people who have proved themselves to me, to be of good character.

Now, what I realised is that anyone that any of my partners has sex with in an ongoing relationship, I am trusting in that way also.

*I should clarify that for me, unprotected oral sex is something I would see pretty much in the same realm as 'fluid bonding' so if my partner was having really any kind of sex with someone, ongoing, I would put that into the 'if they are risky, I am at risk' bag*

This is where I am unsure where to go.

If my partner (I am basing this on current boyfriend but am also trying to come up with a set of requests for future partners to follow) has sex as a one time only deal with someone, then this is a little more simple:

1. He has sex with random person.
2. He tells me.
3. He and I refrain from sex until he is tested.

(NB this is how quite a few of current boyfriend's previous sexual experiences have transpired, so I am aware that this is something he might like to do).

It would be a bit of a pain to refrain from sex (we have recently discovered that some STDs can be dormant for 3 weeks before they show up in tests, so it would really be a 'wait 3 weeks with no sex, get test, wait for test results deal for me to want sex again).

However, what if he has an ongoing sexual relationship with someone? This is where the 'who do I trust with my physical health?' comes in.

If *I* am having an ongoing sexual relationship with someone, I can ensure they are someone whom I really, really, really trust. Someone I trust to tell me if anything happens that might endanger my health.

However, if my partner has a relationship with someone, and is having any kind of unprotected sex with me AND them (even oral), then, I am trusting my partner's partner with my sexual health. And unless my partner's partner happened to fall into that small category of people I already trust (such as, if my partner started also dating one of my long-time friends) then that's not something I want to do. Because if I wouldn't trust them sexually to have sex with me, why would I trust them to be in my sexual 'circle' so to speak (i.e. not directly having sex with me, but still putting my health in their hands)?

So, what do I do?

I can only see a few options, none of which seem particularly nice:

1. Ask partner to get tested everytime he has sex with his other partner, just in case his other partner has been fooling about behind his back and not telling him (this is clearly unworkable).

2. Only have fully protected sex with my partner if they have someone else in their sex-life whom I wouldn't trust with my health (that would mean blow-jobs, cunnilingus, all with protection...how boring).

3. Meet my partner's partner to try to get a feel for them and build a relationship OF SOME SORT with them, at least enough to trust them with my health (but even if I did this AND saw their personal STD report, it wouldn't be the same as the kind of trust I would have built up over a much longer term and I'd still feel uneasy).

I am a little stuck on how to deal with this one. I know that for many people, you just trust your partner to only sleep with 'safe' people, especially if they know YOUR sexual health is now in their hands too. But for now, as I said, I tend to have stricter criteria for whom I'd trust with my sexual health, so I feel I'm at a bit of an impasse.

All advice appreciated.
Thanks!
 
Following up the previous post - on agreeing to boundaries for emotional health reasons:

Quite a few of you said that while you may have a small number of 'agreements' with your partner, most of your communication about what they did with someone else happens because they want to share that aspect of their life with you.

I want this kind of emotional openness too.

However, in the past my boyfriend has been quite private about his sexual encounters with others (even to me when I was just a close friend, and to his other close friends etc). He has told me this is just how he handles sexual encounters, to respect them as private.

I don't know if he sees this as different now that he is in a much more emotionally open relationship with me than we were, or if he would still prefer to keep things private.

For example, if we had not CLEARLY AGREED to a boundary about 'what I want to know', would he volunteer...

'Hey, you know that party I went to? Well, I met a girl called Jane. She's actually Bill Yeah, you know, Bill who we met at that other thing) - well she's Bill's cousin. We got along really well and I told her about us and she was fine with it. We ended up going back to her place and having sex, well, not PIV but just oral and some fooling around. She wants to see me again and I'm considering it, not really sure how I feel'

?

Because that's the sort of level of detail I'd really want. But I'd WAY prefer it to come organically, because he WANTS to share, as opposed to because we have 'agreed' that if he has a sexual encounter he will disclose

1. Their name
2. Who they are
3. Where it happened
4. What happened
5. Is he going to see them again?
6. How does he feel about it?

The very 'need' to specify all of that feels very constricting and like I am trying to control him. It's much more that the kind of relationships I want (with boyfriend or any future lover) are of the emotionally open, loving kind where you just WOULD share that sort of stuff as a matter of course.

But I'm not sure what to do here, given that hasn't been his previous way of operating. We can build up to the point where he'd just tell me stuff (and I feel that he would a lot anyway), but I wonder if I should specify exactly what I'd want now, so there's no confusion. Rather than, be unspecific about it and then later be told by him

...'why are you upset? I told you I had sex as per our agreement. You never said I had to say 'who with' and that's why I didn't tell you it was your best friend!'

(Not that I think he'd do that, but it's just an example of how, if I'm not specific, then it might come back to bite me).

In summary TL;DR:

*I want lots of detail regarding ANY of my lover's sexual experiences. NOT to the point that I need a complete blow by blow, but I want it to be an open book pretty much, and I reckon I'm comfortable with the same the other way. Once they are 'in a sexual relationship' with someone they don't need to go into AS MUCH detail, but being open would still be nice. HOWEVER, I want that detail to come because my partner(s) and I share an emotional closeness, NOT because of an agreement. HOWEVER my current partner has not operated that way in the past, so I'm wondering if an agreement and clear guidelines of what I'd want to know would help or hinder us. I think they'd help because it would be clear what I'd need, and I'd get that (or, he might say "no, I can't agree to XYZ, I can only agree to XY", but at least I'd know where I stand), but they might be constricting on allowing an emotionally open atmosphere where he would volunteer that info naturally or evolve more organically.
 
Your post reminded me of the precautions that Anneintherain, a member here, uses. So, I searched for her posts about it and also found some other members' posts wherein they share how they have contemplated the risk factors and chosen to handle them. I hope it is helpful to you, to read what some other folks do:

We have a table I made up, with STI's along the top and activities with any risk factors along the side. Where they meet it says what protection needs to be used for that combo, be it condoms, gloves, if the activity isn't OK at all risk wise, or if no protection needs to be used for it.

This made us take a really good look at risks and what we were willing to accept risking bringing home to the other. Although it's not everyday dinner talk to say "Hey I can send you our safe sex agreement chart if you would like to know the specifics" it does make it perfectly clear what somebody can or cant expect from us (including knowing what will change if they get an STI on the list that they don't currently have) and they'll also know what risks we will take with other partners. It makes it easier to ask if there's anything not clear for them too.

A bit odd, but I know my husband can't remember all that stuff, and we've changed our mind about some things over the last year, so having a hard copy helps keep track of it, and keeps misunderstandings from happening, as well as that whole "I really like this person so I want to make different rules to apply to them than we discussed" in the heat of the moment. I don't mind the weirdness of it, and I like the idea that any metamours will be able to know what the addition of either of us brings risk wise to the table too.

Due to it's nature it doesn't copy paste in any useful way, so I believe I've managed to upload it . . . I also understand our agreements on this are much more limiting than a lot of people choose for themselves, but I had a friend lose half of his tongue to oral cancer from HPV so I err on the side of caution. I left all my overly personal notes at the bottom too.

Two notes:
Adam has HSV2 (with no history of an outbreak), I don't, hence gloves for a couple activities being on there on there for him but not me. His partners are free to accept more risk to them if they like, but that helps ensure it's a talking point where the risks will be discussed.

That's our default "new partner" behavior, after 9 months or so we agreed I don't need to use barriers for oral sex with my other long term relationship now as he's polysaturated and hasn't added any new partners since we started dating. May go back to them if that changes. I'd include that information during a safe sex talk with a new person.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?4bz7ra4alx772uv

. . . I haven't been even kind of spontaneous sexually with a new partner for 20 years , I wouldn't know how to do it.

. . . I do have a container with saran wrap, dental dams, condoms, female condoms, gloves etc sitting in the bedroom ready for any instance just in case! I actually got it ready for my husband cause I didn't want him to have an excuse to not get busy with a partner for ANY of the activities on our chart if he felt like going for it. I can totally picture me saying "Wait a minute let me go get the safe sex kit" though :(

Regarding the STI question, you will have to do your own risk analysis and determine what risks you are willing to take and what you are not willing to risk. That is a very personal decision. But please, base your decision on facts and not stigma.

Herpes is unpleasant and can have some very serious consequences for pregnant women and fetuses. You may break out in embarrasing places. You may have to take relatively inexpensive suppressive drugs that have few side effects and work well for most people. There is an embarrassing stigma. However, at least in the United States, most sexually active people have either been infected or exposed to HSV1 or HSV2. (FYI, did you know that chicken pox is part of the herpes 'family'. Shingles too.) Ultimately, herpes is an unpleasant, embarrassing skin disease that will not kill you.

HPV is probably as prevalent as herpes in sexually active people. I read somewhere that if you have had 5 sexual partners in your lifetime, then, statistically, you've been exposed or infected with an HPV strain. THe vast majority of HPV strains do absolutely nothing - no warts, no cancers. Some do cause genital warts - again embarrasing, unpleasant skin condition. Others can cause abnormal cells to grow - most commonly in the cervix of women. These are the 'high risk' HPV strains and it is one of these that I have. This is serious and not to be taken lightly. I know women killed by cervical cancer. However, the risk is low that actual cancer will develop, even if one has abnormal cells (as I do presently). So if one gets regular pap smears and monitors the situation, the likelihood of a good outcome - no cancer or less good - cancer but caught early - is much higher.

In contrast, syphilis, left untreated, can destroy the brain. HIV is fatal (I know current treatments greatly help with longevity and quality of life but it is still a fatal disease). Gonorrhea can destroy young women's fertility. The hepatitis strains have all kinds of very serious health impacts, up to organ failure and needing transpants.

I decided that I will not have sex with someone with the above infections, even with barriers. Barriers do protect really well against these diseases transmitted via fluid exposure. This is where I personally draw my risk line. And many of these diseases are developing drug resistance.

It frustrates me that people reject out of hand folks who do the responsible thing and inform partners of herpes or HPV. (I do acknowledge that everyone has this right.) It is very likely that both you and your partner were exposed to HPV or herpes or both by direct or indirect sexual contact with the guy who didn't use barriers with casual partners, and who didn't use barriers for oral sex with your partner. Your partner might as well slept with the man with herpes - it would have been less risky. You had a known situation with someone willing to be honest and presumably take appropriate caution (barriers, be on suppressive drugs, monitor himself for outbreaks and refrain from sex during outbreaks). Instead the person who takes unknown risks with his health and everyone he has sex with and everyone his partners have sex with gets rewarded. It is this behavior - which I see *everywhere* - that encourages people to lie about STI status . . . It just frustrates me so much.

I know very few women who use barriers for casual sex with other women, for the record. I'm all in favor of dental dams and gloves if that's what you need to be comfortable, but transmission rates of STIs for lesbian sex acts are, objectively, really low. It's no different than her "unprotected fingers and oral" policy with men -- roughly the same risks there. I just feel like some people think that there should be equivalent policies -- you use latex for men, so surely you should for women too -- without objectively considering that the acts involved are different.

. . . I've chosen what most would consider to be a fairly high degree of risk. I'm fluid bonded with a guy who's also fluid bonded with a full-service escort. She uses condoms for PIV/PIA with everyone but him, but engages in unprotected oral and manual sex, and he and I also both have unprotected oral and manual sex with other partners, some serious, some casual.

I spent a couple of months thinking hard about the decision to be fluid bonded with him. I did a LOT of reading about transmission rates. Basically, what I came to was very similar to what Opal laid out above.

I was terrified of the life-long, potentially deadly diseases... and yet oral transmission of those is extremely, extremely low if it's even possible, Scientists who have been studying this for decades still aren't sure if oral transmission of HIV and Hep can actually occur at all if your mouth isn't bleeding. And as for those diseases when it comes to PIV/PIA, condoms are essentially completely effective against them if you use them consistently and correctly.

I had to look at studies like that over and over before the rational part of my brain was able to overcome the scared part and say "Look, yes, there may technically be a risk for these extremely dangerous things... but it's infinitesimal. Basing any decisions on that is just silly."

That left things that were curable if you catch them early enough -- and we all get tested regularly, so no worries there -- and things that are lifelong but merely inconveniencing, such as HPV and HSV. I've already had a case of the type of HPV that causes genital warts (I was 18 at the time, had only had a handful of partners), which are easily treatable, and I've been vaccinated against the types that cause cancer.

So, in the end, it was down to just worrying about HSV. HSV can be asymptomatic and can be transmitted by contact with the skin around the genitals, meaning condoms aren't 100% against it. I'm not blase about it -- I'd really rather NOT get HSV -- but if it happens it will not be the end of my world.

I expect my partners to follow their gut . . . to disclose ANY relevant information . . . and to use condoms for the high risk activities . . . So, would I sleep with her if I really liked her? Absolutely.

But my risk tolerance doesn't have to be your risk tolerance!
 
THANK YOU nycindie. This is a really great resource. Having a look at the table now. This is exactly the kind of thing I want to know about.
 
That is a really great resource, thank you. As festival season approaches again I know Mal will be having sex with partners that I don't know. We need to have 'the talk' before that.
 
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