When will you consider fluid bonding?

When will you consider fluid bonding?

  • 0-3 months

    Votes: 8 25.8%
  • 3-6 months

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • 6-12 months

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • 1-2 years

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • 2-5 years

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • More than 5 years

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Never - Always Protected

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Never - Only w/ Primary

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 48.4%

  • Total voters
    31
? - I don't see why the agreement would be any less likely to hold up in a Vee than any other arrangement. And I don't see why the "arms" would be more likely than the "hinge" to want to have unprotected sex - I would think it would depend on the gender and mono/polyness of the people involved. (i.e. I think men are statistically more likely than women to object to condoms and mono people aren't looking for outside sex anyway).

I agree with your observations about gender (& monogamy), but I still conjecture that closure to unprotected sex outside a fixed group is easier to maintain if there are no dangling ends. Pure conjecture, mind you. If the dangling ends are female or perfectly happy being mono, maybe you're right.

An interesting aside - contraception at this point would be a matter of negotiation between NewGirlfriend and MrS and ME - which I just realized as I was typing this. As MrS's legal wife I feel I should have some input regarding procreation. If MrS gets NewGirlfriend pregnant - he is legally responsible for child support etc., this affects our joint finances, etc. I have no legal responsibility for Dude's offspring. (Which is not saying that I wouldn't have an emotional, ethical, etc. responsibility - depending on my relationship with NewGirlfriend) And we should all be aware of the fact that accidents do happen and contraceptives do fail and we should address what happens if that happens while having these conversations.

Oh, yes, we are definitely far more concerned about contraception than STIs. Actually, my wife wanted to require me to get a vasectomy before we pursued multiple relationships at all, even with condoms. I was able to convince her to let me try out multiple relationships a bit before I made any quick decisions. A visit to the urologist is definitely on the agenda. An accidental pregnancy with another partner seems like a Vishnu-style world-destroying shit-storm.
 
An interesting aside - contraception at this point would be a matter of negotiation between NewGirlfriend and MrS and ME - which I just realized as I was typing this. As MrS's legal wife I feel I should have some input regarding procreation.
Well, obviously, you really would only have input about how it would affect your husband and you, how you and he would handle that responsibility, what precautions he takes, etc. But you would have no say about what choices his girlfriend makes about her body, or if she gets preggers. That would be totally up to her. As I see it, anyway.
 
Actually, my wife wanted to require me to get a vasectomy before we pursued multiple relationships at all, even with condoms. I was able to convince her to let me try out multiple relationships a bit before I made any quick decisions.

I asked my ex if he would do that when we got engaged, and he agreed. Best decision ever. It was such an easy procedure, and worry-free.
 
Other.

At this point in my life, I will only fluid bond if the intended outcome is pregnancy, and I'm not exactly ready to have children in my life right now.
 
Well, obviously, you really would only have input about how it would affect your husband and you, how you and he would handle that responsibility, what precautions he takes, etc. But you would have no say about what choices his girlfriend makes about her body, or if she gets preggers. That would be totally up to her. As I see it, anyway.

She, of course, has absolute control over her body and her decisions. However, it takes sperm to get pregnant. If hubs and I are not comfortable with whatever pregnancy precautions she is willing to tolerate then HIS sperm can be taken out of the equation. i.e. no sex if no mutually acceptable conclusion is reached. She can't unilaterally "decide" to get pregnant by my husband if he doesn't agree to the possibility. She has control over her body, and he has control over his - and HE takes my boundaries into consideration. If the "mutually acceptable conclusion" is that he gets a vasectomy, that is HIS decision as to whether he is willing to comply in order to have sex with her. If she decides to get pregnant she can use someone else's sperm to do so (which leaves hubs, and therefore me, off the hook for child support).

This actually came into play with Dude and I. MrS and I came to the conclusion that Dude and I could have unprotected sex IF Dude was willing to forego paternity rights should a pregnancy occur. He was, it did (and unfortunately ended in miscarriage - more about that here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=130967#post130967).
 
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From what I've seen, I'm pretty strict with anything sexual, actually, very strict. If I'm going to do something that exchanges fluids I need to:
1. Trust the person to be honest
2. They must be tested.
3. They must not be involved with anyone else who has not been tested.
4. I must trust anyone else they are involved with who has been tested to not get involved with others who haven't been.

I know this is very restrictive, and I make sure anyone I get involved with is okay with this beforehand. We make sure any new partners are on board as well, I don't want to impose this on anyone unless they willingly accept it coming into a relationship with one or more of us. And while I know protection is an option, and a good one at that, it simply is not fullproof enough for me to be willing to be with someone who has sex with untested partners but uses condoms. I also REALLY detest condoms. I'm on birth control for a reason, and would rather not have sex at all, then to do so with a condom. If ever my partner wanted to play at a play party or event I might be willing to negotiate a one time thing where condoms were used, and that partner refrained from contact with any of us until enough time had passed and they were tested again though. Even then, its iffy, cause you can still catch something if a condom breaks during an infrequent playtime with someone. Honestly, my rules may be tough, but I'm just not willing to take the risk with my health and that of those I'm with, and if others cannot respect it, they don't need to get involved with us or can find ways to do so that do not involve fluid exchanging activities. This is what we are all comfortable with, so we stick to it.
 
From what I've seen, I'm pretty strict with anything sexual, actually, very strict. If I'm going to do something that exchanges fluids I need to:
1. Trust the person to be honest
2. They must be tested.
3. They must not be involved with anyone else who has not been tested.
4. I must trust anyone else they are involved with who has been tested to not get involved with others who haven't been.

I know this is very restrictive, and I make sure anyone I get involved with is okay with this beforehand. We make sure any new partners are on board as well, I don't want to impose this on anyone unless they willingly accept it coming into a relationship with one or more of us. And while I know protection is an option, and a good one at that, it simply is not fullproof enough for me to be willing to be with someone who has sex with untested partners but uses condoms. I also REALLY detest condoms. I'm on birth control for a reason, and would rather not have sex at all, then to do so with a condom. If ever my partner wanted to play at a play party or event I might be willing to negotiate a one time thing where condoms were used, and that partner refrained from contact with any of us until enough time had passed and they were tested again though. Even then, its iffy, cause you can still catch something if a condom breaks during an infrequent playtime with someone. Honestly, my rules may be tough, but I'm just not willing to take the risk with my health and that of those I'm with, and if others cannot respect it, they don't need to get involved with us or can find ways to do so that do not involve fluid exchanging activities. This is what we are all comfortable with, so we stick to it.

That's great. I value your sharing your approach to this issue. I'm starting to regret offering "other" as one of the responses in the poll, though. What do you think would be a rough estimate of how long it takes for your criteria, especially 1 & 4, to be satisfied?
 
It depends on the person. My fiance and I became fluid bonded within a couple months, but then he also had never had any sexual contact at all before, so testing wasn't an issue. I didn't do anything involving fluid exchange with my partner Lady until about eight months, although I did trust her earlier on, I just wanted to wait until I was completely comfortable. I would say normally, assuming there was a friendship before the relationship and some trust already, I would say it normally takes anywhere from one to four months for me to get to that point with people. Although I also do insist that I see test results no matter what my level of trust with the person. It makes me feel safer, and it also makes my other partners feel more at ease, because they may not trust or be as close to the new person yet.
 
There are a lot of threads on "fluid bonding" in case anyone is interested in a tag search. :)

Mono and I are fluid bonded, PN and I are not and I am not with Derby. For me it depends on the partner and the sex we have... also how important it is to them and me. To me and Mono is was very important as we like to have no-barriers-what-so-ever-sex. We like our freedom in bed and I don't think I would ever want to jeopardize how amazing that is with him. So I am careful with others... even with my husband.

It will be interesting when PN has his vasectomy soon. I don't know where we will be at after that. Its been 13 years of condoms. I would just carry on as it always has been... need some discussion around expectations I think.
 
So, for those who said "0-3 months" or "Other," how certain are you of the size of the group of people to whom you are concurrently exposed? How many people are in that group? If the group became larger, how would you be notified? Does anyone in the group have unprotected anal sex? Or are you just relying on a piece of paper that said your partner was negative several months ago?
 
I'm as certain as can be about the size of my group. Theres four of us involved including myself, and unless someone is very good at cheating behind our backs, thats it. If someone new got involved, they would need to be tested and we would need to trust them enough to know they weren't having sex with anyone who hadn't also been tested and was abstaining from sex with others, and so on and so forth. I do have a couple I'm friends with, and another friend, both of which who have the same standards I do. We have the option of doing things with them when they have been tested but have not yet had sex with others we don't know. True, they make those others get tested too and so on, but I don't know their partners personally, so I would not trust them not to be involved with others who have not been tested. So I would say I'm as certain as possible that my group consists of a very small group, all of which have been tested and not engaged in risky behavior afterwards.
 
For me, time isn't really a factor in itself. It has more to do with what the risk is and what kind of sexual activity is occurring.

This is true for me too. At the moment rory is the only one I'm not using barriers with and that has to do with the low risk activities we do and the fact that she only has one other partner who in turn doesn't have anyone else. If that were to change, I would re-evaluate the situation. With men - my husband and anyone else - I always use condoms in every activity we do. If I have sex with a new woman, I probably won't have oral sex with her (or if she prefers I can use dental dams), unless there are good reasons to think it would be safe. I'm not sure how long it would take to fluid bond with anyone new, because it depends so much on the situation/person/risk. And I will only consider fluid bonding when it comes to oral sex. I will never give up condoms in vaginal sex, it's too risky. I also REALLY don't want to get pregnant so to be sure about it, condoms are a good addition even though I'm also using another contraception method.
 
Runic Wolf and I fluid bonded at around 2 months because we were teenagers and I had anallergic reaction in the spermacide in the condoms he bought. Wendigo and I fluid bonded immediately, but I knew that there was no risk of STI's b/c he and his wife had been mono and non-sexual for almost 13 years. We'd also been friends for a few years so I trusted him completely. I have an IUD so pregnancy isn't a concern for us.

I also am not looking for any new partners. My two attempts at having a relationship with a female have fizzled and I am not so much polysaturated with my guys, but saturated with male energy. I don't want anyone else.
 
Runic Wolf and I fluid bonded at around 2 months because we were teenagers and I had anallergic reaction in the spermacide in the condoms he bought. Wendigo and I fluid bonded immediately, but I knew that there was no risk of STI's b/c he and his wife had been mono and non-sexual for almost 13 years. We'd also been friends for a few years so I trusted him completely.

So do Runic Wolf and/or Wendigo have unprotected sex with anyone else?
 
So, for those who said "0-3 months" or "Other," how certain are you of the size of the group of people to whom you are concurrently exposed? How many people are in that group? If the group became larger, how would you be notified? Does anyone in the group have unprotected anal sex? Or are you just relying on a piece of paper that said your partner was negative several months ago?

I am not currently fluid-bonded to anyone, and I pretty much covered the theoreticals in my previous post.

My "girlfriend" Rachael and I accidentially became fluid-bonded the first time we had sex (she's allergic to latex and polyurethane condoms suck. I wish I'd known about polyisoprene condoms then.) Anyway, it broke. The rest of the week I was visiting her, we decided to proceed without condoms. She had clean test results from a month before, and both of her other partners weren't involved with anyone else (as far as they said, but I figured there wasn't much of a reason for them to lie). Probably low/medium risk, but in retrospect probably more risk than I was comfortable with. I tested clean six months later. We've decided to go back to barriers the next time we see each other. I also have a date this weekend with someone I assume is mono. I generally don't try to have sex on a first date, but sometimes the girl does. If so, condoms.

I figured the time-based poll was more about trust, and the implied question was "how long does it take for you to trust someone?" Still, I vote other. While time is a factor, it varies from a few months to several years, and depends more on demonstration of trustworthiness than time. If someone demonstrates that they're open about themselves and we talk and spend time together frequently, I could see myself trusting them enough to consider fluid bonding after a few months. It's different from person to person.
 
So do Runic Wolf and/or Wendigo have unprotected sex with anyone else?

Outside the group, no. For a short period of time, Wendigo's wife joined us, but it didn't last. Neither Wendigo nor myself have any other partners nor do we desire any other partners. Runic Wolf is not currently seeing anyone as well.
 
I find that to be fluid bonded with anyone that I have to know and trust everyone who is involved right to the edges of the poly configuration. Any time that changes (someone takes on a partner who has many other partners) I'm more than happy to go back to barrier use. I'm not only responsible for my own health but I am also responsible for my partners' health (and thier partners as well). The only person I can control is myself and as such I'm willing to take the responsibility of using barriers.
 
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