(I still don't know how to do quotes right) "Professional counseling can be very useful sometimes, but some things can only be nullified by their opposite. For instance bad childhood memories can only be washed away when replaced by imaginary good childhood memories. The following book supports this idea:
Home Coming - Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child, By: John Bradshaw
But it is too hard to imagine something that isn't happening or that you haven't ever experienced. Thus the need to expand horizons. "
So, Luna, they don't need counseling, you see; he's read a book! Maybe even more than one!
When LoveQuest stated the he "expects" his wife and Cam to have an intimate (but not sexual?) and loving relationship, I lost any empathy I had for him. I don't think this is a language issue, either, because everything he has written does, indeed, indicate that he expects these two women to behave in the way HE wants.
I know exactly what you're saying, powerpuffgrl. And I admit that was the overall impression I got also.
I am still not convinced otherwise, however as LoveQuest sought input from the forum membership, I thought I'd try again to get to the bottom of the rather confusing premise he describes...
lunabunny,
Childhood issues are not consistent only of traumas, but also by the harm of missing elements of love and care. An invisible harm which is even more prevalent. Thus fact is that majority of us has childhood issues, yet the ones who are sufficiently aware of those issues and admit it represent a minority.
My apologies. I was using "childhood trauma" as a catch-all term, but what I should have said, perhaps, is childhood issues or childhood trauma and/or neglect, but that may be splitting hairs in the context of this post.
Yes, following my advice, my wife has tried a few different therapist and psychiatrist, including one specialized in her illness, but that made more harm than healing, she says. I have learned that less than 10% of people with her disorder get "healed" (recovered) by following therapy, which yet doesn't prove that therapy is the healing factor, even for those. And btw the number of people diagnosed with her disorder who commit suicide is greater then the number of people who recover through therapy and medication. When I met my wife, her life was falling a part, from a religious devoted person into a promiscuous life. It took me years to find out how to help her, but she has never cheated on me and she is much better now as a devoted mother who has made huge advances in her personal life goals, such as having a family, graduating and being proud of herself. Mostly recovered.
You don't mention the specifics of your wife's particular diagnosis (and are not obliged to do so here, of course), though it might better help the forum understand what drives her and her possible reactions.
(For instance, I know from the personal experience of close friends that certain disorders, such as Borderline Personality disorder and various delusional disorders, such as Schizoaffective disorder, can be quite resistant to traditional therapies.)
I'm glad that your wife has mostly achieved healing and improved her quality of life over the years, across many spheres.
I'm sure you care about her well-being, and for this reason among others, adding another person to your relationship dynamic is a HUGE step and something not to be trifled with, as I think you realise - or you'd not be asking the advice of a forum such as this. It concerns me that her current and hard-won emotional stability might be compromised by the addition of someone who, on one hand, she is beginning to feel a growing affection for... but on the other, she still clearly feels threatened by, as evidenced by her jealousy and sulking/anger/sadness (or however it manifests), whenever you and Cam touch, hug or act "lovingly" toward each other in her presence.
Regarding sexual attraction, some people are impulsive and even afraid of their compulsions, like my wife, but me and Cam are the opposite. We can hold up, if we choose to. So my behavior won't be an issue anymore since I have decided to quit trying to make "advances" with Cam. I'm confident that I'm gonna be able to eliminate my wife's discomfort next time, making a plainly pleasurable environment.
I believe it is time to have faith. My wife's love towards me should eventually make her give me more freedom, and she is already. She has allowed me to hang out with Cam for a short period, and then she told me she was happy that she did get confident enough to allow that.
Another question if I may, as this part is confusing:
- Have you openly discussed the subject of Polyamory with your wife? What is her stance on Poly?
(You say your wife has never cheated on you, but you were in a relationship with Cam while you two were living separately. You also say you have multiple children from different relationships. Have you ever practised a polyamorous lifestyle in the past? )
- Have you openly and CLEARLY explained your intentions towards Cam? Meaning, have you explained to your wife that you wish to include her (Cam) in the life you AND she share? From your original post, I would guess you haven't been completely honest about this, as you asked us how you should go about introducing the subject.
I do truly believe you ought to be totally up front and honest about what you WANT (as opposed to "expect") from this situation with these two women. You cannot simply impose your desires upon them, by subterfuge - i.e. waiting or encouraging them to become close friends and throwing them into situations such as voyeuristic sex scenarios - without honestly explaining what you seek from this situation. Honesty, transparency and open communication are KEY when it comes to polyamory!
I don't see the females being sexually active with each other, but they have quickly developed considerable intimacy as friends. My wife's sexuality is not really orthodox. She seems to get exited by talking about other men she met during our sexual intercourse, or about other woman I met, before it, but only if she feels safe and preferred. So there is a chance that she may decide to explore new experiences, such as being watched or watching (like voyeurism), yet that's just a possibility.
What you are describing is sharing sexual fantasies, or perhaps mild kink scenarios. It does NOT mean your wife is necessarily up for living in a polyamorous triad. The only way to gauge her willingness to participate in such an arrangement is to ASK her directly... and if she shows interest, discuss and negotiate your respective boundaries and rules/agreements (including Cam's!)
I still strongly advise you to seek relationship counselling IF there is any chance of this situation going ahead - as individuals, couple/s, and possibly as a group if all three feel comfortable enough with each other.
Not everyone who enters polyamory has planned into it, I guess. I can assure you that it would be a desirable arrangement for Cam, provided that there is no competition. All she needs is a green flag from my wife to get closer, in whatever extent. In regard to my wife, only time can tell what would be desirable or not for her.
Oh, I am fully aware of this! I myself was certainly NOT intending to get involved in a polyamorous relationship - in fact, I was dead-set against such things - but, well, here I am. Life occasionally throws us a giant curve-ball, and it's up to us what we attempt to do with it.
In your situation, however, it seems you and Cam ARE "planning" for that eventuality, and only your wife is unaware that this is a possibility you're seriously considering. I believe you need to come clean about your feelings for Cam and approach your wife about your aims (in as diplomatic a manner as possible, while still being clear and up front).