Lies, lies and more lies.

Podunk

New member
A little background, since this is my first post. I am in a relationship with forum member veganchick. We have been together for six years, share parenting of each other's children, own a home together and were legally married in January of this year. One of our earliest discussions was about open relationships/polyamory. Both of us had felt poly in the past but never been in a relationship that allowed any exploration. It was exciting to be falling madly in love with someone who was not going to close off any possibilities in life.

Early on we dabbled in swinging and still do, although very infrequently (once a year if we're lucky!) as time, jobs and parenting don't allow many opportunities. One of our first swinging experiences, and the most fulfilling, actually was closer to poly. We met casually at first in their home, our children played together; we talked and had dinner together. On our one and only date, we went out together and then back to our place, drank and sexed late in to the night. They stayed over and we made them breakfast in the morning. It was beautiful to us. Unfortunately, the husband was not ready for all of this, and we didn't see them again.

This is all relevant to show you the reader where I am coming from. We have had sex with friends, with strangers and in groups. We have had bonding experiences with another couple. We have spent hours reading this forum and years discussing being open. This past month has presented for the first time for either of us, veganchick an opportunity to explore another relationship on a solo basis.

This all began at an Intentional Communities conference in late August. While not a poly-specific event, there were many poly folks in attendance. It was very liberating to be able to talk/live openly about who we are with like-minded people. The most popular forum at the conference was the alternative relationships workshop. The setting for the event allowed for a great deal of personal freedom, that veganchick quickly took advantage of.

On a hot August Saturday night, there was a dance party at the intentional community hosting the conference. It was open to the conference attendees, the community and several nearby intentional communities. Quite the groovy, pack of dancing alterna-commune-hippie folks. There is no air conditioning in the community and shirts were quickly shed.

Veganchick loves to dance and it didn't take long for her to attract the attention of both men and women. Long blonde hair, glistening breasts and cute shy smile. What's not to love? Add to that an amazingly interesting and wonderful personality. Yes, she is the whole package.

One guy in particular was mesmerized, I'll call him Paul. Paul kept coming over to dance near veganchick. She said to me that she thought he liked her. I said "of course he does!" Having some body image issues (from pregnancy and childbearing), veganchick tends to have some self-esteem issues, mostly minor and not debilitating in any way. She went back in and danced with him, they spent a good bit of time sitting outside chatting and getting to know each other. I sat down with them for a few minutes to reassure everyone involved that I was okay with it all.

The next day Paul joined us for the alternative relationships workshop and for a tour of a neighboring intentional community. We all parted as friends and with heartfelt hugs.
 
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Upon our return home veganchick and Paul immediately began communicating electronically. While veganchick has had several online romances brewing over the past year, this had been her first in-person encounter. She was giddy with the excitement of capturing the attention of someone she found incredibly attractive on many levels. Veganchick had been also been in love for years with the idea of intentional community, and Paul's community in particular. That he was a member and could open the door of that community to her just sweetened the deal.

Plans quickly hatched for a return visit and grew from a few days to a weeklong stay. Not that it would have mattered, but I was not aware at this time that sex was already a planned part of the visit. I assumed it would happen and was okay with that. But veganchick chose not to disclose this to me, reasons unknown. The lies and deception had already begun.

Veganchick inquired what our rules/boundaries would be. After swinging together and seeing each other engaged in all kinds of sexual acts with others, what would be the value of rules and limits? I said "none" but quickly qualified that with safe sex and honesty. Those were to be the only rules. Veganchick happily agreed to this. The safe sex was even open to discussion in the future if this was to become a long-term thing, but for now there were to be no fluid exchanges.

Knowing veganchick as well as I do, I left her with a very serious and heartfelt piece of advice. She tends to rush in to things, especially romantic and sexual things. I warned her to protect herself emotionally, take things slow and make sure it's what she really wanted. To not do anything she would wish she hadn't done, too much too soon etc. Part of me knew she would do this anyway. But with 6 years of unshaken honesty and communication, I had no worries that there would be anything we couldn't manage together.
 
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Paul and the commune, these were the only things veganchick could talk about for the next two weeks. Finally I saw her off on her trip, overflowing with the excitement of adventure and romance. It was to be a lonely week for me; we hadn't been apart in 6 years.

But I was so happy for her to have the opportunity. She is almost a decade younger than me, was a young mother and missed the opportunity to explore many of her passions. I was deeply satisfied to help her have that chance, to explore intentional community, personal freedom, autonomy, sex, love and romance. I was eager to see her grow as a person, reaching toward her true potential.
 
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Apparently the sex started within hours of her arrival, so much for wrapping your head around something emotionally before diving right in. But with a swinging background, I guess it wasn't really too far out of line. (Or unexpected for that matter.) Of course, I didn't know that this was already pre-planned, I just know veganchick!

There was a roadblock though, Paul was having some anxiety about his new relationship and could not maintain an erection. This makes safe sex more difficult, so it was abandoned for three days of full-on unprotected oral sex. I didn't hear much from veganchick these first few days, guess it's hard to talk with a dick in your mouth? Fast forward to the present and veganchick now can't remember if Paul was wearing a condom when he came in her mouth, or if she swallowed his cum. This after already confessing to both versions? Hm, lies and deceit continuing even now?

By the fourth day I started to hear from veganchick most evenings, she was really enjoying the community and had a kid in a candy store outlook on all the cool people there. She was having an amazing time and I was happy for her. She told me how much she missed me and wished I was there with her.

She told me that there wasn't any chemistry between her and Paul, that "nothing had happened" between them. The lies were really beginning to take shape even as the sex was over. Due mostly to anxiety and family pressures on Paul's part (his wife is polyamorous as well and they have a young child), there wouldn't be any more sex for the rest of the trip. At least that's the current state of what I can discern from the lies and deceit.
 
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Finally this few days, turned to week, turned to 8 days trip was over. Veganchick returned home glowing with lively hippie commune inspired energy. She was more beautiful to me than ever. I told her so. We made love with renewed passion and couldn't get enough. I was seeing the results of her freedom in all the ways I had hoped for. Everything was perfect, our vision of life together rapidly evolving in to something bigger and better than ever. That is except for the blatant and constant lies and lies to cover up lies.

Immediately on her return home, veganchick offered up once again that "nothing had happened" between her and Paul. I had not inquired and simply assumed that the woman I know so well hadn't gone a week on a commune with a lover and kept her pants on. I was shocked and even a little disappointed at this. As our first solo venture as a poly couple, I had hoped this would be a door-opener for my own desires and passions. While still opening the doors of exploration, it didn't take us past the no solo sex boundary. Oh, so many lies!
 
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A week passed, the sex was phenomenal, our love of life together unshakeable or so it seemed to me. Then veganchick let it slip that she had kissed Paul. Not a big deal in and of itself, but certainly a lot more than "nothing" and greatly magnified by the earlier denial. It was big but not overwhelming and a relatively short discussion settled the matter. To put it in context we have been swingers and kissing is uncommon in that community. This was our first kiss outside of our six year relationship together. This would have been the time to come clean, but the lies would go on for another week.

Right around the time of our kissing revelation, we had a friend over for dinner. Veganchick spent hours raving about the intentional community and about Paul. This was all new to our friend who wasn't very familiar with Poly, but she likes alternative things of all sorts and took it in stride. At times veganchick's discourse went the way of smug self-aggrandizement. Not such a big deal at the time and forgivable considering her youthful excitement about her adventures. Completely distasteful and disgusting now considering the context of her lies and deceit.

All during this first week home, veganchick maintained that "nothing had happened" between her and Paul and the basically had no romantic interest in him. Meanwhile she was secretly discussing via email another possible trip to the commune. She was also telling Paul what a wonderful and meaningful time they had together and that she was looking forward to continuing where they left off. She now claims she was lying to him too during that period.

So many lies, which ones to believe? And for what? She had the most understanding partner anyone could ask for, a completely open relationship, few if any boundaries and six years of honest loving communication. The question of WHY will remain unanswered in this story.
 
Not sure if it was before or after the kissing revelation, but we would meet one of Paul's other lovers at the Mother Earth News Fair. I'll call her Meghan. Meghan had briefly caught my eye at the earlier Intentional Communities Conference, but I didn't know who she was or anything about her at the time. It turns out that she lives in a neighboring commune to Paul and they meet frequently for sex, they are fuck buddies and not much more.

As we parted company with Meghan, I had a close and tight hug with her and at least for me there was some chemistry and excitement in that. She is beautiful and shaped just the way I like. Mainly she has a big round ass, something that physically veganchick can never fulfill for me. Veganchick has long known that and we have talked often about finding ways to fulfill that primal desire for me. Later that night veganchick and I would discuss me and Meghan, threesomes, foursomes and moresomes. Weren't we just one big happy poly family? The lies continued and another week passed.
 
Then out of the blue there was a random email from Meghan to veganchick. She thought I was cute and wanted to know if next time veganchick visited Paul, if I might come and visit her. I had a bit of giddy schoolboy excitement in that thought, complete with butterflies in my stomach and racing thoughts of possibilities in my mind. Could life get any better? I had it all right? Except for the lies that continued to grow!

As we discussed the possibilities surrounding Meghan, I offered that if I had a week on the commune with her, the outcome would be very different than with Paul and veganchick. She seemed a little bewildered by this and offered up that it "wasn't like she hadn't done anything" and what did I mean? I laughed it off that she had kissed Paul and clarified that there would definitely be sex if I spent time with Meghan and probably lots of it. I guess that was too much for veganchick to take. She let it out that there had been "touching" between her and Paul. What? The lies began to unfold!
 
Even then veganchick was still clinging to her "making out" terminology and said that she assumed I knew about this touching when she confessed to making out. I assured I did not know and inquired if this was just touching or naked touching. The answer was that it was "sort of naked" touching but "not really". How is one sort of naked? Even as I asked that question, she stuck with the "sort of naked" story.

To make matters worse veganchick began belittling me calling me "stupid" and an "idiot" for believing her lies. Did I really think "nothing happened"? Yes, of course I did. I was shocked that nothing happened, but with six solid years of open and honest communication and an open relationship, what reason was there to suspect anything different, much less lies and deceit and cover-up?
 
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The timeline gets vague here as night has run in to day and arguments and lies have all run together. This will be our fourth day of working through this. At this point I have broken off all physical contact, demanded STD testing and started the process of dissolving our marriage.

After intensive questioning, some hours later or the next day I'm not sure which, veganchick finally confessed to "some attempted" oral sex. She was also still clinging to the "sort of naked" line of shit! She maintained that Paul could not perform and therefore "nothing REALLY happened". We left it with that, our marriage shattered and crumbling and with veganchick pleading for forgiveness and another chance. I was doubtful of the story, but still not realizing the extent of the lies.

The next morning I started to open up about how deeply hurt I was. I could only assume that veganchick had been as truthful as possible, considering she was begging forgiveness and desperately trying to save our relationship. Unfortunately, truth and honesty seem to be something she has completely lost the ability to comprehend!!!

With doubts still in hand, I reluctantly began to offer more direct questions. The lies continued but at last it SEEMED that everything finally came out. There had been days of oral sex, both giving and receiving, but veganchick had not orgasmed and Paul couldn't get it up therefore "nothing had happened". (Before I could get this posted I learned that veganchick had lied to Paul at the time and told him she did orgasm.)
 
Boy, this "nothing happened" thing is getting bigger and bigger! Marriage is completely finished at this point, but veganchick is still begging forgiveness and assuring that the lies are over and there is nothing else to tell. She is still unable to offer a WHY! Doesn't know why she lied? It's like the little kid who doesn’t know why they wrote all over the wall with crayons!

This is where we begin to catch up with the beginning of my writing. After yet another sleepless night, I wanted to make damn sure this thing was completely out in the open, although I'm still not sure that is the case. I began some very intense, focused direct questioning to satisfy my need to know. Well, wouldn't you know it! More lies! "Semi-naked" became naked, one encounter became multiple days, Paul’s inability to perform became he came in my mouth and I swallowed his load, which by the way has now become "I don't remember".
 
So, here we are at the end of this story, or at least this chapter. After another sleepless night I have been writing and collecting my thoughts since about 3am. I can't believe anyone will actually read this far, maybe someone will although I'm not sure why they would. Veganchick is still begging forgiveness and claiming full disclosure, like she has every one of the past four days. I'm still not convinced.

In hopes of rebuilding things she is cooperating with my demands for full disclosure to every party involved in this mess, and to immediate STD testing. (Yes, I'm aware oral transmission rates are fairly low compared to intercourse.)

We'll see where this ends up. At this point all I really want to know is the WHY? Not sure, outside of veganchick’s apparent psychosis if there is a why. Doubt I’ll ever get that answer. I'll let you all know what happens.
 
I can't believe anyone will actually read this far, maybe someone will although I'm not sure why they would.

Errr... an addiction to this board, curiosity, drama? :eek:

I'm so sorry to hear about this. I can only imagine the pain and confusion you're going through.

I don't have a lot else to add, sadly. It sounds like VC thought she could do poly, and did fine in group situations, but veered way off course when she went solo. Maybe the lies were a leftover guilt thing from our culture's weirdness about exramarital sex?

The real kicker, of course, is that she lied to you and THEN slept with you, meaning you could have been exposed to something. Just... so not ok. I mean, obviously you know that, I'm just saying... I can see why you're so uninclined to try to reconcile right now.

Then again, I've seen couples go through worse, sort it out, and decide to stay together. Doesn't necessarily mean that should happen here. Still, 6 years is a long time. If I were you, I'd get away, stay somewhere else, clear my head. I'd also consider contacting Paul directly, maybe send him this thread to read.

Good luck, man.
 
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Errr... an addiction to this board, curiosity, drama? :eek:

I'm so sorry to hear about this. I can only imagine the pain and confusion you're going through.

Haha, I had a brief addiction to this board and some quite long-term addictions on others. ;)

I don't have a lot else to add, sadly. It sounds like VC thought she could do poly, and did fine in group situations, but veered way off course when she went solo. Maybe the lies were a leftover guilt thing from our culture's weirdness about exramarital sex?

That is the best answer I have heard yet, got a similar response from a friend and have pulled some of that out of veganchick. She didn't make the emotional connection she wanted, which who does in the first hour? So she tried to get it through sex, and when that didn't work, she tried even more sex!!! Talk about confused!

What really mixed things up for her was her last night at the commune. She made that emotional connection with another visitor after a few hours of chatting. There was no sex, but what she had been trying to get from Paul all along was fulfilled by visitor. I think she began to feel kind of dirty for her disconnected sex with Paul.

The real kicker, of course, is that she lied to you and THEN slept with you, meaning you could have been exposed to something. Just... so not ok. I mean, obviously you know that, I'm just saying... I can see why you're so uninclined to try to reconcile right now.

Thanks for your understanding! I really don't have that from anyone right now.

Then again, I've seen couples go through worse, sort it out, and decide to stay together. Doesn't necessarily mean that should happen here. Still, 6 years is a long time. If I were you, I'd get away, stay somewhere else, clear my head. I'd also consider contacting Paul directly, maybe send him this thread to read.

Good luck, man.

You can't even imagine how much I love her! I don't know at this point if I can continue the relationship, only time will tell. It was literally only a few days ago that I had it all and couldn't imagine life without her. I still can't. :(
 
Podunk,

I understand your pain and feelings of betrayal....and I really know about the sleepless nights and sleep deprivation. My sleep cycle has not recovered yet.

I found that the sleep problem makes everything 3-30 times more emotional...and depending how you handle your emotions putting off certain conversations until you had a chance to get a couple of hrs of sleep may help. I wouldn't make any big decisions in that state that you may regret later. In that zoned out state I had to fight hard not to be reactionary....something to look out for.

The why question ....good luck on that and hope you believe it if you get one.

Are you convinced his dick didn't find other fun places to visit ....I think this could be the reason for all the lies. How or why does he have a fuck buddy if he can't get it up? ... you may want to .check with her and see if that's true...the whole limp-dick-man idea.... the way your story started I'm surprised she didn't say he was gay also ...

Good luck ...try to get some sleep D
 
I am just wondering why you are so against forgiving her. This can be repaired. Anything can be repaired if love is there. You're writing her off so quickly, such an extreme reaction. :confused:

I don't know, personally, what it would take for me to regain trust in a partner who'd knowingly endangered my health while keeping me in the dark. Forgiveness is ome thing, trust is another.
 
I found that the sleep problem makes everything 3-30 times more emotional

So true, I really need some sleep to face any more of this.

The why question ....good luck on that and hope you believe it if you get one.

Yeah, looks like I'll have to piece together and decide on the 'why' for myself. Couldn't believe her if she had one and I'm starting to believe she honestly doesn't.

Are you convinced his dick didn't find other fun places to visit ....I think this could be the reason for all the lies. How or why does he have a fuck buddy if he can't get it up? ... you may want to .check with her and see if that's true...the whole limp-dick-man idea.... the way your story started I'm surprised she didn't say he was gay also ...

Lol, maybe he's gay will be the next excuse. But I don't think other holes is the reason. There were no off-limit holes. Although as I'm typing this I asked! And guess what, they tried! Good insight Dinged! Now I'm to believe there was a condom on the limp dick at that time. Who the hell knows? Mad all over again!
 
I am just wondering why you are so against forgiving her. This can be repaired. Anything can be repaired if love is there. You're writing her off so quickly, such an extreme reaction. :confused:

I don't know, personally, what it would take for me to regain trust in a partner who'd knowingly endangered my health while keeping me in the dark. Forgiveness is ome thing, trust is another.

Well, I am four days sleep deprived at the moment, haven't eaten much etc... And my reaction is no more extreme than her action. I have been hurt so badly in the past that there are only two things that I require, trust and honesty. At the moment neither are left in this relationship. And in my current state grasping the repair or rebuilding is beyond my scope.
 
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