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  #41  
Old 04-06-2016, 01:26 PM
icesong icesong is offline
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Ha, I completely understand your burnout, nycindie! TheKnight and I have a running joke that he could make a mint by coming up with some other system where you rate yourself on two axises and end up in one of four categories, then go train sales people on it - he's been sent to like 3 different variations of this sort of thing in the past 2 years, seems like. (That said, the Asker/Guesser thing was more of a description of how people interact, not an "identity" thing.)
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  #42  
Old 04-06-2016, 01:46 PM
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GirlFromTexlahoma GirlFromTexlahoma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icesong View Post
(That said, the Asker/Guesser thing was more of a description of how people interact, not an "identity" thing.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
.
Basically, if you (the wider, general you; I'm not directing this to anyone specific) need an answer to a question, you're going to have to ask someone that question so you can know the answer -- or don't ask the question and be perplexed/frustrated/wondering what the hell the answer is. If you're nervous and fearful about asking, you still have the same choice - do it or not. As Susan Jeffers titled her book: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. There is truth behind this phrase, too: Analysis = Paralysis.
The Asker/Guesser thing was interesting to me because it's more social/cultural, not individual. Basically a look at how certain social norms shape how we interact.

Maybe because I'm just used to our general Guesser culture, but there are a lot of situations where "just go ahead and ask" seems like a bad idea to me. Being asked for a favor can create a sense of "I have to say yes or seem like a bad person" or "I have to say yes or risk screwing up this relationship". Or at the very least, "I have to say yes or things are going to be really fucking awkward".

If my neighbor, a friendly acquaintance, asks directly to borrow my truck... That's an Oh Shit for me. I don't want to loan him the truck. But I do want to stay on good terms with him. So I feel like I either need to say yes, or make up some bullshit reason why I'd really really like to but just can't sorry! But, I'm feeling that way because I make the assumption that he wouldn't ask unless he expected a yes. And that he'll be upset about a no.

I like teasing out these little social oddities, because it does help me realize *why* I do things or assume things. I don't necessarily want to get more comfortable asking casual acquaintances for favors, but it is helpful to know others might see things differently.
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  #43  
Old 04-06-2016, 04:10 PM
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Indeed, that labeling and classifying and categorizing everything...there's an awful lot. I like it because I see language and symbology as tools for analytical thinking. Shortcuts. And some of it resonates with me better than others...but the Asker/Guesser dichotomy is a little too simplistic for my liking really. There is a broad and highly situational spectrum not only of how we communicate (or don't!) our needs and wishes...but in how we feel about requests to consent to obligation and how we perceive them.

I construct some pretty elaborate systems of accounts and balances in even casual encounters with people sometimes.

So at work we had a raffle of an Irish themed gift basket. I insisted on inclusion of my new favorite cheese (Irish Cheddar with Porter, which is AMAZING) and I even went and bought some to contribute to the basket. There was also some Kerrygold butter in there. Well yesterday, I was in the break room and I was out of butter. The lady who had won the basket had her butter out and was using it, and for some reason I thought it was a shared bit of butter (there is often some in the fridge at work.) I asked, "Hey, can I get some of that? I'm out." She said sure, and handed it over and I buttered two bagels with it. I realized later, while munching on my bagels, that I'd asked not for communal butter but HER butter, and I barely know her.

What to do!? At first I was thinking I should go buy a whole new thing of that butter to put in the fridge, as an apologetic contribution for my bumble.

Instead, I sent her an email that said, "Thank you so much for the butter. You saved my breakfast! How did you like the cheese? I just discovered it myself recently and I am HOOKED. I insisted that it be included in the basket. lol!"

So she knows that the cheese was my doing, and now that account is in balance and I don't need to buy butter.

I know that most of this awkwardness was in my head, and she probably didn't feel affronted by my butter request. But just in case...now I feel it's handled. Oh, and she loved the cheese.
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  #44  
Old 04-06-2016, 04:49 PM
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GirlFromTexlahoma GirlFromTexlahoma is offline
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Spork, I do that stuff too The weird thing is, I *don't* do it with close friends or family. Those feel like they are beyond accounts and balances, and into the range of "we'd all do anything and everything for each other".

I think the reason this stuff grabbed my attention is that I had a real lightbulb moment, realizing I still see Dag as someone I need to be careful about when it comes to asking for things, or keeping things balanced. Like, I still keep track of who paid last on our dates, and make sure I'm paying half the time. I do not do that with long term, close friends. My BFF has been in school for 3 years, we haven't expected her to pay for anything. Our friends K and R host sooo much more often than the rest of us, and I don't think, oh it's my turn. There's just soooo many years of giving on all sides that trying to keep accounts would be pointless.

Strange that my boyfriend doesn't fall into that category yet. Or maybe not so strange. Eighteen months isn't that long to know someone.
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  #45  
Old 04-06-2016, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GirlFromTexlahoma View Post
Spork, I do that stuff too The weird thing is, I *don't* do it with close friends or family. Those feel like they are beyond accounts and balances, and into the range of "we'd all do anything and everything for each other".

I think the reason this stuff grabbed my attention is that I had a real lightbulb moment, realizing I still see Dag as someone I need to be careful about when it comes to asking for things, or keeping things balanced. Like, I still keep track of who paid last on our dates, and make sure I'm paying half the time. I do not do that with long term, close friends. My BFF has been in school for 3 years, we haven't expected her to pay for anything. Our friends K and R host sooo much more often than the rest of us, and I don't think, oh it's my turn. There's just soooo many years of giving on all sides that trying to keep accounts would be pointless.

Strange that my boyfriend doesn't fall into that category yet. Or maybe not so strange. Eighteen months isn't that long to know someone.
Yeah, hear ya. I've gone to keeping score of things with the ex now, as part of disentangling our lives. In some respects I don't like to worry about it...I try not to...but I'm in a tricky spot here. I'm used to having money, but now I don't, basically. That's the "long story short" of it. I'm having to dial it back to extreme frugality. And I don't mind doing that.

But I have the poly-quad that includes Analyst, who makes butt-tons of money, and Fire, who always has a Groupon or vouchers or plans for us to do fun stuff...we're forever going and doing, and I can't afford this. Any of it. They want me along, they pay my way. I used to pay for our dinners out sometimes, but now I can't do that anymore. And I worry about it, because if it were occasional, no one would have an issue...but it's like EVERY TIME...and I don't want people to feel that I'm a burden or taking advantage. I've started to feel awkward about it, and to worry about it. At one point, I said, "I understand why people don't date the recently divorced, and single Moms, and partners with potential baggage. I really do. I've got less money and more drama right now than I like. Frankly...I wouldn't date me right now."

Sometimes I really don't know what these wonderful people see in me...
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  #46  
Old 04-06-2016, 08:04 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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It's funny, GFT, that you believe you are expected to give someone what they ask for simply because they asked. Sometimes I have a problem asking for things because I never count on getting it. Oftentimes I have to come up with some kind of barter or exchange to get what I want. I would never assume someone would lend me their vehicle, for example, just because I asked for it. I usually don't think I'll ever get anything I ask for.

I remember some therapy session my ex-husband and I had a long, long time ago. My ex also had difficulties with asking for things, I think because he thought he was supposed to provide for everyone and not want too much for himself (I can't begin to count how many times I would tell him that he didn't always have to pick up the check whenever we were out to dinner with a group of people!). Our therapist gave him an assignment: he had to deliberately go into stores or restaurants and ask to use their restroom. It didn't matter of they let him use it or not; the purpose was to get used to asking. I think he was supposed to do it three times a week or something like that.

Unfortunately, he refused to do the assignment. I thought that was too bad; I think it would have helped him.
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