Depression starting from when I started dating

Hello All,

Well so after being married for 20 years, I figured I'd give a try at an open marriage. My wife and I have no kids together, she is bi and even made the claim that she had no interest in dating other men so possibly almost lesbian. I was extremely supportive of her from the very start. I always felt compersion and sympathized any time she had issues with her relationship. When things went well I was always happy for her. On her end, she is being supportive because I'd like to have kids someday.

Now on her end the relationship has been up and down. Her partner clearly wants full ownership and has been pressing her to divorce. It's been on again, off again since December 2015. Another thing which makes this more complicated is I am now long distance with my wife - saw her occasionally in November/December 2016, March 2017, and a few days in May 2017 for our anniversary, but otherwise live apart.

On my end, I started dating December 2016. I have met another lady who is very sweet and even my wife likes her although she's a bit scared that my wife is not keen on the idea. I thought I would feel some sort of relief, happiness, and euphoria. But I feel like I've been on a downward spiral from that point on. I started out slightly depressed and now I'm in this scary cycle of occasionally feeling ok and sometimes feeling so weak, down, and dark that I have to fight to survive. I try to exercise (bike, surf, dance) and eat well and it's a struggle, plus my ability to work and concentrate is suffering.

It feels like this whole experiment with polyamory has gone terribly wrong for me. Especially after she got on the plane in March 2017, I've been a total mess. It feels like a living nightmare, like we're only married on paper because we've allowed each other the freedom to enjoy our lives, but in effect we're going through hell because I'm feeling separation and pain typical of people going through divorce. Just this morning, I talked with my wife on Skype and all I could do is cry while she listened sympathetically

Any thoughts? Seems there must be a better way...It feels like in effect what we've done is allowed ourselves so much freedom that we've neglected our primary relationship.
 
Hey, you're in a hurtful place now. I wouldn't feel happy knowing my metamour was pushing my wife for divorce with me. Why do you feel your metamour (a female i presume) wants that? More importantly, how is your wife dealing with that?

I think the honest answers to those questions will make the situation clearer.
 
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Is there really a pressing reason to stay married, except for habit and the fear of losing something you've had for 20 years? It sounds like you are in an awful place right now.
 
I am so sorry, esmfromHawaii.

Here is what struck me when I read this post. You are grieving the loss of your marriage. I do realize that you are not divorcing nor do you want to go that route. But you are not living with your wife - in fact she is far away. Your metamour would really rather you not be in the picture. You want children and your wife does not. And women who want children often want to have them with primary type partners.

I think dating and meeting someone possibly compatible suddenly made real the disconnect with your wife. I think somewhere within, you know that you and your wife may be approaching ending the romantic relationship, that this may be something you need to do. Not want, but need. And, of course, this is devastating and terribly sad. Of course, you are grieving. It's not what you wanted.

Perhaps you can figure out a way to stay married and resolve this grief. But I get the sense that would do you no favors, nor your wife or the other people the two of you are seeing.

I'm so very sorry. Sometimes our feelings are way ahead of our mind and soul.
 
Hey, you're in a hurtful place now. I wouldn't feel happy knowing my metamour was pushing my wife for divorce with me. Why do you feel your metamour (a female i presume) wants that? More importantly, how is your wife dealing with that?

I think the honest answers to those questions will make the situation clearer.

My metamour wants that because she wants a pure, true love with another lesbian woman. She feels I am just interfering. It essentially started as an affair because my wife was exploring her sexuality and wanted someone to accompany her when she visited home. Their relationship has been on again / off again for a year and a half. The way my wife has been dealing with that is by asking to be patient, give her time...then my wife tells me she would only want to divorce if it's sure I meet someone who wants to and can have children with me. But this all just feels so wrong.

To be honest, at this point I really don't know if I can handle having children emotionally. I can barely take care of myself right now. Many of the separations were due to my wife getting homesick more than anything. We have always been affectionate with each other and people who see us together think we're a perfect couple.

Fear of losing something I've had for 20 years? Definitely. Feels like my whole life is falling apart. We still love each other very deeply. Just mentioning the word divorce feels awful to me.
 
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You sound in an awful spot. I'm not sure I have the life experience to provide any additional insight. If you're so down that you have trouble taking care of yourself, is there a counsellor you can see?counsellors give us techniques to manage our self care and also serve as someone whom we can bounce ideas off, amongst other things.

Galagirl here on the forums has written a lot about self love. An advanced search of her name and the term self love should pull up a few such posts. You may find them useful.

You also mentioned affair. I have written many things about affair and affair recovery, but I don't think there is anything I have written that will be applicable to your situation. It is possible that you feel codependent on your wife though I have no way of telling if that is so, but if you do, there are resources on the net and in books you can look up for that as well.

Stay safe. And get a (male) friend to talk to. Not family, unless you plan on divorce. Don't break your wife's trust. Make sure she knows who you're talking to about marital issues before you tell others about your problems.

Hang in there. It may not seem like it from the position you are in, but life does get better.
 
As an afterthought, I realised your wife has been dating on and off again for 18 months. She may or may not still be in NRE. Regardless, I get the feeling the NRE that she has experienced after 20 years of monogamy and transitioning from what you described as an affair in monogamy to polyamory, i get the feeling that the NRE has been detrimental to your existing relationship.

I have tried to explore this negative aspect of NRE in the following threads:

www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88727

www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88268

Hope some of that can help.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

Any thoughts? Seems there must be a better way...It feels like in effect what we've done is allowed ourselves so much freedom that we've neglected our primary relationship.

Why are you guys LDR? Are you military and deployed? Some other reason? If you see each other infrequently and neglect the relationship... it's going to be hard to keep calling it "primary" when you know it just isn't any more.

Add these two things...

My wife and I have no kids together, she is bi and even made the claim that she had no interest in dating other men so possibly almost lesbian.

Her partner clearly wants full ownership and has been pressing her to divorce. It's been on again, off again since December 2015

The way my wife has been dealing with that is by asking to be patient, give her time...then my wife tells me she would only want to divorce if it's sure I meet someone who wants to and can have children with me. But this all just feels so wrong.

... and I can imagine you might wonder where you fit in your wife's future and if she's still into you or what. It sounds like she's doing a slow fade away, feels guilty about it, and is hanging around so you meet someone and she can leave with less guilty. Is that what is going on here?

I think you and your wife could have a heart to heart conversation. Become more firm of purpose rather than "floating along."

  • If you both want to be together, then THIS way of going isn't working for you and it needs to change. No floating along. Close the LDR gap and decide if you still want to be open marriage or not and if wife still nuts to

  • If it is that you both care about each other a lot, but the marriage has ended and you guys are just going through the motions? There's no fixing it? And you need to part ways? Then this way of going needs to change. No floating along. Do the most caring thing you can do and part gracefully rather than dragging it out or growing resentments. Sometimes people accept a marriage is over and part ways. Sometimes people need to part ways in order to accept it is over.

Not all choices in life are "win or lose." Some are "this choice stinks and that choice stinks. So which stinks less?"

When it is ALL hard, you have to pick your hard.

I started out slightly depressed and now I'm in this scary cycle of occasionally feeling ok and sometimes feeling so weak, down, and dark that I have to fight to survive. I try to exercise (bike, surf, dance) and eat well and it's a struggle, plus my ability to work and concentrate is suffering.

Please considering seeing a doctor, counselor or other professional so you get help with this depression. At the same time, if it is situational depression, know you have to change your situation eventually. It simply cannot stay how it is.

Feels like my whole life is falling apart. We still love each other very deeply. Just mentioning the word divorce feels awful to me.

Nothing says you cannot continue to love each other post divorce. Sometimes a peaceful divorce is how to GET to keep on loving each other. Rather than building resentments until someone gets angry enough to leave and then there's all this volatile stuff.

I encourage you to see counselor and talk this out with your wife. Become firm of purpose one way or the other. Repairing the marriage and closing the LDR gap or parting ways with grace. So that either way you can keep on loving each other rather than resenting each other.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Hey GalaGirl,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'll fill in a bit here:

I am sorry you struggle.



Why are you guys LDR? Are you military and deployed? Some other reason? If you see each other infrequently and neglect the relationship... it's going to be hard to keep calling it "primary" when you know it just isn't any more.

Add these two things...

This gets into a struggle that's gone on through most of our relationship. My wife is from Taiwan and always has trouble adjusting to living in the USA. We've lived in several different cities and each time it's the same problem. So any time we've been in the USA, we've spent much of this time traveling to Taiwan and living in Taiwan. I do a lot of business in Taiwan and need to be there sometimes for meetings so it kinda works. But there's times when she went back and I didn't and that was hard.

The time she got started with her gf was when one of my business trips was cancelled. She always had an interest in meeting other women and us being separated for an extended period of time gave her that opportunity.

Another part of this is her mom is in Taiwan and she doesn't want to be too far away from her mom because her mom is alone there.

The only times we were together for an extended period of time were when we lived in Taiwan. So it's become this pattern where her stays in the USA are always temporary visits, but in Taiwan we can be more of a true couple.

I kinda sympathize with her because I know the feeling of being homesick and having trouble in a different culture with different language. But at the same time, I feel hurt of course because nothing I do to comfort or welcome her can fix this.






... and I can imagine you might wonder where you fit in your wife's future and if she's still into you or what. It sounds like she's doing a slow fade away, feels guilty about it, and is hanging around so you meet someone and she can leave with less guilty. Is that what is going on here?

I think you and your wife could have a heart to heart conversation. Become more firm of purpose rather than "floating along."

Yes exactly. Last time I saw her I felt very numb. It's the scariest feeling. But same time yesterday we cried together, know we still have each other to lean on. I was doing most of the crying.

But also during this conversation she came up with a firm description of what our relationship is going forward. Either we stay married, and she spends a few months per year with me when I am in the USA, and we spend much more time together in Taiwan. Or we find other primaries and still stay on good terms. The difficulty of course is we still love each other very much. But at least it is clear that these are the two realities. It's not going to work if we are separated most of the time. My feelings of "situational depression" have all been triggered literally the day she gets on the plane to go back to Taiwan, or I get on the plane to come back to the USA.

Fortunately we are in constant communication and have clearly outlined financial separation so we can prevent any hostile fallout. We are trying to do this the right way but it's hard.

Again thanks so much for your thoughtful responses Galagirl!
 
Nothing says you cannot continue to love each other post divorce. Sometimes a peaceful divorce is how to GET to keep on loving each other. Rather than building resentments until someone gets angry enough to leave and then there's all this volatile stuff.

Supporting this idea. My ex and I are good friends, I think in part because we did not wait for things to get intolerable in our marriage. We were not a good sexual fit and 15 years was long enough to know. We value the family we created and we will always be connected, just not as spouses. He has a GF who makes him happy and I'm glad for them. They are blissfully monogamous. Divorce does not have to be a misery. To me, a 15 year relationship that was emotionally intimate is a huge success. Took us another 2 years to renegotiate the contract and we're still connected, just in a different and better way.

OP, consider this: If you separate from this unpleasant situation, you will soon be available for a wonderful, new, more fulfilling relationship. Of course, you mourn the changes in your marriage, but the most amazing love of your life is possibly yet to be. Our divorce was all my idea and my husband met his GF two weeks after moving out. He is 54 and has never been happier.
 
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Supporting this idea. My ex and I are good friends, I think in part because we did not wait for things to get intolerable in our marriage. We were not a good sexual fit and 15 years was long enough to know. We value the family we created and we will always be connected, just not as spouses. He has a GF who makes him happy and I'm glad for them. They are blissfully monogamous. Divorce does not have to be a misery. To me, a 15 year relationship that was emotionally intimate is a huge success. Took us another 2 years to renegotiate the contract and we're still connected, just in a different and better way.

OP, consider this: If you separate from this unpleasant situation, you will soon be available for a wonderful, new, more fulfilling relationship. Of course, you mourn the changes in your marriage, but the most amazing love of your life is possibly yet to be. Our divorce was all my idea and my husband met his GF two weeks after moving out. He is 54 and has never been happier.

Yes thanks for your suggestion. It seems facing reality rather than hitting your head against the wall and making things worse is the way to go.
 
Thanks for more details.

Either we stay married, and she spends a few months per year with me when I am in the USA, and we spend much more time together in Taiwan. Or we find other primaries and still stay on good terms. The difficulty of course is we still love each other very much. But at least it is clear that these are the two realities. It's not going to work if we are separated most of the time. My feelings of "situational depression" have all been triggered literally the day she gets on the plane to go back to Taiwan, or I get on the plane to come back to the USA.

It sounds like you guys know what to do then.

Close the distance gap so you can spend more time in each other's company. Then the actions can match calling each other primaries.

Or you stop calling each other primaries since you don't spend a lot of time together. Then what you call it matches the current actions.

I hope you guys keep talking it out and figure out next steps.

I do think facing reality is better than banging head against wall. Figure out what next reality you two want to create.

Galagirl
 
Another big part of this is I'm not ready to move on. Tons of financial pressure crept up and I really need her by my side, in person. Looks like we need to focus on being good primaries, at least for now. Otherwise so much of what we've built up over the years will fall apart in a heartbeat.

Thanks all for all of your help! It's good because most people I talk to are heavily biased against any form of open relationship or polyamory. But truth is we can't add a mess to the pot and hope it all works out...doesn't work until we've resolved our own issues first.
 
You're also not just dealing with polyamory issues. You've also got the problem of long distance with your wife. That in itself is difficult. If there's articles or help forums around that, they may be a useful resource too.
 
Hi esmfromhawaii,

I don't suppose it would be possible for you to move to Taiwan and live there permanently? The issue of where the two of you will live seems to be the main thing that's pushing your marriage toward a divorce. Which in turn, I think, is causing your depression. I am assuming you are not yet ready to enact an amicable divorce, so I am trying to think of how you could keep your marriage together.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi esmfromhawaii,

I don't suppose it would be possible for you to move to Taiwan and live there permanently? The issue of where the two of you will live seems to be the main thing that's pushing your marriage toward a divorce. Which in turn, I think, is causing your depression. I am assuming you are not yet ready to enact an amicable divorce, so I am trying to think of how you could keep your marriage together.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Hey Kevin,

Actually that question did come up. Currently I am in Hawaii and part of what's happened is over 20 years of marriage the only way I could manage to make it work was by following my wife back to Taiwan. Something that came out in therapy was if I do go back to Taiwan, there's the danger that I might sink deeper into depression due to the feeling I am following a pattern of accomodating the needs of my wife. If I am there and she's going exploring her sexuality and I'm meeting other women, what happens to our relationship? And on my end, even though my wife was fully informed and agreed on me meeting other women, I love her too much and miss her too much to get involved with anyone else. So there has to be some way to break the cycle.

Another aspect of this is her current on again / off again girlfriend definitely does not want to share her. The odd dynamic is my wife has to "sneak out" to talk with me and it's like she's having an affair with me to keep our relationship together.
 
WTF, sneaking around the girlfriend to talk to you. Doesn't sound very kind to you to choose such an unsupportive gf :( (And actually it's not very kind to her either.)

Do you want to close the relationship again? Would going to Taiwan and doing monogamy work? You could ask your wife if she's willing to give that a new start.

Or maybe letting go that one gf and finding someone more supportive would do the trick already.
If your wife is not willing to do that... I understand how you would feel that she has already chosen to leave the marriage.
 
Something that came out in therapy was if I do go back to Taiwan, there's the danger that I might sink deeper into depression due to the feeling I am following a pattern of accomodating the needs of my wife.

If the marriage continuing/improving needs you to live in the same place, and wife cannot live anywhere but Taiwan because she wants to be close to her mom and so on... then aren't you doing this move for the needs of the marriage?

Could the mom be willing to move with you guys to a new location? Not to live in your house, but nearby like nether or in a mother-in-law cottage on the premises or similar? If not, what else is there but Taiwan if the goal is to work on the marriage? What suggestions does wife propose that she is willing to try?

If I am there and she's going exploring her sexuality and I'm meeting other women, what happens to our relationship? And on my end, even though my wife was fully informed and agreed on me meeting other women, I love her too much and miss her too much to get involved with anyone else. So there has to be some way to break the cycle.

You could both agree not to date anyone NEW. Existing people is one thing, no more new people until the marriage is more solid. Adding more people to a wonky situation would not help.

Another aspect of this is her current on again / off again girlfriend definitely does not want to share her. The odd dynamic is my wife has to "sneak out" to talk with me and it's like she's having an affair with me to keep our relationship together.

Is your wife in trouble? Dating someone who hurts her? Who won't let her go when she tries to break up?

Galagirl
 
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WTF, sneaking around the girlfriend to talk to you. Doesn't sound very kind to you to choose such an unsupportive gf :( (And actually it's not very kind to her either.)

Do you want to close the relationship again? Would going to Taiwan and doing monogamy work? You could ask your wife if she's willing to give that a new start.

Or maybe letting go that one gf and finding someone more supportive would do the trick already.
If your wife is not willing to do that... I understand how you would feel that she has already chosen to leave the marriage.

Tinwen you got it right here. My wife met this gf before we even had any agreements on having an open relationship so essentially it's an affair. She was very clear with this woman that she was married but was not clear about this to me until they had already been talking and dating for several months and I confronted her on the subject. She always talked about this woman as a "friend" who she traveled with but even though I had a sixth sense from the way she talked about her that it was a physical relationship.

Fortunately my wife is willing to leave because this person has been on again / off again from the beginning. This instability is affecting me because I feel like I would be letting my wife go into a train wreck. It's not at all healthy for the future of either of us.
 
If the marriage continuing/improving needs you to live in the same place, and wife cannot live anywhere but Taiwan because she wants to be close to her mom and so on... then aren't you doing this move for the needs of the marriage?

Could the mom be willing to move with you guys to a new location? Not to live in your house, but nearby like nether or in a mother-in-law cottage on the premises or similar? If not, what else is there but Taiwan if the goal is to work on the marriage? What suggestions does wife propose that she is willing to try?

You hit it on the nose. I would need to be in Taiwan with my wife together to work on not just the marriage, but also my business and her being with her mom. My wife is definitely willing to try


You could both agree not to date anyone NEW. Existing people is one thing, no more new people until the marriage in more solid. Adding more people to a wonky situation would not help.

Well the existing people ARE the problem. My wife has an unstable relationship with someone who wants our marriage to end, and I was in a relationship with someone who feels like she's a mistress and wants to be in a simple 1-1 monogamous marriage. So yes ok to go out and meet people but NOT to seriously date or plan lives around anyone else until our lives are in order.


Is your wife in trouble? Dating someone who hurts her? Who won't let her go when she tries to break up?

Galagirl

Yes it's causing lots of problems. It's definitely not a healthy relationship and I get this feeling the constant on again / off again is wearing her down as it's wearing me down too. Fortunately my wife isn't in any danger but long term I just can't see how this relationship could work. I think the reason for not letting go is this woman really cares about my wife but at the same time cannot accept her being married to someone else. But from talking to my wife, she's been making it clear she is willing to let go because she sees how much this is hurting not just her but also our marriage.
 
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