Mom, Where are we going? Crazy dear.

Hey, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry there was so much negativity coming at you so quickly for a minute there. Your blog should be a safe space, and, although I felt my comment was important, it might've been better to PM you with it so as not to add to the heap. Here's hoping for the best resolution for all involved.
 
Consider this.

A married Couple, and a bisexual women, They met as friends, like each other, and want to hang out more. So they continue meting as friends. Then one day the wife drinks enough alcohol to be brave, and she reaches out in a flirty way to the bi-friend. Hugging, kissing, and and generally being obviously flirty. This flirtyness, and the easy acceptance on both sides started a conversation between the wife, and the husband. And a separate conversation between the wife, and bi-friend. There was talk of meeting up as dating, and A question about the possibility of date as a group of three. The wife seems skeptical, but is willing to give it a try. Date nights get set up. And about once or twice a month all three meet up for dating. Sometime out at an event or a restaurant sometime for a dinner/movie evening at the married couples house.

After a 3 or 4 months of this type of dating, the wife decides she wants to push things to the next level. There has been no talk about safe sex practices, because that has not been on the table so far, and the wife still has some reservation, but still wants to move things forward. So the next visit from the girlfriend happens to be unplanned, but the wife's decision is made. She makes her move, sets up a senario that gets her what she wants. Her naked, and the husband, and girlfriend paying her special attention. Things are still not going very far, and the wife wants more. So she tells the Husband, and girlfriend that she wants more. They both join her in being naked, and things finally make it to the next place (after a very quick discussion about birth control). Now there are no longer just all dating, now they are all lovers.

Things continue in this way for another month or so, but with more frequent visits from the girlfriend. Then suddenly something happens that pushes everyone to be ready to move the girlfriend into the Married couples home. The girlfriend moves in, the wife still expresses some reservations, but also continues to say that she's willing to give poly a try. By the end of the first month the wife is no longer interested in a sexual relationship with the girlfriend, but the girlfriend is still interested. The husband stick by the wife, and has been given the impression that the wife is ok with sharing, so he attempts to continue a sexual intimate relationship with the girlfriend. The wife stops talking to the girlfriend as if she considers her a friend. When the girlfriend invites the wife out for shopping the wife choose to stay home with the husband. Eventually the girlfriend figures it out, and realize the wife isn't bi, isn't interested in her, and feel guilty for having attempted to continue a physical relationship with the wife when the wife did not want that.

The girlfriend attempts to offer the wife other type of intimate relationships so that both the wife and the girlfriend can continue to love the husband. First it's a suggestion to get the wife to talk about sexual things that she would like to share doing with the husband, but before the girlfriend can explain the wife cuts her off, and makes it very clear that this suggestion is not going any where. So the girlfriend trys to just be the wifes friend, but most of her friendly overtures are brushed aside. The girlfriend asks the wife to talk to her, to find a way that they can communicate. The wife agrees to try, but doesn't follow through before the girlfriend loose patients. So the girlfriend calls of the relationship which had not been physical in over a month with the wife.

Now the relationship between the Husband and Girlfriend is struggling, but the relationship between the wife and husband has turned weird. The girlfriend see it as dysfunctional, and unhealthy, but can't put her finger on why. The girlfriend trys to continue to have a relationship with the husband, and is given a lot of silent treatment from the wife. The girlfriend hears how the wife isn't comfortable talking to her, and that the wife doesn't like seeing her with the husband. But the girlfriend has invested a lot into having a relationship with the husband, so she keeps attempting to date him, but he is more and more distracted with the wife. He is spending more and more time coddling the wife, despite hearing from the girlfriend how this should not be happening.

What is your reaction to the above store. What should the wife do?
What should the husband do?
What should the girlfriend do?
 
Hey, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry there was so much negativity coming at you so quickly for a minute there. Your blog should be a safe space, and, although I felt my comment was important, it might've been better to PM you with it so as not to add to the heap. Here's hoping for the best resolution for all involved.

Annabel I am going to ask Chipmunk to read your story. I haven't read all of it, but she may find it an eye opener. I would like Airyn to read your story and red peppers.

I have tried several times to get Airyn to read one of GalaGirls blogs. I'm going to be my verbally agressive self the next few days and make it clear they don't get to argue. They will take time out to learn something. Grrrr....

*deep breath* If I'm not calm now it will only be worse later. I promise not to be violent, I will not get violent. I will be calm. I will remember to breath.
 
Part 2 of Consider this.

In my consider this story look at the whole thing from a different perspective.

Replace "wife" with Chipmunk; "the girlfriend" with Numina, and "husband" with Airyn.
I have been in the place of the girlfriend in this store for many many month. Instead of someone being kind enough to point this out to me, I have had many people pointing at this, and that as being my fault, me manipulating things to my way, what I want. EVERY ONE MANIPULATES the world and people arround them. You do it, I do it, Airyn does, it Chipmunk does it, Wolf does it. So does my MiL. That is normal. If we didn't try to get things to line up the way we want then we would not be normal. We all do and say things to get what we want out of life, out of a situation, or out of a person.

What people forget is that I have been willing to talk , to reconsider, to be flexible when and where I can. Sure I may have blown up dozens of times at Airyn, about how things had been going. Sure I didn't explain just how bad my temper is when it flares, but it is there. My temper is what Chipmunk is afraid of. I have never blown up at her, but she can see it, Wolf tells me I am scary in person and prefers me to go to her school versus calling and talking over the phone. She "manipulates" me into doing what she wants. But I am working on redirecting my temper. I'm working at a solution. At reminding Airyn why he and I have been together this long, what it took to be here 20 years later. I'm asking him if he really wants to give all that up for a short infatuation with a young women who is emotional, and mental dependent. A person he sees as being so weak that she can't pick her self up when she falls. I am not like that. I have fallen in this, and I have just laid there for a long time now. But I'm getting back up as I write this.

Things will have to be different now. I don't like the idea that I may take some of their control over the direction of thier relationship away from them. Unfortunately it may come to that.

For one thing I will be making it clear that if Airyn wants to continue to be in a relationship with me, and he wants it to be as a married couple that he will have to act like he is married to me, and not like he is married to Chipmunk. First I have already told Airyn that I no longer consider us a married couple. I removed our wedding ring almost two months ago now. So if he wants us to be a married couple he will have to start fresh. Present me with an engagement ring as if we are getting engaged to be married. A one year engagement along with a one year lease on a new place. Monthly check ups between us, and at the end of the year a discusson between us like what he had last Sunday. Where we decide what our future will be.

Secondly I'll be letting Airyn know that the possibility of him marrying Chipmunk, or getting hand-fasted to her is out of the question. In a couple years if their relationship is still there, and they have turned it into something healthy then maybe. He and I will also be talking about that account he and Chipmunk have co-signed. They will close it, and if Airyn wants an account in his own name he can go get one in a bank separate from either of us. They will also not be adding Airyn's name to Chipmunk's lease in any way. It's smakes to much of him moving in with Chipmunk, of her playing house. Chipmunk has been seeing Airyn as her future husband, and that should be remedied. If not then they can move out together, and I'll move to the next city over.

Having my MiL hear, and being able to explain to her how I had been feeling, has helped me get past some of what has been holding me down. She is the only person I know who understand just how traumatic what I was feeling actually was/is. She is probably also the only person who could have told me what I needed to hear, and have me actually get the message. So that I could start getting past one of the bigger hurts I was dealt in all this.
 
Hi Numina,

I have been reading your blog. I am so new to this that I don't have any practical advice but I just wanted to say that I feel for you. Your life has been so difficult since this all started, and as I read along, all I could think of was how hard you tried for so little return. I hope that whatever you decide to do next improves your life, because girl, you are overdue for some happy. I truly wish you the best.
 
Hi Numina,

I have been reading your blog. I am so new to this that I don't have any practical advice but I just wanted to say that I feel for you. Your life has been so difficult since this all started, and as I read along, all I could think of was how hard you tried for so little return. I hope that whatever you decide to do next improves your life, because girl, you are overdue for some happy. I truly wish you the best.

Hear hear. Or is it here here. Never quite been sure on that one.
 
PM's sent.

For now.
 
Scatter brained; stress; anxiety

So I spent my morning rather industriously. I was putting together my thoughts on things I want to discuss with Chipmunk and Airyn. Some of it was meant to be talked about with just Airyn, some with both of them together. The way I typically do this is i will write out what ever comes to mind. Then the next day or so I'll re read it and edit out the snide, or aggressive, and leave it a more calm piece. Then another day or so later I'll come back again, and re read it to do the same thing. By the time I'm done, I'm no longer angry or triggered by anything in what I'm writing, and I'm ready to talk about what ever it is.

I was also working on re-upholstering a piano bench. So Good time to do my thinking, and I left my writing open on my PC. Well when Airyn and Chipmunk got up I left to change clothes, and didn't realize that my writing page was open, versus say my email, or facebook, or knitting articles.

When I go back into the kitchen and sit down to put my shoes on Chipmunk heads to the bedroom, and I tell Airyn I have some things I'd like to talk to the two of them about. He tells me he knows he saw it on my PC, and so did Chipmunk. Well that was a stress-or. What I had written wasn't for them to read, or even what I would have actually said, it was my thoughts on several topics that have been bothering me, and on topic that need to change or be clarified giving the recent turn of events.

So I asked if they read the whole thing. No, but enough was the answer. I start off mostly calm trying to keep a civil tone, and not make things worse, but Airyn is being very angry, frustrated with me, and things degenerate. After several minutes of stupid angry on both sides we both stop. Airyn asked me what changed from last night to today. What triggered this. He tells me yesterday he was optimistic, but now he's being reamed, and isn't feeling I'm as serious as I was yesterday.

I don't answer for a long while and he asks again. So I tell him I'm thinking. I am trying to clear my head of the angry, stress, anxiety and give a real answer. As usual it is not a simple answer. But I put what I can together and we talk. My anxiety rises and I tell him that I feel anxious, and stressed. He asks me If I want to get a hug, and I get up and go to him for some hugs. WE work it out, Airyn's frustration disappears, but I'm still anxious stressed, and ready to just leave and walk till I'm better.

Airyn tell's me they are getting ready to leave and that i should stay home, and not go walking in the rain. That I don't have to go, or if i really just want to get out to let him drop me off at my stated destination. He's still holding me, and I'm more calm, but obviously ready to tip right back into it again. i tell him that I'll just take a hot shower, and need to be alone for a while.

Airyn: "Good Idea, I'll talk to Chipmunk and tell her not to be upset about your stuff."
Me: "I already did."
Airyn: "you did?"
Me: "Yeah when I grabbed my bag from the bedroom." Then I tell him what I said, and that she seemed to hear me and not be bothered.
Me: "My only plans for today were to go to one store with you two, and have lunch with my friend. I had no intention of starting an argument, or of upsetting you two. I wasn't even going to talk about any of that today, it's your guys day."

Airyn: "It's ok, relax, it was a mistake I understand. Are we back to yesterday now?"
Me: Nodding
Airyn: "Ok, I'm sorry, and I'm not frustrated any more, can you tell?"
Me: "Yes, I can hear your not frustrated. And I'm sorry too, i should have checked that my stuff was closed before I walked away. Forgive me?"

Skip to me getting in the shower. I find a calmer place and Airyn comes to check on me. I have issue with headaches, sleepy, needing to eat, and taking a hot shower that don't mix well with me. So Airyn tells me I've been in the shower a long while, and asks if I'm better. I tell him that they should go that I still need some alone time, but that I feel less anxious. Ok, but get out soon, don't make yourself sick in there ok?

Later Airyn tells me he told Chipmunk that that was like reading my diary, it wasn't something I would have left out on purpose, and that what they saw wasn't meant to be read, and would not have been said in the same fashion it was written. She apparently handled it well.

They left for a coffee shop, and Airyn started messaging me for Move out cost estimates for Chipmunk. They were building a spreadsheet. This turned into a long-distance round table discussion between the three of us. Chipmunk actually took the initiative and sent me a message. We then spent an hour or two discussing what "things" she would need and where to get them at a reasonable price.

When they got home, she was still feeling chatty, and commented that it was some how easier to talk in Chat. I nodded, and told her that sometimes it is easier for me to talk to Airyn in chat too. This I have said before. They head back out to get Wolf, and when they get back She's still up for chatting. And not just boring mundane, but serious business stuff. Moving out, things she needs, would like, ect. Speaking her mind freely and not a silent brick wall. Has she found her voice? Is she going to show me her colors? What she's made of, who she really is? Is there someone in there I can actually relate to?

If nothing else she's did not treat me like i terrify her for once, and that feels good.
 
Sounds to me like maybe you should get upset on 'their' days more often, you'll get more hugs....
Seems to work for him.
(sorry, can't help the snark)
*****
I'm glad that you and she may have found a way to talk!
 
Sounds to me like maybe you should get upset on 'their' days more often, you'll get more hugs....
Seems to work for him.
(sorry, can't help the snark)

hahahha, I try to be the adult. (note the "try" part)

I was also glad to have an opportunity to point out to Airyn that I don't have any trouble speaking my mind to Chipmunk. Like me telling her what was up while stressy grabbing things to get myself out of the house. Sure something I take my time with, but not everything.

Mi am glAd ur getting clarity and more respect. Did u and she ever speak on monday. Sorry silly new tablet.

They had Monday and Tuesday this week. Monday she asked if I wanted to go thrift store shopping, I said sure. I was thinking she wanted to go just us so she could try talking to me in very public places. Then Airyn asked if I was going with them.

I told him I had agreed to go, but that I didn't realize it would be the three of us. HE APPOLIGIZED. It was not his mistake to accept the blame for. But then I had not directly told Chipmunk that I would not be going anywhere with them as a group (After how Things went this weekend I am back to that). I told him it was fine I'd that I'll be ok with it. We went out all three and shopped a several thrift stores. No confrontations, no angry eyes, no pouting. Just three people shopping. When we get done we drop everything off at the house, Airyn and Chipmunk leave to pick up Wolf, and Then Wolf and Airyn come see me in the bed room.

Wolf is all excitedly telling me about her day, and what not. I give her bed time hug and kiss and send her on her way.
Airyn sits beside me. Gives hugs, kisses, and we talk. Since we know our voice carry into the bathroom and to Chipmunks "space" we talk very quietly. He tells me that Chipmunk was happy with how the day went, and that he told her that we only have problems on days he's "with" me that normally it is he and I inviting her out and her pouting that causes stress, and anxiety. I nodded, and said that maybe it will make a difference seeing how it can be soo much easier when people are cool. (but I'm not putting any expectation on that idea) You know "lead by example". This was the first time she had invited me to join them when they are have "their" time. She did not get the guts to talk to me on Monday.

I have a very good Idea what she wants to talk about, and our conversation Tuesday did not include that.

I have a feeling that after the conversation Airyn and I (sorta) had in the kitchen that Airyn instigated talking to her about move out cost, versus saving goals. I told him when I was explaining part of what had set me off, that just watching the two of them "be" a couple together is enough to trigger me now. I have since figured out that Friday but me past my breaking point. With my MiL's help and some serious thinking Saturday, and long discussion with Airyn Sunday I have started finding my feet again.

For a long time there I was down and out, just agreeing to anything and everything. I told Airyn He and I had to break that habit together, we created it together. That habit had more to do with his not really listening to me, and me giving up on trying to be heard. He's trying to show me that he's taking our soon to be engaged status seriously. More about that at another time though.
 
Anger, and seeing yourself in your kids

I've had issues with anger since I was a child. I see this poping up here and there with my kid. However since I have struggled to stay in control I talk with her about her anger and what she could have done differently. I have had to show her how she has damaged her relationships with others due to her anger, and losing control. We talk about it every time she gets set off. Usually after she has cooled down.

I have been informed that I do not come across as a hot head when I write. Well I leave a lot out. A 3 hour conversation that started with me going off on Airyn gets condensed to just the meat of it, or the parts that mattered most to me, and the angry ridiculous gets left out. I'm human. *Shrug* I have scars on my fists from the objects I've attempted to punch my hands through. I have scars on my feet from cutting them when kicking at things. I have mellowed, and have more control. I have been known to have a complete black out when my anger flared as a teen. I was in a fight in school, and didn't know what had happened until another student informed me that I had thrown the girl who attacked me across the hallway. She was a foot taller then me. Luckily she's wasn't actually injured, just her pride, and dignity. I was the new girl and she "thought" she was "protecting" her territory. Even at that point I was working to keep these things under wraps. I stood up after being knocked down and told her and her friends to back off (in my very verbally agressive nature). She didn't take this ahh suggestion and grabbed my hair and slammed my head into the lockers behind me. I found this out later as well, but might have figured it out any ways as I came too with a smashing headache.

After that incident I have been much more vigilant about keeping my anger in check. And yes Airyn will tell me to be calm, to take a deep breath, to clear my head. He has asked me to think first many times. He has asked me if my anger right now is worth the price later. He knows. He was there. He has also helped me identify where some of my agression comes from. We believe that it began so early due to the way my mom and dad got divorced. What was happening in my life at that time. How she married my dad's close friend, and that man was not good for me or my family. That the problems between me and the step-dad, and the problems these caused between me and my mom are a large part of where this started for me.

Is this an excuse? No, it is a place to begin the healing process. To get over the past, and live in the present, and have a future. However anger is an issue for Wolf as well, so some part of it was there to begin with, and the events in my childhood only triggered this to get worse. Wolf has me to learn from, to talk to. We work it out, when we can. I tell her how different she is, how different her childhood is from mine, her dads, and from the kids she meets at school. That this difference makes her unique and special. I have told her that being different, is way better then being normal. Everyone else is normal and that is sooo boring. She's even gotten a few students to agree with her when she has expressed this in her own way.

Her story. She was sitting at lunch with several friends, guys and girls. One girl asked Wolf would she rather be weird, crazy, or normal (lol these are kids). Her answer was quick. I am weird because I am me. Who wants to be like every one else. A fellow on the other side looked at her, and was obviously thinking about that. He nodded, and tells these girls, I want to be weird to, no normal for me. Then things get more kidish and giggles get started.

This is real. This is me. Things are better now then when I was a child, or a teen. Having a kid helped, just growing up has helped. I have control issues. I want to be in control of me at all times. This desire has also kept me away from alcohol till just the past couple years. Sadly I'm struggling to maintain control again, but I'm working on it. I remember all the things I have done to get control, and will use what I learned.
 
Learning the high price tag that goes along with out of control anger is so important. It's great that you can be there for your daughter, to support her while she manages this crucial life lesson. :)
 
It's been a while

It’s been a long while since I last posted, a lot has happened in the past few months.
I still read the blogs, but have not been posting anything.

Chipmunk is moved out, Airyn sees her once or twice a week for a few hours a week. Airyn and I are reconnecting, working things out between us. Even though he is currently "seeing" her they are not as serious as before. No sex, no talking about getting married, him moving in with her, and that sort of thing.

There's a big long story behind where things stand now, but I'm not feeling like getting into all that.

It's time to move on, move forward, let go of the past. Learn from the hurt so to speak. It's not been easy to get where things stand right now, and moving forward from here will be difficult. There is less fighting, and arguing at home. Wolf is less stressed, and is enjoying her new room.

We are planing to paint it in colors (mostly) of her choosing. I'll be making her some spiffy curtains (once we get the paint on the walls). After a bit of work I'll have a hobby room, and a table to sew at. I haven't had a space/place for my hobbies in well longer then I care to admit. My hobby things will soon no longer be hiding in totes, and closets, and storage spaces.

More when I have time.
 
I was actually thinking about you the other day and wondered how you were doing.
I'm glad to hear things seem calmer. Wishing you all the best in moving forward and learning from all your experiences.
 
I've been wondering about you too. I'm glad you will be having some space for your hobbies to be done, I know for me, that's what I prefer spending my time doing when my husband's on dates, its a great way to pass the time in a positive way. I hope things keep getting better between you and Airyn. *hug*
 
I also am glad to hear from you. And glad to hear that you are moving forward. Room for hobbies is a lovely thing, isn't it?
 
Good to hear.

It's good to hear from you guys.

Airyn and I are not yet in the clear, but several things (important things) are getting better, or at least back on track. There's still a lot to work out.

While I have asked Airyn, and want very much to move forward, I still often find myself mired in the (recent) past. Airyn and I have talked about this here and there.

I'm still working on communication, and setting boundary's. Learning who I am now, today, and knowing what I want, how I feel, and if what I feel is valid (or appropriate) to the situation I am in.

So expect to see plenty of "oh things are good" followed by "This doesn't feel right"

I don't see Airyn's relationship with Chipmunk as healthy, I don't see Chipmunk as capable of having healthy relationships (at least not right now). I've told Airyn on several occasions that his relationship with her is toxic. Sigh. Things are different, Airyn didn't like hearing that from me, but couldn't argue about the obvious differences we are ironing out within our lives.

Hobby space:
In talks about Airyn wanting space of his own, a room that he can say is his, with his things, his art and such I learned something about myself.

That I want that as much as he does. Maybe it's resentment, but I also realized that His major hobby has always been visible, but mine has often been in storage. The times when I have made it a priority I still didn't have the "space" to be comfortable while working.

I asked Airyn when he and I were talking about the hobby space we are creating for me, when the last time was that I had a place to set up my sewing machines, and sew in comfort. Not cramped, sitting on the floor (which can be done if you are determined enough) or standing. He couldn't remember any more then I could. We talked about it extensively after that. I got very emotional, and I learned just how unhappy I have been with this, with out understanding that I was upset.

So the next day we went out and found a table to get my room started. Now I just need a way to get it here, it won't fit in my car. Probably end up renting something later this week, if My friend can't help out.
 
So where do we stand right now?

Airyn is dating Chipmunk, on a much more limited basis than before. There’s an odd mix of knowledge, and lack of knowledge as to where their relationship stands. I want to know, but since his (continued) relationship with Chipmunk upsets me he doesn’t want to talk about it. There are some rules or temporary guidelines. I believe all our rules are considered changeable, some more so than others, but all have an expectation (from both of us) of being relaxed (or set aside completely) at some point.

Airyn has decided that he is ok with me dating guys, and girls. Not just girls, and not just a NSBF. This has yet to be tested outside of talking about it, so I’m not certain. But then I’m not certain about a lot of things still.

Airyn and I have also talked about him dating other women, and the possibility of dating the same person in the future. Mostly just talking about expectation, rules/boundaries. Timelines, maturity, things to avoid.


Things just between he and I?

Well that’s been hit and miss. Very rocky and uncertain for a while. We are more solidly decided to work things out between us, and have had some very good times together. Unfortunately I’m still very much hurt, I still react poorly to seeing Chipmunk (have seen her very, very little since she moved out). Anxiety, stress, anger, you name it. Increased heart rate, headache, light headed (with black spots in my vision) to the point of almost blacking out (fainting), and an inability to think clearly. The jealousy issue that (I now realize started popping up around the year end holidays) are still with me. So yeah there’s still a lot of hurt here that’s not so easy to work with or around. Or even to talk about sometimes.


How does one work to find a happy place with someone, when they continue to be involved in a relationship that has so negatively impacted our lives? I want to move forward, work things out with Airyn. Make peace with the past (almost) year, but find myself often mired in that past, still hurt, and emotional, even after having a good day, or week, or weekend. I would like for Airyn to understand this better, where I’m coming from so we could talk about it without getting defensive, and angry with each other. And of course I would like for this thing with Chipmunk to be over. They have broken up (and gotten back together) about 5 or 6 times now. The last time was major, and was a “never going to see, or speak to her again” kind of ending. That lasted a very short time all things considered, and his wanting/and deciding to see her again has been hurtful and upsetting for me on several levels. More on that later maybe. I have other things to share, and things I’m musing, mulling over in my head.
 
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