fluid bonding/bareback

It's like 3% without antiretrovirals, yes some people shed without an outbreak but very few. As I said before, a huge amount of people who have herpes are fluid bonded with negative partners. That's something also true for women with HIV. Lots of those have had children with men that have a negative status.

The testing thing is another issue in itself. Lots of people who swear they'd never allow someone with hsv 2 in their sexual network don't actually know if they have it themselves yet are fine making calls about other people.
 
It's like 3% without antiretrovirals, yes some people shed without an outbreak but very few.

Source?
As I said before, a huge amount of people who have herpes are fluid bonded with negative partners
.

Source?

The testing thing is another issue in itself. Lots of people who swear they'd never allow someone with hsv 2 in their sexual network don't actually know if they have it themselves yet are fine making calls about other people.
Ermmm...Source?

I honestly feel you are just pulling 'facts' out of your nethers here London. "You think", does not scientific statistics make. It's true that people are not routinely tested for HSV and some people 'are' asymptomatic (in fact I wondered about myself possibly being so) I'd have no way of knowing though since no one is going to test me on the NHS because I am curious.
As I said before I have had partners with HSV before, it wasn't an issue until pregnancy and then I worried about it. Sometimes life circumstances mean that you 'have to' be extreme (like the aforementioned autoimmune disordered) and possibly more extreme than warranted, but it is better to be safe than sorry.
 
Sheesh.

I can't say what the % of risk is.

But, I have herpes. I have been fluid-bonded with Maca and GG for over 15 years & both test negative (so far) every 6 months.

AND

fyi-I was curious last year, and asked the dr to test me on that curiosity because when I learned I had herpes, they couldn't test for 1 or 2. It was verified visually. ANYWAY-they tested me because I was curious-and I test negative for 1, positive for 2. Both guys test positive for 1 and negative for 2.

SO-not only have we not spread 2 from me to them in spite of a rowdy, wild and crazy fluid bonded sex life-but we also haven't spread 1 from either of them to me.

Shrug-I think it's always better to be safer than sorry-in terms of educating yourself on risk.
On the other hand-the idea that "I simply trust my partner to identify partners we can trust" doesn't work for me-I trusted the man who gave me herpes 22 years ago. I trusted that we were actually being monogamous-until I caught him in bed with another woman.
SOOOOOO-no. I don't trust that someone is actually trustworthy just because I love them or because my partner loves them.
 
Study about transmission using arvs and condoms.

I'll link more soon.

Studies about transmission always involve one partner who is negative and another who is positive. In every study, the people at the end who didn't use condoms and are still negative are scientific proof that these couples exist. Anecdotally, I also came across numerous women in midwifery who were positive with a negative partner or vice versa. Those whose partner tested positive were advised to use condoms because pregnancy compromises your immune system. Lots of those women would be tested and would be negative for the type of herpes their partner had.
 
Perhaps that's because there are segments of the population that are immune to any given virus, especially ones that target the immune system itself. That doesn't speak conclusively to either side of this debate.
 
The amount of people that are naturally immune to herpes is tiny. This goes some way to explaining why.
 
I am fluid bonded (I really hate that term) with my live-in partner. We use condoms with everyone else, every time, no exceptions. If we were in some sort of closed triad or quad we'd probably relax the policy, but until then we're extremely stringent about it.
 
I want to have unprotected sex with a second partner

Douglas and I have been mostly exclusively having unprotected sex for several years. I dated someone else, Tim, and we were having unprotected sex but it caused some problems for Doug and I. I told him it was happening after Tim and I stopped using condoms. He was hurt and I am remorseful. Tim and I started using condoms again, then we broke up.

I'd like to maneuver the situation better with Tommy. Tommy and his wife are okay with us having unprotected sex. Doug and I have talked about it, and he's not uncomfortable with the idea. He doesn't love it. I don't want to push Doug away so I've been resistant with Tommy, but it's something I think about often.

I'm wondering if anyone can offer any experience laden advice on the subject? I've planted the seed, now I want this plant to grow!
 
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May I ask why this is a strong desire? Do you just find condoms unpleasant or is there some other reason?
 
Why is he reluctant? Often it is because people see restricting fluid bonding as a way of restricting intimacy with others. My answer to that is pulling out and spraying my face with man seed is actually a far more intimate act than depositing inside me. There is no reason for people to restrict their partner's from fluid bonding where all involved agree to the same risk management procedures and protocols. It's an easy place for people to exercise control and judgement against others under the guise of "good" poly though.
 
i skipped over most the entire thread after the first page

i don't get the concern about focusing on condom use.
why is everyone so self-concious about it ?
why do people take it to be such a personal attack ?

why is it so personal "you don't trust me?" instead of "maybe you do, maybe i do, maybe it's just because to ease both of your minds so no one has to worry about the possibilities and just get down to enjoying each other" the unspoken consideration because no one wants to be called out on what they may or may not have. and instead of making it an issue, just play it safe, ... if no one has anything fine, then there's nothing to worry about, it's just habit, one of those "we just met, here's the bedroom, here's the bed, here's my body, here's a condom, ... now we can get to enjoying each other, the feel, the warmth, the closeness, the intense passion"

why make it a issue or think of it like a personal attack ?

i am 99% sure i don't have anything, but 1%, ... that's a huge number. so it's nothing against me, and i'm not bringing it up to say 'well i don't think your safe', just something to think about as 'you don't know who else i've been with' so to ease your mind, we don't have to question what either of us has or doesn't have.

---

personally, i've only got one lady i'm with.
and she is very safe about insisting the people she's with wear a condom, it's not an affront to say "i don't trust you", it's "just to make sure"

because it gets really scary if one person refuses to wear a condom, and he's seeing other people without a condom, and they're seeing other people without a condom, ... testing every 6mo, or testing every 3mo, ... how safe are you if 2 weeks after you get tested the other person didn't know they have something ? because they were tested a month before and it came up clean.

so it's not about trust, but thinking about it as "with this here rubber i hope to ease your conscious that things are going to be alright"

---

i see lots on these poly forums about insecurities being issues the person who is insecure needs to get over and deal with. having something isn't an insecurity, being insulted when no one said anything, nothing was implied, and no reason was given, ... that sounds like a huge insecurity to me.
 
i can't deny that, ... i'm fine joking around about it, ... i'm fine talking about it, (with certain people), ... to doctors i'm not so easy talking about it, ... in the bedroom (of all places) i'm strangely quiet about 'talking' about it, ... things i gotta work on.
 
"Unspoken" rules generally get broken...
Not if you date sensible people who have your best interests at heart. It's pretty obvious that sleeping with someone you don't know very well without a condom is risky and will put your fluid bonded partners at risk. Only someone selfish and disrespectful would knowingly put their loved one at risk of harm.
 
It's really not that hard to say " hey, if you plan on having sex without condoms with others, let me know so we can reevaluate our protection use" it doesn't need to be an "unspoken rule"
 
It's really not that hard to say " hey, if you plan on having sex without condoms with others, let me know so we can reevaluate our protection use" it doesn't need to be an "unspoken rule"

I don't even understand what an unspoken rule is, how can you have a rule if no one has even communicated it? Especially when it is about something so fundamental as sexual health...Personally I don't get how people can be so coy with people they are intimate with.
 
I never assume anyone has common sense lol. I had coworker once mop the floor without sweeping first because the chore list didn't say to. I had told my boss he forgot to add sweep to the lust but he said no one could be that dumb lol. I still give her shit about it :p
 
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