How to tell if my partner biased towards his wife?

embracingAFOG

New member
I'm in a 4 month V (FMF) with my male partner and his wife who have been together for over a decade. We are all 4-month-old poly newbies.

I have previously felt that my partner has had a lot of compassion and empathy for his wife and very little towards me, but I don't know if there is any way to tell if I'm imagining it or if it is the reality. For me, I've tried to make sense of it and I feel that he understands her and her intentions from their many years together whereas, being in a very new relationship with me, has not had the opportunity to learn mine. When I have fed this back to him previously, he does not appear to consider his potential bias to be an option and will immediately disagree that it's a possibility.

My partner and his wife have chosen to keep poly a secret from family and friends for now.
About a month ago, on my third meeting with his wife, we decided to do dinner and an escape room that included one of their friends. No long before the dinner, my partner thought we should say that we met ABC club (not real name) and I agreed to this - why not?

During this night, I felt isolated as no one asked me any questions (not even 'How are you?') though I joined in on their conversations as much as possible until it drifted into conversations about their other mutual friends that I did not know. I exchanged very few sentences with my partner and I got a fun story from his wife when I asked her a direct question though did not receive a question in return.
Overall, the escape room went ok apart from a couple of things that bothered me:

1) My partner scoff/laughed at me in front of everyone when I was wrong about something
2) When my partner's wife was struggling with a task, I suggested that we all chip in to help, but he rejected the idea immediately

I spent all of that night awake wondering why I felt so upset about the evening. I'd incorrectly concluded that my partner's lack of interaction with me was because his wife was there and he did not know how to behave, the mocking was embarrassing and shooting down my idea was him choosing to side with his wife.

Regretfully, the next day I sent him paragraphs expressing how upset I was and what I thought the problems were on Whatsapp via text. He was very upset by what I'd said and said he needed time to process what I'd said. We met that evening to discuss it.

During this emotional conversation, I'd said that I don't understand why I felt like this and that I was very confused. As my partner and his wife were moving out of the country in 3 months' time, why don't we just have a good time between him and me - that I don't need to see his wife again. I'd also expressed to him that I felt that his wife was disinterested and cold during the dinner. He had little response or questions and said he had to think about this. The next day, he broke up with me via Whatsapp but when he explained why they were based on statements that he thought I'd made but they were things that he'd interpreted from what I'd said and not what I'd meant at all.

[edit added] Since then we have gotten back together and talked extensively about what happened. I'm now of the opinion that I was upset at the situation where poly was a secret and not at anyone else.

Last week, my partner is pushing me to resolve my conflict with his wife. I did not understand why as from my POV, we were fine. I find out eventually after a long argument that he told his wife that I thought she was cold and disinterested and that I thought that she'd mocked me that night. This was something said in private with him on in an emotional conversation.

As soon as I found out that he'd said this, I said that that isn't how I currently feel, that what I'd said was misinterpreted by him and that I feel ok/neutral when I think about her now. He gave me her number and I messaged her on Whatsapp to see if she wanted a quick lunch or dinner one day.

His wife read my message and I did not hear from her again. A couple of days later, I reach out again and find that she'd blocked me. Upon asking my partner about this, he asks his wife about it, she unblocks me and says "Hello. I'd blocked you. What's up?"

We have back and forth Whatsapp messages (a terrible idea in hindsight) and failed to understand each other. I asked her to disregard what her husband said on my behalf previously and to give the most weight to what I am saying to her directly. I thought that I'd tried to be diplomatic and felt that she spoke defensively, read non-existing negative intentions and was accusing me of various things.
My last message to her read:
"Jane (not real name), our relationship is a two-way street. I was open to having a conversation with you about this but my feeling is that you are not speaking to me with respect. I am choosing not to continue the conversation today as it is hurting my relationship with you."

She messaged afterward but I have not yet responded.

My partner's feedback was that we were both not compassionate but that he sided with her that I never answered her question. I felt that he just had negative feedback for me and was defending his wife throughout including saying things like "Jane was just trying to xyz". I asked him not to speak on her behalf with me but he said that this was just his opinion.
He was also personally offended that I asked her to forget about what he'd said on my behalf as he interpreted this as me calling him a liar. I don't think that he intentionally twisted what I'd said but after his filter some of what he understood to be what I'd said is not what I'd meant at all at the time and especially now after much processing and discussion with him.

I'm interested to learn if you have ever felt like this and any advice would be great.
 
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I don’t understand — I thought he had broken up with you via text? But you are calling him your partner? Why are you still trying to have a relationship with these people? It seems like this situation is done and that you are trying to Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain your way through it when, at the end of the day, these people do not make you feel good and they also don’t seem to care about communicating with you further.

It is hurtful that this is how it ended, but it does seem to be over and now it is time to move on.
 
I don’t understand — I thought he had broken up with you via text? But you are calling him your partner? Why are you still trying to have a relationship with these people? It seems like this situation is done and that you are trying to Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain your way through it when, at the end of the day, these people do not make you feel good and they also don’t seem to care about communicating with you further.

It is hurtful that this is how it ended, but it does seem to be over and now it is time to move on.

Apologies, I'd forgotten to add a key point that we'd gotten back together soon after he broke up with me (I have since edited my post). So currently, we are together, but I'm not sure for much longer.

I do agree somewhat that they do not make me feel good sometimes, but sometimes, I do have great times with my partner. I am also very keen to learn and I know that by having these experiences, I am learning a lot so in this respect, I do feel like I am getting something by carrying on this relationship.
 
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At this point, I would just break up with him. The relationship is too much trouble. It's not supposed to be this much work.

I don't think he's respecting you or feeling empathy for you. He is too quick to assume that you have conflict with his wife, and to exacerbate it through his assumptions. His wife is being unnecessarily rude with her blocking, etc.

Since they're moving away soon anyway, cut your losses and dump him now. Not all poly relationships are so tedious.

You sound thoughtful and caring, and you can meet someone who is more fun and less work.
 
At this point, I would just break up with him. The relationship is too much trouble. It's not supposed to be this much work.

I don't think he's respecting you or feeling empathy for you. He is too quick to assume that you have conflict with his wife, and to exacerbate it through his assumptions. His wife is being unnecessarily rude with her blocking, etc.

Since they're moving away soon anyway, cut your losses and dump him now. Not all poly relationships are so tedious.

You sound thoughtful and caring, and you can meet someone who is more fun and less work.

Thank you for this. I actually realise now that I just needed another person to tell me that perhaps I'm not crazy and to end this relationship as I think that, deep down, after hearing him defend his wife with no empathy for me tonight, I knew that I didn't want this relationship to continue.
 
I agree with Meera. This is too much of a drag and for what? They are moving away so it's a limited time relationship anyway. If the time left if gonna be weird like this? Spare yourself the back and forth weird. Stay broken up and don't bother.

You might all be poly newbies at 4 mos in, but you sound more thoughtful and like you have more social skills/basic relating skills than they do. More even keel in your approach. I hope as you continue to poly date that you find more compatible people who can appreciate you and what you bring to the table.

FWIW, these are the things that stuck out to me. Maybe it helps you vet potentials in future?

When I have fed this back to him previously, he does not appear to consider his potential bias to be an option and will immediately disagree that it's a possibility.

I think you were reasonable. He's had time to learn her and not much time to learn you. So it IS possible he cannot "see" when he favors the wife. If a person cannot own that it could be possible that they might have a blind spot sometimes? Maybe not be worth it to go deeper. IME, it ends up with the person trying to "win" and be "right" all the time. Rather than them wanting to listen for understanding so they can be in "right relationship" with me.

During this night, I felt isolated as no one asked me any questions (not even 'How are you?') though I joined in on their conversations as much as possible until it drifted into conversations about their other mutual friends that I did not know.

That's basic poor manners. Not necessarily poly but poor manners all the same. When there's a new person in the group, the host makes an effort to make them feel welcome/included in the conversation so it isn't like them trying to break into a clicque. Otherwise why invite them? Go out with your clicque only instead.

Maybe in future you don't want to date people who are not "out" as poly. It's almost like they went too far the other way. They didn't want to out themselves as poly? Fair enough. You could all agree to no PDA and being general friendly. But instead they went out to cool/cold and in his case mean. So why invite you?

1) My partner scoff/laughed at me in front of everyone when I was wrong about something

That's mean. You could call him on it on the spot. "Why do you scoff/laugh at me when I try to play and I happen to get it wrong? Do you do this behavior with others?"

It's only an escape room game.

2) When my partner's wife was struggling with a task, I suggested that we all chip in to help, but he rejected the idea immediately

He doesn't sound very nice. Not to you OR to his wife. Maybe that's something you want in a partner. Kindness. One who is collaborative in attitude rather than competitive.

Regretfully, the next day I sent him paragraphs expressing how upset I was and what I thought the problems were on Whatsapp via text. He was very upset by what I'd said and said he needed time to process what I'd said. We met that evening to discuss it.

Don't have serious conversations over apps. Have them in person. Also learn to say "Ok, repeat back what I just said in your own words so I can know you got it how I meant it."

That helps reduce misunderstandings.

Last week, my partner is pushing me to resolve my conflict with his wife. I did not understand why as from my POV, we were fine. I find out eventually after a long argument that he told his wife that I thought she was cold and disinterested and that I thought that she'd mocked me that night. This was something said in private with him on in an emotional conversation.

Why's he so pushy? You did not make the conflict and you feel no upset.

And why does it have to come out through argument with you? He cannot just SAY what happened to you?

Or do you mean he was arguing with his wife, and then used something you said previously to hurt her with? That's not nice sounding.

That is something to establish with a partner. That what you say to them stays between (you + him) and he's not going blab to his wife just because it is his wife. Some couples get really enmeshed and don't know how to keep things to themselves. Maybe if you date a another married person you want to establish that up front -- information management. Not lying, and certainly some info needs to be shared like using safer sex practices. But you are not dating their spouse. They don't need to know EVERYTHING. There must be SOME privacy. Not because you are doing anything wrong but because each person and each dyad needs their own space.

You were upset, you got over it. And because of him blabbing to wife? Now you get new problems that he started. Sheesh.

He gave me her number and I messaged her on Whatsapp to see if she wanted a quick lunch or dinner one day.

He screws up by oversharing data and YOU have to clean up his mess? What's that about? :confused:

To me it would have to be him apologizing to both you and his wife for being a blabbermouth.

We have back and forth Whatsapp messages (a terrible idea in hindsight) and failed to understand each other. I asked her to disregard what her husband said on my behalf previously and to give the most weight to what I am saying to her directly.

That is fair. Each one speaking for their own self so as to reduce miscommunication or misunderstandings.

I thought that I'd tried to be diplomatic and felt that she spoke defensively, read non-existing negative intentions and was accusing me of various things.

That's annoying. But if the only the info she has comes from HIM and he's painting you out as X to the point where she feels best blocking you? Maybe she's on guard for reason. And it's ok to leave it blocked. After all, you had no beef with her and weren't upset any more. So what diff does it makes if she doesn't want to use an app with you?

My last message to her read:
"Jane (not real name), our relationship is a two-way street. I was open to having a conversation with you about this but my feeling is that you are not speaking to me with respect. I am choosing not to continue the conversation today as it is hurting my relationship with you."

That is fair. Take a time out to cool off. Rather than keep going with hot heads and make things worse.

My partner's feedback was that we were both not compassionate but that he sided with her that I never answered her question.

This is dumb. You told her you wanted a time out. She could respect that. She blocked when she got too full. You too can get to full.

Any messages that come in after that? They can stay put until you are ready to deal with it. And that's right. You haven't gotten to it yet. So?

Why's he pot stirring?

Wife could say "Husband, why you blabbing stuff from the other side of the V over here to me? You could apologize to me, your wife for oversharing. And to your other partner for betraying a confidence." Maybe misdirected if she's listening to him telling stories, and it's getting triangulated. But she's not listening directly to you for understanding or for clarification.

For all that he talks about compassion, neither of them seems to listen for understanding.

I asked him not to speak on her behalf with me but he said that this was just his opinion.

Fair enough to request he not speak for her. You are trying to get square with Jane. And nobody asked for his opinion.

He was also personally offended that I asked her to forget about what he'd said on my behalf as he interpreted this as me calling him a liar.

Why get offended that you want to speak for your own self? He's not letting you get ON with squaring things up with Jane, he's making it all be about him.

Is he one of those people who has to the be "star of the show" where all things must revolve around him so he can feel important? Some personalities are like that.

I'm interested to learn if you have ever felt like this and any advice would be great.

I've not ever dated people like this. Even with potential friends? If they get THIS bent out of shape so fast? I don't want to bother. Too much work for too little return. Too high maintenance for me.

I like my relationships respectful and like a two-way street. Not me taking on a "job" or "project" of having to manage other people because they don't know how to manage themselves. Where I would have to do most of the giving and they get most of the receiving/accommodating. That might be great for THEM but what's in it for ME?

If it gets to be too much JADE? (Justify, argue, defend, explain?) Then I'm not interested. There's getting to know new people and then there's dealing with people who are just not my style. I don't want to force things and there's a bare minimum of manners that I want from my relationships. I have a personal standard. If they don't make the cut? They just don't.

This would not make the cut to me. Not worth it. I would bow out.

Could call all of this a learning experience and learn to trust your own self more.

Galagirl
 
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I like my relationships respectful and like a two-way street. Not me taking on a "job" or "project" of having to manage other people because they don't know how to manage themselves. Where I would have to do most of the giving and they get most of the receiving/accommodating. That might be great for THEM but what's in it for ME?

If it gets to be too much JADE? (Justify, argue, defend, explain?) Then I'm not interested. There's getting to know new people and then there's dealing with people who are just not my style. I don't want to force things and there's a bare minimum of manners that I want from my relationships. I have a personal standard. If they don't make the cut? They just don't.

This would not make the cut to me. Not worth it. I would bow out.

Could call all of this a learning experience and learn to trust your own self more.

Galagirl


Thank you this GalaGirl, it's really helped me have a bit more faith in myself and my gut feelings. In the last few months, I've just kept doubting myself over and over again, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking... I've never had major problems reading people's emotions and understanding a situation. Why is it happening now?

He doesn't sound very nice. Not to you OR to his wife. Maybe that's something you want in a partner. Kindness. One who is collaborative in attitude rather than competitive.
This just clicked in my head. I realise now that this is exactly how I've felt repeatedly. I've always felt that he isn't kind and almost wants me to fail. I often don't feel like I'm in a safe space.

Don't have serious conversations over apps. Have them in person. Also learn to say "Ok, repeat back what I just said in your own words so I can know you got it how I meant it."

That helps reduce misunderstandings.
I will log this into my invisible regular phrase book, thank you!

Why's he so pushy? You did not make the conflict and you feel no upset.

And why does it have to come out through argument with you? He cannot just SAY what happened to you?

Or do you mean he was arguing with his wife and then used something you said previously to hurt her with? That's not nice sounding.

That is something to establish with a partner. That what you say to them stays between (you + him) and he's not going blab to his wife just because it is his wife. Some couples get really enmeshed and don't know how to keep things to themselves. Maybe if you date a another married person you want to establish that up front -- information management. Not lying, and certainly some info needs to be shared like using safer sex practices. But you are not dating their spouse. They don't need to know EVERYTHING. There must be SOME privacy.
Despite sharing our private conversation, John is very adamant that he will not tell me anything about Jane and her feelings. He insists that the only way I will ever find out is to speak with her directly when I asked things like, why might Jane feel sour about me.

In poly, is this the right approach? How much should my hinge partner tell me about problems that his wife might have with me?

John feels that he was partly right to share what I said as we'd broken up and he thought Jane should know if she caused me any problems. I'm not sure that I agree with this and minimum, I expected him to tell me that you've said anything to her when we were on speaking terms again.

We argued all day about why I thought what he said was factually incorrect and not how I feel now. It took me a lot of tries for him to eventually say that he told her what I'd said in private. Then I understood the sourness and why he thought that there was anything to 'fix'.

I don't feel that he is apologetic about the oversharing. He isn't a center of attention person as such, but I think he struggles to take on criticism and to admit fault.
 
I've always felt that he isn't kind and almost wants me to fail. I often don't feel like I'm in a safe space.

All the more reason to end it now and let it STAY ended this time. Why date people you don't feel safe around?

Despite sharing our private conversation, John is very adamant that he will not tell me anything about Jane and her feelings. He insists that the only way I will ever find out is to speak with her directly when I asked things like, why might Jane feel sour about me.

In poly, is this the right approach? How much should my hinge partner tell me about problems that his wife might have with me?

You have to work it out with your grouping how information management will be in that grouping. Every group is different because each person in the group has their own preferences.

Me? I don't want to know play-by-play. Tell me newsworthy stuff. I don't care to know about hugs, or kisses or itty bitty details like someone feels sour. People can feel something else tomorrow. This is not junior high. Tell me when someone is a steady partner, looking to go lover, planning an overnight, feeling X for a long time, etc.

If I was Jane? John telling me he broke up? That's news. Telling me you said this or that about me? What for? It's broken up and over, so why bug me telling tales out of school? I figure if you have a problem with me you will tell me direct.

If he needs to process the break up and wants my help? He has to ASK me if I'm up for that. Obtain my consent. Not just whoosh things at me expecting emotional support/labor on demand. Because maybe I'm full and have had a bad day, etc.

John feels that he was partly right to share what I said as we'd broken up and he thought Jane should know if she caused me any problems.

And did he obtain Jane's consent first that she wants to know this data about a broken up relationship? (Because that that point, the data might be irrelevant since it is broken up.)

Is he confusing HIS desire to tell with HER desire to know? That might go back to "wanting to be right" vs "wanting to be in right relationship" with Jane.

Why does it matter so much to him to be "partly right" with you? Why can't he go "I see this bothers you. I messed up. I apologize. What would you prefer I do next time?" and focus more on being in "right relationship" with you now that you are together again on a second chance?

There's stuff I do I think is silly. But I do it anyway because it matters to my spouse. And he matters to me. He always wants the quilt on the bed so the tag is at the bottom and doesn't tickle his face. I offered to cut it off and then it doesn't matter how the quilt goes on our bed. He said no because he likes the tag. Not how I would solve it, but whatever. So I honor his wishes and put the tag on the bottom when it is my turn to make the bed. That's a low key example, but you see what I mean? I value being in "right relationship" with my spouse. It's harmless to indulge him in the tag thing even if I think it is weird. Who likes tags? Well, he does! I'm not going to bother to argue who is "right" about how beds should be made and what value tags have. I do not value tags but I am not him. I value moving things forward. I value being in right relationship with him. So I roll with the tag thing.

When John keeps harping on recent past and that he was partly right? Rather than fixing what was partly wrong? That's not moving anything forward to me in this second chance with you. It's keeping it stuck back there.

I'm not sure that I agree with this and minimum, I expected him to tell me that you've said anything to her when we were on speaking terms again.

Did you voice that expectation ahead of time?


We argued all day
about why I thought what he said was factually incorrect and not how I feel now.

You know that's a waste of time, right?

It took me a lot of tries for him to eventually say that he told her what I'd said in private. Then I understood the sourness and why he thought that there was anything to 'fix'.

Sounds like he's too proud to go "I think I made a mistake. We were broken up. So I told her some things you said because I thought it would not matter to you and I needed to process. So wife is sour on you. Then we're back together and now there's potential problems because she's still sour" instead of an all day argument where you have to "fish it out of him?"

That's just too much work.

Plus, WHO has to fix it? Cuz you didn't make the mess.

I don't feel that he is apologetic about the oversharing. He isn't a center of attention person as such, but I think he struggles to take on criticism and to admit fault.

I respectfully disagree. If you spent ALL DAY arguing with him, then he certainly was the center of your attention all day long.

Whether positive or negative attention? It's attention.

I do think you are right -- he doesn't take feedback well. Possibly because he wants to be "right" all the time.

Just reading it is a drag. I can only imagine how draining this relationship might be for you. Sure there might be some bright spots... but overall sounds like more trouble than it it worth and you don't feel safe there to boot. So why keep going only to break up later when they move? Could spare yourself the extra grief.

Galagirl
 
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In general, a four month newbie couple will favor each other over "outside" partners. This couple has zero experience and it sounds like you are his (and it's his, not theirs) first partner outside the marriage.

Personally, I don't care what a meta thinks of me. A hinge should keep that to themself, unless it changes our dynamic. Then I would have to decide if it's okay for them to change our dynamic.

Sorry this isn't working out for you. It's really not the way poly is meant to be.
 
Hello embracingAFOG,

As far as I can tell, John and Jane have both been unkind toward you. But John has been the worse of the two. I know you said John has some good points, and if you really want to keep seeing him, that is okay. But I don't think it's what I'd do. It's like ref2018 said. Treat yourself good. There are other partners out there who will be much nicer to you.

I'm sorry you had to go through this.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Embracing, it seemed as if you were ready to cut the cord attaching yourself to this guy. It's REALLY not going to get any better, and they are leaving.

The only person who is going to advocate for you is you.
 
Embracing, it seemed as if you were ready to cut the cord attaching yourself to this guy. It's REALLY not going to get any better, and they are leaving.

The only person who is going to advocate for you is you.
Yes, I agree with you, I don't think that it would get better and I should stick up for myself.
I've also just learnt about emotional inavailability and attunement. It's been incredibly eye opening and explains how I've been feeling during and after each argument.
 
Never make someone a priority who treats you as an option.
 
I disagree. The saying is very appropriate to polyamory.. In my world all my partners get equal footing in my life.

I have never treated Murf or any man I have dated as second fiddle to Butch. Butch's wants needs or drama has never influced how another partner was treated in my life. I have never used a partner to spice up my marriage or as hobby aka something to fill avoid.

Your statement Vinsanity has a very couple centric tone to it.
 
I disagree. The saying is very appropriate to polyamory.. In my world all my partners get equal footing in my life.

I have never treated Murf or any man I have dated as second fiddle to Butch. Butch's wants needs or drama has never influced how another partner was treated in my life. I have never used a partner to spice up my marriage or as hobby aka something to fill avoid.

Your statement Vinsanity has a very couple centric tone to it.

But that's what I mean. You don't prioritize one over the other. To make someone a priority means you put them before everyone else. Not prioritizing one relationship over the other is the opposite of being couple centric.

When I first told Elle I wanted to date her she said she couldn't be in a relationship if she wasn't a priority. I told her it didn't work that way. Nobody is a priority, everybody is equal. Being mono she didn't quite get that.
 
Someone/thing can be A priority without being THE priority. My partners? Priority. Kid? Priority. Work? Priority. Drinking with friends? Option. Shopping just for fun? Option.
 
Someone/thing can be A priority without being THE priority. My partners? Priority. Kid? Priority. Work? Priority. Drinking with friends? Option. Shopping just for fun? Option.

Very much this. Sometimes things conflict and you have to choose. Any partner will be A priority... but that doesn't always mean they will come first. Life is about juggling sometimes.
 
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