Privacy

I think the email thing is because I don't have it written in my email address that someone else reads my emails. So while I could tell my friends or family about someone else having access to my email, I couldn't tell strangers or people who contact me for the first time.
Even when I have asked someone to check my email for me, I asked them to tell me the sender and subject line, not to open them until I said I was fine.

It's like being recorded and listened to by someone permanently. You might start a conversation with someone who doesn't know. Unless you carry a sign that says so, you might not realise someone is going to say something very private until after they have done it, and oops, someone else heard it all.
I believe it's actually illegal in France to record someone without their permission. I think it's not even accepted as valid evidence in trials, so the common movie plot of someone hiding a recorder to trick the killer wouldn't work.

So yeah, anything second hand like that would be bad, because it's somebody else's privacy, and unless expressly told I can share a specific thing, I assume I can't share stuff (which is why I ask people if I plan to). I might share something anonymously ("this happened to someone") but never specifically.
 
So this seems to be the hot debate on several threads lately. Karma and I had a long talk about it the other night as well.

Can someone explain why privacy is such a huge issue? I'm an open book. I have nothing to hide. I have no issue with Karma reading my e-mail or messages, nor do I have issue with people doing a backround check on me. I also don't care if Karma discusses me with other partners, as long as he fills me in on what was said.

I feel like I have nothing to hide so why should it be an issue?

Random person reading my mail-okay that's an issue. But not those I love and care about.

I am hoping someone can explain it to me. I feel that if someone has an issue with privacy then they have something to hide.

May not be the case, but I have no experience outside of that...which is why I am asking. I want to understand the otherside of it.

Yeah, this is exactly how I feel. I don't lock my phone at home so my wife can go into it anytime she wants. I don't not lock it for that reason, and it isn't because she requests that I do this either. I just don't have anything to hide from her so why would I care if she picks up my phone and starts reading texts, not that she does, but she could. She also knows the passwords to all my online accounts, from web sites to email.

I talk to her about everything so what difference does it make if she reads it for herself. If she decides to go poking around and gets more detail than she wanted, well, that's her problem I figure. I don't lie to her, I don't purposely withhold information, and I don't conduct myself in a manner that I would be reluctant to discuss with anyone. Granted, I wouldn't leave my email or phone open at work, but that's another unrelated issue to me.

I'd really rather spare the preliminary announcements and get into the discussion anyhow. LOL! ...Hmmm.. Maybe I should look into creating an app and/or program that forwards all my electronic correspondence to a common area. "Sorry! It totally slipped my mind! Have you been keeping up on the 'common' files? It's all in there." Heh. :D

Phoenix
 
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This reminds me of one time when there was this Asian Water Festival, and my husband was helping at it, and near the end it started pouring rain (yes, rain at the water-festival, how convenient). He ran to our truck where I was waiting and put the contents of his pockets in the driver's seat. I got bored while waiting for them to pack up the equipment, and started cleaning the truck... then I started on his wallet... which was pretty wet and full of junk. I organized his wallet (keeping any receipts and whatnot that I wasn't sure if it was important or not) and when he came back I said "Look what I did!" He said "You went through my wallet?!" and I said, "Yes, there was nothing in it except your cards and lots of soggy receipts, and a few dollars. Of course I "went through" your wallet. You're welcome." And he said "Yeah that's true. Thanks."
 
Privacy is the equivalent of nudity to a lot of people. The idea of wearing clothes vs walking around naked. The comparison won't help you understand if you also prefer walking around naked though :p

Just like to point out that Mo is, in fact, the type to waltz around the house nude without a care in the world :p
 
Hubs needs his privacy, which I was always respectful of-- until the whole dishonesty, trust violations, lying thing came into the picture. And then that privacy became an issue to me because by respecting his privacy I allowed the space for him to lie to me.
I understand these kinds of feelings well, they are not unreasonable. But isn't it true that even if you do everything in your power, there will still be some space left for lies, if lying is what your partner wishes to do? :/
 
I understand these kinds of feelings well, they are not unreasonable. But isn't it true that even if you do everything in your power, there will still be some space left for lies, if lying is what your partner wishes to do? :/

Yes. :) If someone is going to choose to lie to you there really is nothing you can do about it. It's not under your control. When I was younger I didn't fully understand this. I truly believed that since I was completely open and honest and because I didn't see a "reason" for someone to lie since our agreement in our relationship was pretty basic, that I thought they wouldn't. Like by creating an environment where the NEED wasn't there it wouldn't happen. LOL, ah youth.

Truth is I found that people have their own reasons for everything and they are not mine. I have more respect for that now than I did then. Like reading this thread about privacy-- everyone has different needs and views on it. I suppose really it only matters that you and whomever you're with agree on what that is between the two (or more) of you. And like everything else, sometimes someone or everyone isn't going to have it exactly the way they want it and may have to compromise a little.
 
I feel the same way I have nothing to hide. My partner knows all my passwords to everything, phone, computer, everything. I don't mind her looking at whatever she wants....Just cause she can doesnt mean she does. Maybe by her knowing that she can, it makes her feel there is no reason too. I would like to think that she doesnt check on me, because she trust me.

I suppose for some people its tempting, like reading your sisters diary or something...

Here is my question, for the people that do check thier "others" e-mails and stuff...why do you feel the need to do that? Do you not trust them? I know if I am looking at someones private things its for one of two reasons, I came across it got curious and started to read, found it interesting or exciting....like reading someones diary, or I am trying to find something out and see if I can trust them.

If my partner came home and said just so you know I checked your e-mail today. I think I would get defensive and ask why? I would also hope that by finding nothing she felt kinda dumb for looking in the first place.
 
Here is my question, for the people that do check thier "others" e-mails and stuff...why do you feel the need to do that? Do you not trust them? I know if I am looking at someones private things its for one of two reasons, I came across it got curious and started to read, found it interesting or exciting....like reading someones diary, or I am trying to find something out and see if I can trust them..

I think the only people here that have checked their partners email were all, at the time, being lied to and cheated on. (I could be wrong, but I don't remember anybody else saying they DID check, just that they had the info and could.)

I can only speak for myself. I did it once, and one time only, because I knew he was lying to me. It wasn't cheating, since we've always been nonmonogamous, but I've always made it clear that lying isn't acceptable to me.

It wasn't an easy time, and I felt like crap because I felt invading his privacy was wrong as well. But I had to know for sure because I "knew", but had no facts and it was driving me crazy. I figured if the information was out we'd either deal with it or break up and at that point either one was fine with me because I had lost trust and about lost my mind.

Two good things did come out of it, though. He realized that it was just easier to be honest because if I couldn't handle the honesty then we shouldn't be together anyway. And he figured out that I could always tell if he was being either dishonest, or hiding something. I just know. Once he realized that he didn't try anymore, and that opened us up in a new direction we never would have gone. And I have never done it since, nor would I again. It took a LOT for me to break that boundary the first time...

I would never read somebody's personal stuff just because I was curious, or thought it was interesting. I kind of equate it to being in a business partnership where your partner is embezzling from you. Do you just leave the partnership because of the embezzling with no proof? Do you investigate to find proof so that you can either leave the business relationship knowing the truth or deal with it? Does the embezzling person feel like you are horrible for not trusting them and searching their things? Does it make a difference if you were wrong?
 
I've had it invaded and used against me. Even where it wasn't something I felt was inappropriate. Even when it was wildly misconstrued. I've had open book situations both where a partner did look and, in my current relationship, my partner has the ability but doesn't look.

I've snooped and I've had info unintentionally shared before they wished to share it.

What I've found in all these instances is everyone I've known who super closely guarded their privacy, did so because they could not be completely above board. I'm not even going into an outright wish to hide dishonest dealings or a need to protect sensitive client info in what I'm talking about.
It was that they either wanted it for the possibility of doing something they knew others would be hurt by. Like a security blanket hiding a bunch of what if situations that may or may not ever come to pass. Or because when they did share private info, they wanted to be able to color what was going on to show them in the best possible light. I think this is where the control aspect comes in. We like to control the impression we make. The ego desires to present ourselves in the way we wish others to think of us and this isn't always who we really are.

The thing I've found about snooping is it only leads to pain for the snooper. All you find is what you'll find in anyone even yourself. We struggle to show the dark corners of who we are; they are dark because WE don't accept them any more than we know others will but it is an undeniable part of who we are. The power struggle between wanting to know all parts of our partners and letting them have the power to come to it in their own comfort and time.
 
I find it really interesting to read what journalists write when scandals like Weiner, Strauss-Kahn, or Tiger Woods are happening and what the public perception seems to be. Each sex scandal reminds me why people keep their sexuality closeted. Sexual disclosure makes people vulnerable in a way that is easy to exploit by others. Even if people just find out you like having sex missionary style with your wife within a monogamous committed relationships on saturday night after 10pm behind closed doors with the lights off, they will make little comments to let you know that they know what you do, e.g. "so how's the missionary work going?" It is ridiculous. It's like there's a general promise of harassment to anyone who doesn't keep secrets and maintain privacy.
 
I find it really interesting to read what journalists write when scandals like Weiner, Strauss-Kahn, or Tiger Woods are happening and what the public perception seems to be. Each sex scandal reminds me why people keep their sexuality closeted. Sexual disclosure makes people vulnerable in a way that is easy to exploit by others. Even if people just find out you like having sex missionary style with your wife within a monogamous committed relationships on saturday night after 10pm behind closed doors with the lights off, they will make little comments to let you know that they know what you do, e.g. "so how's the missionary work going?" It is ridiculous. It's like there's a general promise of harassment to anyone who doesn't keep secrets and maintain privacy.

I think the attacks come more against those that tried to keep it a secret then against those out in the open. Which again just adds to my confusion.

No it's not really anyones business who anyone is doing or how, but if you hide it like a dirty secret, it's gonna come out like a dirty secret.
 
I think the Strauss-Khan one is more about the accusation of non-consenting. He's notorious for having sex with women who aren't his wife and it's never been a scandal before.
 
For me privacy is huge; I'm the oldest of 6. From the time I was 4 until I was 12 I shared a room with two of my brothers. After that I shared a room with one of my sisters until I left for college. My siblings never respected my stuff; my brother would read my diary; my sister opened and then destroyed all my collectible dolls. At college, my roommate told the RA that she'd walked in on Runic Wolf and I having sex when we were both dressed sitting on the floor watching American Beauty when she came home.... I am an open person BUT if you want to know, you have to ask. If I share my private thoughts with a friend to help me sort through them, to give me a new perspective via e-mail; I don't want anyone else to read that conversation. That doesn't mean I'm hiding it or being secretive; I will share my thoughts and feelings when I have it all sorted out. I'll even tell you that I talked it out with so and so to make sure that I'm not crazy. I don't know if that helps you any Mo, but for me being open doesn't mean I stop being autonomous and to me marriage (especially closed marriage) doesn't take away one's autonomy. As I see it, two becoming one doesn't mean losing yourself, your right to private thoughts, time for self reflection, etc. It means that you lean on each other and give each other strength. Honesty and integrity are important to that, but your whole self, thoughts, ideas, right to privacy aren't lost in that agreement; though a friend of mine seems to see his wife as his property (as in his opinion women are not to be trusted to make their own decisions).
 
It has nothing to do with having anything to hide. It has everything to do with violation of others and respect for individual choice.

I totally agree with this.

I think some people are simply pathological in their need to share in every aspect of their partner's relationship and activities. They can't handle anyone having something they are not a part of. It's indicative of envy as defined by "painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage". http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/envy
 
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Runic Wolf, Wendigo, and I have one friend who we all used to hold in high enough esteem to share private thoughts with, until we discovered that when he is drunk all his (and everyone else's) secrets come out. He tells things about his sex life that I know his wife would be embarrassed with people knowing as well; and the thing is he has memory blanks while drinking, so he completely forgets telling everyone his and their secrets and does it over and over again..... part of the privacy thing for me is respecting the other person's right to not have their business shared with everyone and anyone even accidentally.
 
I think the Strauss-Khan one is more about the accusation of non-consenting. He's notorious for having sex with women who aren't his wife and it's never been a scandal before.
I suppose you're right, and with Tiger Woods and Schwartzeneger, they were keeping it a secret from their wives.

I think the attacks come more against those that tried to keep it a secret then against those out in the open. Which again just adds to my confusion.

No it's not really anyones business who anyone is doing or how, but if you hide it like a dirty secret, it's gonna come out like a dirty secret.
I think you underestimate the expectation that people were keep their dirty laundry hidden. Especially with respected public figures, there's a discomfort that people have with their sexuality generally, i.e. the very fact that they have sexuality. A university professor of mine even once told me that a student reacted with surprise when he said he was married. She said she couldn't picture him being married. Many people just can't handle the idea that authority figures they respect are human. Maybe it undermines their sense that they're safely be protected by perfect beings in control of everything.
 
I think it's interesting how many posters talk about privacy (or breach of) in relation to snooping or having something to hide. If that is the only part of privacy/sharing, I can certainly understand the confusion around why some people need it more than others.

I think the need for privacy is culturally influenced, as evidenced by the way many posters spoke of how their childhoods or past experiences affect their behaviour now. I think it is also a matter of temperament, and for those who have little need, it is difficult to imagine life another way. I find this is also the case for introverts such as myself, who usually need significant amounts of rest after heavy social engagements: extroverts don't need it, and are often puzzled by the need.

I have a high need for privacy, and sometimes I have had difficulty expressing this with a partner who doen't. I'm happy enough for him to know all my passwords, check my phone messages or email for me to see who's trying to contact me, etc. But I learned not to tell him things like my bank account balance, because I didn't want him to pass that kind of information along to anyone else in passing conversation. I guess that IS something to hide, but not because I'm guilty.... it keeps me safe! But for him, that wasn't something that was private, and didn't see it as breaching my rights: he didn't even think about it until I noticed later, and wouldn't think anything of it if I shared HIS information...
 
I believe the biggest issue is not necessarily my privacy

So long as the person going through my e-mails or listening to my phones messages is a person that I trust to tell me they do it, and I trust them, the only concern is respect for other peoples privacy.

If I am corresponding with a person whom I divulge details of my life that I consider private, I would be upset if the person did not tell me (without my having to ask!)

"just so you know, both my boyfriends has access to me e-mail because we hide nothing from each other, I don't think they read every message I send or receive, but just so you know before you decide to to divulge details such as you did in such and such e-mail"

in which case I would want to know if they are the type of person that shares my views on the definition of ethics.

having no secrets with those you are intimate with I completely understand as I believe you cannot be "close" to another person whom you have to keep secrets from. As that is the only way that I believe THE most intimacy can exist between people (is to share all of their life with those they are close to) But my ethics are such that I would need to inform a person that was sharing private details that I share my password with other people. I might not be able to tell them who, in which case I would just say "I am pretty sure my so and so still occasionally reads my mail, just a heads up, while I trust them and know it would never be spoken about even anonymously, I wouldn't feel right telling you of that fact after the info you wrote me with in your last e-mail."

A pet peeve of mine is when members of a person's "chosen" family reply to me without identifying themselves as not the person whom I began corresponding with at this e-mail address. As an FYI, I consider it false impersonation to reply without a name or signature, as I give people the benefit of the doubt that they are honest, so I do not appreciate it when words read with a different voice when I am expecting so and so, it pisses me off when such and such person replies without writing, "by the way, this is such and such, not so and so."

another thing that I consider inconsiderate is posting on the web with grossly inaccurate time stamps. It doesn't bother me unless the info is presented in deceptive or manipulative ways. I love people who have a healthy sense of humor, but when you never inform the other party that the tone was joking as apposed to serious in nature, that's not humor, that is being a manipulative, controlling asshole whom I have little to no respect for.
 
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For me, in some ways it most definitaly comes from past trust issues.

I did check calls when I was suspicious of the affairs and for a period after I found out. But anymore I really don't care and I trust him more.

I have an overall lack of trust in people until I get to know them. I've seen too many people hurt and been hurt to much myself to just jump into something without knowing who I am jumping into it with.

I can agree with a few if your points, yes people should always be careful when meeting someone and getting to know them, however part of being human is to learn to trust others. I believe it takes years to really know someone. At one month one knows X amount about that person. At 3 months you know much more, but still only X amount, at 6 months, and then at a year, then 2, 3 and so on. Yes, don't just jump into something, but part of falling in love is the fear of falling in love itself.
Maybe I am taking this completely the wrong way, but this curiosity thing seems much more "personal based" then anything to do with curiosity and wanting to see the whole conversation. Arguments can be a good thing...

Sending my love and support your way.
 
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