Which way to turn?

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, but isn't cheating lying? I have always considered them to be the same thing...
 
Lying isn't necessarily cheating in terms of "having an affair".
Lying is telling an untruth or falsehood...
Cheating is to violate a rule....

So you could violate a rule without lying and you could lie without violating a rule.

BUT-yes in general I think that generally speaking if you are having an affair you are probably doing both.
 
Lying isn't necessarily cheating in terms of "having an affair".
Lying is telling an untruth or falsehood...
Cheating is to violate a rule....

So you could violate a rule without lying and you could lie without violating a rule.

BUT-yes in general I think that generally speaking if you are having an affair you are probably doing both.

Thats, I was just simplifying. I know its rare, but I do have it in me sometimes :p
 
Yeah, I think cheating is lying because to me that form of ommission is lying. But I was referring to the fact that this whole situation has been one lie after another to cover his ass b/c he was so afraid I would leave. I almost divorced him 3yrs ago, he says he was covering up b/c he was so afraid I'd really do it this time. I gave him a freeby night, come clean about everything and I won't yell, won't leave you, we'll figure it all out. And he still lied. over and over and over. That is what I can't get over. Everytime he said I had the whole storey and the next day I'd find out something else.


LR- I think you are right, the world isn't set up for people to be truthful, and that just plain out sucks. I truly do want honesty. Had he been honest from the begining last july when all this started (for this round) maybe something could have been worked out to save all this pain. Not saying that honesty doesn't bring pain. It is hard to hear what you aren't prepared to hear, but honesty does make it a bit easier. Knowing that they respect you enough to be honest with you, means so much.

It's going to be a long road with some overgrown paths, probably even a few cliffs and mountains along the way, but we'll get through it. And we'll be stronger and better because of it.
 
I hear you Mohegan. I swear-you might find a friend in Maca (my husband).

He did that with me several times, "I just want it all out on the table, the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, then we'll sort it out from there."

I just COULDN'T do it. I was unable to process in my heart/mind that telling him something true-that I couldn't explain, but knew would hurt him AND would be taken wrong (he would assume it was because I didn't love him enough or that I loved someone else or more or that he wasn't good enough in bed etc) and would further damage his self-esteem...... could be a good action.

I felt like telling him the truth was dropping my guilt onto his shoulders to bare, unfairly. SO I didn't tell.

I had a lot to share-but I just couldn't do it.
Because THE WHOLE TRUTH was so complicated I didn't have words for it.
I could have said, "I had an affair". But I couldn't explain the depth of why.
I could have said, " I love you both" but I couldn't explain the depth of why.
I could have said, " I can't stop it's killing me"-and I did, but I couldn't explain why.

So telling him just seemed like a pointless game of "how badly can I hurt you before you leave".
Seemed like it would have been better to just do the best I could until I knew how.

Shitty. I know.
I still feel guilty.
I still cry myself to sleep sometimes.
There are times I don't spend with GG when I'm scheduled to, because the guilt gets to me all over again-and GG has the same issue.

It sucks.

Most people say I should have just left.
But that was obviously not right as well.

Ah joy...
 
Cheating is near impossible to get over. It can be done. It can be forgiven, in time, lots of time, but it won't be forgotten. Because if it ever happens again, then that first time will be dredged up. It will remind you that you already forgave.
I found out about all of them at once for me. I kind of always knew about L. She was the threesome we had where she stalked my husband and he slept with her later on. She was constantly calling and texting him. When I would pick up the phone she got very hostile. He knew I didn't like her yet he never ignored her or told her to go away. I finally did that. L was his brother's roommate. It was just too easy to go "visit his brother". But I would always ask and he would always deny. I had no proof. Nothing to go on except my gut feeling. So I kept letting it go.
When he finally admitted it burned through and through. It burned deeper than J. Even though I had become friends with J and had broken promises and words from her as well. The fact that he slept with someone as evil as L, and yes she is evil and I hate girls like that especially when they get what they want. She is a slutty drug addict that if I ever face again I might knock her head off and I know I could take her.:D
Mohegan - You have worded why you are trying to forgive and work things out wonderfully. Those are all the things I have felt as I try to move past the cheating. It isn't so much him sleeping with someone else or the cheating. That part does hurt, don't get me wrong. But the lying takes away so much from the marriage. The lying strips away all belief, trust and communication and is so hard to get back.
I love DH so incredibly much. But he knows I do not trust him anymore. There have been too many lies. Even after I found out about J. He has attempted to lie again. But I watch him so closely now that he is caught very quickly and last time I almost walked out. I told him he might as well keep his date with J because I wouldn't be home. It had nothing to do with J this time. Why punish her? She has not lied to me since. At least that I am aware of. And I trust that she hasn't.
DH I watch so much closer because for some reason he finds it harder to be honest with me. When I almost walked out he came after me. He wouldn't leave my side all night. I have to admit I sat around and did the most boring stuff to see if I could bore him enough with my night. Wanted to see how serious he was. And he never budged. Just smiled and spoiled me rotten. He has been open more since then. I have questioned him even more. That is just how it goes. I love him, plain and simple. And as long as we are committed then we can work through this.
I hope you feel the same in your marriage. It is so hard and takes so much work. Many people will say it can't work. Cheating into polyamory. But it takes change for all parties involved. It takes communication not just with the husband and wife but with the wife and gf (husband and bf, or whatever the combination). I hope in time you will be able to talk to her. You might be surprised when you hear her answers to the questions you have for her.
You want to hate her and call her a whore and a husband stealing bitch. That isn't always the case. J is not that case. I wanted so much to hate her in the beginning. But DH wouldn't let me. He did everything in his power so I wouldn't. And I am glad. And now I don't. She is a very dear friend.
I still have a hard time with them being together. He is my husbband after all. But if this has to then I am glad it is with someone I care about as well.
 
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Thank you

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has responded. My husband is going to read this tonight. I asked him to. I'm hoping it will give a basis for some more communication.

I originaly joined here to find a community in which I could share my triad relationship. Find tips for when we struggled, meet others etc. And now I feel in a matter of days it has completely shifted. I told him tonight that I feel like the whole triad idea has gone to hell. I don't know that I can ever want a relationship with her now. Maybe one day, but I'm not sure. I love him and he loves her, so I support that. It's going to be hard to figure out, but I support it.

It's weird because I don't think of her as a slut or a homewrecker or anything like that. I have always felt that no one can steal another person. They have to be willing to go. In some ways that has helped things. Because he wasn't willing to go. He's still here. I'm still here.


On a plus side. Part of what I asked from his was for him to make an effort to make plans together. For him to make a date for us, for him to show me he gave a damn about spending time with me. So last night he asked me what I wanted to do today. I needed to get a dress for the wedding I am officiating at the end of the month so asked if we could go shopping, get groceries and I needed to work in some physical activity so could we walk around the mall? He HATES to shop, but he went, no complaints the whole day. It was so nice to spend the day together. No fighting no grumpiness. It was actually a really nice day together.
 
Maybe he is a serial cheater. But I think it is more that to him sex is sex and love is love and they do not need to meet. We have been discussing a poly lifestyle for yrs. But it seems like everytime I get to a point of trusting him and being okay with it, I find out he cheated.

Wait now.... If he is able to separate sex from love then I would be reticent to suggest continuing to find a poly relationship. Poly people, for the most part, and as far as I have seen, seem to mix the two. Otherwise they are swingers no? Perhaps some swinging is in order? You could go along and watch him enjoy himself and get his needs met and not have to have another woman in his life at all.

I have a friend who has a boyfriend like that. He likes to have sex with women, but doesn't seem all that interested in having any kind of loving relationship of substance with them. My friend has a primary common law husband that she lives with and has a life with also. It seems to work for them as her husband has a disability and is not very social. She loves being at home with him... but she calls on her social boyfriend to do things out in the community, such as SM events etc. He gets some personal closeness with her and sex too, and loves her, but he is free to go to swingers parties... and have casual sex with pretty much whomever he takes a fancy too.

Perhaps your hubby would suit an arrangement similar to this in the way that you would make it your own.
 
Wait now.... If he is able to separate sex from love then I would be reticent to suggest continuing to find a poly relationship.

Perhaps your hubby would suit an arrangement similar to this in the way that you would make it your own.

If it weren't that he fell in love with his g/f I'd agree that maybe we could give that idea a try. That is another thing that is bothering me. He says he can have sex without emotions getting involved, yet somehow he fell for her.
 
If it weren't that he fell in love with his g/f I'd agree that maybe we could give that idea a try. That is another thing that is bothering me. He says he can have sex without emotions getting involved, yet somehow he fell for her.

Mohegan, yes I have heard that from DH as well! But obviously not all sex is just casual. He found his exception where it lead to love and now we are left handling the emotions that go with it. Trying to be behappy and accepting them for who they are. I love DH but how did he not see this coming!
 
Even in swinging - people can fall in love. My husband didn't go looking for a girlfriend and he definitely didn't plan on falling in love. Him and MG are co-workers who joked around alot. My husband has always been a flirt - she flirted back. Since we had been swinging for about 2 years off and on (always together, never seperate) - he asked if he could have sex with her. After a lot of discussions, crying, talking i gave the ok. Took it back. Gave it again....because I was worried since I wouldn't be involved. They both thought it would only happen once or twice. 2 months later - they fell in love. Again - he wasn't looking. It was just sex to him. It turned into more and my biggest fear came true. But he didn't lie or cheat. He respected me enough to be honest and to ask me if it was ok.

Mohegan - I feel the same way about my husband that you feel about yours - so I do completely appreciate you wanting to stay and work this out. My only concern for you would be the cheating and the loss of trust. You guys need to work through that. I know some people will disagree with me but - if you haven't done so - I suggest finding a relationship therapist, preferrably one with knowledge and experience with polyamory, for you and your husband to go to together and seperately. We have one and she is fantastic! My husbands gf has also gone to our therapist and the three of us have gone together. It really has helped. You need to be able to trust him again and he needs to learn honesty and self control.

Keep reading, researching and learning. The people on here have been through a lot of different situations and experiences. You will find comfort and solace in their words of advice. Of course you will also find people who tell it like it is and you might not like it. Don't dis-count them - seriously consider what they are saying. Somethings will hurt - but you might just find that they are right. :rolleyes:

Best of luck - Kat
 
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Even in swinging - people can fall in love. My husband didn't go looking for a girlfriend and he definitely didn't plan on falling in love. Him and MG are co-workers who joked around alot.

Tis true. :)...it happened to me. However swinging does have a sense of disconnect. My wife and I have been playing for years, just happens to be this last one we both fell in love with. Unfortunately it will not be returned

So it is a "safer" bet to go swinging, and more honest, than serial cheating (where btw you can also fall in love)...at least then it is open and honest and he still gets his sex :)
 
Tis true. :)...it happened to me. However swinging does have a sense of disconnect. My wife and I have been playing for years, just happens to be this last one we both fell in love with. Unfortunately it will not be returned

So it is a "safer" bet to go swinging, and more honest, than serial cheating (where btw you can also fall in love)...at least then it is open and honest and he still gets his sex :)

Ari - I agree with you in that in a sense it is safer. My husband and I fooled around with a few people during a meet and greet - but we were there enjoying watching each other. The first full swap we had a few months later, was with a husband/wife that we fooled around with at the M/G. This felt safe because we were all happily married and just looking for fun. We were also together in the same room. That was a rule we had when we started swinging.

Taking the swinging concept a little further, 2rings asked me if he could have sex with MG. I ignored my fears - and so we are, where we are. Would this have happened if we weren't swingers? Possibly. But I know with total certainty that he wouldn't have cheated - he would have still asked me first.

I am trying to accept MG into our lives - because of his honesty. If he would have cheated, then wanted to keep her as a girlfriend - I don't know if I would feel the same.

Kat
 
I've begun refering to this as my safe blog. No one who is going to continue the drama in my life is going to see it. Kind of nice.

I'm pretty sure that due to all the stress and pushing school aside, I'm failing this semester. Trying to decide if going into class tonight is even worth it or if should just use the summer to concentrate on figuring my marriage out.

We had talked off and on about swinging and we both had some reservations about it.

My husband has asked over and over why I don't jump at the chance to sleep with other people. I don't know how to answer that. I've been tempted, but only a time or two, and I've never gone anywhere with it. I just shut all that off. I'm supposed to be committed to one person my entire life. That's how I was raised, so that's how it should be. Bringing a g/f or even just someone for the night, into our relationship is ok to me b/c we are both there and are sharing the experience. I don't honestly think that deep down I have a problem with him having a girlfriend, but I feel like I'm doing something wrong by saying it is okay.

I guess I need to differenciate between how I was raised and what I actually find to be right and wrong.
 
Hi M,
He needs to work on rebuilding trust with you that has nothing to do with outside relationships. You have to know you can trust what he's telling you with the simple things or you're never going to know for sure in your heart that he's telling you the truth about the more difficult stuff. Some people just find it easier to lie and to tell people what they want to hear. Sounds to me like he needs to untrain himself from doing that.

Don't agree to anything that you're not 100% comfortable with right now. It's just going to lead to a lot of heartache. Start slow with things that you know you are comfortable with and work on talking everything through. Set aside some time every day to talk about how you're feeling and give each other turns, without judgement, to honestly express how you feel. There are going to be good days and bad days but ALL feelings have to be heard and validated. Boundaries are going to change, it's just going to take time and trust. Good luck.

-Derby
 
Mo,
I have a question for you. I know that it varies between situations. But considering that your husband now has a girlfriend and you two are working toward the poly life what has been the feelings toward you having boyfriend. How does he feel about that. How do you feel about that? Are you open to relationships outside your marriage? Does he feel like he could handle it if you were to do this or does it even matter because it is not an issue with you.

I know with my husband while he is living poly and I am living mono he has expressed great jealousy and uncertainty if I were to find someone else. I sometimes feel a little unfair about that but I am not going to push it right now while it isn't an issue for me. I am not interested in anyone nor am I interested in finding someone. I am still working through my trust problems with one man. I am personally not ready to even think about trying to hold up a relationship with another person. But I know it is a subject that would be hard to have with DH right now because of all the lying he did. He is scared at the moment I would leave him completely if I tried the poly life before we had a chance to rebuild my trust in him.

So basically I am wondering where you and your DH stand with this or if you have even had this discussion?
 
Don't agree to anything that you're not 100% comfortable with right now. It's just going to lead to a lot of heartache. Start slow with things that you know you are comfortable with and work on talking everything through. Set aside some time every day to talk about how you're feeling and give each other turns, without judgement, to honestly express how you feel. There are going to be good days and bad days but ALL feelings have to be heard and validated. Boundaries are going to change, it's just going to take time and trust. Good luck.

-Derby

Thanks for that, I think we are going to use suggestion to talk about how we are feeling everyday. After reading that I was thinking about the fact that we rarely have that talk about good days.

Mo,
I have a question for you. I know that it varies between situations. But considering that your husband now has a girlfriend and you two are working toward the poly life what has been the feelings toward you having boyfriend. How does he feel about that. How do you feel about that? Are you open to relationships outside your marriage? Does he feel like he could handle it if you were to do this or does it even matter because it is not an issue with you.

So basically I am wondering where you and your DH stand with this or if you have even had this discussion?

Originaly our talks were more towards bringing in a g/f for both of us. He has always encouraged me to think outside of our marriage but mostly our talks have been about just sex, not an actual relationship. So I'm not sure what his opinion of me having b/f would be. I don't know for sure if I am interested or not. I'm still trying to figure out what I am okay with and what I am holding onto from how I was raised. It's really murky water and hard to figure out. I definitaly think it is something we need to talk about more. I don't know if I am so much against a relationship outside of my mariage, as I just don't see that I would ever find someone who fits me the way he does. There was one woman who we both had feelings for and she did for us, but she's married and they have a lot of problems in their marriage, mostly due to him being in the military and never being home. So I guess I do know it's possible, just maybe not with another man? I'm just a big ball of confusion at the moment.
 
Originaly our talks were more towards bringing in a g/f for both of us. He has always encouraged me to think outside of our marriage but mostly our talks have been about just sex, not an actual relationship. So I'm not sure what his opinion of me having b/f would be. I don't know for sure if I am interested or not. I'm still trying to figure out what I am okay with and what I am holding onto from how I was raised. It's really murky water and hard to figure out. I definitaly think it is something we need to talk about more. I don't know if I am so much against a relationship outside of my mariage, as I just don't see that I would ever find someone who fits me the way he does. There was one woman who we both had feelings for and she did for us, but she's married and they have a lot of problems in their marriage, mostly due to him being in the military and never being home. So I guess I do know it's possible, just maybe not with another man? I'm just a big ball of confusion at the moment.

Ok, I was curious. I know it is a hard topic to cover. Like I said, I have been through it with DH but for now I know I am not interested and he doesn't want me to be interested until we are under better terms. He has mentioned he doesn't mind me having a gf as long as he gets to watch, lol. Men! (no offense guys!)
 
Big step for tomorrow. A friend ours is heading back to North Carolina after a 3 week leave from the military. He is having a party tomorrow night. I decided to ask my husband if he would like to bring her. He had apparently already thought of this. I felt kind of let down. I thought okay I'm making a big step, let's all spend some time together. And he had already made all plans for it to happen anyway. I HATE being so damn petty, and I don't know how to make it stop. The point is we all get to spend some time together in a public setting so no awkwardness. Not who came up with the idea.

Oh well, I have a cake to bake, and that is always a destressor, so I'm going to go concentrate on that.
 
Big step for tomorrow. A friend ours is heading back to North Carolina after a 3 week leave from the military. He is having a party tomorrow night. I decided to ask my husband if he would like to bring her. He had apparently already thought of this. I felt kind of let down. I thought okay I'm making a big step, let's all spend some time together. And he had already made all plans for it to happen anyway. I HATE being so damn petty, and I don't know how to make it stop. The point is we all get to spend some time together in a public setting so no awkwardness. Not who came up with the idea.

Oh well, I have a cake to bake, and that is always a destressor, so I'm going to go concentrate on that.

Something about this bothers me. Did he invite her before he checked with you? Or did he just tell you he already thought of it and then asked her? If he already asked her I think he might have jumped the gun a little. With everything in such a fragile state right now he really needs to run these things by you before asking her to come along. I understand he was trying to show her he cares about her but you are his wife and he knows you are the one trying to accept his new life choices and needs to really remember that first.

If he just mentioned he had already thought of that maybe I am just playing the glass half full card first but maybe he was just trying to show that your minds were on the same page and that maybe you two were progressing toward understanding each other here. Perhaps he wasn't trying to take the credit.

Congrats on wanting to invite her along. That is a big step in such a short amount of time. A week into it I still couldn't face J. I was barely able to bring myself to talk to her about him. I only wanted to talk to her about what on earth was going on in her head and why she had made the promises that she had if they were only going to be broken. We have talked through all that now and I am great with her. But with four months behind us that has helped. And we have pretty lengthy conversations about so many things every day. Sometimes DH actually gets jealous because J and I talk so much. That is when I try to dial it back so he doesn't feel like I am taking over. Then he feels bad and apologizes. Sorry got off the subject there.

Basically I think you are doing really well! Keep taking it slow though. Don't overwhelm yourself and don't do ANYTHING before you are ready. Continue progressing but if you know you aren't ready then slow down, take a deep breath, tell you DH and her both and try again later.
 
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