primary status rejected

Okay, while I've basically caught up, I still haven't read the bit about the accident. Sometimes it's necessary to "skim". Otherwise, a boy has no life.

The picture I'm getting is that She is in in NRE, and at the moment He's everything to her.
That happens, and it's not hers or anyone else's fault. And also it seems that she's probably not her own primary. Yet. And what that means is that she's got love flowing with herself (if she's 'her own primary'). Simply put. She's perhaps wanting and "needing" that from other/s, as if it were not an "inside job". If we're lucky, at some point, we realize it's all an inside job.: We "get" about as much as we give. But if we feel empty (a "hole"), it's difficult at best to imagine anything that isn't a Life Raft Situation (LRS). A situation in which we're needing to be rescued by a knight or princess in Shining Amour. The illusion is always brief--however convincing at the moment.

My hope and wish for all of us is that we Wake Up from the Story and its feelingtones. That's why that book -- "Radical Acceptance" touched my heartstrings as it did. See: thread on Spirituality and Polyamory >>> "Radical Acceptance" -- which is about loving self as "primary". Hugs!
 
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mono.... Now you know why I was out buying 1000 advil. I still think that day you may have needed them more than I did.

SNeacail ... I went to my lawyer first and you are correct and that hurdle has been over come.... I just didn't want get into the legal minutiae here.

River... thanks for the reply ... As to insight ..... It doesn't matter how many people see problem or its possible fix. If the person who has said problem doesn't see it or refuses to acknowledge it makes things a lot more interesting. To be very honest I think this is like the perfect storm. Parent modeling, trauma from multi-parents and divorces, etc... brain chemistry was treated for depression...parents both alcoholics again chemistry.... mid life crisis which include hormonal changes again back to chemistry. I would be surprised in it was a combination of all those listed and 5 more factors uncovered during the process.

Now I knew what was up 2 days before the trip.... Not from anything being said directly but we exchanged a glance in which she had to look away. She knew I knew what her intentions were. I could have said I wanted her to go or that I thought family time was important.. I didn't. I thought if you don't want to be with us I don't want you with us for all of the natural reasons.

We had a similar argument back in oct or nov. She planned a spring break vacation to Florida for the 3 of us. That's never happened before, always the entire family and sometimes extended family. A month earlier she was talking about all the vacation day she needed to use. My HUGE problem was the selling of it to the kids first... When I blew up she said she was just trying to do something nice and that she was going to pay the 3500 dollar condo and airfare my end was food and rent a car, what a nice gesture on her part.

Wants and needs all seem to blend at some point.
 
River .... Man do I get the skim part. The problem I have is then remembering everyone's stories.

YA... get the NRE thing.. Lot of time and energy gets spent on techniques to over come jealousy, however no Jedi mind tricks to deal with NRE. Two thing on opposite sides of the spectrum.
 
I agree, at this point, with the poster who said that y'all should seek professional councelling help. Oftentimes, such folks can help sort it all out. Wants, needs, or otherwise. But choose carefully (the councellor, that is.) Anyway, Dingedheart, I wish for YOU peace and joy and healing.
 
What, SNeacail? You're not perfect in EVERY way? Shame on you!;)
 
river... Nre ...no one's fault... I think I have to disagree. We all make choices and I never get a pass on bad or thoughtless decisions no matter what.

As for the therapy suggestion. A few years ago we went as a couple and also as individually. One week as couple the next we would go separate then as couple the following week. We did this for about 5 months at which time it was concluded that the problem was in my wife's court. The therapist told me that she was happy to see me and if I needed to come as a way to process and or vent we could continue, but the work on I'm end was completed. And I have to say I learn a lot by the entire process, and it was not something I was excited to do. My wife continued for another few months maybe longer. It went from once a week to once every two weeks to something less... I think the therapist drop her because last minute cancellations and things of that nature. That's speculation on my part but when I suggested she might want to go back if she needed to talk to someone outside the mess she implied she couldn't go back to her.

SCeacail....what is the story behind your username?? I never remember it correctly, and always have to go back and check....I need something to get it to stick.. You mentioned that you also have felt that spending time or dates with husband was out of obligation and not true desire. Foreign concept to me. Did your husband pick up on that??? Do you feel your husband does that to you? If so are you ok with that? Just after the primary status discussion she was trying to initiate a sexual encounter to which I responded... "not really in the mood but if you need some type of release I'm more than happy to help with that". Guess what happened??? Not that interested after that. Seemed a little insulted... I could be wrong though.... so hard to tell these days.

After my run in with gravity and packed snow she seems much more affectionate. More hugs and kisses on the cheek, and the like. I get the intention but this is could be a mixed message for a guy with broken ribs.
I've told her that I don't need this new display to which she said "I'm not doing this for you I'm doing it for me. I feel safe... I feel safe in your arms" I didn't really know what to say in that moment..... long pause.. " that good I'm glad you feel safe" There was at least 4 other things rattling around in there that could have come out but I was just to beat up to start some emotionally draining session.

Although my changing some estate planning which is mostly symbolic and would have no effect on day to day life even if I were to die. I still have not told her of these changes. I not sure what will be the reaction... How would some of you people react if confronted with this type of news???

Hey... River.... maybe here's where NRE could actually work for me.... she may not give a shit at all.

thanks D
 
when I suggested she might want to go back if she needed to talk to someone outside the mess she implied she couldn't go back to her.

Wouldn't hurt to look for someone that connects with her better.

SCeacail....what is the story behind your username?? I never remember it correctly, and always have to go back and check....I need something to get it to stick..

He He, I'll admit, probably not the best username. S is my first initial and Neacail is the Galic spelling of my maiden name. Truth is I have to type it to remember how to spell it sometimes, sorry. SN works for me.

You mentioned that you also have felt that spending time or dates with husband was out of obligation and not true desire. Foreign concept to me. Did your husband pick up on that??? Do you feel your husband does that to you? If so are you ok with that?

I'm sure he did pick up on some of it and truth was, there wasn't alot of dates between us, which was part of the problem. I'm a "acts of service" and "quality time" person and he was never home, so there was a big disconnect there. Sometimes what started out as an obligation was very enjoyable and didn't end as an obligation, but it was something that I had to talk myself into in the first place.

I do think he has done the same, but I viewed it as him recognizing that something was out of place and he was trying to find a way to rectify it. He didn't always get it right and everything just seemed forced, but I couldn't hold it completely against him. Sometimes it takes effort to break old habits, once the habit of indiference and complacency is broken, the true desire will follow.

After my run in with gravity and packed snow she seems much more affectionate. More hugs and kisses on the cheek, and the like. I get the intention but this is could be a mixed message for a guy with broken ribs.

It could be that she realized she could have lost something she really does value. Ask her? I guess I would also tell her how it makes you feel when she abandons you and the family at the last minute, to go play elsewhere.

Although my changing some estate planning which is mostly symbolic and would have no effect on day to day life even if I were to die. I still have not told her of these changes. I not sure what will be the reaction... How would some of you people react if confronted with this type of news???

Oh, it won't be pretty and she will probably be deeply hurt. Based on some of your other statements of her past history, I would guess that, it's more about how she treats and acts toward you and the family than it is about her having a bf. Would you feel differently, if she treated you better consistently? Be clear about where you think the problem lies and what she can do to fix it.
 
river... Nre ...no one's fault... I think I have to disagree. We all make choices and I never get a pass on bad or thoughtless decisions no matter what.
.....she said "I'm not doing this for you I'm doing it for me. I feel safe... I feel safe in your arms" I didn't really know what to say in that moment..... long pause.. " that good I'm glad you feel safe"
....
Although my changing some estate planning which is mostly symbolic and would have no effect on day to day life even if I were to die. I still have not told her of these changes. I not sure what will be the reaction... How would some of you people react if confronted with this type of news???
to me, thoughtless decisions and bad choices are a result of some peoples inability to act and respond approriately to NRE. NRE is not the cause of her behaviour, its the result of how she handles it. Not very well by the sounds of it.

I think the two other points in the quote relate. Her sense of safety might be jeporidized. I don't necessarily think that you shouldn't of done what you did, but I guess you could of mentioned it before in the spirit of setting an example of how you wish to be treated. I don't blame you for how you handled it though.
 
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SN

Wish I'd ask the user name question sooner.....thanks....thanks a lot.

I'm a little confused. If your love languages are service and quality time why wouldn't you want to spend time with him? Or put another way if your love language is quality time why would you have to force yourself to spend time with him?

Its kind of funny I was reading your comment of the "affection" and the loss and..... I just got it. You mean my death... right? I couldn't figure out what the loss was because I haven't told her of the changes yet. Maybe ...Or it could she feels a little guilty not being able to help when needed. Could be she wants to look caring to someones who's been injured. When friends and neighbor are sick or injured she always without question is doing things for them... and generally she isn't asked she just does stuff....good friend. I have to say I never thought what you mentioned as a motivation for the new affection. Not real good at reading her motivations and even when I ask direct questions I don't always trust the answers. I just thought it was unusual...timing and all. I never felt she abandoned the family.....she got a better offer. I think this single act somewhat reinforces my position of her doing thing out of obligation. Given a choice there is no choice.

Not goin to be pretty.....and then some. But have been consistently wrong on reactions or actions I might be worried for nothing. I think timing is going to be the key. I think I need to revisit this primary topic and spell out its how it looks to me.

I agreed to this journey... so from an intellectual point of view I get it. And as I said I "think" I may have practiced this very lifestyle as a younger man. Most of my problems are operational.

Rp
You stated NRE is not problem ...or the cause it the result. But seems to be proffered up as an excuse.. Is this a chicken and the egg argument?

My wife will not suffer financially if I were to die...house is paid for..... stocks other investments she would be a part of.... the difference she wouldn't wildly, and or grossly profit form my death.

How would My mentioning my decision to change life ins, be in the spirit of setting an example of how I wish to be treated??? I think it would look like some type of blackmail or pressure or manipulation. Early I debated telling her at all...if its truly symbolic ...why bring it up .... why possibly hurt her...
 
You stated NRE is not problem ...or the cause it the result. But seems to be proffered up as an excuse.. Is this a chicken and the egg argument?
Well, when people are in NRE they are drugged up and experiencing a rush of adrenaline... among other things... hormones etc. There is a thread on this somewhere. The question is, what does one do with that? Do you run off to Vegas behind your families back to have a fuck fest? Or do you quietly mull over it while on vacation and plan to meet your lover later... looking forward to it, planning NRE out as a treat for when you are with them....

I dunno DH, I seemed to of pulled off a respectful way to deal with my NRE without anyone blowing up... no chicken and egg stuff went on or goes on. My darling husband on the other hand is not the greatest with dealing with his NRE. I have had to put my foot down a couple of times now when he has neglected his responsibilities.

NRE happens over all kinds of things; spring in the air, a kitten, dancing to a beat and allowing myself to get totally lost.... containing it in appropriate moments is what I have strived for. Dancing like I do when I go out for the night is not appropriate in a grocery store for instance. Nor is taking a day off work to feel the spring air on my face (okay, well maybe that is okay, depending on the situation ;)). NRE can be very selfish, its okay to be selfish if it is contained in appropriate moments I think. It should not be used as an excuse for not considering other partners. No one gives a shit about other peoples NRE. Only the person in it cares. Others might have some compersion, but that can vanish if they are not being respected. Responsibility is responsibility, NRE has no place there as far as I am concerned.

How would My mentioning my decision to change life ins, be in the spirit of setting an example of how I wish to be treated??? I think it would look like some type of blackmail or pressure or manipulation. Early I debated telling her at all...if its truly symbolic ...why bring it up .... why possibly hurt her...
I think you misunderstood. What I was saying is that by discussing it first, or even telling her what your plan is would be setting an example of how you expect to be treated. She didn't tell you about her trip, you in turn aren't telling her about the insurance. An eye for an eye doesn't set an example of how you want to be treated. "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule)." I'm not Christain, but this is a profound statement and words to live by to me... I also think of "An it harm none, do what ye will (in harming none and helping all)" from the Wiccan Rede (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_Rede)...

As you say though, it might mean nothing to her... but it might mean something to her if you are even concerned about it.
 
I haven't read the other thread you referenced, but I did read this thread straight through, and I feel like I'm missing something.

If you had told her in advance, "I think it's in the best interests of our children for me to change my insurance so that they are my beneficiaries, and I'm making it so that someone else will handle the money because I'm alarmed by the bad choices you are making, and I'm finding it impossible to trust you" then that would be a statement of fact. It might have been an emotional scene, and unhappy for everyone involved, but not manipulative unless you were trying to use it to control her behavior. Telling her after the fact might have the same effect, but if it were to happen to me I would feel ambushed, like I'd been given no notice that my behavior was unacceptable to you and that I'd been given no chance to change my ways.

I don't know if you're communicating with her, and I'm really not trying to condone her behavior, but I have to wonder if she would try to be a better partner if she had a chance to hear these things that you're sharing with us. Maybe I'm being naive, because I have a tough time understanding behavior like what you're describing from your wife.
 
DH, I read this thread and your pain is very palpable. I think you probably have gone through this in some other thread, but I must ask; what is keeping you married to your wife? 20 years? You love her, you just have hard time remembering/expressing/accepting it right now? Kids? You're stubborn? You honestly believe things will get better?

As to your original question; my primary doesn't consider me her primary. Reason; we don't have sex. A perfectly valid reason to my mind.
 
good morning to all

Rp

Yes I did misunderstand your statement. I have tried very hard though out this to respect all views and behaviors. I try to live my life by that rule. In my professional life I'm trying to get away from contracts and get back to old fashion hand shakes.

I think the NRE thing is case specific....some it handle well others don't. But I can tell you that it seems to be used as excuse or a reason to explain possible bad behavior. Several times on here people have said things to that effect..its NRE.. it wont last forever... hang in there... Its not her fault is NRE....as if it season flu or something. I know one thing and three people maybe more are bearing the brunt of that NRE. And I could list all the areas in which I believe to have been effected. Some of these concerns have been discussed with her... others have not. Most times its viewed as an attack, and then dismissed as my insecurity or jealousy.

When I was pissing blood and having real difficulty drawing a breath.... the thought of those two living it up in vegas with my kids money was something I wasn't willing to risk. Not the best time to be doing heavy mental work.. However, days later after some healing and uninterrupted sleep I still wanted to protect my kids from that possible down side. In my head I don't see this as a big deal nothing really changes ... I however am not that emotional about financial matters. As for RP and lemondrops point of having a conversation about....well that could still happen because I have not said anything yet. I feel bad about doing this and still being on her policy that is one of the reasons I feel I have to say something soon as I want to be removed from her policy.

Thanks Rp... didn't have the fuck fest image in my head until now... thanks.....kidding

Lemondrop ... The discussion of not being "the primary" that I had with my wife was born out of behavior and situations in which I saw a shift or sliding away from our relationship. I've mentioned the issue of time, dates, etc out of fairness....this is not uncommon in fact its most likely common. People talk about the shift in their sex lifes "sexless marriage thread" others talk about loving their partners but..not being in love with their wifes/husbands/ partners....some of the stuff I've complained about were not in the brochure when I signed up. Hope that clears things up a little... if not just ask ... I appreciate all of the different prospectives.
 
...I think the NRE thing is case specific....some it handle well others don't. But I can tell you that it seems to be used as excuse or a reason to explain possible bad behavior. Several times on here people have said things to that effect..its NRE.. it wont last forever... hang in there... Its not her fault is NRE....as if it season flu or something. I know one thing and three people maybe more are bearing the brunt of that NRE. And I could list all the areas in which I believe to have been effected. Some of these concerns have been discussed with her... others have not. Most times its viewed as an attack, and then dismissed as my insecurity or jealousy.

The NRE is an explanation for behavior, not an excuse. The chemical reaction in the brain is well known to cause poor decision-making and lack of forethought. That doesn't make it right when you hurt the people who love you.

I have a pre-diabetic condition, so sometimes my blood sugar drops unexpectedly. This can cause everything from massive stupidity (as in, I can't figure out how to add 2+2) to a raving psycho bitch. My family and I have learned to recognize the signs that something is off, and have ideas for things to do to alleviate the situation. My behavior is more likely to be bad during these episodes, but we all try to take steps to control and remedy the cause. If I were to scream at one of the kids during this time, it wouldn't be acceptable to me BUT I might not recognize that I was behaving badly until my blood sugar was dealt with. That wouldn't mean that it was okay for me to scream at my kids; it just might make my apology go over better afterwards. Might.

All I've got left is I'm sorry. I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm sorry your kids are going through this.
 
blackunicorn... Great questions... Yes/no/yes/yes, yes very, yes..... kidding.

One mistake I made was telling my wife that to me this was a big commitment not to be entered into lightly. Take as much time as you need think long and hard. About yr or so into our marriage the talk of kids came up and again I said " this is great but its not something to be taken lightly. I think I said you add kids to this marriage there would only be two ways out kill me or kill yourself. Why did I say this?

My wife's parents had each 3+ marriages. Thats just marriages lets not forget the numerous other relationships and live in situations. The fallout form that was apparent even then. There was/Is no fucking way my kids will have to go through something like that. I was in my 30's before entertaining marriage. I think I lived a poly lifestyle all through my 20's.. Not the first girl I kissed.

I think perhaps my comment or that pledge to my kids has been used against me. She knows where I stand on this topic right or wrong. She knows I'm not going to walk away. Maybe somebody here remembers where I wrote out our brief history and could provide a link, that

Yes I do love my wife.... I think she is suffering and is trying to fill some void or hole... most likely from past.

No ... I don't think I've trouble expressing my love. Maybe lately yes...or not feeling like expressing anything..

Stubborn .... ya very... 20yrs and 2 kids its something to work for.

Things getting better.... WOW just don't know right now...I think I have to try and reframe things in my head and in real life.

The big problem I have is the disconnect between word and actions....To me actions are much more powerful than words.... I love you can only go so far.
 
Currently my primary is rebounding after a psychotic breakdown, and it has put a huge stress on our relationship, which has moved more into a parent/caretaker-child arrangement. We don't live together at the moment, she is struggling with severe financial issues that I am of limited help in etc. Hell, we even had a fight a few weeks back! She is confident that this will make us stronger though, and that our relationship will deepen with the crisis. At my despairing moments I try to remember I love the person, not the illness. So I think I understand some of what you are saying, DH.
 
blackunicorn thanks for comments.

wow sounds like your going through a lot right now. I have no idea of what the ramifications of psychotic breakdown are but it sounds horrible and labor intensive. Does she have other poly partners to help in this crisis? What causes a psychotic breakdown?
 
Thanks! I don't want to hog your thread, but I'll answer briefly.

She needs pretty much constant baby-sitting, and for other people to structure her day, tell her to shower, encourage her to eat, to take care of her daily business etc. Right now I hope the tweak in her medication will help, since she recently took a turn to the worse (hence the fight!). She has other platonic partners/friends and is living primarily with her mum at this point, although I'm looking forward to moving back in with her in a week or two.

In her case, she has been feeling for a while now that she is a bad person, and destructive to all people around her. She keeps on telling me and everyone else near-and-dear that we would be so much better if she were dead. One of her favourite themes is that we think that we love her, but it's only because we don't know how horrible she really is inside. She feels that she is selfish and demanding and drains people around her and gives nothing back.

All of this is complete bull, of course, but her delusions are so strong that she often feels like 'Person A doesn't like me, in fact they hate me, and they are actively plotting my downfall'.
 
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