Small Town impossibility?

[Icewraithonyx]

Originally Posted by Jayehare

And I worry about hurting her even more by even trying to justify this ...

Then please...don't try. Even if she wasn't justified in viewing this as a betrayal (which I think she is), she's in NO state to try to see your view of things. While I don't believe you intended to cause pain, I think it's hard to deny that's exactly what happened. At the very least, I think you have to acknowledge that things were "introduced badly".

Honestly, I would give her time and space. While you're doing that, you might want to look into some resources about healing things after cheating. Wife and I found the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring rather helpful.

Good luck, I really do hope that she's able to heal from this.

[opalescent]

Originally Posted by Jayehare

I haven't heard a thing from L about what happened, but I tried to reach his partner and let her know that I didn't want to avoid this. She hung up on me. Too soon. I know that she is entrenched in thinking about this in terms of betrayal, and the lying was betrayal. But will I ever be able to get her to understand that motivations behind what happened were not so horrible? That we can choose to move forward from this in a different way?

It is too soon. You will have to be patient and wait for her to reach out to you. And she may never do so. Bluntly your motivations are irrelevant right now. It was a betrayal by you and her husband. You did not intend to hurt anyone. But that does not remove the hurt.

She may never come around to your way of thinking. You have no control over that. All you can do is be available to talk if she decides to do so and continue to work on your relationship with your husband. It was a good thing you decided to be open and honest with your husband. And fortunately that has gone well so far. Your former lover is now trying to do the same with his wife. And there is nothing you can do to help him, or her, with that. You will have to live with the shame and the guilt for a while. She cannot take that shame and guilt away from you. She cannot ease your pain right now. That is not her job or her concern. She may forgive you in time. I hope so. The only practical thing you can do now is learn from the shame and the guilt - which you are doing.

[Jayehare]

Originally Posted by opalescent

Your former lover is now trying to do the same with his wife. And there is nothing you can do to help him, or her, with that. You will have to live with the shame and the guilt for a while. She cannot take that shame and guilt away from you. She cannot ease your pain right now. That is not her job or her concern. She may forgive you in time. I hope so. The only practical thing you can do now is learn from the shame and the guilt - which you are doing.

What a learning experience this has been. I know that she can't ease how I feel right now, and that she may never, and she certainly doesn't have to. I'm going to have to come to peace with that on my own terms. I've never felt so wrong before, I've never been the agent of such pain.

What a humbling experience - life altering, mind changing. My husband is still being very supportive, and I am so thankful for that. It's amazing how two people faced with the same incident can react so differently.. But that's the meaning we make out of our lives ... and it's different for everyone.

So what about the rest of our friends - when talking to them, surely I can try and explain what happened - not in the hopes of being excused for it, but in the hopes that they understand? Is there an easy way to explain the poly mindset to those conditioned to monogamy? Or will that still look bad in the face of the pain that I've caused?

[JaneQSmythe]

Originally Posted by Jayehare

So what about the rest of our friends - when talking to them, surely I can try and explain what happened - not in the hopes of being excused for it, but in the hopes that they understand? Is there an easy way to explain the poly mindset to those conditioned to monogamy? Or will that still look bad in the face of the pain that I've caused?

To be blunt - it will still look bad.

I screwed up royally when I first got involved with Dude. I hurt my beloved husband - he hurt BAD. (You can read about it in my "Journey" blog here - the /jackassery/ section)

AFTER the dark times (because when my husband is upset with me there are very few people that I can stand to even talk to, let alone share with) I did speak to my very closest friends about what had happened and how miserable I felt having caused him so much pain. BECAUSE they were my very closest friends I knew that they could listen to me, see that I had acted badly, and still love and support ME while never, for one minute, "letting me off the hook" for the mistakes I had made.

Our other, regular friends? AFTER everything was reconciled and Dude was firmly established with us we began to gently talk about (around really) the concept of polyamory - which really surprised none of them, although some of them had questions, they've know us a long time .

JaneQ

[Jayehare]

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe

To be blunt - it will still look bad.
Our other, regular friends? AFTER everything was reconciled and Dude was firmly established with us we began to gently talk about (around really) the concept of polyamory - which really surprised none of them, although some of them had questions, they've know us a long time .

JaneQ

So I finally talked to L (recognizing we don't get to talk anymore), he called me at work. His tone was .... upset, I told you so (that's she wouldn't understand and would kick him out), and ... resigned. He said something about how it confirmed his suspicions that she was just waiting for a reason to break up ... which is something he's said about himself as well. Just neither of them wanted it to be their fault. He still wants to try, and I still want him to succeed, but reconciliation will be a long path, and it won't involve me at all.

Then after work I stopped to pick up the mail and our mutual friend J was there, who he's known his whole life and has confided in since this happened. She hugged me. I almost cried. So I guess it comes to this ... I tell people whatever they are ready to hear. I suspect that more people than I would like will know about this, and some will be mad, some will be accepting. Some I can attempt to explain, and some (particularly L's partner) I'll just have to take their emotions, validate them, and leave it at that ...

Something happens, we attach meaning, and then we feel what we feel. For everyone that's different. The challenge is to read that ... correctly.

[Jayehare]

Oh the journey I've been on! But last weekend, I believe, we finally arrived. After my last post, our world fell apart. Friends were supportive, but life was hard in our small community. I didn't speak to L for months. I first focused on fixing things with A, who I had betrayed and hurt so terribly. I balanced trying to be honest about how I felt about L and understanding that her hearing I had strong feelings for him was threatening. We had many difficult conversations, and, unfortunately, when L 'came clean' he didn't actually tell her the truth, so that came out slowly over a year and a half. She would ask me direct questions, and I couldn't lie any more, so the truth would come out. Her and I worked hard to regain our friendship, and it is now better than before.
About three months ago she came over to have dinner with me and my husband. Wine and a hot tub, as well as the first conversation that the three of us had had about everything that had happened, seemed to set a stage. We ended up having a threesome. Her and L had got back together, broken up, got back together, and then broken up again. I had had one brief conversation with L in the year and a half, which is quite the accomplishment in a town our size. Nonetheless, I cautioned A that I am not interested in keeping secrets, so she told L the next day what had happened with the three of us. The result? Angry emails directed at me. He couldn't get mad at them, but he could get mad at me. Eventually I called truce and suggested he and I talk in person. So we did, and SEVEN HOURS later (we had a lot to talk about) We're done talking and are now making out. What a backslide.
A is not upset about it, but L is all confused and starts to backpedal. Meanwhile, my husband and A continue to sleep together. It's kind of hot! Then I go away, and get an email that L, A, and my husband had had a threesome! WTF!? I'm amused, impressed, but also a little irritated with L. Where was I in all of this?
L sends me a few emails checking in, and eventually we go for a walk to talk. He's honest, he loves me, is attracted to me, but doesn't feel it's right for where he is right now. He wants A back, and that's his priority. I'm honest about my feelings, and we have a good chat. Both A and L have said that they are being more honest with each other than they have every been in their 12 year relationship.
Then last weekend... a party goes late. A and my husband start to make out outside. L notices, gets agitated, and comes to me. I reassure him that all is okay, and to just relax and enjoy. Next thing I know, him and I are going at it, and then we all head out to their camping trailer. The trailer starts a rockin' Him and I on one side, A and hubby on the other. We switched up in the end and it was awesome!
So far, everyone is pleased, no one is jealous, and the possibilities are endless.... But stakes are high! Nervous about the pitfalls, but hoping good communication can get us through. I never stopped feeling for L, and I finally feel whole again. That, and me and hubby have been having phenomenal sex every day since
A long road, but we've finally got somewhere I'd like to stay!

[nycindie]

It sounds like all the pieces are falling into a good place after a lot of turmoil. I do believe that the most successful quads happen naturally like this. I wish you well and hope you keep us updated!

[Jayehare]

Well, can't say that it went well. We tried, but it didn't work, so we stopped it all after about a month. We managed to stay friends, all of us, and that was good. Then about a year later my hubby, her and L started things up again!! At first it was said to be just a one off and nothing more would happen (and I wouldn't be involved) but the next weekend that didn't hold true. For two months we had our thing going on - all four of us getting together - but there was one catch. L and I were NOT allowed to pair individually. This brought up a huge dilemma for me. I don't think such rules are all that realistic, but I agreed to it just to keep what we all had going, also thinking that the whole quad system had to move at the pace of the slowest individual, which was A in this case and her fear of me and L being alone together. But then A went away for a work trip and L & I - despite promising her to the contrary - got together by day 4. It sounds weak, and I do regret it, but we couldn't resist. I felt like I'd been a starving puppy for months with a bowl of dog food right at my feet, but every time I went for it, the newspaper would wack me on the nose. Once the 'owner' was gone, I totally gave in to my hunger.
And it ruined everything. Without trust (which we discovered really wasn't there for either my hubby and A after the first transgression so many years ago) there seems to be little hope for repair.
So that was mid october. Since then, L and I did continue our relationship - at best I can describe it as "well, once you've crossed the line, you might has well spend some time there". My hubby has been all over the place with this, but at this stage is hoping I'll stay away from L (and I am.... mostly). He's threatened to leave me a couple of times. But he stays. And most days we are happy, but there's this terrible undercurrent.
I'm working hard with my therapist to tease this all apart. If I set L aside, I still don't feel like I can be monogamous in my relationship forever. My husband can't see beyond L at the moment, so can't even entertain a conversation about future 'other' relationships. I'm fighting the compulsion to contact L, but see him around town all the time. We're friendly, but any texting gets into the hot territory too quickly. I don't want to lose my family. And part of me is so resentful that THEY started this third round, when I felt I was so nearly over L. But I guess I wasn't ....
This has been so protracted over so many years, it's hard to see that it can ever be over. Hubby is just waiting for me to sneak off with L again. I'm terrified that I might. But more, I'm terrified that my husband will actually never be okay with polyamory again, and I'll eventually have to leave our family if I'm to be how I feel most comfortable being. Or maybe I can re-embrace monogamy? Renew the vows or some such? I don't know. Best I can do at the moment is understand that none of this will be clear until L is well out of the picture. But physically he's still there, and always will be. And in my heart, he's definitely still there ...
How do you know if you can genuinely return to monogamy? I'm afraid of building it all up again to just hurt my husband again. I can't do that. L couldn't do it to his partner anymore. That's why they are split. But I don't want to just be with L and he doesn't want that from me...
So freaking confused! Never mind trying to repair the friendship A and I had.
Can polyamory be less dramatic? Our forays into it have felt so good and right at the time, and then so unbelievably terrible. I don't know what to do any more.

[kdt26417]

Hi Jayehare,

I kind of get the impression that as long as you still live in the same small town as L does, you will continue to be tempted to be involved with him. Which doesn't mean you can't resist the temptation (and learn to live with it), but I wonder if moving (far away) would be something to think about?

Once L is removed from your proximity, maybe you can have a productive conversation with your husband about polyamory. Then if he says no to poly, you know you have to deal with that ultimatum.

As extreme as that all sounds, you must know that staying where you are means that L will overshadow your conversations with your husband, as well as many other aspects of your life. You are stuck in a way. Moving is a way of jarring some things loose.

I'm really sorry the quad didn't work out; that would have been nice.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.