'Complicated' is one way to put it.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Magdlyn. :( Hang in there.

Thanks, Iloveyou.

It's kinda bumming me out that he won't even continue our burgeoning friendship. I guess I can take comfort in the fact that about 8 hours of talking with me was the trigger that pushed him into finally opening lines of communication with his wife, when 10 months of weekly therapy didn't!
 
Mags,

not self-soothe with sex from an outside partner so he doesn't have to think about or deal with it.

Just my opinion... :)

This would apply if he would actually HAVE sex with me. LOL The guilt has put a complete halt to that. And he's just gone back to being miserable.

Obviously any improvements made in his life have to come from him. I understand this.
 
I have a question I would like others to ponder. This is not to open some heated, argumentative debate but a thoughtful discussion and brainstorming. I really am curious if any others have thought about this from this angle.

Why is it okay for one person to hold power over another person and withhold physical affection, in just about any form, from them and also tell them they can't get any of those needs met anywhere else; or else suffer serious consequences?

(I don't want to argue about whether or not this is the case with my bf. For argument's sake let's assume somewhere in this world there is a marriage like this.)

Let's put a different basic need in place of sex. For example: Let's say someone has a condition that requires massage therapy from someone who knows what they are doing. Would it be okay for the spouse to say, "I'm jealous of someone else rubbing your back and glutes so you can't get massages anymore or I will divorce you, but I'm not going to give you massages either."? Would he/she be "cheating" if he/she went and got the massages anyway behind the spouse's back?

Why is "cheating" and "sex" necessarily equated? There are, in fact, many different ways one can "cheat" on a relationship. (Like no longer putting any effort into it, or doing exactly the opposite of what your spouse has asked, etc, etc.)

Okay, maybe that was more than one question. Sorry. I would love to hear others' take on this.
 
..Because people are selfish.

In more detail : When people get scared of losing control, they get selfish. They can only see what they are losing, not what the other person might need. They lose sight of the cruelty in denying a basic right of touch, or comfort,....they only see what their fear dictates.

It`s quite sad.
 
I loveyoutwo I have been reading your story and wanted to say a little. I think part of the problem is not just control but also of acceptance. As much as you want to help and be loving, he is not accepting of this. I had a relationship like this. It took me a good long time to say to myself, I am banging my head against this tree... why? It took me a great amount of time to move on once it was over. I guess you are doing well with accepting the situation for what it is. I do wonder what you are getting from trying to make someone happy who seems determined to be in a no win situation. While it is easy to rationalize all the reasons why, YOU know which side of the fence you live on so it makes it easier for you in a way. He can't relate to that... I was just recently in this situation and since I am on the poly side I decided I didn't like feeling guilty for one moment. I have a friend who fancies himself poly but he still acts mono to his defunct marriage. I guess I do wonder outside of physical attraction, and wanting to help and love (it sounds very frustrating, and I have been there and done that a few times in my life.) if you are serving yourself well... I mean a wall is a wall... it sounds like you are close to one anyways...
 
Excellent points, Moonglow and good observation. I have come to realize more and more (as I've done a TON of thinking lately) that I am, in fact, banging my head against a wall. I've decided to stop. We are getting together for coffee in a couple days and I'm going to let him know, gently, that he is not obligated to pretend we are more than friends and that it's okay. We had a wonderful month last spring and I will forever cherish those memories. And, IF, at some point in the future he decides he is going to make some positive changes in his personal life then I will most likely be here for him. (I'm such a busy person I really don't see myself specifically searching for another secondary relationship right now.) We will continue to be coworkers and I will always care about him and have no problem being friendly with him.
It will be interesting to see how this conversation goes and how he responds.
 
Why is it okay for one person to hold power over another person and withhold physical affection, in just about any form, from them and also tell them they can't get any of those needs met anywhere else; or else suffer serious consequences?

Let's put a different basic need in place of sex. For example: Let's say someone has a condition that requires massage therapy from someone who knows what they are doing. Would it be okay for the spouse to say, "I'm jealous of someone else rubbing your back and glutes so you can't get massages anymore or I will divorce you, but I'm not going to give you massages either."? Would he/she be "cheating" if he/she went and got the massages anyway behind the spouse's back?

Why is "cheating" and "sex" necessarily equated? There are, in fact, many different ways one can "cheat" on a relationship. (Like no longer putting any effort into it, or doing exactly the opposite of what your spouse has asked, etc, etc.)
I think people allow others to have control over them because they are too afraid to speak up, don't know how to speak up, aren't sure what is going on for them, don't ask the other person what is going on for them, the other person is jealous or confused or unhappy and the person feels some how like they should put their own needs aside to "fix" that. There are a good number of reasons. None of which are one persons fault. Both are in a relationship and both need to embrace change in order to create something more healthy. Someone has to start and continue until the relationship ends or change for the better is made for both or more.

There are many ways to cheat. If the person who is being deceived remains in the dark about something that is a known or suspected trigger of feelings of betrail and lack of trust, that to me is cheating.
 
Excellent points, redpepper.

I was so looking forward to having a coffee date with my bf this past Thursday so I could talk with him, but alas he had a family emergency with one of his parents and we've had to postpone. Argh.
 
I think people allow others to have control over them because they are too afraid to speak up, don't know how to speak up, aren't sure what is going on for them, don't ask the other person what is going on for them, the other person is jealous or confused or unhappy and the person feels some how like they should put their own needs aside to "fix" that. There are a good number of reasons. None of which are one persons fault. Both are in a relationship and both need to embrace change in order to create something more healthy. Someone has to start and continue until the relationship ends or change for the better is made for both or more.

There are many ways to cheat. If the person who is being deceived remains in the dark about something that is a known or suspected trigger of feelings of betrail and lack of trust, that to me is cheating.

This is exactly what is going on for my friend X. His discomfort and shame around his gender however, I wouldn't characterize as cheating on his wife, so much as cheating himself. She feels lied to, not knowing this about him (his cross dressing), yet he had denied it in himself, and hid it in a misguided effort to protect her, and protect himself from her disapproval.

After not talking since Monday (when he told me maybe we shouldn't be connecting like this), he emailed me on Thursday afternoon. A long heartfelt letter about his experiences of his gender since childhood, the disapproval of his mom, the indoctrination of how he needed to keep it a shameful secret, and his current feelings about it. And he expressed how amazing it feels to him to have met me, someone who gets him and doesnt judge him negatively. I replied, rather briefly but positively, and then he asked permission to IM me the next day.

So I said yes, and we had 2 chats Friday, morning and afternoon. He admitted to feeling infidelitous about talking to me, his sexual fantasies about me doing things with him that his wife didnt feel good about, etc. But he missed me in those 3 days of not talking and seems to wish to at least remain chat friends as he starts the long arduous journey of healing himself and hopefully forging a better relationship with his wife. Early days yet, we'll see where it goes.

Sorry your coffee date didnt come to pass, Iloveyou.
 
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