The Struggling Mono Thread

I think a lot of my irritation also comes from being advised by poly people who see things way different, kind of like Olympic swimmers telling someone who doesn't swim that their fear of sinking is unreasonable. I couldn't relate to someone's pain or fear of swimming if I've always been a strong swimmer. I initially thought more people who were monogamous and struggling would respond, I didn't expect the number of poly people who've answered. I'm sure, when I'm not scraped raw, a poly perspective might be useful.

Confused, if you knew your husband was ultimately hoping that his efforts to win your trust back had an additional prize, not just your relationship, but something BEYOND that, would it have affected the way you viewed his efforts? I can't help but link everything he says and does to his desire to have other lovers. Like I'm a stepping stone, an obstacle to be managed to get from an unsatisfying monogamous relationship to what he ultimately wants. He has to make me happy to get to the ultimate prize. I'm really struggling to remain open to him.

I could look at it in cold terms of getting something out of the deal. Vacations, dates, maybe a movie (last movie I saw in a theater that wasn't Disney/Pixar was "Gone in 60 Seconds"), regardless of what his ulterior motives are. Remove my heart from play, and just enjoy some benefits.

So, now I'm asking for advice from anyone. I know poly is supposed to be one big happy family, everybody likes everybody and gets along, but I still want nothing to do with my husband's lovers if we get there. I don't want to know or interact with them or know what they do together. When I talk about "poly ways", this is one of my needs that I know is pretty much against poly policy. DADT isn't accepted for the most part. How can I protect myself and set boundaries around my relationship with my husband while allowing him to do whatever when most poly people won't engage in a DADT situation?
 
You have childhood memories that impressed you, but you do not know what went on with your parents and grandparents behind closed doors. Don't assume that everything was a bed of roses and they were psychic about everything they needed, no matter how happy they were.

Again, I will tell you that even monogamous people need to communicate. It is a basic of every relationship, not just poly. Monogamous people do not always get it right, obviously. Otherwise, why would there be an entire wall of books at Barnes and Noble on relationships and how to get what you need from them?

Mono and poly relationships are not really very different from each other. No relationship can work if there isn't mutual respect. No relationship work if the people in it feel devalued, not heard, unimportant, unable to feel safe or be themselves, and lacking in affection.

Look, your husband dropped a bomb on you. You are hurt, confused, angry, and feel betrayed. Understandably. Stomping around and making ultimatums or having a tantrum will not help you. Communication can.

I know poly is supposed to be one big happy family, everybody likes everybody and gets along, but I still want nothing to do with my husband's lovers if we get there. I don't want to know or interact with them or know what they do together. When I talk about "poly ways", this is one of my needs that I know is pretty much against poly policy. DADT isn't accepted for the most part. How can I protect myself and set boundaries around my relationship with my husband while allowing him to do whatever when most poly people won't engage in a DADT situation?

Where are you getting these ideas??? THERE IS NO POLY POLICY. Polyamorous arrangements are not "supposed to be" anything other than honest. There is no requirement that metamours (our partner's other partners) have any contact or friendship. If you want DADT, ask for it

But you are a hell of along way from negotiating things like that yet. Dealing with the emotional ramifications and rebuilding trust come first.

I initially thought more people who were monogamous and struggling would respond, I didn't expect the number of poly people who've answered. I'm sure, when I'm not scraped raw, a poly perspective might be useful.

Well, why were you reading poly books if you didn't want a poly perspective?

And, believe me, the day is young - we have many, many members here and quite a few of them are monogamous, so you will probably get more responses. I will ask YouAreHere to come and post in this thread - she is monogamous and in a relationship with a poly man. Her blog is here, if you want to read it: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50295

You may want to start a thread of your own as well.
 
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NYCyndie,

My apologies. I know you're poly and quite happy with your choices, and that's a good thing. I also don't expect you to understand what I'm thinking or feeling any more than my husband does. i think poly and mono minds process and perceive things differently. I see destruction of something I cherished and I'm guessing his poly mind isn't seeing destruction at all, only a possibility for more whatever it is he's looking for. I've tried to be calm and open while listening to him tell me how unhappy he is and how he needs something more than I'm capable of offering, so perhaps I've masked my fear and pain and anger too much. The first couple of weeks was a blur of numbness and withdrawal, these last couple of weeks, after the shock started to wear off, the hurt came roaring in, and it's overwhelming and at times unbearable. Again, I don't expect you to relate to it in the same way, and I do appreciate you're trying to share your perspective. I'm just not in a place where I can reconcile the gap.

And it's interesting, but until you called me on it, I hadn't acknowledged the anger. Pain, fear, sadness, abandonment, loneliness, loss, but not anger. But now that you mention it, yeah, I'm thoroughly pissed. Mad as hell, ready to rip shit apart. I've put everything I am and have into our kids, his dream business, our home (I restored an 1800s Victorian), our families. I put off or cancelled anything I wanted to do, thinking our time, MY time, would come and it would be worth it. And now he's telling me he's never been completely happy and our life together isn't enough?! Well welcome to my world, babe, I've been doing without enough anything including sleep for years. And yes, thank you nycyndie for pointing it out to me. I AM FURIOUS. And at the exact same time, deeply guilty for feeling angry and resentful. Fuck.

I am sorry I took it out on y'all.
 
I am sorry I took it out on y'all.

No need to be sorry. Everyone reading this thread is doing it 100% voluntarily.

You have all the right in the world to be angry. And, it is very healthy to recognize the emotions as what they are. No need to feel guilty about the anger.
 
Hi again, I was editing my last post while you posted. No need to apologize. I truly am glad that my contribution to this thread helped you see more clearly what is going on with you.

So, can you see that YOU didn't even realize how angry you were - it is possible he doesn't either. You need to talk. I think the most healing thing you can do is tell him exactly what you wrote here in that last post of yours. Otherwise, you and he will go in circles.


By the way, I am not poly - at least not how you mean it. I do not see either polyamory or monogamy as an orientation or brain wiring thing. I can't relate to that viewpoint at all! I was monogamous my whole life, and quite happy with it. I would happily be monogamous again with the right person. I choose to practice polyamory. I only see it as an approach to relationships, nothing more.

I chose poly because my husband dropped a bomb on me, too, and told me he wanted a divorce after 12 years together. I was devastated, suicidal, angry, and feeling betrayed, even though there was nothing like infidelity that made him want to leave me. He, too, was simply unhappy in our marriage but had kept it to himself for several years, so I know how you feel. I thought we had a few problems but none of them were deal-breakers in my eyes. But here he was suddenly telling me he wanted out and two months later he was gone. I was unemployed and almost became homeless. I had to leave school, sell my furniture, and borrow money from friends just to survive. Eventually, I clawed my way out of a deep black hole of despair and started putting my life back together. I saw how much he and I had closed off our lives from other people, friendships, family, and relied too much on only each other to fulfill our needs.

When I felt ready for relationships again, I chose not to ever be dependent upon one person again. I wanted to find different ways to be in relationship with someone, and polyamory fit the bill. I am solo poly, and a bit of a relationship anarchist now. But I don't see any relationship as meant to be permanent. I actually never did, but let myself get lost in codependency on my husband. I get lonely often, but I'm finding my way.
 
"Well, why were you reading poly books if you didn't want a poly perspective?"

When I'm faced with something I don't know about/understand, I read and research, I try to find answers, hope. My family called me The Researchinator after we got the Autism diagnosis. You would have completely off the wall out there info, and then you'd have research that was repeated and built on, and spin offs, and generally held as solid. Of course, you don't believe everything published, but you look for recurring patterns and themes.

There are recurring themes and experiences related on poly blogs and books. I focused mostly on poly-mono relationships, and frankly, it's grim. Really grim. And mostly, it requires almost complete change and concessions from the monogamous partner in order for it to work. DADT was widely panned as being unethical. Vetos are unethical. Anything a mono would need for safety or reassurance is considered (widely if not universally) to be unethical. All the responsibility for shifting, sharing, accepting and "growing" are on the mono partner. And if you can't do it, you'll be dumped for the poly relationships. It's not ethical to dump a poly partner if your mono spouse is hurting, but it's okay to dump your mono spouse if your poly relationships are suffering. It almost feels like "majority rules"; you can vote and be heard, but we outnumber you, so good luck.

I know I should stop looking for The Holy Grail, it's part of desperation.
 
I think it works best when like dates like.

Trouble here is that you were told it was like, married, and underneath were lied to for twenty years. I would feel angry too. This is not a new discovery. Spouse kept this under wraps for 20 years while enjoying your contributions. That lie of omission went on for a long time.

I mean this kindly ok? But to me it sounds like you allowed your life to become really unbalanced in service to him and your kids. Giving lots, even going without pay at work while doing double jobs. There is nothing wrong with wanting to express your love through acts of service to your family. But you took it over the top when you stopped caring for you.

Now that you want an assistant, help in the home, etc to return your schedule to something more balanced... So you also make room for YOU so you can be healthy? Your spouse is kicking up fuss? Why? Because the salary that could have gone to you all along will actually HAVE to be paid if another person does does the job in there business?

You ask if he loves you, since you now doubt his word... I get this is all incredibly painful. You are shaken to the core. :(

I could be wrong, but he sounds kind of "memememe!" All about him and service to him. And because he enjoys and loves what you do for him, he isn't going to just up and tell you he stayed married this long while doing lies of omission because he enjoys being served.

I really hope you stick to your own preferences and do not agree to polyship.

Subsuming yourself to the relationship some more is not healthy. And waking up to realize that is what happened here.... That is rough.

I wonder if you are unwilling to state your needs directly because if you do, then there is no more hiding it or avoid knowing it? It is not about him being a doofus with no intuitive skills who just does not see you are upset. Then he would be thoughtless, but possibly forgiven for not having the skills.

Asking up front means he cannot pretend to not see or not hear. I wonder if you avoid spelling it out so you can avoid seeing him not respond, not care, or avoid learning he only cares if it is convenient to him or gains him something?

I do not think poly will work between you. It requires communication and honesty. If he withheld information for twenty years? Saw you overextending yourself so much and said nothing to help you? I am afraid he sounds kind of user. :(

I cannot think of a nicer way to say that. I wish I could. My heart goes out to you. This is horrible and I am so sorry this is happening to you. You deserve to be treated well. :(

You might think about having some individual appointments with your counselor before you meet with counselor as a couple to help determine best outcome here. You are not going to polyship. So it is either monoship and willing to hear about his poly feelings or monoship and not willing to hear about his poly feelings. If neither of these will do for to him, then on to a fair divorce so he can be free to poly how he wants and you can be free to seek mono how you want.

If he is mad about it, he only has himself to blame for not bringing it up sooner and sorting out the incompatibility sooner than twenty years deep.

But definitely no dates with husband, and no poly talks with husband right now. You are in deep mourning for the marriage you thought you had... And going through all the stages of grief while being overloaded with his stuff on top. It is better if you each take a timeout and everyone deal with their own for now.

You cannot carry him and his right now too. That is supremely unfair if he expects it.

I hope you have separate finances already just in case he pulls a ditch and run and leaves you holding the bag. If not, take care of that now. I feel terrible bringing it up, but you could not let your grief prevent you from protecting you and kids financially.

There is a lot more row to hoe before this is over. And bills still need paying each month.

Again, I am so sorry. I cannot even imagine how hurtful this is for you. :(

Galagirl
 
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Monomom - I have been reading your posts and feeling much sadness on your behalf.

NYCyndie,
I put off or cancelled anything I wanted to do, thinking our time, MY time, would come and it would be worth it. And now he's telling me he's never been completely happy and our life together isn't enough?! Well welcome to my world, babe, I've been doing without enough anything including sleep for years.

You should be angry and not at all guilty. Women are really sold a lie when it comes to relationships. We are taught since birth that we should seek a husband, pay attention to men, put our lives on hold to be supportive, make a home - all of that stuff.

For men, it isn't the same. They learn to be looked after, that what they desire matters more. Not their fault. They also are taught it from birth.

But - it leads to heterosexual relationships being a far better deal for men than for women. That is stuff to be angry about on its own. For you - having done the right thing, made the sacrifices and then being told that it isn't enough - utter fury is an utterly reasonable response.

I do not see either polyamory or monogamy as an orientation or brain wiring thing. I can't relate to that viewpoint at all!

I very much agree with this. To me, poly is an approach also. Not one that I'm interested in.

I'm in a monogamous relationship with a poly man. My partner would prefer that we had poly relationships. I would not. Would not to the extent that if he wants to have poly relationships, I would end the romantic part of our relationship. He tells me that at the moment he would much rather have the relationship we have than be poly. It's a choice and he may change his mind in the future - something I'm okay with.

Being in a romantic relationship and being poly seems like a huge amount of work and effort to me. I'm not up for it.

I have never married, never been dependent on a man for anything. I have a wide range of friends and interests. I've been single for large periods of my adult life and happy to be that way.

I have no interest in complicating my life to the extent that poly relationships seem to.

Deciding not to be poly is a totally valid point. In fact, it was reading these boards and people's stories of the realities of juggling multiple relationships that made me realise that I was in no way interested in doing the same.

I hang around because I think that many of the people here are wonderfully caring and compassionate. I like to be around them and feel comfortable here. :)

In your shoes I'd for sure go for divorce. Make sure that your husband takes 50% of the child care. Go and find a well paid job with the skills you have (you do know that you are massively skilled, don't you?) and spend your additional spare time getting enough sleep and finding a man who treasures you.
 
I was massively skilled when I left the college 20 years ago. Now I'm lucky if I can match my socks and make it to the grocery store without something staining my blouse. I've been figuring salary and benefits for an Executive Assistant for 14 years, I'm rich. :)

I've called and cancelled his tee time tomorrow and let him know we need to talk. I've got respite care lined up for 3 hours. Total focus, no interruptions. It's my turn to talk and him listen.

If I don't show up after, please raise bail money.
 
Monomom, I'm sorry you're struggling with this, and that you feel blindsided by your husband's revelation. It sounds as if you've put in a lot of work, in your relationship, as a parent, and in your husband's business, that hasn't been acknowledged or appreciated, at least not appreciated in a way you can recognize and feel good about.

That aside, though... Researching is natural. I tend to be a "researchinator" myself, which is what led me to this forum. But please try to realize that just because the books you've read present negative portraits of what being a monogamous person in a polyamorous situation looks like, that doesn't mean that EVERY situation will be negative.

Hubby and I have a DADT policy, to some extent. He's asked me to tell him when I'm planning to see S2, but he doesn't want to know anything beyond that. I don't consider DADT unethical, though others may disagree. I consider it setting a boundary as to what someone is or isn't comfortable knowing about.

Hubby and I also have veto power over each other's partners. (Or, rather, he has veto power over mine; at this point he neither has nor is seeking any other partner, but I would have veto power if he did seek.) Our agreement is that if a new person comes into the picture, we discuss it *before* any date or overture is made, and that would be when the veto power could be exercised. In practice, we haven't even done it that way; it's been "Hey, you know so-and-so? She's off limits," with Hubby replying, "Yeah, I'm not interested in her anyway even if she has been flirting with me." In my opinion, there are ways in which veto power could be unethical, but I don't think it *always* is.

As others have said, there is no single set of rules for polyamory. What works is what works *for the people involved*. But you do need to be vocal about what you need and what will work for you. And yes, sometimes you do have to speak up about something as simple as "please pay attention to me," even in a monogamous relationship with someone who loves you deeply. Hubby spent over a decade alone, and when we got together, he had no relationship skills to speak of. I had to ask him to spend time with me, to listen to me when I talked, even to tell me he loves me. Not because he didn't love me, but because those things simply didn't occur to him; they aren't needs for *him,* so I had to explain to him that they are needs for *me.* Once I spoke up, though, he was more than willing to give me what I needed.

I'm obviously not monogamous, but for the moment, at least, both of my men are. For me, it's a constant balancing act of checking in with each of them to make sure they feel comfortable, respected, and loved, as well as to make sure I'm wisely budgeting my time among my children, my career, and each of my guys. For them, it's a matter of talking to me if something isn't working for them, but also a matter of "This is weird, but if you're happy, I'm happy."
 
I don't have a problem with him having outside interests or friends, even female friends. It's not about wanting a monopoly on his time or interest. We actually have very little time together as it is, and most of it is spent doing work related or family things. So it's not about being co-dependent.
Granted, I'm and the girls are financially dependent on him, but that's not keeping me where I am, or causing me any grief.
But the thought of my love, my man, in the arms of another woman reduces me to a raging, fearful, ball of hurt. I want ONE area of the relationship spectrum that is unique and wonderful for just us. If he wants to be best buddies with the Brazilian Beach Volleyball team, go for it. God speed. But come home to me, be my love, and be willing to share that one special aspect of love with only me. If he's romancing a bunch of other women, sex and love and happily ever after, really what's left for me? What's special about our relationship if he gets the same thing from other women?

And I totally get why poly would appeal to a single woman. All the love and romance and sex without the laundry, dirty dishes and batcrap crazy inlaws.
 
Monomom, I'm not sure if you were responding to my post. I hope not, because if you were, you've responded to some things I didn't say...

I didn't say a word about being co-dependent or wanting a monopoly. Nor did I think that's what you were talking about. You want your husband's time and attention. That's something entirely reasonable, not something co-dependent or negative. And financial dependence is something else entirely; I'm disabled and so is one of my daughters, so I'm unable to work and am therefore financially dependent on Hubby.

I also completely understand how you feel about the thought of your husband with another woman. When I think about Hubby or S2 having another lover, I feel the same way you do when you think about your husband having another lover. And yes, I realize that's hypocritical of me, but feelings are what they are. I wouldn't *stop* them from having another lover if they chose to, but I would be upset and afraid about it.

Your husband wouldn't be getting the same thing from other women as from you... Sex, maybe, but not the two decades of love, companionship, teamwork, and parenting that the two of you have shared. You are uniquely you. You can't be replaced, and replacing someone isn't what polyamory is about.

And again, not sure if you were responding to me, but... I'm not single, nor was I single when I began living polyamorously. I've been with Hubby for nearly seven years, married for almost five of those. We were monogamous for the first five years we were together. I came out to Hubby as polyamorous in September 2013, about six months after Hubby suggested we open the marriage to other sexual partners.
 
KC43,
I'm not sure who brought up co-dependency, I'm just trying to work through why I feel like I do. I've never limited his social experiences or asked him to spend all his time with me. Mine have been limited by circumstances, and I've allowed that to happen. Some days, he's the only adult I talk to.

And again, I'm not sure how the poly mind works, but for me, having other love affairs, other sexual and romantic encounters, takes away from what we have. If he's all focused and hot and bothered for someone else, or someones else, then.... I don't know what then. It just makes me feel less loved, precious, special, desired, and really worried. I guess it's because I just don't relate. I love a lot of people, male and female, but only one romantically and sexually. I can appreciate good looks, humor, intelligence in a lot of males (my 3 hot buttons), but I don't lust after anyone but my husband. I just don't get it. I never did the "serial monogamy" bit. If I got to the point of deep love and sex, I was usually the one dumped. And it took a long time to get over, which explains why I've only had 3 loves in my 48 years. This just feels like a prelude to the end.
 
And I totally get why poly would appeal to a single woman. All the love and romance and sex without the laundry, dirty dishes and batcrap crazy inlaws.

@monomom, I imagine you are too upset to hear this, but the above isn't true.

It's a lovely fantasy, but real relationships with real people stop being fantasies after those first few months of oxytocin-fueled love bubbles run out.

I am a secondary who has been with a poly partner for 4+ years. I am not attached to anyone else. I love my partner and we make it work, but some complications are that I do all the shared laundry because my partner doesn't live with me. I do all of our dishes and grocery shopping, too, because our time is limited. The in-laws are nice people, but don't see my relationship with my partner as anything but a temporary mistake. I certainly don't get birthday cards or Christmas gifts.

Aaah, relationship reality. It's never simple, but worth it to be on a path with my partner.
 
PaperGrace,

I would be interested to know what path you see yourself on and what you enjoy about it. And by "shared laundry", I'm assuming sheets/towels and a couple of outfits, and not two weeks of oilfield muck covered jeans and shirts, socks and underwear, and FR clothing that has to be laundered separately with special detergent. You don't, I'm hoping, have to scramble to pull together a dinner party for a client and his wife with 2 days notice while juggling kids and filling out the family tax returns, or deal with shopping and preparing new meals for The Diet Craze of the Month. Seriously, I hate Paleo. And my in-laws wish I was a temporary mistake, but I'm still required to treat them respectfully and lovingly. I've not received a card or gift in 21 years and they tried to bribe my husband to leave me at the alter. And you do this day in and day out, without a vacation, for as long as you're married.

I'd still be willing to bet you, as a secondary, get a larger proportion of good to bad than a spouse. You also have the bonus of telling your lover you're just not up for it if you aren't. Having the power to cancel plans when you're too tired or sick would be a HUGE bonus of being a secondary.
 
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PaperGrace, I re-read that and it sounded snotty. I'm sorry.:(

But I really am interested what paths secondaries see with their lovers, what sustains you through the challenges you face? I'm beginning to wonder if I have anything good to balance all the challenges, because I'm sure as hell not getting romance and hot sex.
 
If you got hot romance and sex, would it change anything about the incompatibility? I do not think so.

You value exclusivity. You will not get that in a polyamorous relationship with him.

If he is asking if you are willing and able to participate in a polyamorous relationship with him? It is basically sounding like a "no" to me. Not willing, not able. Along with a big helping of "Why are you telling me this now 20 years in instead of early on? Who ARE you?!" :(

I hope you are able to see a counselor soon. It has been a shocker and a deep hurt. Hang in there.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl, at this point in time, I'm wondering why I'm staying at all, poly or no poly. Love, affection, and hot sex help make all the pain and frustration you have in a long-term monogamous relationship easier to accept. But NOT having romance, love, affection and hot sex while the man I love heaps it on someone else is a definite "oh hell no". Does that make sense?

Do I want a poly relationship? No. Could I live with one? I don't know, but I doubt it. Could I live with one considering the condition of our relationship right now, i.e. marriage remains status quo as my husband goes out romancing? Definitely not with extreme prejudice. Am I willing to walk away from someone I love without a fight? Nope, never been a quitter. If we divorce, it will be an absolute last resort. We'll see how the talk goes tomorrow, accepting the therapist and committing to therapy along with agreeing to hiring an assistant will be a good indication if he's willing to work to save our marriage or if he just wants his freedom.
 
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We had a very heated discussion about hiring an assistant for him last night. This appears to be something he's not willing to compromise on and I desperately need. .... from what I could nail down is it's OUR business and my pulling out of it makes him feel like I'm preparing to leave the marriage.

So he won't compromise on you getting the help you need (you sound somewhere way beyond exhausted), but you're supposed to compromise on letting him get the women he wants?

Sounds like a huge double standard. Worse than a double standard, really, as asking for a work assistant is a million light years away from asking for a girlfriend.

And he's worried about YOUR (joint) business, but doesn't appreciate that you're concerned about YOUR (joint) marriage?

He's worried that a work assistant means you're preparing to leave the marriage, but you're not supposed to worry that a girlfriend might mean he ends up leaving the marriage???

To me, this sounds like a guy playing mind games and manipulating. These things are not rational, fair, or even respectful. You're run down and exhausted, and he objects to a work assistant for you, but you're supposed to happily watch him go off on dates with a girlfriend--which only leaves you holding more of the bag in terms of work, responsibility, keeping the house going, caring for the kids, etc.

What he's asking is blatantly unfair. You have every right to feel as you do. You have no obligation to agree to this.
 
I wonder why you stay also.

What are you fighting to keep? What are you saving the marriage from?

Those might be things to talk to the counselor about.

You have every right to have your preferences for marriage. There is nothing wrong with you wanting monogamous marriage for you.

It just might not be with this partner if he does not want the same. I wish he had told you sooner rather than sit on it for two decades. :(

Galagirl
 
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