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  #21  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:47 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Thank you for more info.

Quote:
When I call someone, I have an expectation that the call is between the two of us, not between the two of us plus whoever else is in the room, and I want to know if that expectation isn't being met.
Could ask him directly at the start of the call if he's on his own or with other people. That is something YOU can do to allay your privacy concern.

Quote:
And it is partly so that I don't interrupt his time with that other partner.
Could let that be his part of the job. Presumably if he answers, it is not an interruption. If you happen to call and it would be an interruption... he doesn't have to answer. He can let it go to voicemail. Then he isn't being interrupted.

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The issue wasn't *really* that he didn't let me know he was seeing his other partner that night; it was--is--that I don't have enough trust in him not to allow someone else to replace me, because of my own insecurities.
Let me repeat that back in my own words to make sure I get it how you mean it.
I think my BF is going to replace me with someone else. So I don't trust him. I know it's my own insecurities that make me think that. But I'm still not gonna trust him.
Is that what you are saying?

Galagirl
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:42 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Thank you for more info.

Could ask him directly at the start of the call if he's on his own or with other people. That is something YOU can do to allay your privacy concern.
Yes, I could, and that's a good point. That goes back to the necessity of assuming he's going to be with someone else if I cancel our date night, since otherwise, he isn't likely to be with someone else on a weekday morning.

Quote:
Could let that be his part of the job. Presumably if he answers, it is not an interruption. If you happen to call and it would be an interruption... he doesn't have to answer. He can let it go to voicemail. Then he isn't being interrupted.
Also a good point.

Quote:
Let me repeat that back in my own words to make sure I get it how you mean it.
“I think my BF is going to replace me with someone else. So I don't trust him. I know it's my own insecurities that make me think that. But I'm still not gonna trust him.”
Is that what you are saying?

Galagirl
No. Thank you for asking for clarification. What I'm saying is that *because* I have these insecurities, I don't trust that my boyfriend won't replace me with someone else, or that a metamour won't try to persuade him to replace me. But I do *want* to have the trust in him that he won't replace me, even if a metamour does try to talk him into it. Which happened previously, and he refused to stop seeing me, which should reinforce that he isn't going to let another partner talk him out of our relationship, and I keep reminding myself of that. I also want to trust my metamours that they won't do that.

That's why I said that the issue is that I don't have enough trust; that was me identifying the root of the problem, because that then becomes the problem I need to address. I know why I'm insecure, and I'm working on being more secure. But I also have now identified that I need to work on being more trusting of others as well. So I wasn't saying "This is how it is and shall remain," I was saying "OHHH... THIS is how it is. THIS is what I can work on to try to improve things."

Last edited by KC43; 07-08-2018 at 02:50 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:37 PM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is offline
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"My boyfriend has been with me for nearly three years. He is a caretaker type; he has had other partners in the past who had more needs and less ability to manage their issues than I have, and stayed with them until *they* chose to leave."

Is this healthy?

"I don't expect anyone to "fix" anything or be my crutch. All I ask for from my partners is that they, within the bounds of their abilities and emotional bandwidth, listen to me when I am struggling and offer me reassurance and comfort."

Maybe I misunderstood, but I read that he told you he was with his other partner and you hung up on him and followed by giving back all his stuff and taking yours. You neither gave him an opportunity to listen nor limited your expectations of him to put your needs above everyone else's. That is expecting him to be your crutch. That isn't a request for reassurance or comfort, that is a demand to do what you need or be dumped.

"But when I'm physically ill, as I was that night (migraine and fibro flare, exacerbated by our heat wave), I prefer to be left alone to take care of myself, other than asking Hubby to run errands for me if something needs to be done immediately. You also seem, with that statement, to be assuming my boyfriend would have *wanted* to take care of me that night if he'd had the option."

I think you misunderstand my point, although you have strengthened it here. He has no choice other than to not be with you when you are sick and unable to leave the house. That is because a) you restrict partners in your marital home and b) you prefer to be alone when sick. Still, you acted on your resentment that he chose to spend quality time with another partner when you left him no way to spend time with you. Notice I am not talking about you feeling resentful, we cannot help our feelings much, but you acting on it by doing what you did.

"I want our conversations to be private. "

To what extent? Is any of that because you feel anxious about people hearing the type of dynamic you have? I would feel fine about my metamours hearing the majority of my phone conversations with out hinge as we mostly laugh and make plans for good times ahead. If they were heavy and tainted with negativity a lot of the time, I might feel differently.

"I feel like I'm being presented in your post as a helpless little whineass who expects everyone to do everything for her, and that is definitely not who I am. If I were, I literally wouldn't be alive right now, let alone capable of living a functional, usually happy, life."

In truth, a lot of your posts have a general tone of "I can't" and therefore everyone else should make me feel better about it.

"I literally had to be taught how to make small talk, and it's only been about a decade since someone took the time to explain to me that when someone asks "How are you" they don't want an actual answer, they're just being polite."

This is not as black and white as whoever told you this. It very much depends on who they are. A good friend in an intimate atmosphere really means it, they want to hear your ups and downs. A new acquaintance does not. You just say "fine" or something to them. It sounds like you have had trouble achieving that balance so an absolute rule was offered.

"I stated in my first post... my expectation was NOT that he would sit at home doing nothing. My BELIEF was that that was what he would do, because he didn't indicate otherwise and because I knew he had something going on the next day that he needed to prepare for, so I made the assumption that he would stay home to prepare for it. (Which he also would have done if I'd kept the date, by the way; at least half of the night would have been spent with him preparing for this and me sitting there twiddling *my* thumbs.)"

I think this is likely far more the source of your meltdown. You feel resentful that he would have incorporated his other tasks with seeing you whereas he seemingly just went to spend fun time with his other partner.
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:44 PM
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vinsanity0 vinsanity0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
Thank you. I'm sorry you're having to deal with anxiety and depression.

Letting go of the attachment to why things happen, and to the outcome of things, is something I'm working on. To some extent I do want to know why I feel a certain way about something, because I perceive that as helping me figure out *how* to work on it. But I do go overboard at times.
In my case the depression was easy to figure out. But the anxiety? I have no idea. It seems to be that it just is. Possibly just brain chemistry? Nothing has happened in my life to explain why I feel the way I do about certain things. Just recognizing it was a huge help.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:17 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Thank you for responding and clarifying your points, as well as pointing out things that I said that contributed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEASONEDpolyAgain View Post
"My boyfriend has been with me for nearly three years. He is a caretaker type; he has had other partners in the past who had more needs and less ability to manage their issues than I have, and stayed with them until *they* chose to leave."

Is this healthy?
I would say that there's a strong probability it isn't. I'm realizing through this situation that it certainly isn't healthy for *me*, at any rate.

Quote:
"I don't expect anyone to "fix" anything or be my crutch. All I ask for from my partners is that they, within the bounds of their abilities and emotional bandwidth, listen to me when I am struggling and offer me reassurance and comfort."

Maybe I misunderstood, but I read that he told you he was with his other partner and you hung up on him and followed by giving back all his stuff and taking yours. You neither gave him an opportunity to listen nor limited your expectations of him to put your needs above everyone else's. That is expecting him to be your crutch. That isn't a request for reassurance or comfort, that is a demand to do what you need or be dumped.
You did read that correctly, and I understand how you view it. It definitely isn't a request for reassurance or comfort; I acted out of emotion without taking the time to think it through. It was not intended as a "do what I want/need or else," though I can see how it would come across that way. My line of thinking was more "This hurts, this reaction isn't fair *to him*, I should end the relationship so I don't have to deal with the pain and he doesn't have to deal with me acting this way." I'm not sure that's much better.

Quote:
"But when I'm physically ill, as I was that night (migraine and fibro flare, exacerbated by our heat wave), I prefer to be left alone to take care of myself, other than asking Hubby to run errands for me if something needs to be done immediately. You also seem, with that statement, to be assuming my boyfriend would have *wanted* to take care of me that night if he'd had the option."

I think you misunderstand my point, although you have strengthened it here. He has no choice other than to not be with you when you are sick and unable to leave the house. That is because a) you restrict partners in your marital home and b) you prefer to be alone when sick. Still, you acted on your resentment that he chose to spend quality time with another partner when you left him no way to spend time with you. Notice I am not talking about you feeling resentful, we cannot help our feelings much, but you acting on it by doing what you did.
I may have been resenting that he spent time with another partner. But my issue, to me, was less that he spent time with her and more that I didn't know he was spending time with her. As Galagirl pointed out, it might be unreasonable for me to want/expect to know that, but that was the issue. That said, I agree that my actions were out of proportion to the situation. Knowing that was one of the reasons I posted in the first place, because I do want to change this pattern.

Quote:
"I want our conversations to be private. "

To what extent? Is any of that because you feel anxious about people hearing the type of dynamic you have? I would feel fine about my metamours hearing the majority of my phone conversations with out hinge as we mostly laugh and make plans for good times ahead. If they were heavy and tainted with negativity a lot of the time, I might feel differently.
The majority of our phone conversations consist of "How are you today, what are your plans, how are you feeling, hope you have a good day." So they are positive, or at least neutral. As I explained above, it's similar to how nesting partners might check in with each other at the beginning of a day; since he and I aren't nesting partners, we do it by phone.

I prefer that my conversations with *anyone* be private, because I don't consider it anyone else's business what I'm saying to someone or what they're saying to me, regardless of what it is. For that reason, I will very rarely have a phone conversation with anyone if I know someone is with them, and if Hubby is home when I'm having a conversation, I go into our bedroom and turn on the white noise so he won't overhear, because I feel that the person I'm talking to has as much reason to expect privacy as I do.

Quote:
"I feel like I'm being presented in your post as a helpless little whineass who expects everyone to do everything for her, and that is definitely not who I am. If I were, I literally wouldn't be alive right now, let alone capable of living a functional, usually happy, life."

In truth, a lot of your posts have a general tone of "I can't" and therefore everyone else should make me feel better about it.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I need to be more careful with my tone and my words.

Quote:
"I literally had to be taught how to make small talk, and it's only been about a decade since someone took the time to explain to me that when someone asks "How are you" they don't want an actual answer, they're just being polite."

This is not as black and white as whoever told you this. It very much depends on who they are. A good friend in an intimate atmosphere really means it, they want to hear your ups and downs. A new acquaintance does not. You just say "fine" or something to them. It sounds like you have had trouble achieving that balance so an absolute rule was offered.
That may be accurate. I had trouble achieving the balance because I didn't understand that there *was* one.

Quote:
"I stated in my first post... my expectation was NOT that he would sit at home doing nothing. My BELIEF was that that was what he would do, because he didn't indicate otherwise and because I knew he had something going on the next day that he needed to prepare for, so I made the assumption that he would stay home to prepare for it. (Which he also would have done if I'd kept the date, by the way; at least half of the night would have been spent with him preparing for this and me sitting there twiddling *my* thumbs.)"

I think this is likely far more the source of your meltdown. You feel resentful that he would have incorporated his other tasks with seeing you whereas he seemingly just went to spend fun time with his other partner.
Yes, I would say that had a lot to do with it, along with finding out several minutes in that I didn't have the privacy I'd expected when we started our phone call. Neither of which makes my reaction okay.
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:21 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity0 View Post
In my case the depression was easy to figure out. But the anxiety? I have no idea. It seems to be that it just is. Possibly just brain chemistry? Nothing has happened in my life to explain why I feel the way I do about certain things. Just recognizing it was a huge help.
That's how it is with me much of the time. I don't always know why I feel depressed or anxious; sometimes I just do, with no apparent trigger or reason. For me, both are a matter of brain chemistry; both run in my family at least back to great-grandparents. (Probably further, but there's no way to know that for sure.) Because it's a chemical imbalance, medication helps me to some extent, but some of the medications that might help more are off-limits for me because I've had adverse reactions to them or because I can't handle their side effects.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:35 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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FWIW...

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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
I acted out of emotion without taking the time to think it through.
My line of thinking was more "This hurts, this reaction isn't fair *to him*, I should end the relationship so I don't have to deal with the pain and he doesn't have to deal with me acting this way." I'm not sure that's much better.
That said, I agree that my actions were out of proportion to the situation. Knowing that was one of the reasons I posted in the first place, because I do want to change this pattern.

This line of "reasoning" (really, overwhelming emotion, with a smidge of empathy for my partner thrown in) was the reason I recently ended things with my partner Jester, or rather, what amounted to taking an extended break from the relationship --- i.e. because I recognised *I* could no longer deal with my own negative emotions regarding our relationship dynamic AND because I likewise recognised that my out-of-proportion reactions were damaging to HIM as well --- even if I believed my behaviour was in reaction to something hurtful he'd done.


Quote:
I prefer that my conversations with *anyone* be private, because I don't consider it anyone else's business what I'm saying to someone...
For that reason, I will very rarely have a phone conversation with anyone if I know someone is with them, and if Hubby is home when I'm having a conversation, I go into our bedroom and turn on the white noise so he won't overhear, because I feel that the person I'm talking to has as much reason to expect privacy as I do.
I do exactly the same thing, KC, for much the same reasons. Plus, I simply don't like being "watched", on show, or listened to while I'm doing something very personal, such as talking to a partner on the phone, working on my art, using the bathroom, etc. I'm a very private person who doesn't like to be on display.

I tell you this mainly so you know you're not alone.

That said, I recognise that some of the above is not particularly healthy behaviour within the context of an intimate relationship. Like you, I'm trying to work on my knee-jerk emotional reactions... while balancing the needs of my partners with MY own boundaries and need for privacy, space, love, attention and a sense of security and comfort.
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2018, 06:26 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Originally Posted by lunabunny View Post
FWIW...

This line of "reasoning" (really, overwhelming emotion, with a smidge of empathy for my partner thrown in) was the reason I recently ended things with my partner Jester, or rather, what amounted to taking an extended break from the relationship --- i.e. because I recognised *I* could no longer deal with my own negative emotions regarding our relationship dynamic AND because I likewise recognised that my out-of-proportion reactions were damaging to HIM as well --- even if I believed my behaviour was in reaction to something hurtful he'd done.
Exactly. While I acted on impulse out of strong emotion, and hadn't fully thought it through when I first left my house to take his things to his place, the thoughts going along with the emotions as I made the drive were that I didn't want to keep feeling those emotions, I didn't want to keep reacting the way I was reacting, and I didn't believe it was fair to *him* that I reacted that way.

Obviously I can, and *want to*, change those emotions, or at least acknowledge them as valid (because emotions are valid) while putting rational thought into place to contradict any faulty thinking underlying the emotions, and to prevent myself from acting on impulse. And that is something I am working on, and will continue working on. At the same time, though, recognizing that the emotions are problematic for me, and my reactions to them are problematic to him and me, it seemed--and to some extent still seems--like the more prudent thing to do is remove myself from the situation.

To some extent, to me, that seems like avoidance on some level; if I'm not in the situation, I don't have the triggers for those emotions and am therefore not reacting the way I would prefer not to react. I'm not learning how to manage those emotions and reactions if I'm not experiencing the emotions or exhibiting the reactions to begin with, so it feels to me like that's the easy way out and a way of avoiding actually doing the work. At the same time, it might be more fair to my boyfriend.


Quote:
I do exactly the same thing, KC, for much the same reasons. Plus, I simply don't like being "watched", on show, or listened to while I'm doing something very personal, such as talking to a partner on the phone, working on my art, using the bathroom, etc. I'm a very private person who doesn't like to be on display.

I tell you this mainly so you know you're not alone.

That said, I recognise that some of the above is not particularly healthy behaviour within the context of an intimate relationship. Like you, I'm trying to work on my knee-jerk emotional reactions... while balancing the needs of my partners with MY own boundaries and need for privacy, space, love, attention and a sense of security and comfort.
Thank you for letting me know I'm not the only one who thinks that way about privacy. The things you mention in the first paragraph of this quote are pretty much how I think. I don't want someone talking to me through a closed bathroom door, for example, regardless of which of us is on which side of the door. (Unless it's something like "I just fell in the tub" or "We're out of toilet paper in here.") It bugs the hell out of me if Hubby comes up behind me when I'm on the computer and starts reading over my shoulder, whether I'm on here or on Facebook or surfing Wikipedia. It isn't that I feel a need to hide what I'm doing; I just don't consider it anyone else's business unless *I* choose to make it their business.

That balance, between emotions and rationality, between my needs and those of my partners and metamours, etc. is what I'm working for and hoping to reach sooner than later.
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2018, 10:27 PM
Tinwen Tinwen is offline
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KC, out of curiosity, what's your experience with mindfulness-based practices, relaxation, yoga? Did you ever manage to use meditation to your advantage, or does it worsen your anxiety? Have you got favorite spiritual teachers?

Anxiety is a bitch, I also don't quite have a handle on it. But I've noticed that meditation before sleep does help a bit. (I mostly imagine my attention dropping down into my abdomen, relax and let my thoughts run loose without paying too much attention to them... but that's just a method that happens to work for me right now.)

In general, getting out of my head into the body helps - physical activities like free dancing, yoga, and even bdsm. But the more anxious I am the more difficult it is to actually successfully shut off the thoughts and go with the flow. But if I manage to get at least one nice physical evening a week, my general level of agitation is lower.
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Last edited by Tinwen; 07-08-2018 at 10:53 PM.
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2018, 10:33 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Well... I see you write this and I have some questions in blue...
  • He has a habit of being a “caretaker.” (Why caretaker? He takes on people's concerns for himself? Because that's different than caregiver to me.)
  • He has had other partners in the past who had more needs and less ability to manage their issues than you have (Did you get neglected while he was attending to them?)
  • He puts up with a lot (Like what? Is he slow to to terminate unhealthy things?)
  • Usually he waits for them to break up (Do you prefer he be more assertive and end things? Tell you less about them?)

You admit you sometimes overreact, which might ADD to the problem.

But if the problem is about trusting him to manage his other relationships appropriately?

Quote:
But I do *want* to have the trust in him that he won't replace me, even if a metamour does try to talk him into it.
Quote:
the issue is that I don't have enough trust;
What behaviors do you need to do to grow trust?

What behaviors does he need to do grow trust?

In order for you to become more confident in his ability to manage his other relationships appropriately while still treating you well?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 07-08-2018 at 10:40 PM.
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