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  #11  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:49 AM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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I said it before I will say it again Awpti is a sloppy hinge. Stop defending his bad behavior.

He is the core issue in your conflict with your metamour because he keeps adding gasoline to the fire by filling you in on what she says.

Both of my husbands have said stupid shit about the other in a moment of jealousy or stress. I have never relayed what was said to their metamour.

I think Awpti likes the drama between you too and enjoys being fought over.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:25 PM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Default an observation about plot continuity

This is now the tenth thread since 02 Aug 2017 dealing specifically with the deep & ongoing problems of this vee. Aside from expressing angst, I'm not seeing much "trying hard" here: the same old problems remain (maybe presented from a slightly different angle) & no progress is made by anyone.

Here's how I recall it:
Awpti "allowed" Cerpent to effectively "get a little side-action." (Strike one -- that usually doesn't work out well, particularly for beginners at nonmonogamy.) Instead, he went out & found a steady girlfriend, so decidedly NOT what Awpti had agreed to. (Strike two.) Rather than be proactive (make clear to Awpti that things will change going forward OR the old relationship must end OR the new relationship must end), Cerpent has allowed SBF to make all sorts of Romantic assumptions about how wonderful this trainwreck will be once things "settle down" meaning "get ignored long enough they magically disappear. (Strike three.)

Awpti continues to "allow" the game to stagger along. Cerpent puts up with complaints from either side, because he's the center of attention, & doesn't have to expend effort tomaintain that status. SBF comes here to complain, & fends off suggestions that Cerpent is an inept flake, & she instead prefers to discuss ways in which Awpti might be mentally ill because then everyone can heap all the blame on sick Awpti & encourage SBF to feel self-righteous, without requiring either SBF or Cerpent to so much as stop & question their roles in not only CREATING but MAINTAINING this situation.

The OP's situation is emotionally unhealthy, certainly for her but not particularly great for anyone else. As I previously stated,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
It's YOUR expectations that are causing you problems. That's something you CAN fix.
It's difficult for anyone who hasn't kept up with the story to realize the twists that have already gone past, & the lack of progress made by anyone involved. It might be an improvement if any further responses link back to where it's previously been discussed.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:31 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
Here's how I recall it:
Awpti "allowed" Cerpent to effectively "get a little side-action." Instead, he went out & found a steady girlfriend,

Awpti continues to "allow" the game to stagger along. Cerpent puts up with complaints from either side, because he's the center of attention, & doesn't have to expend effort tomaintain that status. SBF comes here to complain, & fends off suggestions that Cerpent is an inept flake, & she instead prefers to discuss ways in which Awpti might be mentally ill

Ravenscroft, while I agree with the meat of your post, you may need to edit as you've got the names wrong:

Awpti is SFB's boyfriend. TheCerpent is Sage's nesting partner.

As far as I am aware, Sage hasn't given Awpti/boyfriend's WIFE a nickname.
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:54 PM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Nah, not gonna edit.

I've browsed the story since its inception. Likely, I'm not the only one losing track of continuity here -- others seem a bit vague at times of the genders involved.

Set aside names: the OP is on a path toward saintly self-martyrdom, the hinge is an inept flake yet feels righteous that he deserves whatever he desires, & the metamour has basis to feel misled & has been so disempowered that there's little left but passive-aggressive digs.

The observations stand: the situation is messed up, & will likely not change because it seems NOBODY involved has the backbone to step up & say "I am responsible for my part in this." Their (for lack of a good word) relationship is something they each feel has been inflicted on them.

To me, that doesn't seem to fit well with any definitions of polyamory.

This leaves few options past impotent whinging. Anyone who really wants to do more -- rather than seek sympathy for ineptitude -- can do more at any time. That has been true for months.

Positive change becomes more difficult with the passage of time. Habits concretize, until eventually there remains only the choice between teeth-gritted toleration & major explosion.

It's coming up on a year. Every bit of sympathy & calm reason offered to the OP mostly just burns time, & therefore undermines opportunity for emotionally healthy progress.
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  #15  
Old 07-01-2018, 01:50 AM
powerpuffgrl1969 powerpuffgrl1969 is offline
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Luna, something you just pointed out really resonated with me. This villainous wife hasn't even been given a NAME in this Neverending mess.

I learned not too long ago, I'm afraid, that feeling miserable over a person does NOT equal a more "true" love. Relationships that are THIS hard and lead to this much pain just aren't worth it.
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  #16  
Old 07-01-2018, 02:49 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
Set aside names: the OP is on a path toward saintly self-martyrdom, the hinge is an inept flake yet feels righteous that he deserves whatever he desires, & the metamour has basis to feel misled & has been so disempowered that there's little left but passive-aggressive digs.

the situation is messed up, & will likely not change because it seems NOBODY involved has the backbone to step up & say "I am responsible for my part in this."
Ravenscroft, I agree with the general theme of your post, above, except for the part in bold:

I have a hard time seeing the metamour/wife being a disempowered victim of this situation, mainly because SHE herself is actively polyamorous and is in a serious, long-term relationship with her male OSO. (i.e. She is married to Awpti and has children with him, but also lives with(?) or at least hosts her OSO in their home on a regular basis).

Yet, according to Sage, does not allow Awpti/Sage the same benefits. She regularly withdraws consent, interferes in their relationship and creates unwarranted drama due to her own inability to accept that what's good for the goose (herself) should also be good for the gander (Awpti). She is a hypocrite and seems unable to manage her own emotions... though admittedly, both Awpti and Sage don't appear willing to stand up to her and advocate for their own relationship.


Quote:
Positive change becomes more difficult with the passage of time. Habits concretize, until eventually there remains only the choice between teeth-gritted toleration & major explosion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuffgrl1969 View Post
Luna, something you just pointed out really resonated with me. This villainous wife hasn't even been given a NAME in this Neverending mess.

I learned not too long ago, I'm afraid, that feeling miserable over a person does NOT equal a more "true" love. Relationships that are THIS hard and lead to this much pain just aren't worth it.
Yes, at some point, something has to give.

I've always believed that if something is just "too hard" and roadblocks keep appearing everywhere you turn, despite one's best efforts, then there's a good chance the (insert appropriate scenario) just isn't meant to be.

It is the reason I've recently de-escalated one of my relationships and am refusing to go out of my way anymore to ensure that relationship remains living and breathing. ONE party cannot be the one always picking up the slack and doing the emotional work for two or more people.
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 50, heteroflexible
Jester: M, 59, straight, primary partner (LD)
Boho: F, 57, heteroflexible, primary partner (LD)

Red: M, 53, straight, ex-husband
Bud: early 20s, son
Lola: early 20s, daughter
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2018, 03:38 AM
Sageflutterby Sageflutterby is offline
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Default I don't use nicknames

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuffgrl1969 View Post
Luna, something you just pointed out really resonated with me. This villainous wife hasn't even been given a NAME in this Neverending mess.

I learned not too long ago, I'm afraid, that feeling miserable over a person does NOT equal a more "true" love. Relationships that are THIS hard and lead to this much pain just aren't worth it.
Awpti has given me permission to name him.
TheCerpent has given me permission to name him.
I don't have permission to name the metamour and feel it would violate her privacy to identify her as her username includes identifiable information.

All of the names I use are traceable to our other social media. It's not about keeping the other person nameless. It's about respecting her privacy.

I don't understand why how frequently I have posted invalidates the progression of the relationship. There's no set timeline or milestone that is identifiable that I can see in polyamory. Emotions don't just go away.

My emotions specifically are hard for me to manage because they aren't logical and when I post, it's because I struggle with managing non-logical, non-black and white intangibles.

I appreciate the post, Kevin, but if putting a journal out of my emotions and posting, and hoping someone else who made it through tough times can lend some advice for my situation other than to indicate that we're all whining spineless people in a miserable relationship, then I'll just stop posting. And I'll be grateful that my partners are entirely different than some of the posters.

I hear stop being spineless and stand up for your boundaries. And then I hear that the metamour is not named out of an effort to diminish her. It is because I do not diminish her needs that I have altered my expectations and actions over the course of over a year and a half. And if there really are emotional or mental health issues in play, while I have no desire to be a caretaker, it is reasonable to work around what might be considered a disability in some respects.

But I guess someone might as well just fire off getting a kick off being a martyr, but I'm not. I don't get off on being a martyr. I just don't believe I can get the community I want if I don't buckle down and work rather than abandon my relationships. I have no right to complain when I don't have the community I want if I don't put in the work and that's the mindset I have always adopted. I have always believed that when relationships are tough that partners are there to support each other, that's what makes family family.

Thank you for the advice this community has given me. I'm not interested in replies that label me and my partners as whiners and spineless. Galagirl and Dagferi and Kevin, thank you for your insight. I have found it the most helpful.
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2018, 01:51 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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No you need to realize a triangle shaped peg is new going to fit a round shaped slot. No amount of manipulation is going to get it to fit.

You either need to accept that or find at round shaped peg to fit that hole.

Sometimes we do not get want we want or need out of a relationship no matter how hard we work on it. Look a wonderful relationship takes tending and care to grow but it should not be hard or painful and one partner should not be doing all the work and sacrifices.

Just becaise we love someone does not meam they are a good fit in our lives.
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2018, 04:52 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunabunny View Post
Ravenscroft, while I agree with the meat of your post, you may need to edit as you've got the names wrong:

Awpti is SFB's boyfriend. TheCerpent is Sage's nesting partner.

As far as I am aware, Sage hasn't given Awpti/boyfriend's WIFE a nickname.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageflutterby View Post
Awpti has given me permission to name him.
TheCerpent has given me permission to name him.
I don't have permission to name the metamour and feel it would violate her privacy to identify her as her username includes identifiable information.

All of the names I use are traceable to our other social media. It's not about keeping the other person nameless. It's about respecting her privacy.
Quote:
And then I hear that the metamour is not named out of an effort to diminish her. It is because I do not diminish her needs that I have altered my expectations and actions over the course of over a year and a half

I can't speak for anybody else here, but when I corrected the names in Ravenscoft's post and pointed out that you haven't given wife/meta a nickname, I was in no way implying you did this purposely to diminish her.

I also think you've got something wrong about the way THIS forum operates:

User-names/nicknames are simply an "identifier" so that other posters/forum members can better follow your story, and understand the trajectory of yours (or any OP's) thread.

The name chosen could be literally anything - from a single letter, to a colour, plant or personal attribute of the person concerned - and need not be one used on other forums or social media sites - in fact, it's usually better if the nickname is unique to Polyamory.com rather than one used elsewhere, for the reasons you yourself have specified, Sageflutterby. That way, you do not need permission and are in no danger of accidentally identifying her.

Quote:
I don't understand why how frequently I have posted invalidates the progression of the relationship. There's no set timeline or milestone that is identifiable that I can see in polyamory. Emotions don't just go away.

My emotions specifically are hard for me to manage because they aren't logical and when I post, it's because I struggle with managing non-logical, non-black and white intangibles.

I appreciate the post, Kevin, but if putting a journal out of my emotions and posting, and hoping someone else who made it through tough times can lend some advice for my situation other than to indicate that we're all whining spineless people in a miserable relationship, then I'll just stop posting. And I'll be grateful that my partners are entirely different than some of the posters.
Frequency of posting doesn't invalidate anything - however, when the problems remain much the same over time, with little progress seemingly made, it calls into question whether any of the advice being offered is really being "heard", seriously considered or making any kind of impact on the way anyone in the situation chooses to operate.

In almost every case, the people on this forum offer constructive advice from their own perspective - and, as we're all people with differing values and life experiences - suggestions will tend to vary accordingly. You need not accept the advice of everyone who posts if you strenuously disagree. But what I can say is that posters (from what I can tell) are coming from a place of integrity and a genuine desire to help.

Many of us (you included, most likely) have had experience with real world friends in long-term but very troubled relationships, who come to us to cry on our shoulder on and may regularly ask for advice but who don't seem to ever make any headway. After initially showing sympathy and making practical suggestions to improve their situation, it can become frustrating when nothing ever seems to change over time.

We hear "I can't leave, because---" (a.) I LOVE him, b.) the children will be devastated c.) we share financial responsibilities d.) she's got health problems --- or any number of "good" reasons. Thing is, these reasons can drag on for literally years, with no improvement in the quality of the relationship, but with everyone becoming more and more defeated.

Those offering advice here, do so with integrity and - within the scope of our limited knowledge of your particular personal situation - speak from a place of honesty regarding what it is you need to do in order to improve your quality of life, both in the context of this relationship with Awpti and outside of it.

There is only so much we can say. If it's not to your taste, you are free ignore it and focus on those who ARE offering you palatable solutions - but be self-aware enough to realise that you may be cherry-picking only that advice you WANT to hear.

Since you say you often start an OP with the intention of "writing out" your thoughts in order to better understand what's going on in your life, and your emotions, at any given time... another alternative may be to simply post these entries in the "Blog" section.
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 50, heteroflexible
Jester: M, 59, straight, primary partner (LD)
Boho: F, 57, heteroflexible, primary partner (LD)

Red: M, 53, straight, ex-husband
Bud: early 20s, son
Lola: early 20s, daughter
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2018, 05:06 PM
powerpuffgrl1969 powerpuffgrl1969 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageflutterby View Post
Awpti has given me permission to name him.
TheCerpent has given me permission to name him.
I don't have permission to name the metamour and feel it would violate her privacy to identify her as her username includes identifiable information.

All of the names I use are traceable to our other social media. It's not about keeping the other person nameless. It's about respecting her privacy.
As Lunabunny said, it's actually a VERY BAD idea to put nicknames on here that can be traced to any account. I wasn't commenting on the fact that you didn't give her an "identifiable" nickname; I was just pointing out that you only refer to your OSO's wife as "his wife" or "metamor." I can understand why you wouldn't be giving her a nickname if you have given traceable nicknames to others in your life but that is, I reiterate, a bad practice.


Of course you can, as you see fit, continue to be treated badly. Maybe you will eventually get tired of this and end it, or your metamor will put the dreaded "veto" on you and that will be that. I am really not trying to be mean; I have kept myself in relationships where I believed the agony I constantly felt was proof that this is real love. It's not.

As Lunabunny stated, you seem to be "cherry-picking" advice, which is also your right. Feel free to take the technical steps to ignore my comments; I don't know how to do it, but I'm sure it's in the FAQ.

I do wish you the best.

Last edited by powerpuffgrl1969; 07-05-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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