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  #11  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:02 AM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is offline
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Originally Posted by icesong View Post
The more I think about this, honestly, the less I think it's unreasonable - you're not actually making a commitment TO become entangled, you're just making a commitment to actually devote enough time to try to. That said, the "now or never" seems a little ridiculous - like there ought to be room that if you dated casually for a while you could renegotiate that - but at the same time she may be a person that once she's walled off a certain type of feeling *can't* go back. It's similar, I suppose, to how some people like myself almost never develop attraction for people who are already friends. Acquaintances, sure. But if the attraction doesn't develop at the same time as the friendship it's probably not going to.

I guess my issue is that I've never had to formally devote time to become entangled. Usually the fact that we want to spend that time together means that we find ways to make it happen and when we can't, it sucks but that's part of what builds the feelings.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:18 AM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is offline
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Longer reply to everyone.

I think I've discovered why we are coming from different places. It turns out Jules was partially right. Hybrid (that's what I'll call her), has mostly had experience with people in quite busy and structured polycule. People who really lack time and resources to maintain the level of relationship they ideally want outside of their most entangled dyad. Some of that has been complicated with issues around poly with the most entangled couple. The typical things we see in here.

I don't have either of those issues in my life ATM and haven't for some time. Therefore, I can be more trusting in the process. For example, I know I can be really "serious" with someone and consider them a life partner even if logistics obstructs our time together.

That's because I've had the experience of partners who truly value our relationship and want to have more freedom to be with each other and knowing that they genuinely want it makes those hard times manageable. Those partners have had partners who work with the whole group to make it happen because we all want the same things for just as many selfish as altruistic reasons.

On a more basic level, Hybrid's past relationships have been with people who arent as able or willing to host or leave their homes for extended periods. There hasn't been as much room for group socializing or when there was room for that, there were rules about who went as whose date or PDAs. So time together was always about hunting down those times when you can be alone and when you couldn't be alone, you didn't see each other.

One thing this has made me understand is that I'm probably more KTP than I thought though I sometimes avoid that term for myself because MY experience with people heavily into KTP is that it is used more as a control or coping mechanism than idle desire. Almost an ultimatum: "if you don't like me enough than it just won't work with my partner". But there is more than enough scope for me to leave here for a few days even if one of my partners is staying here. Both Jules and myself have partners who stay in our homes for extended periods when they are here and it makes sense for them to be based in this part of the country. However, we all want it to be on the condition that we all have freedom to come and go (alone) as we please (within reason of course). So even though Titi is here, I can go and stay elsewhere for a few days (outside of a pandemic).

So these issues that Hybrid has had in the past are not going to be an issue here. The question now is if I'm willing to commit to what she needs to trust that or whether I should just show her why it isn't going to be an issue and operate as I normally would which would not be committing to formally 'try' to build a typically serious relationship or however you want to label it but just find our own ground and rejoice in that. I think, from experience, that's the best mindset to have. You can end up rejecting a lot of good, healthy relationships JUST because they do not look how you envisaged they would, or should.

It might turn out that we only really have time for each other a few weekends a year but that doesn't mean we have to consider each other casual. There are other ways to cement someone as a life partner and there are plenty of relationships which have just as much love without those heavy labels and expectations.

Part of me does want to go through the process of gaining trust by doing things how she likely need them to be but experience tells me that it can be laborious and eventually ruin what good feelings you do have when you feel obliged or even just stressed out trying to stick to your word.
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2020, 12:29 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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It's understandable that past relationship experiences can color one's expectations of new relationships, ability to trust, etc.

That said?

Quote:
The question now is if I'm willing to commit to what she needs to trust that or whether I should just show her why it isn't going to be an issue and operate as I normally would which would not be committing to formally 'try' to build a typically serious relationship or however you want to label it but just find our own ground and rejoice in that. I think, from experience, that's the best mindset to have. You can end up rejecting a lot of good, healthy relationships JUST because they do not look how you envisaged they would, or should.
I agree with you. Just be how YOU naturally are. It will either pan out or not.

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  #14  
Old 07-28-2020, 02:36 PM
icesong icesong is offline
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Originally Posted by SEASONEDpolyAgain View Post
For example, I know I can be really "serious" with someone and consider them a life partner even if logistics obstructs our time together.
It's an interesting idea - I just personally don't feel I can hit *life* partner without some level of consistent time together, and if logistics get in the way of that they're gonna be someone that I might love passionately, as a comet, but it's not going to feel like a *partner*. Of course I'm pretty unwilling to consider long distance (more than an hour or two) as well, for similar reasons.

For me, lack of consistent touch leads to ... lack of emotional intimacy. That was the worst part of the first part of quarantine, when I wasn't seeing Artist - and I'm not sure that that a less established relationship of mine could/would have survived that. But that's just how I experience intimacy, and everyone else's mileage does of course vary.
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2020, 03:24 PM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is offline
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Originally Posted by icesong View Post
It's an interesting idea - I just personally don't feel I can hit *life* partner without some level of consistent time together, and if logistics get in the way of that they're gonna be someone that I might love passionately, as a comet, but it's not going to feel like a *partner*. Of course I'm pretty unwilling to consider long distance (more than an hour or two) as well, for similar reasons.

For me, lack of consistent touch leads to ... lack of emotional intimacy. That was the worst part of the first part of quarantine, when I wasn't seeing Artist - and I'm not sure that that a less established relationship of mine could/would have survived that. But that's just how I experience intimacy, and everyone else's mileage does of course vary.
That brings up an interesting conversation about both consistency and time.

Take Titi, she's nomadic. She spends time around the world anywhere there is a black community and/or human rights issues that she's working in. However, she consistently makes sure that whatever she is doing, seeing me is a priority. Whether that is just taking a connecting flight near to me and spending a few hours because that's all time permits or actively shifting things around to spend extended time. Like now. She decided to stay a bit longer as she hasn't been here for a long time and we have a new freedom in our personal relationship which we are enjoying.

So in that sense, consistency is present in our relationship. When she is away, we connect every day and at least once a week, have some sort of "date" where we connect at the same time. This is something that we were more rigid about including in our "things that must be done" as time progressed and our relationship naturally became something we wanted to not only sustain, but allow to grow into whatever it turns out to be.

So I too need consistency, but that takes the shape of the other person consistently staying on the same page as I am and wanting things from life and each other that complement the growth of our relationship.

I guess Titi could be a comet but the love and support we want to express to each other means that we are comet *partners*. I'd say that's because we had all the elements of friendship alongside romantic and sexual interest in each other. Generally speaking, a partner for me is someone where I have all of those things: friendship, sexual intimacy and romantic desire. And yes, those things are sustained through consistency in our relationship. Consistent respect, interest, lust, companionship and camaraderie.

With more regular in person contact, that process from date/friend to partner can be accelerated but it doesn't increase the value of those relationships over the ones where logistics meant we got there at a slower pace. And even if they don't get all the way there, it doesn't mean the relationship is less valuable or can't be long term.

I think that's another difference between myself and Hybrid.

PS:

Titi said that she just knows when she is on that page with someone. She has people who she doesn't see for months or even years and although it would be cool to see them, she isn't going to jump over mountains JUST to see them like she does with me and vice versa. And they are also fine with that and some would even be uncomfortable if she regularly did that because it would signify that she prioritizes their relationship in a way that they do not want to reciprocate.

Those people are people she would still call friends even though she doesn't have to any more (see my blog post on Titi for info). With me, I'm a partner and (the desire for) inperson contact with each other is the main way we connect as a couple. The fact that we are on the same page about balancing our wider lives with our relationship goals and ideally, we would both love to have teleportation powers so we were not obstructed by logistics like distance and time difference, is what makes the times we cannot see each bearable. Not only bearable, but it sort of fuels our passion and intimacy.
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:20 PM
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AndrewS29 AndrewS29 is offline
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