Expected to hang out with metamour(s)

wijxixj

New member
I was first thinking that this was a post for the general poly board but the post is also about things specific to my situation. I'm interested in both general answers to the question and advice on my specific situation.

To what extent is it reasonable to be expected to spend time/hang out with one's metamour(s)?

My partner has besides me another partner, both of these relationships she values highly, and she would really like for us all to hang out together more than we do now. I'm not completely comfortable with this however and think that I'm reasonable in this position.

This has potential to be damaging to my relationship with my partner so I wonder what your views are on how much one can expect one's metamours to hang out together and to what extent one can allow one's (potential) insecurities about a metamour dictate this?


Some relevant background on my situation is that there's some bad blood between me and my metamour stemming from a heavy (personal) situation that was beyond anyone's control but which affected me greatly. So there are definitely insecurities on my part that I'm/we're working out.
We are also friends since before meeting our partner so we do have context where we hang out (that also includes our partner).

My position on this is in short that I'm reasonable in requesting that we hang out without the metamour in contexts where I'm not comfortable doing so but that there are contexts where this request is unreasonable (for a crude example of the different contexts, say, that it is reasonable to exclude the metamour from a dinner party but completely unreasonable to exclude the metamour from a common acquaintance's birthday party).

Me requesting to not include the metamour happens to the expense of my partner and the metamour but including the metamour in certain contexts happens on my expense. I think the balance between this has generally worked out but we have had two recent grey area situations where I've felt reasonable in requesting not having my metamour present but that has not landed so well with my metamour and/or partner. So I'm struggling with to what extent I should adjust (something I want to do but has potential short-term negative effects on my well-being) and to what extent my partner should just accept this. Thus prompting this post.
 
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I hear you on that situation. I am too in a situation where I would prefer not to meet my meta, but it's just not practical given life circumstances.

"Reasonable" is not really a measure you can reliably use in these kind of situations -- exactly because people will differ in their take on it.
You have preferences. Your partner has preferences. Your meta has preferences.

Sometimes putting your dislikes aside would make your entire life situation so much easier, but you're incapable of it nonetheless. Than you have to stand your ground.
Sometimes you don't want to put your dislikes aside. Then you always have the option to cancel the 'date' that turned out not to be private. Yes, that means less time with your partner, but it also means the quality you wish for.
Sometimes you just gather all your ability to be a nice person and spend a day with meta because stuff has to be done.

It's an ongoing negotiation, that has to be done anew in every situation where consensus hasn't been reached yet, or anytime preferences change. And these situations will arise from time to time.
 
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My husbands go years without seeing or interacting with each other. They just are not friendly with each other.

When they do find themselves in each others company they act like mature adults.

While I would like them to hang out more it is not what they want so I do not force the issue.
 
Let me repeat back in my own words so I know you got it how you mean it. You correct me if I am wrong, ok?

BACKGROUND

  • I am in a V.
  • I was friends with my meta before we met our partner, the hinge.
  • Hinge wants us all to hang out in a group more than we do now.
  • I am not comfortable with this. I think I am being reasonable why.
    • There is bad blood between me and my former friend/now meta. It was beyond anyone's control but it affected me greatly. Meta and I are working that out.
    • I think it reasonable to want to be alone with hinge if it's a movie date between me and hinge. I don't want the meta along for that.
    • I think it's reasonable if it's hinge's bday party that meta be around. It's their other partner and it is a party, not a private date night.
  • Those seem pretty clear cut.
  • Most of the time the balance of sharing time with hinge and doing things in trio works out.

PROBLEM


  • Recently there were two events that were more "grey area."
  • I thought it was reasonable to request it be just me and hinge. Hinge and meta did not take it well.
  • Am I supposed to adjust? Because I don't want to do it since it would have potential short-term negative effects on my well being.
  • Should my partner just accept that I'm not up for hanging out as a group in those occasions at this time?


Is that it? If so?

Well, you made a request for it to be just you and hinge.

Hinge can say "Yes, I won't invite meta" or "No, I want to invite meta."

Then you can say "Alright, let's go" or "Alright, go with meta. I'll sit this one out."

They might be disappointed you don't want to hang out more often in a trio. But your consent to do stuff belongs to you. I think your well being could be your first priority. You do your self care FIRST, so you can operate from a full tank of gas and not spread too thin or running dry. THEN you can gift your help to meeting other people's reasonable and rational requests. They could do the same thing.

You are being civil/polite enough attending the group things like bday party. You don't have to be up for EVERYTHING.

Cannot force you to go faster in healing whatever bad blood faster than you can go, right? Esp if doing so would ding you. Why would you ding your own self/mental health just to be at some social event the hinge wants all to be at? That's not reasonable. :confused:

If most of the time the balance of time works out? Don't sweat this.

Be ok requesting and hinge saying "No, I want to ask meta too." Hinge is allowed to state what they want. Just as you are allowed to sit this one out if you don't want to be doing this (whatever it is) in trio at this time.

Be ok with them being disappointed it's not a trio thing this time. They have to do their emotional management. You don't have to do it for them. Not your responsibility. They can just go on to the social event as a duo and have a nice time. What's the big deal?

Galagirl
 
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Well, you made a request for it to be just you and hinge.

Hinge can say "Yes, I won't invite meta" or "No, I want to invite meta."

Then you can say "Alright, let's go" or "Alright, go with meta. I'll sit this one out."
Yes. I've only had a few trouble cases with this approach, and that's in case where:
a) Communication failed, i.e. I didn't know in advance Meta would be there.
---- answer: It mostly doesn't happen anymore since the hinge 'got it'.

b) The thing to attend was personally important to me (or the other way round), and Meta's presence would have ruined it, yet we both wanted to go. (example: tantric and personal development seminars where people get emotionally vulnerable)
---- answer: This can get really uncomfortable. Conflict resolution necessary. But most times a compromise can be reached with understanding what each person wants out of the situation. Takes some vulnerability though.

c) stuff has to be done
(example: the hinge has a country house with a garden and that's work)
---- answer: mostly it's better to plan well and take turns, sometimes it's better to work together and be an adult about the interaction

There is one long-term conflict that we really haven't been able to resolve, and that's the issue of cohabitation with the hinge. That's a problem area, because living apart isn't that great for the 'third', everyone living together doesn't seem possible due to the mismatch, and changing homes doesn't seem feasible to the hinge.
Also, some future plans are impossible to make if there's some competition or bad blood between the metamours. Not a good situation to be in. Though I love my partner deeply, I'm still unclear whether or not it will tear us apart.
 
Let me repeat back in my own words so I know you got it how you mean it. You correct me if I am wrong, ok?

BACKGROUND

  • I am in a V.
  • I was friends with my meta before we met our partner, the hinge.
  • Hinge wants us all to hang out in a group more than we do now.
  • I am not comfortable with this. I think I am being reasonable why.
    • There is bad blood between me and my former friend/now meta. It was beyond anyone's control but it affected me greatly. Meta and I are working that out.
    • I think it reasonable to want to be alone with hinge if it's a movie date between me and hinge. I don't want the meta along for that.
    • I think it's reasonable if it's hinge's bday party that meta be around. It's their other partner and it is a party, not a private date night.
  • Those seem pretty clear cut.
  • Most of the time the balance of sharing time with hinge and doing things in trio works out.

PROBLEM


  • Recently there were two events that were more "grey area."
  • I thought it was reasonable to request it be just me and hinge. Hinge and meta did not take it well.
  • Am I supposed to adjust? Because I don't want to do it since it would have potential short-term negative effects on my well being.
  • Should my partner just accept that I'm not up for hanging out as a group in those occasions at this time?


Is that it? If so?

That was accurate of my situation! I will just edit the examples of alone/trio contexts to more accurately reflect my position. They are not taken from reality and I intended the examples to be more grey area. The movie night would be a small gathering and the birthday party would be for a common acquaintance. Your interpretation could make hinge and metamour seem really unreasonable, which is not my intention.

Well, you made a request for it to be just you and hinge.

Hinge can say "Yes, I won't invite meta" or "No, I want to invite meta."

Then you can say "Alright, let's go" or "Alright, go with meta. I'll sit this one out."

Be ok requesting and hinge saying "No, I want to ask meta too." Hinge is allowed to state what they want. Just as you are allowed to sit this one out if you don't want to be doing this (whatever it is) in trio at this time.

Be ok with them being disappointed it's not a trio thing this time. They have to do their emotional management. You don't have to do it for them. Not your responsibility. They can just go on to the social event as a duo and have a nice time. What's the big deal?

Galagirl

In the grey area situations (and perhaps others that I don't know about) there has been an asymmetry in that my preferences have had some implicit priority over the metamour's, and even my partners preferences. In that it wasn't situations I could just sit out easily (like the gathering was at my place (that I share with people acquainted with the metamour) or that I was visiting from out of town and the plans were made beforehand). My partner might worry that this priority will carry over to other situations when the special circumstances aren't there.
This is actually a really helpful realization for me. Thank you so much!
 
I split my time 50/50 between two seperate homes with both husbands. I live with both just not under the same roof. It is no different than being married to someone who travels for work.
 
Hello wijxixj,

Technically, the rule in polyamory in general is that you are under no obligation to be around your metamour/s, ever. However, your situation is a special case, in that your partner wants one thing (kitchen table poly), and you want something else (parallel poly). This means, you and your partner will have to work out a compromise, whatever you can both stand, or, one of you will get just what you want and the other will suffer, or, you will find that you are incompatible and break up. I don't know what will happen with the two of you, but my recommendation is to try to work out a compromise, it seems like there is hope of that working out. In other words, try to divide up those gray areas so that you are hanging out with your metamour some of the times, but not all of the times.

That is my recommendation, even though technically, you are not obligated to do that.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
To what extent is it reasonable to be expected to spend time/hang out with one's metamour(s)?

In my opinion, it's not reasonable to expect.

Some folks want kitchen table poly.

But everyone needs to consent to it.

If there isn't consent, then it's not reasonable.

I generally concur with GalaGirl:
Hinge can say "Yes, I won't invite meta" or "No, I want to invite meta."

Then you can say "Alright, let's go" or "Alright, go with meta. I'll sit this one out."

They might be disappointed you don't want to hang out more often in a trio. But your consent to do stuff belongs to you. I think your well being could be your first priority. You do your self care FIRST, so you can operate from a full tank of gas and not spread too thin or running dry. THEN you can gift your help to meeting other people's reasonable and rational requests. They could do the same thing.


---

In my specific situation, Neutron really wants to be able to spend time with me and Mila together. For a long time I just did not want that, and Neutron didn't push it. And then there came a point where I warmed up to the idea, but when the three of us hung out and it just felt forced and uncomfortable.

Afterwords, I had a realization that the situation was similar to a lot of triad advice I've seen floating around (even though I'm not interested in dating Mila): in order to spend time together as a trio, I wanted to form a better 1-1 friendship with Mila. I reached out to Mila, and posed the question as a "hey, if you want to do more kitchen-table-poly then let's hang out 1-1 sometime, but if you want to continue parallel-poly that's also totally cool."

She was excited about hanging out! So the two of us met up for drinks, and got to know each other a bit more. Turns out Mila is super cool, and we agreed we wanted to spend more time together. But our schedules are both so packed and opposite, we haven't been able to make it work since.

Recently, me, Neutron, and Mila were all at a mutual friend's birthday party, and it was actually really cool. Even though Mila and I aren't close, it felt comfortable to share space.

---

It sounds like your situation is different, especially since you knew your meta before she became your meta. But I thought it might still be worth offering perspective. *shrug*
 
The thing to attend was personally important to me (or the other way round), and Meta's presence would have ruined it, yet we both wanted to go. (example: tantric and personal development seminars where people get emotionally vulnerable)

One of the fundamental principles of tantra as an ancient Eastern practice is learning to accept reality as it is, not as you'd like it to be, and sitting with discomfort in order to go through it instead of avoiding it. With practice, the uncomfortable things become more and more tolerable.

It's 100% reasonable for you to never want to see your metamour if you don't want to. But that only means that can you choose not to go places when you know they'll be there. Trying to control their access to your shared partner or places they want to go together is not reasonable, nor is it kind and loving to your partner.

I don't think that has to ruin any relationships though. If your partner is mature, they can learn to handle the disappointment of not spending time with their two loves at the same time.
 
One of the fundamental principles of tantra as an ancient Eastern practice is learning to accept reality as it is, not as you'd like it to be, and sitting with discomfort in order to go through it instead of avoiding it. With practice, the uncomfortable things become more and more tolerable.
You are exactly right but that's a gradual process and I had a different goal with the course.
It's 100% reasonable for you to never want to see your metamour if you don't want to. But that only means that can you choose not to go places when you know they'll be there. Trying to control their access to your shared partner or places they want to go together is not reasonable, nor is it kind and loving to your partner.
Neither is trying to join in on an activity that's personally important to someone if you know then they would have to skip it. I don't think asking for privacy in this case was wrong. She needed the same favor just a few months later, so the deal worked out quite balanced.

You're judging me harshly, SchrödingerCat.
 
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I split my time 50/50 between two separate homes with both husbands. I live with both just not under the same roof. It is no different than being married to someone who travels for work.
I know about your situation, Dagferi. Yet I'm afraid not every hinge can pull it off.
 
I split my time 50/50 between two seperate homes with both husbands. I live with both just not under the same roof. It is no different than being married to someone who travels for work.

I don't know how you do it, honestly. I have vowed never to have a serious relationship with someone who travels again because my first marriage crumbled partly because of this, partly because of other reasons.

I wouldn't want to keep stuff at different places or be moving around all the time. But it's cool that you have found ways to make it work.

I live with Henry, and since I don't drive, people generally come to see me. So they have to at least be willing to be polite to him and perhaps occasionally chat. They don't have to be friends or anything, but it would be much less awkward if casual hangouts work.
 
You're judging me harshly, SchrödingerCat.

It wasn't my intention for you to feel judged and I'm sorry if my words came across as an attack on your character.

You posed the thread question in terms of how much time you should be expected to spend with your metamour, but your examples are more about how often you and your metamour may exclude one another from group activities. These are very different questions.

You admitted that it's unreasonable to exclude the metamour from a shared acquaintance's birthday party, but you believe it's reasonable to exclude the metamour from a public event. I'm having trouble with the disconnect here. Isn't a public event even more "open" than a private birthday party?

I agree that it's perfectly acceptable to make a request that the metamour not attend a workshop that you really want to take. But if they deny the request, it's not true that you "have to skip it." You'd be choosing not to go. You don't have to give away your power and victimize yourself by believing the actions of another person force you to behave a certain way. You have just as much autonomy as the metamour.

I don't think asking for privacy in this case was wrong. She needed the same favor just a few months later, so the deal worked out quite balanced.

Was it a "deal" though? Did you know about the months-later event when you made the request, and agree not to attend the other event in exchange for her not attending the tantra workshop? Or did she use her sacrifice as leverage to convince you not to attend the second event?

And more importantly, where does the shared partner fit into this deal? You and the metamour are effectively deciding which partner the hinge gets to bring to which events. If I were the shared partner, I would feel like my own autonomy was being taken away.

This has potential to be damaging to my relationship with my partner so I wonder what your views are on how much one can expect one's metamours to hang out together and to what extent one can allow one's (potential) insecurities about a metamour dictate this?

I want to come back to this. There's nothing "wrong" about requesting someone not attend an event. But is turning your shared partner into the rope of a tug-of-war likely to produce the connection you desire in the relationship?

Is it possible for you and the metamour to work through your bad blood, maybe with some group counselling? You say the situation was outside anyone's control and that you were friends before. What do you need to forgive this person and begin moving on so you can be in the same room together without feeling like your emotional safety is at risk?
 
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It wasn't my intention for you to feel judged and I'm sorry if my words came across as an attack on your character.

You posed the thread question in terms of how much time you should be expected to spend with your metamour, but your examples are more about how often you and your metamour may exclude one another from group activities. These are very different questions.

You admitted that it's unreasonable to exclude the metamour from a shared acquaintance's birthday party, but you believe it's reasonable to exclude the metamour from a public event. I'm having trouble with the disconnect here. Isn't a public event even more "open" than a private birthday party?

I agree that it's perfectly acceptable to make a request that the metamour not attend a workshop that you really want to take. But if they deny the request, it's not true that you "have to skip it." You'd be choosing not to go. You don't have to give away your power and victimize yourself by believing the actions of another person force you to behave a certain way. You have just as much autonomy as the metamour.



Was it a "deal" though? Did you know about the months-later event when you made the request, and agree not to attend the other event in exchange for her not attending the tantra workshop? Or did she use her sacrifice as leverage to convince you not to attend the second event?

And more importantly, where does the shared partner fit into this deal? You and the metamour are effectively deciding which partner the hinge gets to bring to which events. If I were the shared partner, I would feel like my own autonomy was being taken away.



I want to come back to this. There's nothing "wrong" about requesting someone not attend an event. But is turning your shared partner into the rope of a tug-of-war likely to produce the connection you desire in the relationship?

Is it possible for you and the metamour to work through your bad blood, maybe with some group counselling? You say the situation was outside anyone's control and that you were friends before. What do you need to forgive this person and begin moving on so you can be in the same room together without feeling like your emotional safety is at risk?

Schrodinger, I think you may be confusing Tinwen with the person, wijxixj, that started this thread.
 
I find this situation tricky. It's a shame everyone can't be on the same page, like Dagferi and her husbands.

My nesting partner and I also struggle with this. Her bf has been with her for 5 years, but he ALWAYS hosts her for visits. He's not very sociable. He is introverted and work wears him out. All he is up for in his free time is Pixi. He has visits with his parents, brother, a cousin, an uncle maybe two or three times a year, and that causes him anxiety.

He and Pixi started out very slowly. The first year they saw each other 2 overnights a month. Then he needed to take a break altogether since it was too much for him. After a year's break he got back in touch. Then they started 4 overnights most months, once a week. Over the following years they've slowly increased visits until now she sees him 2 or 3 overnights a week.

And I've only met him 3 times. Last winter he came to a party of a friend of ours. Neutral territory. Then in April he came here to our house, to comfort Pixi when her dog died. Finally just 2 weeks ago, she and I were on vacation and he came along for one day of it. Pixi has been sad all these years to not get to have both her lovers together with her at once, and I wasn't real happy about it either. But we both understood it was almost a handicap of her bf's, and we had to respect it. But we sure were thrilled that we got that one day of vacation together as a V!
 
To what extent is it reasonable to be expected to spend time/hang out with one's metamour(s)?

No extent whatsoever.

I am an adult human who has finite time and energy. That time and energy is spent in precisely the way I decide it will be spent.
 
You posed the thread question in terms of how much time you should be expected to spend with your metamour, but your examples are more about how often you and your metamour may exclude one another from group activities. These are very different questions.
You're indeed confusing me with OP. The OP got the (excellent) advice of 'you can always choose not to attend'. Since I have experience with a similar situation, I was giving an example of the very few times this approach didn't work for me personally. I was showing there are limits, although there are few.

I agree that it's perfectly acceptable to make a request that the metamour not attend a workshop that you really want to take. But if they deny the request, it's not true that you "have to skip it." You'd be choosing not to go. You don't have to give away your power and victimize yourself by believing the actions of another person force you to behave a certain way. You have just as much autonomy as the metamour.

Was it a "deal" though? Did you know about the months-later event when you made the request, and agree not to attend the other event in exchange for her not attending the tantra workshop? Or did she use her sacrifice as leverage to convince you not to attend the second event?

And more importantly, where does the shared partner fit into this deal? You and the metamour are effectively deciding which partner the hinge gets to bring to which events. If I were the shared partner, I would feel like my own autonomy was being taken away.
Right. It wasn't a deal in a narrow kind of way, one workshop for another. The first time was a request from me. I guess the second time it was her request. I was happy to be able to return the favour. I wouldn't say she 'used it as a leverage', because I didn't sense any manipulation involved. She needed that privacy to do her work.
It is a deal in that it's ok to make these kind of requests, with caution, as exceptions. It's a deal in that we've reached a new level of understanding by seeing that this is a sensitive topic that has to be dealt with every time anew, while balance has to be watched longterm.

The shared partner, of course, he has input. Actually, he has the most leverage if he decides to exercise it - it's kind of shitty for him to say which one of us he wants to attend with, but if he does, that's a very significant opinion in the discussion.
edit: I repeat, most times there is not that much conflict, no autonomy restricted. It's either the hinge inviting one of us, or one of us inviting the hinge, and the other one staying out of the date. Also, the hinge has most decision-making power if it's, like, a couple event. It's only more-or-less unique AND highly intimate AND important to both me and Meta events (those we would also attend without the hinge partner) that produce a conflict that has to be resolved between the two of us. Not that many there. So I don't think he comes short.
 
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No, you don't need to hang out with the metamour.

Sometimes, people have unreasonable expectations fueled by their own wishes. My boyfriend always wanted kitchen style poly. His wife apparently (?) wanted it.

Neither of them ever seemed to see the glaring problem: that his wife and I had nothing in common. She is knowledgeable about and interested in exactly two subjects--neither of which I want to talk about or take part in. She would likewise be bored stiff by anything in my life. She's not interested in the things I do, either.

I'd already spent some social time with her and see that she's incapable of relating to people outside of her own small world. To this day I'm curious what either of them THOUGHT we'd be talking about and bonding over.
 
... She is knowledgeable about and interested in exactly two subjects--neither of which I want to talk about or take part in. She would likewise be bored stiff by anything in my life. She's not interested in the things I do, either.

I'd already spent some social time with her and see that she's incapable of relating to people outside of her own small world. To this day I'm curious what either of them THOUGHT we'd be talking about and bonding over.

Several years ago, when Dude was briefly seeing Jane2, I ran into this as well. Me, MrS, Jane2, and Dude all went out to dinner. It was pleasant and civil (and the food was EXCELLENT) but she and I had absolutely ZERO in common. It takes a lot of effort for me to stay engaged in a conversation that I am not enthusiastic about - my "social" fuel tank is quite small :rolleyes:

The next social occasion we were at, another dinner at another restaurant with a few other friends, was just as uninspiring. The boys invited her back to the house to listen to some specific type of music (an interest that they have in common with her, that I don't share). I went to bed early. Some may view this as rude...but I refuse to "entertain" people I didn't invite to my home - I would rather read in bed.:cool:
 
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