Wide Awake

Re (from FullofLove1052):
"I have developed an aversion to my therapy. I feel stifled when I sit in an office and talk about my feelings, thoughts, opinions, etc."

I've multiple times reached points in my life where I had to realize, "You know, I don't think this therapy is getting me any further than I already was anymore. Time to move on."

You know the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." You are feeling fine in your life right now, and things are going well. Maintainance therapy is all well and good but IMO not necessary, especially if you long to spend those hours nurturing your life and relationships in other ways.

My vote is, take a break from counseling for awhile. (Make sure Matt's okay with that of course.) If you (and Matt) continue to feel fine, and all's going well with the family in general, then don't worry about going back to the counselor any time soon. This isn't a slam against your counselor, it's just an acknowledgement that now may not be the period in your life when counseling is needed.

While they don't do it maliciously, I think sometimes counselors have an open-ended plan with their clients. There will be no time when the counselor will say, "I think you're doing well and you and I can probably cease making any new appointments for the time being." After all, well first of all *something* can *always* be done to improve life and relationships, so hey why not continue the counseling, and second, hey if the patient gets well then the counselor loses a client -- and the payments the counselor gets for that client.

Not to be all cynical about it. I even wonder if it's not "trade wisdom" to wait for the patient to end the appointments, rather than making that call for the patient. Kind of like how some service desks will insist that the customer on the phone be the one to hang up, so that no one can say the service desk hung up on the customer. The counselor may be thinking, "When my patient is ready to cease counseling, she'll know she's ready."

Well, perhaps the time has come that you know you're ready. Your life's not perfect but no one's is, and you are feeling ready to stand on your own two feet. Why not give it a try? even just a temporary hiatus as a test? Tell your therapist you'd like to wait longer between appointments. If things continue to go well, then make the waits between appointments longer and longer until it's pretty obvious you can say, "Yeah, let's make today our last appointment."

From my remote PC, it looks like you (and Matt, and the kids etc.) are doing well and are ready to go therapy-free for awhile at least, and perhaps for good. So that's my (unsolicited) vote.

It's awesome all the progress you guys have made in the last year and I just think you deserve many kudos and the encouragement to "carry on."

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you, Kevin. Marriage counselling is not as aggressive. Our therapist believes we are healthy and do not need to see her much or at all. We only go twice a month. Yesterday's appointment was 30 minutes, and we were both like, "This would be a good stopping point." It is not the crutch it once was. I am confident in our abilities to stand on our own feet and utilise everything we have learned. Before we were going every week and each appointment was 90-120 minutes or so. I am fine with checking in quarterly or strictly as needed. We talked about it briefly before he left for the weekend, but nothing is set in stone. I am taking an indefinite break from my one-on-one appointments. Naturally we will continue the weekly family therapy, but that is about it. :)
 
That sounds like a good plan to me. ;)

Heh, and I'm probably conflating the words "counseling" and "therapy" inappropriately, but I think you still understood me well.
 
You were doing individual, marital and family therapy? No wonder you're burnt out.

My only concern (besides the eating disorder) is the decision to foster with intent to adopt, and after the fact worrying you're not eligible as adoptive parents because of your fairly recent extreme marital discord and "alternative" relationship style resulting in a fiery breakup and your daughter being hurt by Si. I'd hate for the teenager to be hurt if you aren't approved for adopting her. I also question why you made the choice to adopt right after the marriage almost went down the tubes, and you moved from England to Australia!

I've had stress just moving 20 miles! New jobs, new neighborhood, in your case, entirely new country with all the big differences that come with that. And a baby under age 2, new school for both kids, new friends, etc etc. Time to add a teenager to the mix? Why?
 
Couples therapy started in March of last year. We took a short break, but even before we moved, we were working with our current therapist remotely. Individual therapy started at the beginning of April. I have not taken any breaks. Family therapy started in January. Integrating her required the skills of a professional, patience, and time.

I lost more weight than expected last year because of the various stressors surrounding this situation. I did not set out to lose anything more than the last few kgs of pregnancy weight, but I did. I let the weight fall off naturally instead of killing myself to get back into my jeans. I am not the best about taking time to eat. If I am busy or in motion, eating becomes secondary. I was able to admit that I was a little too small for my liking this time around, and I happily found a nutritionist and a personal trainer. Was I hesitant? Yes, but it was not stemming from a place of, "I am already too fat." It was more along the lines of, "I am comfortable at this weight." I have changed my diet for Lent, so I am not eating red meat, bread, or anything that contains sugar. I need something to balance it out because I did not want another drop in my weight to occur.

I am not worried about what the perception of us being in therapy is. It shows that we are not perfect but cared enough about our marriage to seek outside help. Fact is marriages weather tough times. Maybe not the precise issues we had, but seeking therapy is more common than not. We have been transparent about being in therapy for the past year. I am not ashamed of that. We can explain that away by saying we needed to strengthen our marriage and improve communication. We needed to do both. As long as we can prove or show that we are better now than before, I consider some degree of transparency a good thing.

My past relationship structuring was not that big of an issue when it came to fostering. Fostering is generally on a respite basis or an in-between placement home, so the requirements are similar but not exactly the same. Most children know it is temporary and not to get too attached. It is completely different when you adopt and take permanent legal responsibility of a child. They want to know that when a child is placed with you long-term that it will be in his or her best interest, so they care about all facets of your life: past, present, and future.

As progressive as the laws of this state are, poly is still not part of those laws and not entirely accepted or understood. A same-sex couple or single person would be approved faster than a person with "multiple, loving relationships."*Off the record, the belief is poly is unstable because of the potential influx of people. For an adolescent--like our daughter--with known abandonment and some level of attachment issues, poly is especially frowned upon because said child might get hurt in grown-up bullshit. Our youngest daughter may be resilient and eventually forgive and bounce back. For someone like our oldest to let someone in, develop trust and a bond, and then lose them would be a devastating blow. They have to be handled differently. People can try to sugar coat this or blame it on the society's ignorance, but the truth is a beast. My daughter is walking confirmation of the belief that children can get hurt in the crossfire.

To give you an idea of how stringent the requirements are, some states require that you do not conceive during the first two years after adoption. In one state, they will not let you adopt if the potential adoptee is older than biological children. In another state, they require that one parent be a stay at home parent for the first full year. Obviously multiple relationships that require you to be out of the home would not be embraced or understood. Would anyone really understand if I needed to spend 2-3 nights a week away from home to be with a co-primary? Would they understand if there was an upset in years of therapy because she got hurt by someone I was dating? These are some of the questions I asked myself over the course of those five months before her placement.

The greatest irony of all is even though there has been an addition to our family, I am still 100x more available now than I ever was when I had a second relationship. Being a mum has never required me to be out overnight, have dates, or anything that comes with being in a relationship. She has detracted nothing from our marriage or recovery efforts. She has not infringed on the bonding with our other children. Another romantic relationship would have killed any renewal efforts, and it would have made our youngest daughter retreat because she is fiercely protective of me and anything that "takes me away from her." She is not jealous or envious of another child, though. Another child does not pose a threat like my ex, and our therapist's belief is my ex is a trigger because she blames her for taking and keeping me away from her. When she talked to her, she asked why she was not upset about me working long hours, and she rationalised it by telling her that mummies and daddies have to work to take care of their families.

We simply saw the opportunity to do something good. When we first met her, she was waiting for placement again. Her pending placement fell through, and it broke my heart to watch the disappointment unfold. We took an interest in foster caring, but it was not something up for immediate consideration. We said in the future and left it at that. After her placement fell through, it seemed like opportunity was knocking. It felt like a good idea. We never act in haste. We slept on it for awhile, talked about it in and out therapy, and even brought our daughter and parents into the fold. We talked about it with her, but we did not make any guarantees or promises. The idea of adoption was born to give her the stability she craved and needed, but it was not the immediate goal. We felt moved to protect her and shield her in ways no one else has. I had a happy and loving childhood, and no child should be deprived of that.

We had over five months to decide if we really wanted to go through with it while we waited for approval to become foster carers. We had to undergo training, background checks, home evaluations, etc. before accreditation and placement. The option to bow out gracefully was always present, but we did not want to fail her like everyone else in her life. Nothing in my life the past 12 months has been predictable or expected. I am just going with it and riding the waves that life is sending my way.

It was always known that before our first child's first year of school, a relocation would be a given. This is why he got pissed off when I suggested scrapping the plans because my ex did not want to move. Years had went into the plans, and changing in the eleventh hour rubbed him wrong.

Moving across the world was not an easy task, but the adjustment has been relatively easy. No matter how much you plan for, sometimes the unexpected happens. Have there been interesting moments? Absolutely. It took me awhile to get my bearings here. I discover something new every day. I am not particularly keen on new people, and I prefer to keep a tight circle of people I socialise with. I have made acquaintances. I classify very few as friends. Our son is in a nursery, and this is the first time he has ever been in one. I had a bit of separation anxiety and worried about everything. Their paediatrician in London was why I decided to keep them out of a nursery. (He said nurseries were nothing but a cesspool of germs.) Our youngest daughter started school for the first time, and she was more ready than I was. Our oldest is in high school. Peer pressure, dating, driving, drugs, sex, teen pregnancy, uni plans, etc. We have been here almost a year and everything has tamed down. We have settled into routines and constantly tweaking them. They have co-curricular interests, have made friends, and our two youngest seem to love school. The move was good in the sense that we all needed a fresh start.

Why? Why not? The timing was not perfect, but when is anything in life perfect? I could understand asking why if it was at this point last year. Fresh from a separation, not on speaking terms, no trust, reluctantly going to therapy, still wanting a divorce, hurting one another, and butting heads over custody arrangements. Those circumstances were not conducive to foster caring or even healthy parenting of the two we already had. By month nine, our marriage looked nothing like it did, and our therapist was pushing the baby birds out of the nest to fly on their own. Should we have simply basked in that newly renewed love and focused on fostering relationships with the two children we already had? Of course. We are still doing that. This is no different than a couple wanting to have another child because they have enough love in their hearts and time in their lives to do it.

I only wonder if I would be asked why I chose not to terminate a pregnancy if I had become pregnant while in rebuilding mode. For the record, I would have kept the hypothetical baby. :)
 
When you struggle to keep your weight up (enough to please the doctors), giving up food (putting yourself on a restrictive diet) for lent is probably not the wisest choice. One of the three might have been more reasonable. I'm sure there were plenty of things other than food that would have even been just as hard to give up for 40 days.
 
It is different from deciding to have another biological child because legal authorities are involved, poking into your lives and choices and mistakes... getting knocked up involves no one but you and your 2 sets of reproductive organs. This was your worry a few posts back. You didn't think it through, it seems to me.

I am confused about the timeline, but it seems to me as if you 2 looked into fostering, then adoption, as soon as you got to Australia. You didn't mention it on this blog until the teenager was already living with you.

I know you've got a nanny and you had a moving company pack, move, unpack and arrange all your belongings. I sure didn't have that, being a person of a less than stellar income. I can also see that you like to keep busy, so you gave up a few hours at work, a few hours a week with a lover, and needed to fill the gap. After all, both your biological babies are in school full time, and have a nanny for when they are home!

It's why Brad and Angelina can adopt or give birth to like, 8 kids and still have busy careers. Stacks and stacks of money.

I don't know if money can cover the sketchiness of you having had a 2nd partner who aided and abetted you in causing havoc in your family. I hope it works out with the adoption authorities so your children aren't hurt again by losing their new big sister.

And now it seems to me you're using Jesus to excuse and continue in your anorexia?

It's worrisome.
 
When you struggle to keep your weight up (enough to please the doctors), giving up food (putting yourself on a restrictive diet) for lent is probably not the wisest choice. One of the three might have been more reasonable. I'm sure there were plenty of things other than food that would have even been just as hard to give up for 40 days.

I prefer fish and seafood. I could be content with living a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle. If I eat red meat a couple of times a month, that is more than enough. I cut it out prior to Lent, and I have not missed it at all.

Sugar is the only thing I really gave up for Lent because it is my weak spot. Bread was secondary. I got a late start this year because the food and wine festival was going on. I succumbed to temptation and had doughnuts last week. Fried, filled with jelly, and drizzled with icing. I do not need to eat that rich gelato from Gelato Messina. I also do not need that 10 kg Cadbury bar from Costco. I do not need red velvet cupcakes or triple chocolate/fudge Ghirardelli brownies. 40 days without will not break me.

I gave up bread because I gave up sugar. I have quirks when it comes to food. I cannot eat crumpets without honey and whipped ricotta. I cannot eat scones without cream and rose petal jam. I cannot eat croissants without mascerated strawberries and mascarpone. I will only eat a bagel if has been lightly toasted and topped with fresh preserves. I will not eat French toast if it is not on brioche and does not have some type of berry compote. No sugar, no bread. The goal of this trio is not to lose weight, though.

I know what size I look and feel good at. My GP wants me to gain about 7 kgs. All of it would go straight to my bum and hips. IMO, that is too much for my frame. I gain weight in my lower half. I am not trying to give Kim K. a run for her money in the bum department. I agreed to gain weight in muscle.

I am not a walking lollipop. I do not have bones protruding. Thigh gaps are not appealing. There is no scale in our home. No mirrors are covered. I never have days where I think I look fat. Do I love every single cm of skin? No, but I like my body and the skin I am in. The biggest sources of discomfort are the scars from his surgery and my C-section. Nothing I can do about either. *shrug*
 
It is different from deciding to have another biological child because legal authorities are involved, poking into your lives and choices and mistakes... getting knocked up involves no one but you and your 2 sets of reproductive organs. This was your worry a few posts back. You didn't think it through, it seems to me.

I thought about it quite thoroughly. What is worrying going to do or change? I was worried because I was unsure of what certain people would say. I omitted a whole damn book in my romantic life. How would it look if brother-in-law dearest mentioned that one ex that we all failed to mention? He did not, but he contemplated doing it. That one ex of 12 years that was an extramarital relationship. Oh that would be smiled upon.

I am confused about the timeline, but it seems to me as if you 2 looked into fostering, then adoption, as soon as you got to Australia. You didn't mention it on this blog until the teenager was already living with you.

I wanted to have another child. I was not willing to get pregnant again a year later. Fostering, surrogacy, and adoption were suggestions to accomplish that. Nothing was set in stone. The only informal decision was to wait until our youngest was older. Preferably school aged; 3-5. I love being a mum, but the last experience put me off of the idea of carrying another baby. I was not sure I could deal with the aftermath if he/she had issues or was born prematurely. None of the conversations with numerous specialists--backing the notion that there was nothing I could have done differently--helped my guilt or sense of failure. One difficult pregnancy was enough for me to say, "I do not trust my body to carry a baby to term." That is why alternatives were considered. I had no intention of fostering or anything when we moved here. The only thing that was agreed upon was not conceiving. My implant is still in and probably will be for the next 2-3 years. Provided it works, I should be in the clear until January 2017 or until I decide to remove it.

I know you've got a nanny and you had a moving company pack, move, unpack and arrange all your belongings. I sure didn't have that, being a person of a less than stellar income. I can also see that you like to keep busy, so you gave up a few hours at work, a few hours a week with a lover, and needed to fill the gap. After all, both your biological babies are in school full time, and have a nanny for when they are home!

I had a company do all the work because if I had to do it, we would have been living out of boxes for months. I would encourage anyone to hire a company. It is not that expensive.

I have a nanny. Big deal. I am not leaving my 8 month old 5k km away while I go on a second honeymoon. William and Kate just did that, and her ass does not have a full-time job. I am tired of defending the decision to have a nanny. I am not superwoman, and I cannot be everywhere at every minute. She is not raising my children. She works M-Thurs. Is she the one comforting my baby when she has nightmares? Is she the one staying up all night with a sick child? Is she the one going on family camping weekends? Kissing "boo-boos?" Reading bedtime stories? Checking under the bed/closet for monsters? Being called mummy? Making cupcakes for the prep class? Attending parent meetings? Planning fundraisers with the PTA? Not at all. She only works on Friday nights, which used to be counselling/date night. Matt and the girls will be gone this weekend, and I am spending the weekend with my son. Thus, the nanny will not be on duty at any point.

You act like I am shirking responsibility and leaving my children with the nanny, so I can go drink Black Orchid martinis, get diamond dust facials, flying to Adelaide for lunch, spending five hours at the salon, working out with a trainer, and hosting some bourgeois, pretentious black tie dinner party to raise money for some equally pretentious cause. It is not a crime for me to work, contribute to my household, and help take care of my family. The Stepford way may be to be the dainty little daffodil housewife, but this is not that kind of party. Having a nanny does not make me any less of a mum than any other woman walking this earth. I am sorry you disagree with my choice to have one.

My youngest is at school from 7:45-4ish; Monday-Thursday. I cannot pick him up every day, Matt does not get off until 5-5:30. So the nanny picks him up. My youngest daughter is in school from 8:15-3:15. We leave home at 7:30. Their nanny takes the oldest. I have to be at work for 8:30. I get off at 3, pick up my daughter, spend maybe 30 minutes of 1-on-1 time with her, and on Wednesday/Friday, she has practise. Wednesday's practise starts at 4:30. Friday's practises start at 4 and 4:35. Due to traffic, we usually leave right after she gets out of school. The oldest gets out at a different time every day. Wednesday is the only set day, and it ends at 1:35. Matt picks her up, and they have lunch. If she does not have club meetings or co-curricular practises, she goes every day at 8:20. She gets out at: 3:15 on Mon/Thurs and 3:10 on Tues/Fri. Their nanny or Matt usually pick her up. If I have to drive 35 minutes to get my daughter to practise, picking up the oldest means she would be late every practise.

When we get home between 5:30-6:30, it is time to prepare dinner, do homework, and spend time with my little guy while dinner is on. By 7:00-8:00, we are sitting down and eating dinner as a family. We do not start the bedtime routine until 9:30-10. Prior to that, usually I am spending time with 1-3, helping the oldest with a project/homework, watching Bananas in Pyjamas or some other annoying show, or watching a movie (Monday's). After the little ones are in bed, I take some time to myself, take a bubble bath, catch up on e-mails, read the forum, etc. No matter what, there is always an hour or two of time with Matt. Last night, I went out for drinks, so our time was pushed back but still happened. He just went to bed about 30 minutes ago.

So there is no gap. I am in mummy mode from 3-10:30 or so. Where would a relationship fit? The nanny's day has long been over by that point. I want to spend time with my husband. My argument is there was never any time or room for a relationship. I was a part-time wife and mum in pursuit of that godforsaken other relationship. Stupid choice on all accounts.

If I am busy, it is strictly because of my family. Do I have outside interests? Yes, when I have time. Everyone should have an identity outside of being a parent and/or partner. That is not all I am, and if that is frowned upon, oh well.

I don't know if money can cover the sketchiness of you having had a 2nd partner who aided and abetted you in causing havoc in your family. I hope it works out with the adoption authorities so your children aren't hurt again by losing their new big sister.

I am tired of living in the shadow of my mistakes. At some point, a new day has to come. Newsflash to anyone who reads this: I fucked up and made questionable choices. At the end of the day, I am human and imperfect. Sue the hell out of me for having shitty judgement and allowing some very screwed up sense of loyalty to cause the damage that it did. Shame on me. I cannot change the past and constantly reminding me of my epic failures will not change anything. I have punished myself enough. I live with constant reminders.
 
No criticism/reminders from me, FWIW. I can see there is a risk involved in attempting to adopt, in that the adoption may be rejected by the board for whatever reasons (and we all have reasons why an adoption board could reject us -- I certainly do). I think you chose to foster/adopt because your heart said yes and your mind said, "I think we can do this."

And the same goes for dieting issues. My issue is that I weigh "too much" (compared to what is considered "normal"). Sure I could do better about diet and exercise (not that I do horrible), but there's a limit to how much you can worry about such things and still live a life that is happy (or at least tolerable) for you. I should give up sugar for Lent but I know I'd never follow through with that commitment. I just know me. Regimentation goes over like a lead brick. I do much better (internally at least) when I make intuitive decisions as I go along.

So okay, some of us are curvaceous, others are light on the scale. This is not a problem, it is called diversity. As long as you don't starve yourself to death, I'll not concern myself with the details of what you eat (or don't eat). Take care of yourself, your husband, and your kids, and you will be fine.

As for class warfare and its euphemistic relatives, it makes me feel much better when people respect each other's lot in life whatever that may be. Last time I checked money is only important when you're so bad off you're living on the streets not knowing where your next meal will come from. Since I am much better off than that, I don't begrudge you a few perks in life, especially given the highly-valued occupations you and Matt are engaged in. In fact I am gratified that you don't talk down to me at all. I know some people would let their high status go to their head. You don't and I commend you for it.

Perhaps it's because I'm rather me-centric, but the truth of the matter is I'll seldom pass judgment without an insidious pattern of unmitigated, unwarranted, personal provocation. Since you have never been anything but courteous and kind towards me, I am inclined to return the favor.

You will have more challenges in your life I'm sure. We all do. We all need "the help of the gods" from time to time. It is not a perfect world. Like Job, you can have a great deal in life on one day, then lose it all the next. And if you're like me, you end up hurting people in your life as well. Do the best you can to make up for the bad and don't be afraid to hope for the good. That's my vote anyway.
 
Mags, your comments about money is just snarky and resentful. Costs of childcare were mentioned a while back and for what most of us here in the states pay for daycare for one child, we could have a full time nanny elsewhere. For those prices, I'd have hired a full time nanny also. Anyone who says they wouldn't hire some kind of help if they could afford it is either lying or masochistic - or they are so caught up in the belief that they are a failure if they don't do everything themselves.

When doing a long distance move, it isn't that much more expensive to let the movers pack it and un-pack it, local move - that's another story. You just have to be careful, those guys will pack up the trash and move it, if you don't stop them. Happened to a friend of mine - and it sat in storage for 3 months :eek:.
 
It is $135/day for our son's nursery. He goes four days a week, and they only give one free week per year. Quick math will reveal we pay more for him to go to a nursery than some students spend on tuition at uni. It is cheaper to have a nanny here. We only pay the nanny for what she works. If he is out sick for a week, we still have to pay just like he was there. That is just tuition. That does not include other fees like the instructional fee every term or rate increases.
 
No criticism/reminders from me, FWIW. I can see there is a risk involved in attempting to adopt, in that the adoption may be rejected by the board for whatever reasons (and we all have reasons why an adoption board could reject us -- I certainly do). I think you chose to foster/adopt because your heart said yes and your mind said, "I think we can do this."

I have heard of people getting rejected for the most mundane of reasons, so I know what we are up against. Our hearts and minds said yes. Nothing in my life has followed any sort of path the past year. The only thing that was planned was moving half-way across the world. Other than that, I never know what to expect from day to day. I did not wake up one day and say, "Let's expand our family right now." If I wanted to do that, I would have had my implant removed and let nature take its course.

For the first time in 12 years, I had the chance to do something that was not just about me, my happiness, my wants, and my so-called "needs." That was all poly was, and when all was said and done, I felt incredibly selfish and foolish behind some of my choices. It benefited no one but me, and I dislike the feelings attached with that. I grew up and out of that. This is something bigger than me or my former ego. Crazy? Implusive? Sure, but I see the benefits every day. I have watched that child blossom and come out of her shell. Something is alive in her eyes and spirit. She is comfortable, happy, and considers this her home. The one thing she has never had is that sense of family or a place to call home, and now, she has that. No amount of money can buy that. That tells me we did something right for her. As cliché as it may sound, she has complemented me as a person and helped round me out. Do I have any regrets? No. I am confident in our decision to adopt and make her part of our family.

Our marriage was not and will never be perfect. This is the strongest it has been in years, and we survived some serious obstacles. Nonetheless, we are still standing. The timing was not what we planned, but sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and just let go and let a higher power take over. It has been rather liberating and freeing.

The moment when my feet hit the floor and I hear my children laughing, talking, and/or running is best start to the morning. The moments I live for are the ones like singing our youngest to sleep, talking to our oldest about the boy she likes, or snuggling up with my princess watching "Princess and the Frog." Hands down being a mum is my greatest and proudest accomplishment.

And the same goes for dieting issues. My issue is that I weigh "too much" (compared to what is considered "normal"). Sure I could do better about diet and exercise (not that I do horrible), but there's a limit to how much you can worry about such things and still live a life that is happy (or at least tolerable) for you. I should give up sugar for Lent but I know I'd never follow through with that commitment. I just know me. Regimentation goes over like a lead brick. I do much better (internally at least) when I make intuitive decisions as I go along.

Ehh. Normal and too much are subjective. You can be scary skinny and be more unhealthy than if you were overweight. Everybody is different. I would rather not worry about my diet. The only perk is I can indulge on Sunday's. I would much rather be noshing on this than giving up sugar for 40 days:

kb81hu.jpg


This is what a 10 kg bar of Cadbury looks like. Costco is my new best friend. (And yes, that is $179!)

So okay, some of us are curvaceous, others are light on the scale. This is not a problem, it is called diversity. As long as you don't starve yourself to death, I'll not concern myself with the details of what you eat (or don't eat). Take care of yourself, your husband, and your kids, and you will be fine.

I will drink some tea to that!

As for class warfare and its euphemistic relatives, it makes me feel much better when people respect each other's lot in life whatever that may be. Last time I checked money is only important when you're so bad off you're living on the streets not knowing where your next meal will come from. Since I am much better off than that, I don't begrudge you a few perks in life, especially given the highly-valued occupations you and Matt are engaged in. In fact I am gratified that you don't talk down to me at all. I know some people would let their high status go to their head. You don't and I commend you for it.

I have lead a very charmed life, but it does not make me better than anyone. I won the vagina lottery and all the perks that came with it. My parents made sure I was grounded, humble, and could maintain a safe distance from the hype. My mum would skin me alive if ever she heard of me having my nose in the air or talking down on anybody. She has no issue bringing me back down to earth. I am a chameleon. I can relate to everybody, and I enjoy being flexible.

I am always surprised when people meet me and tell me I was not what they were expecting. They expect some uppity, unapproachable individual and get little old me. I usually encounter that when I do charity work. I usually have on no make-up, and I am wearing jeans and rocking a bun. There is no need for glam. I refuse to write a cheque and act like I have done so much. I prefer to be hands on. I just did my monthly wardrobe cleaning and donated clothing to one of my patronages. The clothing is sold to help women are looking for work or have recently been employed. They offer personal styling, interview prep, etc. Of course women need appropriate work attire, and when you look good, you feel good. I will be working in the store later on today and tomorrow. I am happy to help, and I love talking to the women the charity helps.

Perhaps it's because I'm rather me-centric, but the truth of the matter is I'll seldom pass judgment without an insidious pattern of unmitigated, unwarranted, personal provocation. Since you have never been anything but courteous and kind towards me, I am inclined to return the favor.

Thank you. That is just me being me.

You will have more challenges in your life I'm sure. We all do. We all need "the help of the gods" from time to time. It is not a perfect world. Like Job, you can have a great deal in life on one day, then lose it all the next. And if you're like me, you end up hurting people in your life as well. Do the best you can to make up for the bad and don't be afraid to hope for the good. That's my vote anyway.

Challenges make me stronger because they are the moments that test my faith and make it real. I have hurt people, and while I cannot undo the hurt, I can do better and not make the same mistakes. I have learned, and I am still finding my way. Better than I was but not the best that I can be, yet.
 
That sounds fine to me. :)

Wow, a $179 Cadbury bar? (Shaking head.) Just imagine if that were a Cadbury egg. They could call it a dinosaur egg.

Anyhow, carry on. I'm thinking your mum is probably pretty pleased, and she should be.
 
I wish it was an egg. Cadbury would be after my heart. :D $180 for a chocolate bar. I was seriously considering buying one. My dentist would have a fit if she saw that.

I did something yesterday that needed to be done. I finally had a sit down discussion with my ex. Si e-mailed me weeks back and asked if we could meet up at my earliest convenience. I was hesitant. I mulled over it, got advice from the most unlikely source (Matt's grandmother), and had to figure out if I was in the frame of mind to not reach across the table and slap the hell out of her. No worries. I did nothing of the sort.

I walked into the coffee shop, and she was already there. The first thing she said was, "Thank you for coming." There was the awkward moment where I was not sure if I should extend a hand or do a courteous cheek kiss. We sat down, and it was strange being close to her. She looked different. Her hair is darker. She has lost weight, and her eyes lacked the depth they once had. What I saw was more along the lines of pain, emptiness, and sadness. It was actually hard for me to look her in the eyes because I felt like I was looking at the shell of a person.

Our waiter appeared, and we ordered. I am not one to waste time, so as soon as he left, I asked her why she wanted to meet? The first thing she offered was an apology. The apologies were for abandoning my child, trying to break apart my marriage and family, using Matt and our children as pawns, disappointing and hurting me, letting her jealousy drive her to the point of ever thinking she could take Matt's place as my spouse and parent of our children, etc. Naturally, my eyebrow was arched and raised to the gods. I had a moment where I wondered if it was all part of a new game and a new round of bullshit. Then, I realised she has nothing to gain because she has had no contact with me, and the last time we were face-to-face, it was not one of happy go-lucky times. She admitted to being sick with shame and embarrassed by her behaviour. Karma has given her a swift kick in the bum, too. She went on to explain that she really did love me but never having the entanglements that we had started weighing her down. I listened to her and heard her out without interrupting her. While I do not condone what she did, I am empathetic.

My side of the conversation was a release. It was an emotional conversation. I decided transparency was for the best. I felt like she needed to know the truth. After all, what was I protecting her from? The truth? That benefits no one. I am not sure why, but I asked, "What did I do to deserve the way you treated me?" All she could mumble was, "Nothing." Like I told her, initially, I tried to make it fair in every sense of the word, but she always wanted more and more. Nothing was ever good enough. I could have given her the stars, the planet, and an ocean, but she would have wanted more. I went against my husband and even my own wishes, and she basically used her place in my life as leverage to gain the upper hand over him. I loved her, but I have spent 12 months regretting every year I spent with her because of selfish choices. When she told me she loved me, I thought part of love was trust and respect. I doubted her love because she did not respect me enough to say, "Hey Ry. I cannot do this, and I would rather break your heart now than destroy the single most important thing to you." I asked her, "How did you sleep at night and live with yourself? How deluded could you possibly be to think I would just get over a crippling divorce, custody dispute, and ride off into the sunset with you?" I was not trying to make her cry, but I did. All she could do was say, "I am sorry. Do you hate me?" A simple "no" was sufficient. We were both quiet. She broke the silence and asked, "Where do we go from here?" I shrugged and sipped my tea. The words that came to me were, "Forgiveness knows no conditions, and it must be done with an open heart to accommodate it. I do not have a magic wand to wave and grant forgiveness, but I know it is an internal process. My heart is not there yet, but in time, that may change." She understood.

The tone of the conversation changed to a more light-hearted nature. For a brief moment, it was nice to feel something other than anger towards her. I saw a glimpse of the woman I called a friend all those years. Did I enjoy the familiarity of seeing her smile or hearing her laugh? Sure. I do not believe she is a bad person, and I cared a great deal for her. I probably still do, but it is deeply buried. I miss the friendship we had. I miss watching Downton Abbey with her. I miss going to high tea and meeting up for lunch. Would it be nice to have some of that back? Sure. We talked for about an hour. I walked her to her car, and in an uncharacteristic move, we hugged. She gave me her number and asked if we could do it again some time. I told her maybe. We left, and I headed home.

When I got home, Matt was in the shower. I decided to go ahead and tell him then. I am not sure why we have these types of conversations while one of us is showering. He seemed surprised, but he did not shut the conversation down. I was suspicious of him and why he was listening and engaged in the conversation. I asked him, "Is this the part where you tell me that I am making a mistake and being bloody daft, or will you wait until something happens and imply that you told me so?" He stepped out, laughed, and said, "Nope. Just the part where I remind you that I trust you and your judgement." With that, he kissed me and walked out of the bathroom to get dressed for our date.

Trying to change the past is like trying to get yesterday back. I might be open to the idea of rebuilding a friendship with her, and I might be warming to the idea of going to therapy in the future. Do I feel better? I suppose. It was cathartic, and it needed to happen. The conversation was controlled, respectful, and there was no drink throwing, yelling, or anything dramatic. Being transparent and direct works better than beating around the bush and avoidance. I do feel like a weight has been lifted. The anger has subsided for the moment. Little glimmer of optimism and hope? Maybe.
 
He stepped out, laughed, and said, "Nope. Just the part where I remind you that I trust you and your judgement." With that, he kissed me and walked out of the bathroom to get dressed for our date.

Wiping a tear away :). This was sweet.

Do I feel better? I suppose. It was cathartic, and it needed to happen.

Then it was a good thing. Keeping that anger around, even if it's justified can eat you up.
 
This brings back to my mind the post where I mentioned my brother's four levels of forgiveness:

  • letting go of the pain the person caused you,
  • developing compassion and understanding toward that person,
  • doing something nice for that person,
  • trusting that person again.
Does this still seem to be true, now that you have met up with Si? Which of those four levels would you say you're at now?

Back when we introduced this concept to this thread, you described where you were at as basically completing the first level but no further:

"I really do not feel any pain. It is more anger, betrayal, disappointment, and disgust. I feel no empathy or compassion for her. I want to shake her and scream, 'Own up to what you did and stop blaming it on everybody.' I still have days where the first thought with name association is, 'Backstabbing bitch.' I have tried to understand why she did what she did, but I cannot put myself in her shoes to walk that path."

Where do you feel you are today in comparison to then?

Something that has struck me about those four levels is that the higher the level, the more it tends to require the participation of the person who hurt you. You could let go of the pain without any effort on Si's part, perhaps without Si even caring whether you forgave her. But now that she is beginning to participate, and is beginning to take action and begin the repentance process by expressing regret for what she did and owning up to it, it seems to make it possible for your heart to open up to her just a little. Maybe even do something (just a little something) nice by giving her a hug.

In any case, it would be hard for both you and her to go as far as that fourth level. My brother says you have to give the offending party a reasonable set of steps they can follow to regain your trust. Well, I am thinking the quest Si would have to accomplish would be that she would have to regain Matt's trust before she could regain yours.

I can't imagine how Si would accomplish that. I don't know where Matt is in terms of forgiveness level but I'm sure it's far from the fourth level. I wonder if it would help if Si wrote Matt a hand-written letter? I'm sure Matt wouldn't be willing to meet her for lunch or tea, but maybe he'd be willing to read that letter (without crumpling it up). If so, it would give Si a chance to apologize to him, and own up to what she did.

Of course, even doing all four levels would not mean that you could let her back into your life again. It's not a matter of trusting her. The fact is, there simply isn't room for her in your life anymore. You have found out that polyamory doesn't work for you. I suppose the best Si could hope for (hypothetically) is to become a cordial friend, though not one who could ever see the children. How could she ever regain their trust? It is a riddle; perhaps there is no answer.
 
Wiping a tear away :). This was sweet.

Adding that to the list of reasons why he continues to be my fave. He has sweet moments.

Then it was a good thing. Keeping that anger around, even if it's justified can eat you up.

I agree wholeheartedly. I certainly feel better now that I am not carrying that weight around, and it has been almost 24 hours later. No sudden resurgence of anger. Disliking her was hurting me more than it was hurting her. I have freely chosen to work towards forgiveness and from a place of positive energy.
 
Gosh I play the lottery all the time ...powerball ...Megamillions ...how do you play "enter " the vagina lottery :D ....and how do you know if you've won?

forget it ..just count me in....I'll do it for the stories later :D
 
Gosh I play the lottery all the time ...powerball ...Megamillions ...how do you play "enter " the vagina lottery :D ....and how do you know if you've won?

forget it ..just count me in....I'll do it for the stories later :D

Matt's great aunt said that last weekend. My SIL asked her if she was looking forward to the royal family visiting in her city, and her response was, "Everyone in that family and all generations bred from old money have won the lottery. Take what's-her-name. She delivered the future king. Women give birth every day. Her baby is more important than all the rest because he came out of the royal vag. Does the average baby have millions of pounds to their name and know their destiny is to be king? No, but he came out of the right one and one the vagina lottery. Same goes for those trust fund brats." We all were looking at each other and trying to figure out what to say. She probably thinks the same thing about anyone who married into their family. She refers to her son's ex-wife as that gold-digging "slore." This is what I married into. :eek:

Royalist she is not. (She also seems like the type to leave 3% of her estate to her children and leave the rest to a dog.)
 
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