Beo's Log, Stardate....Today.

I just wish I knew what to do when you were feeling the anxiety. I get flooded with guilt and it makes me want to stop everything and "go back" to the way it was. At the same time the thought of that doesn't feel right either, and I immediately feel a sense of loss at the idea of it.

All I think I can do is listen, and keep telling you how much I love you, and that none of this is because I feel you are inadequate in any way, shape or form. I wish there was an easier answer.

Hi Jenagain, I'm right in there with Beodude and would like to share an experience with you that may or may not help. I'm so new to this and the board, I'm not sure I should even be offering advice, but I am and I hope it helps.

T feels as you do when I get fearful and angry, and like you she does exactly what you discussed above. Here is what her actions do for me at that time. First it gets me out of the dark place I go to when I'm like that. Ts quiet reassuring tone and loving behavior get me back to seeing this for what it is, and not what I am afraid of. She keeps at it until she gets through my thick skull and ego driven reaction. Much of what I'm feeling at this time Jen has nothing to do with T being poly but is old hurts and pain coming up. This journey into poly has acted as a conduit...doorway for old undealt with emotional pain to rear it's head. I cannot speak for Beodude but much of my jealousy and fear have nothing to do with T getting a BF. I have been able to deal and look at this only because T acted just as you did and do. Love expressed and reassurances offered at these highly charged times helped me focus on how much I love T and how much she loves me. It's been awesome.

I have a lifetime of old fears and hurts all trying to attach themselves to this experience and am learning to tell them they don't belong in this conversation/ experience of poly. Takes time, but Ts patient, loving demeanor and refusal to give up on me has made a world of difference.


I'm not quite sure what to tell you on that one.. I think it's just something I have to work through on my own. The contact does seem to help though.

I actually had a pretty positive thing happen last night. Jen was having a pretty rough time with a lot of things last night when I got to work. I tried to do as much as I could before I left, but I can't erase stress -_-. While I was at work, when J was headed out the door, I pulled him to the side. I asked if he could head over and hang out with Jen for a bit. He said sure. I asked if he had chocolate, and he looked in his bag, and he did! So he headed over there.

It was nice to be able to count on him, and help Jen out. It's the first positive thing that's happened (poly wise) in a couple weeks. Hopefully this will be a good start to something that can be healthy again.

You're a good and decent man Beodude.

Well, in my infinite wisdom, I wanted to tell somebody about Jen being poly. I figured it would help me to get more comfortable with her newfound life. I told one guy that I'm pretty close to. At first he didn't get it, but when I asked him if he knew any single girls for me to date... He finally understood. Haha

It wasn't my best idea. He pretty much reiterated all of my things, and sort of validated them, as silly as that sounds. So yeah, it kinda sucks. Great idea, right? Not so much.

I shared my story with 2 people. The first guy was one of my closest friends, he fed my fears, told me my marriage was over and that Poly was unnatural. He spun me up to where I starting to breakdown, and we were in a food court at a mall! He then got up, said he had to go and that was the last time I heard from him. Some friend.

The second guy also a good friend, said although he didn't really get it, he supported T and I and anything he could do to help, he would. He's been a real friend and I'm fortunate to have him. But I did learn from this that few people in our society as it exists today understand what you and I along with Jen and T are doing and experiencing. So I'm glad this board and through it, you, are here for me.

I may post some of this in my thread so that I have a record of my thoughts on this.

My best to you and jenagain, may we all find that which we're looking for.

FT

P.S. You and I seem to be on parallel paths here beo and I thank you for taking the time to let me know i wasn't alone.

Be well

FT
 
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Sundance and I are on a similar path as you are, as well! Amazing. Wish we could all meet up around a campfire sometime. Guess it will have to be a virtual one, for now :cool:
 
Hey Beo,

I posted some advice that was really for both of you on Jen's thread, then came over here to read yours. Only one more thing to add, really -- reading your first post, it sounded like you were pretty ok until the question of intercourse kept coming up. If that's a boundary for you, I really think that's *ok* for now. Don't feel like it's inevitable that that boundary's going to be crossed before you're ready. Ideally we should all work out all of our fears and not have to have so many rules, and hopefully that will happen for you but for now... all of this is so so new, if you have a limit you need to set, well, it doesn't *have* to make sense as long as you're not just setting the limit out of spite (which doesn't sound at all like the case). Take a little more time with it and keep working, don't allow yourself to be rushed such that you end up feeling worse! It'll be better for *everyone*... you, her, him... if you're truly in a good place. :)
 
@ Beodude: First of all, kudos on asking J to look in on Jen and comfort her when you couldn't be there for her!

My idea on jealousy (and elsewhere I've distinguished between 2 types of "jealousy") is that it's a sign of insecurity. You seem to be sure that Jen isn't about to stop loving you or even love somebody more than you. So I'm asking myself (I get these crazy ideas and throw them into the pot) if maybe you - deep down - feel that you're unworthy of love. A lot of us have this idea drummed into us when we're young. I have to admit that this is a bit of delayed projection on my part: when I was a teenager I was convinced that I was unlovable, so that any time that somebody tried to get close, I couldn't believe that they could really care for me. Most of this is besides the point (aside from to say that I've been there) but my question to you is: Do you love yourself? You know that Jen loves you, so that's not the problem. Maybe - just maybe - if you were sure of your love for yourself, the jealousy wouldn't hurt so?

And - as I think I've already written before on this thread (or was it another one?) - be patient with the jealousy thing, be gentle on yourself. It'll take time. (But that detail about asking J to comfort Jen is a sure sign that you're heading there.)

All the best!
 
Love myself? Not really sure. Maybe?

I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything". I felt like I was able to do it all. Now I can't, and it pretty much bear blasted my self confidence. I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them. Same thing with Jen, but on a waaaaay different level.

I try and talk to myself when I get anxious, but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Even talking with Jen just seems to bandaid the problem... I feel like I've hit a wall of progress.
 
I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything".
Yeah: we're sold this "Need somebody else to make me whole" + "Happy Ever after" package deal, and when it doesn't work out that way, we feel that we're the failures - not the package deal. This is one of my main reasons for being poly. Even though right now I haven't got any sexual relationship going, I consider myself poly because I reject that first part of the package and because I refuse to accept monogamy. That needs some clarification: I could be happy in a relationship that was - for all practical purposes - monogamous... as long as I didn't feel that my freedom was restricted nor that I was restricting the freedom of someone I loved. It's not the extra sex i need: it's the freedom.
 
But what happens when I felt all those things? I get everything I want from Jen. It makes me feel like garbage that I don't reciprocate that.
 
So... Did I hit rock bottom yesterday? I was tired of fighting to feel happy. The last couple weeks have been hard on me. I decided that the easiest thing to do was give in to sadness. I accepted that I was going to be sad, and it felt kind of... nice. Consistency was back. You can always get meds to fix it, right? Besides, poly is about filling holes (hahaha so punny), so Jen could just find somebody to fill anything I can't be. Seemed like a good plan. It was the easiest way to not be hurt, and Jen would be free to do what she wanted.

I got the kids yesterday, and when Jen got up, I was barely looking at her, much less talking. I felt pretty empty at that point, but I didn't really want to talk while the kids were up. After we got them down for a nap, I told her that I gave up. She said that wasn't right, and it's not what she wanted. We talked for a bit, but she had to get the kids some medecine.

I was still feeling like garbage after I went to work. I couldn't get out of my funk. All I was feeling (when my brain could sort the thousand thoughts flying through it at a given time) was anger and regret. Jen came by after that, and just held me for a bit. It was nice...

I'm feeling better now, but I keep feeling regret. How can I move forward, when all I want to do is go back? That was when I was strong, and happy. Now, I struggle with both at times.



Jen is looking for a counselor that we can go to together. I don't think I can get out of this on my own. Talking doesn't seem to help, and I keep going back to the same negative emotions. Hopefully a professional can help with that.
 
Wow, your post has sent me to a place I didn't want to be. You talk about Jen being your "everything", that is a LOT of preassure to put on one person. My husband did this to me for a number of years. The truth is, I can not be this mythical imaginary person he had made me out to be. The more I tried, the more I failed and the more misserable I became. I felt guilty for letting him down, I resented him for creating all these expectations of me that I wasn't capable of and I hated him for making me responsible for his happiness. I want to SHARE in his happiness, not be solely responsible for it. If I am required to be responsible for his happiness, I will have to walk away, because I am not qualified, nor capable of that task and I will make mistakes that will kill us both. Kinda like sending a teenager to do a job that requires a licenesed electrician.

I think going to a councelor is a great idea.
 
Please don't give up. You've shown your heart here, and I've seen its purity and strength. You and Jen have a love that is rare. Be strong -- you can create a love life that fits you both. You are worth it, both of you.
 
I think to be fair..... Beo has tried very hard to give this a shot....its very painful and he doesn't see a huge up side....only more pain and drama. I don't think any of us can extrapolate his meaning of the word "everything" as it relates to his wife. I know when I was struggling...in a lot of pain.... not sleeping well... the exact or perfect word didn't always reach the screen.....and what I may have typed 3 hrs ago I wouldn't have type later. Lets not forget he/they dated for some period of time then got married and had some kids and now the game has changed...he is asked to adapt... change a core belief.....no small task.

This idea that people aren't responsible for others happiness is true. What about responsible for others pain??? If others aren't connected to happiness then why do Poly people need "others" to feel happy or Loved/complete. So the converse is actually true.... take away the "other(s)" and now someone else isn't happy.

Hey I learned a lot in my experience....I don't want to share...I don't share a car ....in fact I have several non of which I share, Clothes, house, pets,.... the most intimate person in my life...never again. Here's another big thing I don't have to. There are millions of people ...male and female struggling to make one relationship work well let alone several. And if I'm willing to devote my time and focus to one person I think I deserve the same in return. It's become a self worth issue for me. Time and energy, money are all a zero sum game.....want a better relationship with a spouse or partner.... not going to get it by investing in some other outside relationship.

Jen said she was ok with you exploring a second relationship... How would she have been if you had found someone and sprung it on here in the exact same way?? In my situation and I have very limited experience so really doesn't mean much but I think my wife agreed to out of fairness and as way of maintaining or continue what she wanted to have. The pain or discomfort would have been offset by her pleasure. In this poly/ mono dynamic that offset is sometimes hard to find for the mono person.

I know if I had come home lets say a yr or 2 after our second child and pitched this I would have gotten lamp thrown at my head. And in all seriousness that would have been great for everyone at the time. Not the lamp.... the being poly on my part .

She admitted very early in our journey that because of her slight weight gain after the children that she would have felt very threatened had I approached with a similar request. Understandable and reasonable and no amount of spin would have convince her otherwise. I may have been much happier had I explored an outside relationship..... fuck I know I would have.... but at what cost...

Trust your gut....if it feels wrong ...do something that feels better or good. It doesn't matter if the rest of the planet is poly if it feels bad to you then move in a direction that feels better..... Good luck to both of you ... D
 
Sneacail.. I do relate to your post, and I do feel a lot of pressure to not only make myself happy but be responsible for making sure that he is happy. It seems like there is absolutely nothing I can do to bring him out of his funk, but I'm not giving up. Even "going back" wont make him happy because he knows how I feel about poly.

Carma, I agree whole-heartedly.

Dingedheart, while I also relate to your post in some manners, though I think what you see in poly and what I see are different. I don't, and have never had any problems with our marriage. I've never tried to seek something better or thought that we required something to spice it up. This isn't something I want to do to fix anything that I viewed as wrong. I love my husband dearly, and I do view him as the most important person in my life, but am I not also important?

I did say I would be okay with him exploring a second relationship. I never said that I thought it would be easy for me either, I don't expect it would be, but I also know how to give myself positive affirmations and deal with negative feelings. I have been in relationships before that were not monogamous, and it wasn't with my consent either. However, it was never the infidelity that bothered me, it was always the lying. The bottom line is I probably would have reacted differently than him, because I am not mono-minded.

The problem we've come to is that when trusting our guts, we both have come to different conclusions. For me, it's that I feel I need that freedom. For him, he feels that giving me that freedom takes away from his self worth. However we both feel that we have a very strong and rare type of relationship and we never want to be with out the other, so with time and probably counseling we will find an answer.

That said, I have been in and out of counseling most of my life and actually go now. I contacted a marriage counselor but she didn't want to see us without permission from my current counselor so I will be discussing things with her at my next appointment and we'll go from there. In the meantime I'll keep doing the best I can at showing hubby how much I love him, and how important he is to me.
 
Even "going back" wont make him happy because he knows how I feel about poly.

Going back usually doesn't work for exactly that reason. However, slowing down, taking a "time-out" and just being (no more talking or discussions on the subject for a while) can help regulate some of the emotions. Schedule some dates for just the two of you 1-2 a week.

I hate change and will usually flip out with last minute changes unless I have been able to prepare myself ahead of time. I will fight new ideas if it means an immediate change, but once I have had time to process some stuff, I can address some of the problems I see with the new idea and try to incorporate the general premiss of the idea into a working solution. It is also possible to get overloaded with a subject and then it's - "STOP! THE BRAIN IS FULL, NO MORE, SYSTEMS ARE CRASHING."
 
hi jen

If your marriage is good, not trying to spice things up, not trying to fix things.....what are the reasons....and yes you are important and I;m sure he thinks that otherwise he wouldn't have put himself through that. I dont want to put words in anyone's mouth but when we first started it felt like my soul was being ripped out....I know that sounds overly dramatic...but that's the only way I could describe it.....affirmations didn't really help me.....I can tell him what did if he wants .....pm me.

I think you are doing a very smart thing by getting your counselors involved. And I agree with SN about taking a break...not going to hurt.
 
If your marriage is good, not trying to spice things up, not trying to fix things.....what are the reasons

And I agree with SN about taking a break...not going to hurt.

Maybe this is why I have a hard time accepting it? I don't know. Obviously something was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't feel so right after finding poly. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something in the marriage, but I don't know what was.




It's hard to take a break from talking about it. It's pretty much all I think about at work. This eventually leads to about an hour or so where I don't know what to do with my hands. I'll shake them, move my fingers around... Just something to help get rid of all my emotional energy. If I don't talk about it, it seems to stay around for a lot longer, and it keeps me in the funk.

It's what I think about at home a lot too. I pretty much have no refuge from my brain, and it's absolutely exhausting. The only times I'm really not thinking about it at all, is when I'm driving my RX-8, or when I have so much work to do I don't have time to think about anything else.



Haha I did like the thing about "quitting cold turkey" though. Kinda funny.
 
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Obviously something was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't feel so right after finding poly. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something in the marriage, but I don't know what was.

While I can't know what's actually going on in the intricacies of your relationship, I disagree strongly with the premise of this statement. I can have a job I absolutely love, and then find a hobby I love and that doesn't mean that there was anything whatsoever wrong with my life or my job. It just means that I'm a complex person with room for more than one thing in my life.

The big question, of course, is time... do I really have time to commit myself to both my my job and to a casual hobby (for the sake of the analogy a tertiary partner) or a serious hobby (secondary partner) or even a second job (co-primary)? It might take a lot of juggling and a lot of honest assessment, maybe some other pursuits in my life have to be set aside.

But the desire to try new things doesn't, doesn't, *doesn't* mean that I had some hidden problem in my life, that I love my job any less or that there's anything wrong!!
 
Right, it wasn't something in the marriage. I didn't say, hey, I feel like I need something else and go looking for it. It landed in our laps, and I was like "Wow, why didn't that feel wrong? Why do I feel like a part of me that was missing has been filled?" It's not that I ever knew something was missing, or felt like something was missing, until it wasn't. It was like being wrapped in comfort, at least until it started affecting hubby negatively.

After that, all of a sudden, my whole relationship/sexual history made sense. I would be lying if I said that it didn't increase my sex drive something fierce, because it did. That made ME feel better about that part of our marriage, but I wouldn't consider it a problem before. Hubby never complained about the infrequency and I did everything I could to try and increase it, but it was difficult. I always assumed it was hormones, fatigue from the kids, etc. It certainly wasn't hubby! I never felt the sex itself was lacking in any way, I've always enjoyed it thoroughly.

So, after some discussion this morning, we're going to try and take a week off of "poly". J is on leave, I'm not going to invite any of my/our male friends over, we aren't going to come and visit the forum, just to have a reprieve and try and give ourselves some time that's just us again. So if we don't respond for a while, that's why! :)
 
So, after some discussion this morning, we're going to try and take a week off of "poly". J is on leave, I'm not going to invite any of my/our male friends over, we aren't going to come and visit the forum, just to have a reprieve and try and give ourselves some time that's just us again. So if we don't respond for a while, that's why! :)

I think this is a *wonderful* idea. :) You shouldn't build additions to a house that doesn't have a strong foundation (I am all about the analogies today, apparently). Take as much time as you both need, yeah?
 
Love myself? Not really sure. Maybe?

I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything". I felt like I was able to do it all. Now I can't, and it pretty much bear blasted my self confidence. I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them. Same thing with Jen, but on a waaaaay different level.

I try and talk to myself when I get anxious, but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Even talking with Jen just seems to bandaid the problem... I feel like I've hit a wall of progress.
Hi, Beodude! You won't read this until you get back from your holiday-from-poly, but since I only get to connect to Internet 2-3 days in a row each week, I'll reply now. What I'd like is to sit down and talk to you leisurely, immediate 2-way (or more, if Jen were in on it) communication...

I was going to comment last week on more of the comment quoted above, but the person with the key wanted to go home for the weekend and got angry at me for holding her up for even 8 minutes. [I can't blame her: when I do get on-line, I'm rarely finished by closing time, so this isn't the first time that I've kept her waiting.] So I sent what I already had done, gathered my things, and scooted!

Now, 5 days later, I'm not sure exactly what I wanted to add. I know that I was thinking of a gentle joke: "Hey, Beo, I hope that you're not planning to let Jen out early!" But only to illustrate that you're both keepers. There's a bedrock of strong Love there, and it's warming to read how much you want Jen to be happy... even when it hurts.

Now - because of something that happened since my last log-in - I want to comment on your "I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them."

The thing is, I'm a bit like this myself: I don't think that I get my feeling of self-worth from others, but I certainly look after others more than I look after myself. I'm a pretty good cook, and I love to cook for others. But if it's just me... I might just cook some pasta and open a tetra-brick of supermarket tomato sauce. Sometimes I don't even bother to chop up one clove of garlic! (A salad per day is a must, but it's usually much simpler than the amazing salads with improvised and irrepeatable sauces that I prepare at friends' houses.)

Anyway, I thought that I might be getting a visit this week and spent part of 3 days in a cleaning and tidying blitz to get the house quarter-way presentable. Today (via e-mail) I found out that my visitor probably won't be showing up... but my living-room is sooooooooo much more comfortable (for me) than it's been in weeks! (OK: tell the truth - in months!) [Bachelors!!!]

OK! Maybe this is what I wanted to comment on last week: 'being Jen's "everything".' I commented on something like this on another thread:
Try playing this game: Imagine yourself wanting to be the one she shares all her pleasures with, getting jealous whenever she wants to go on a shopping trip with one of her friends, dancing every dance with her at every party you ever go to, getting upset when she laughs at other people's jokes (I actually knew someone like this with his girlfriend - my ex.) There are very few people in this world who don't have do deal with jealousy at some time, so you're not alone. [...]

It hurts, I know. And I really was not trying to be flippant with that game suggestion. It might help to put things in perspective. It hurts and it's going to hurt for a while. But you love her and her happiness means a lot to you. And your happiness means a lot to her. So you're going to be gentle and patient with each other... and hopefully grow closer through the painful growing process.
I think that this applies to you and Jen, too: You can't be somebody everything! If Jen wanted you to be her everything ("Tie my shoes for me, Honey!", "Oh, please don't go off to work today! I feel completely lost when you're not here..." etc. etc.), you'd soon get sick of her.
 
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