New Relationship, Seeking Tips From Those With Experience

OneBigThistle

New member
First off, the story! I know its already in the introduction post I made, but I will be more detailed here:

Me and my boyfriend of three and a half years had considered on several occasions adding a third party to our relationship. We didn't really know much about polyamory, other than its basic definition, and we didn't feel like we were missing anything in our relationship. We just felt like we had enough love to keep on sharing, and it would be nice to receive more too. We've had lots of people come and go as very close friends but until recently never had anyone who we [both] felt a bond with strong enough to let into our relationship.

That all changed when our best friend posed the question to us "Why isn't three way marriage legal? I'd love to marry you two some day.", and we discovered she was the perfect fit for our relationship. She already planned to move in with us when we have a place together. We already know her interests, her kinks, her insecurities. She already knows ours. She was basically our girlfriend without the title already. Now its official, she is our girlfriend and we couldn't be happier.

Unfortunately our relationship is a triangle of distance. I live in Ontario Canada, my girlfriend lives in New York USA, and our boyfriend lives in Tennessee USA. All three of us have dealt with long distance before, but with two people it is much easier to plan physical contact than with three. We worry about being able to align both schedules and budgets. Still, we have an end goal of two to three years to get all of us under one roof. We've moved to talking about the future fast! The topic brought up some questions:

- We know it is not legally okay for the three of us to be legally married, but is it legally okay to have a ceremony and rings for the three of us? Does the okayness or lack there of change based on if we live together?

- Which states tend to be most open to Polyamory on a social scale? With two out of three of us moving, its not a stretch for everyone to find a new location.

-How do we come out to parents? For me proudly showing off my relationship means dropping huge amounts of information on them "I'm pansexual" "I'm polyamourus" "My girlfriend is transgender", are all statements that would be taken from the act. For them, my girlfriend has already been verbally abused for being trans without the addition of an alternative relationship style, and my boyfriend grew up with a strict southern father. Is it safe to come out?

- Is there a place we can go where our rights will be protected? For example where we can't be discriminated against in the work place by means of 'moral clauses'?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I'm very fresh meat! XD I'd have had much more if I hadn't already been browsing the forums and reading the resources, but I apologize if I missed something and asked a question that has already been answered. Also if anyone has any general tips, tricks, pointers, or words of advice that might be unique to this style situation, please let me know.
 
We know it is not legally okay for the three of us to be legally married, but is it legally okay to have a ceremony and rings for the three of us? Does the okayness or lack there of change based on if we live together?

It depends on the state. I live in Maryland, and just having a ceremony would make someone guilty of bigamy. So when I had a ceremony with my husband, PunkRock, we went and had it in Virginia, because they don't care about ceremonies. Honestly, I don't see Maryland actually prosecuting us regardless, but I wanted to make sure we weren't breaking any laws here. As far as living together, many states have laws against cohabitation. Whether or not those states link cohabitation with bigamy is also a crapshoot. You really need to look at the exact wording in the laws of the states you are interested in moving to - the word you are looking for is purported.

- Which states tend to be most open to Polyamory on a social scale? With two out of three of us moving, its not a stretch for everyone to find a new location.

States in general all have different laws, and enforcement is a whole different topic. What you really need to concentrate on as far as who is more open about things, is to look at individual communities. That a state has laws you can work with might not matter if you end up in a really conservative neighborhood.


I have to run now but will write more later.
 
Hi Thistle,

I don't have any precise answers for your questions, but I will try to approach them in general terms.

Technically the Law tends to state that any relationship of more than two people with the "appearance" of a marriage is illegal. What makes something "appear" to be a marriage can be rings, a ceremony, and cohabitation. On the other hand, such laws are not often sternly enforced. You have to anger the government, raise some kind of big public stink, get the attention of high-up officials, before they start looking for "crimes" they can charge you with. If you just quietly go about your daily life, it's unlikely you'll have a problem. Possibly a big public ceremony would flag you, but I've heard of people doing those before with no negative consequences.

Check out the thread, Poly-Friendly Cities. It will give you an idea of where some good areas are to live and be poly. I don't know which states are best, I just have a list of cities. Canada as a whole has passed a law stating that polyamory is okay (but that polygamy is not okay). In the United States, the Pacific Northwest is possibly the most poly-friendly area in the world. Portland and Seattle are kind of tied for first. However, the Eastern parts of Oregon and Washington are a lot more conservative.

The consequences of coming out are highly unpredictable. Often you'll find that people you thought would support you, do not, and that the people you were most afraid to tell, take the news just fine. Some people come out, others don't. It depends on many factors.

I don't think polyamory is strongly protected by the Law in any state or province. In particular, I don't think it is strongly protected in the workplace. If an employer wants to use a "moral clause" as a reason to fire someone, they can. The only good news here is that most employers probably won't do that. Banks and the military might.

Others have done more research than I have about laws and protections. Bluebird for instance ;). Also JessicaBurde. Specific threads on the topic are, US Poly Laws or, Where are all the poly friendly places? and, Polyamory Legal Challenges. Check those out for starters.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
As Bluebird indicates, it's a REALLY good idea to do a little research. What digging used to require a trip to the courthouse (or finding an attorney) now takes seconds on the Internet.

So, to stick with the Maryland example, both adultery & bigamy are illegal. Both may be tried as criminal AND civil offenses. Adultery is considered a misdemeanor, only applies to male/female couples :rolleyes:, & might result in a $10 fine. :) In contrast, bigamy is an outright felony, risking up to nine years in prison.

Elsewhere, the definition of bigamy might involve fraudulently obtaining, filling out, or filing a marriage certificate. Maryland is NOT so easygoing -- some critics say this is because the state has for many years sucked at keeping track of such things, so it's placing blame elsewhere rather than fixing the system... but there ya go. The specific prohibition:
While lawfully married to a living person, a person may not enter into a marriage ceremony with another.
Chances are that this would never reach the attention of the legal system, much less be prosecuted... unless maybe a soon-to-be-ex-partner brings it up in civil court.
 
Since you all just recently decided to become a throuple, but won't be all togeether in person for some time, isn't it a bit premature to be worrying about ceremonies and coming out? With one of you in Canada, one in NY, and another in TN, I would think the distance will be the biggest challenge. How are you going to advance things so that there is an actual "romantic" partnership among you three instead of just three friends who are all far away from each other and Skyping or emailing or whatever? IOW, how will it be consummated, so to speak?
 
- We know it is not legally okay for the three of us to be legally married, but is it legally okay to have a ceremony and rings for the three of us? Does the okayness or lack there of change based on if we live together?

It is not legally ok in my state but I did it anyway. Nothing has happened in 4 years. But I also do not appear on the radar of the government. I get bombarded all the time by the media wanting to interview me or offer a reality show. No I am not going to put my family in the public eye.

- Which states tend to be most open to Polyamory on a social scale? With two out of three of us moving, its not a stretch for everyone to find a new location.

No one really gives a crap about my personal life tbh. I don't worry what others think. I would live where you want to live.

-How do we come out to parents? For me proudly showing off my relationship means dropping huge amounts of information on them "I'm pansexual" "I'm polyamourus" "My girlfriend is transgender", are all statements that would be taken from the act. For them, my girlfriend has already been verbally abused for being trans without the addition of an alternative relationship style, and my boyfriend grew up with a strict southern father. Is it safe to come out?

I am not apart of your family I do not know if it would be safe for you to come out to your family.

- Is there a place we can go where our rights will be protected? For example where we can't be discriminated against in the work place by means of 'moral clauses'?

No we are not a protected class.
 
Adultery is considered a misdemeanor, only applies to male/female couples , & might result in a $10 fine
.

The lawyer I spoke to told me this would only happen as a charge against someone in the case of a divorce. So, don't get legally married to either person, and you will stay in the clear. If that is an issue, then a $10 fine isn't so bad.

In contrast, bigamy is an outright felony, risking up to nine years in prison. Elsewhere, the definition of bigamy might involve fraudulently obtaining, filling out, or filing a marriage certificate. Maryland is NOT so easygoing.

Yep, lots of states make a bigamy charge for actually filing the marriage document. Having a ceremony, they don't care about. Maryland though, says just having a ceremony makes you guilty. The lawyer I spoke with indicated that if I went to another state and had a ceremony, did zero paperwork and came back, that there would be no issues if the state we went to didn't have a law about ceremonies. Maryland can't charge me for something that took place elsewhere.

We have, however, done everything we can legally to have our marriage recognized - I went to court and changed my middle name to PunkRock's last name. We share a joint checking, we are on each other's life insurance and retirement accounts. There's a lot you can do and still stay legal.

I also second what other posters have said - there is no rush here. If you haven't all lived together, I would try that before planning any ceremonies, legal or not. From what I've read, in-person triads seem to deteriorate within a year or so, especially if there is a long-standing couple looking to "add" someone to the existing relationship.

Also, not sure if the 3 of you have discussed this, but adding babies and children to the mix may also increase your exposure to legal issues - it only takes one disgruntled neighbor, coworker, family member or even a stranger - to file a report to social services. Depending on the worker, they could pull your children out of your home. It might not stick long term, but I personally would never want to risk that.

My advice would be to relocate together to a poly-friendly state and try cohabitating for a few years. If the 3 of you can just stay "single" and never marry each other legally, that is the best way to avoid prosecution of any sort at this point in time.
 
Oh, also wanted to say that I did a lot of research about various states and wrote about it in my journal in the beginning of August, 2015. Laws change all the time though, and I am not a lawyer.
 
- We know it is not legally okay for the three of us to be legally married, but is it legally okay to have a ceremony and rings for the three of us? Does the okayness or lack there of change based on if we live together?

- Is there a place we can go where our rights will be protected? For example where we can't be discriminated against in the work place by means of 'moral clauses'?
It actually might be okay to have a commitment ceremony as a triad as long as none of you are legally married. I am not quite sure about this, but it is worth checking out.

There are several countries in Europe where polyamorous families are legally protected, but you might not want to relocate quite that far...
 
Since you all just recently decided to become a throuple, but won't be all togeether in person for some time, isn't it a bit premature to be worrying about ceremonies and coming out? With one of you in Canada, one in NY, and another in TN, I would think the distance will be the biggest challenge. How are you going to advance things so that there is an actual "romantic" partnership among you three instead of just three friends who are all far away from each other and Skyping or emailing or whatever? IOW, how will it be consummated, so to speak?

We all travel regularly anyway. That's how things proceed even when we aren't in the same place. We also video call nightly. As far as planning too early, we plan early because it gives us comfort for the future. And even though the triad is new the feelings aren't. Only the officialness. Those things will clearly wait for the future, but its nice to have a plan now.

My advice would be to relocate together to a poly-friendly state and try cohabitating for a few years. If the 3 of you can just stay "single" and never marry each other legally, that is the best way to avoid prosecution of any sort at this point in time.

Well, two out of three of us will be marrying in the future for the sake of me staying in the US. Its the easiest way to get me there and keep me there.





Thank you all for your support and input! All three of us have been reading this thread, and just the fact that conversation is happening is hugely comforting.
 
Don't know if any said anything about about common law marriage (didn't read all the responses :p)

Double check states for Common Law marriage and what are the laws pertaining to that. Common Law is recognized in Colorado and just saying you're married or having a ceremony legally binds you as married and if you do a ceremony with 3 people you could run in to legal problems there. Just a thought :D
 
-How do we come out to parents?

Many people don't and live perfectly happy lives, sometimes having pleasant visits with family with or without their partners.

I told my mom explicitly because she's cool and loves me unconditionally. It was fun to explode her brain with the relationship zigzag, including my girlfriend's trans husband, his boyfriend who's my former boss, and the fact that her kids' other dad is gay and they were literally conceived with a turkey baster and now live in both homes pretty freely. My dad, on the other hand, I've only come out implicitly by mentioning "my girlfriend" interchangeably with just using her name in contexts that suggest more partner than friend. That's not because I worry about what he'd think, he's great, but it just hasn't really come up and been necessary. My gf doesn't travel with me for holidays to where my parents live because she's got her family here.

For them, my girlfriend has already been verbally abused for being trans without the addition of an alternative relationship style... Is it safe to come out?

No. That relationship probably isn't safe for her in general, unless the abuser has accepted that they're an abuser and gone for help. My gf's husband has pretty much had to cut off ties with his family because everything they say and do is still so hurtful.

my boyfriend grew up with a strict southern father. Is it safe to come out?

He's unlikely to be accepting of it, but his strictness as a father is irrelevant now that his son is grown-up an out of the house. Beyond that, only the boyfriend really knows the father well enough to know whether it's worth the risk and hassle. If you guys want to do holidays with his family or something, then you'd have to... otherwise, probably not worth the bother.

Is there a place we can go where our rights will be protected? For example where we can't be discriminated against in the work place by means of 'moral clauses'?

Not constitutionally, but lots of unions prevent you from being fired for anything but a really good reason that's relevant to the job, and even then you usually get multiple attempts to fix the problem... so if you can time these transitions with the next upswing of the economy, and meanwhile position yourself with the skills to get a union job... and hey, benefits and a pension too! Get three union jobs!
 
Not constitutionally, but lots of unions prevent you from being fired for anything but a really good reason that's relevant to the job, and even then you usually get multiple attempts to fix the problem... so if you can time these transitions with the next upswing of the economy, and meanwhile position yourself with the skills to get a union job... and hey, benefits and a pension too! Get three union jobs!

Ooh! This is really good to know! I've never been in a unionized job before, so I don't know much about them, but it looks like it is time for me to do more reading. Thank you!!
 
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