Now He's Not Ready

vanille

New member
Some of you may remember me. About a month ago, I posted a thread about my husband sleeping with a prostitute. After months of researching, we found ourselves in a limbo. We were ready to try something new, but neither of us had taken the first step. So after a lot of discussions, we agreed that he could sleep with a prostitute in Amsterdam.

It was hard at first. Really hard. But after a couple of weeks, I settled into the idea of actually being poly, instead of hypothetically being poly. And I like it. I don't resent him and I feel close to him still.

One of the things he said was that he struggled with the idea of me and another man. He figured he would be able to handle the idea better if he was the first to go. I agreed with it and let him go.

Now.. it's been a month almost and he's not ready for me to be with other men. He is okay with me dating other women. He simply can't handle the idea at the moment. It gets a little complicated since I don't work, he supports me while I go to school. It's an added greivance that he isn't comfortable paying for me to sleep with other men (as he puts it).

Okay .. he's not comfortable. I understand that. I'm not going to date men. I love him and if he asked me, I could be mono with him. BUT. There is this nagging in the back of my mind. I feel cheated somehow. I feel like we aren't equals. I feel like I sacrificed even though I knew it would be hard - but he won't do the same. I feel like I was brave and dealt with my personal issues. We've been together for ten years.. we haven't had a break in seven years. So neither of us has been with another person since. It was hard adjusting to the fact that it's no longer the case that I'm the only person he has slept with in seven years.

Part of me was a little excited to try something new. But I understand his logic and love him enough to be patient with him.

Can anyone give me some advice or insight? I'm not looking for validation for my whining about not getting everything I wanted. I'm just wondering if anyone has some thoughts on the issue.

ETA: I am only bicurious. So being allowed to explore with women is not a huge comfort.
 
What does he mean, he'd be paying you to have sex with other men? Because you don't have any income? But it was okay to spend -- what was it, $100? -- on two prostitutes for him because he's the "bread winner" and it's his money? And it would be okay for you to be with a woman on his dime? Oh, of course, because that's a turn-on and he's a sexist who feels your being with a woman isn't a threat (a woman isn't like real person to have a relationship with, anyway, right?).

I would ask him if he is your partner or not, because if he sees everything so separately, there is a real problem before you even get into polyamory.

How would he be paying for you to go on a date with someone else? That makes no sense. Wouldn't your date be treating you, in most cases? Or is your husband going to keep track of how much gas you use and what laundry costs for you to see someone else? He needs to grow the fuck up. Do you have any money of your own (ie., from student loans)?

Now.. it's been a month almost and he's not ready for me to be with other men. ... I feel cheated somehow. I feel like we aren't equals. I feel like I sacrificed even though I knew it would be hard - but he won't do the same. I feel like I was brave and dealt with my personal issues.

Yes, you were very very brave and it certainly isn't fair. Have you told him this? Doesn't he know what you went through when he was with the hookers? I mean, the first one didn't go well and you sent him back out to find another one, even though you knew you had issues to work out. Come on, where's his appreciation? In essence, he is abandoning you now.

It may be that, simply, more time is needed for you both to adjust. Find out what it is that is really bothering him. It's got to be more than just supporting you financially. I mean, you are his beloved wife and partner, not his pet.

Sorry if I'm coming on too strong, but this just really irks me after what you went through willingly for him, and with such a loving, open mind.
 
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Maybe the financials will make more sense if I explain further. I quit working in March to become a full time online student. Now, my graduation date (and hence work start date) depend in how much time I practice on my court reporting machine. Since I quit working and we combined our finances, I didn't put in as much effort as I should have. Basically, we made an agreement that he would support me through school if I put in the extra effort to graduate early.

I didn't put in all of the effort I should have, and now he supports me completely still. He worked really hard to get out of school. He makes good money. There's a huge inbalance in terms of finances. We don't struggle, but that's because of his work and effort.

So if he is uncomfortable with "paying for my dates", I think it might actually stem from him knowing that there is a deeper issue at hand - that I did not live up to my end of the deal.

I am working hard now to fix that, but what's done is done.

ETA: Also, he was dissapointed in his Amsterdam experience. He says that if it's a matter of being equal, he wishes I would just sleep with some guy and call it even.
 
Do you know why he is not ok with you seeing other men? Insecurity, jealousy, feeling inadequate? He needs to be able to tell you why - and you need to be able to hear his reasons why. (That last bit can be hard.) If he needs some more time to get more comfortable with the idea, well that seems reasonable. A month is not a long time and, as you know from your experience, poly can be a difficult thing to wrap one's mind around. But if he never wants to allow you to see other men, ever, that is unfair - no matter who's paying.
 
I have a mono boyfriend that has struggled with the same thing in terms of me having sex with other NEW men. Most men do, mono, poly or whatever.

Its hypocritical and an ultimatum for him to be changing up the plan now, but what do you do? I have struggled with that for years! You can read about how it panned out and is panning out in my blog.... this time last year (early December) was a mess! It might be a good place to start. Eventually you will just have to do it and see where it goes. Maybe agree with your date to go for a walk and a coffee or something cheap. Who says dates have to cost much. And who says you have to fuck someone just because you are on a date!

I think it might be helpful to set up the boundaries you could both follow. Talk about how it will pan out and don't back down from what you need to feel good and whole and have good and whole self esteem and self worth. Money shmuney, that is completely irrelevant. Its your turn girl. Go do it. You can date and see what happens no?
 
...my graduation date (and hence work start date) depend in how much time I practice on my court reporting machine. Since I quit working and we combined our finances, I didn't put in as much effort as I should have. ... he supports me completely still. He worked really hard to get out of school. He makes good money. There's a huge inbalance in terms of finances. We don't struggle, but that's because of his work and effort.

So if he is uncomfortable with "paying for my dates", I think it might actually stem from him knowing that there is a deeper issue at hand - that I did not live up to my end of the deal.

This is real meaty relationship stuff the two of you need to discuss and work on. It's really not about poly. It's about feeling like equal partners - for him to not feel taken advantage of, and yet also to understand that sometimes things don't go as planned, and for you not to feel guilty or like you did something wrong by not sticking to the schedule. I can tell you are beating yourself up about it, and this is feeding into your insecurities (about your chosen profession versus his, about you not "working as hard" as you feel he does, etc.) and pissing you off because he's letting it feed into his insecurities about poly and being unfair to you. Don't let that stuff fester.

The one important element of any game plan is that the plan can change. Sit down and have a heart-to-heart. Let him know how sorry you are about not graduating early or when you had hoped. But tell him that he is not allowed to hold that over your head. Forgiveness means forgiving and moving on, not holding onto stuff and throwing in someones' face later on. Hash it out, renegotiate, keep talking. The poly is a separate issue.

And besides, remind him that just because you two chose to embrace poly, doesn't mean you are going to have sex with everyone you date. Poly isn't all about the sex, and you can start out going on dates without doing anything physical. While it is unfair that he doesn't want you with another man after you encouraged him to visit a hooker in Amsterdam, just because he felt the need to fuck someone other than you in order to find out if you were okay with poly, doesn't mean you have to run right out and do it too. It doesn't have to be tit for tat. You can take it in stages. Lots of poly people do that, slowly allowing for whatever they are comfortable with, kissing, petting, whatever - there's alot in between having coffee and having sex.

I think you two both need to be more gentle with yourselves and each other, and at the same time, be willing to own up to and call each other on your shit (issues). You may very well both need more time to proceed, and to do so slowly, but do it with eyes and hearts open.
 
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If this is important to you, stand up for it. I think you were amazing to let him try things that made you uncomfortable. After dealing with my husband doing something like having sex with a prostitute in a foreign country, NO, I would not be all "oh sure honey, hamper my ability to get to know any other man in a non PG way", since that did not seem to be your agreement ahead of time?

There are alternatives like agreeing that you can go on DATES with people who indicate interest (OKcupid.com etc can be handy, could be people who want to meet you, get to know you, but maybe it isn't as threatening as "oh hon, met this guy on the street who came onto me, thought I was hot, and wants to see me again) and you could actively choose to go on a date with somebody you think you have no romantic interest in but who might be a good friend (OKC's friend match % searches are pretty cool), maybe he would find that less stressful and be willing to talk through the feelings he has as they occur.

There are plenty of free or cheap things to do on dates, you can cook dinner or have dates cook dinner for you, although of course I don't think his argument that he'd be "paying" for you to date men is really what is bothering him, he seems to just be making the list of reasons why he doesn't want you to date men as long as possible so he can has lots of evidence to justify why he thinks it's a bad idea.

I dated my boyfriend a month (and would likely date anybody that long) before talking with my husband about getting the ball rolling on being sexual. Waiting gives us plenty of time to get to know somebody, and to discuss anything stressing us. I figure there is no rush to sex, and prefer to date people who feel the same (or at least respect that choice). I don't know how you see relationships unfolding for yourself timeline wise, or if you've communicated that well to your husband. He should understand that your goal is not at all the same as his - to fuck somebody to get it over with. So doing that would not mean you felt you were now "even"

I imagine your husband has some issues that are going to blow up for you soon, not sure if he's really being honest about what is bothering him, and if he isn't working on dealing with that, shit gonna hit the fan. Wish I had a good link/book to refer you to, especially since he has different desires than you (sex when is seems possible with hot chicks for a one night stand or whatever vs. sex with people who care about you) it seems like you still have a lot of things to talk about, and figure out why you are having problems/discrepancies being able to function in different ways with your different desires. Oh wait, read Opening Up by Tristan Taormino, discuss the checklists in there, etc.
 
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I go with what RP said big time. I Really, really hate hypocrites...and he should have seen this day coming when he was walking the red light district. I Don't remember him saying that because of his experience and your reaction that he wanted to take this off the table at the time.

Sorry honey can't have it both ways. Time to do the work, read the threads, go to therapy...whatever it takes.
 
A month isn't that long a stretch of time. You pushed yourself when you may not have really been ready, which was not necessarily advisable, and he's not obligated to do the same. But he IS obligated to be whole-heartedly trying if that's what this was all about in the first place. So, that's the real question, to me. Is he committed to following through with opening up, or is he unwilling to do the hard work, even if it takes him longer? It can be hard to tell the difference between someone who is stalling and someone who is working, but there should be signs, or hopefully he can just honestly tell you which it is?

"Also, he was dissapointed in his Amsterdam experience. He says that if it's a matter of being equal, he wishes I would just sleep with some guy and call it even."

Now THIS is ridiculous. "Equal" does NOT mean evening the score. Casual sex was what he wanted and you did the hard work to give it to him. If casual sex is not what you want, then offering it to you in no way makes things equal. And saying he's ok with you being with a woman is also just silly when that's not what you want either. Geez. The fact that he thinks it matters that he didn't like sex with the prostitute seems really egotistical. Like, if he'd enjoyed it and wanted more, THEN you should be free to have whatever you want, but since *he* didn't find it satisfying you're owed nothing?? What does that have to do with anything? Is what's ok or not ok for you to do solely based on what he enjoys?

All that said... maybe he really can't do this. Maybe he's not cut out for poly. Not everyone is. But I think all here are agreed that he should try and find out, for your sake, like you did for him with casual sex.
 
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One of the concerns he has voiced is that it hurts him that I would want to find another man when he apparently fulfills all of my needs. Okay. Okay. I know that didn't come out right. See... we started on this poly journey initially because my sex drive is not as high as his. We have sex about every other day, but it's not enough! So, the idea was to bring another woman into the relationship.

After a lot of talks though, I realized that if we were going to open the relationship up, I didn't want to be denied any feelings I might have for a guy while he can sleep with whoever he wants. Especially since I'm not even sure if I am sexually attracted to girls.

I love him and will wait with him. I understand what you are saying about whether he is stalling or working through things. I told him that. I said, "Hey.. for me... it was like standing at the top of a cliff about to go cliff diving for the first time. I wavered and was scared. But eventually.. I jumped. I feel like you aren't even going to try to jump."
 
Oh, of course, because that's a turn-on and he's a sexist who feels your being with a woman isn't a threat (a woman isn't like real person to have a relationship with, anyway, right?).
This. I keep getting the feeling that he hopes I'll find a girl to bring into the relationship for both of us.

Do you have any money of your own (ie., from student loans)?
No and that's a problem. If I was working, I think we would both feel a lot better. We would know that I'm not here because he takes care of me. (This isn't why I'm with him, but it's at the back of both of our minds sometimes)

Yes, you were very very brave and it certainly isn't fair. Have you told him this? Doesn't he know what you went through when he was with the hookers?
Yes, we have been talking in depth about all of this.

I have struggled with that for years! You can read about how it panned out and is panning out in my blog.... this time last year (early December) was a mess! It might be a good place to start.
I will check it out!

I can tell you are beating yourself up about it, and this is feeding into your insecurities (about your chosen profession versus his, about you not "working as hard" as you feel he does, etc.) and pissing you off because he's letting it feed into his insecurities about poly and being unfair to you.
Very very true. But I only have myself to blame and I'm the only one who can get myself out of this mess.

I dated my boyfriend a month (and would likely date anybody that long) before talking with my husband about getting the ball rolling on being sexual. Waiting gives us plenty of time to get to know somebody, and to discuss anything stressing us.
<snip>
Oh wait, read Opening Up by Tristan Taormino, discuss the checklists in there, etc.
I don't think he's going to be comfortable with me meeting anyone until it looks like someone is interested in him first :(

I will check that book out!

A month isn't that long a stretch of time. You pushed yourself when you may not have really been ready, which was not necessarily advisable, and he's not obligated to do the same.
<snip>
Is he committed to following through with opening up, or is he unwilling to do the hard work, even if it takes him longer? It can be hard to tell the difference between someone who is stalling and someone who is working, but there should be signs, or hopefully he can just honestly tell you which it is?
<snip>
All that said... maybe he really can't do this. Maybe he's not cut out for poly. Not everyone is.
I am trying to keep in mind that just because I could take the leap, doesn't mean I should absolutely force him into jumping too.

Eh.. I don't think he wants to do the work right now. I've asked him ... but I just don't get the impression he wants to try. He would rather not face the hard experience. He often says that now that he's tried it, he's not even sure if he wants to try poly anymore. But at the same time, I get the feeling that if someone showed him interest, he would be much more interested in trying poly.

That last bit is true.. he may not be cut out for this.
 
My husband resisted re-opening up our relationship for a couple of years, and as soon as he realized there was somebody he liked, he warmed up to the idea in the space of a few hours, so I imagine your husband might do the same.

If you are OK with waiting for somebody to show him interest before you actively attempt to date.... is he LOOKING for interest? What do you think would qualify as such for him, somebody who wanted a one night stand or somebody who wanted to date him regularly? Are you OK with him looking, or do you feel stuck thinking that's not fair, because it is your turn?

Obvious problem with that is, lets say he starts having partners, and then you are "permitted" to date men, so you try dating and realize poly isn't right for you after all, then there's a whole other can of worms to deal with. Even worse if he starts finding partners and doesn't become OK with you dating men.

Hard place for you to be in. My limited and biased experience tells me that in general, men don't want to do the work. It is hard for them, so I don't blame them, but it sure is tiring when you know it needs to be done (and should be done, whether mono or poly). I personally am trying to focus on not "needing" my partner to do work/grow as a person, because I've found stressing how important that is to me has been having negative impact instead of being helpful.

I do think it's great that your husband seems to be good at being honest and open to the "best of his abilities" so try to appreciate that if you can, even if you wish he'd be able to actively identify what is really going on in his head and heart so you could get to the bottom of it and deal with the core issues.
 
Here is my fear. He suddenly gets an interested girl (he is still active on dating site). They try it out. He lets me date because he's doing it. Then it doesn't work out with them and he is left alone again. I have a feeling he will take back his allowance and by then I may be attached to this other man.

I can understand him not wanting me to get serious with a guy until he has a girl to take his mind off of us. But I don't want to find myself in a situation where I have to choose between them.

I agree, I'm trying to let him be without interference on my part. I encourage him to talk to me and I try not to judge. Which can be hard since I'm still a little hurt by how things have gone down. I end up feeling guilty for wanting what we agreed to.
 
I can understand him not wanting me to get serious with a guy until he has a girl to take his mind off of us.

Why? I actually see this as problematic. You opened up to him having sex with someone else even though you didn't have a male sex partner lined up -- why does he need to go first every step of the way? Because of his insecurities? Dating someone else won't cure those. If he's serious about giving you this he needs to do so because he's ready to be brave, *really* brave, not just armored by a distracting gf who, as you pointed out, could disappear.

Where are your needs in this? Why would it be ok for you to again be the one to suffer while he takes the new step first... after all, if he gets a gf first you won't have a bf to distract you from the difficult feelings that it will inevitably bring up unless you meet a guy the very next day after he starts dating.

Unless I'm missing something, this just seems way lopsided to me.

And as for the money stuff... seriously, coffee dates. Costs a few bucks. It's kind of troubling if even a few bucks is subject to a veto on his part. Yeah, you're living on his money, but isn't the idea of a marriage that you support each other through hard times? Or, you could always tell any potential new guy "This is a little embarrassing but I'm broke right now, so until I'm out of school if you want to go out anywhere I can't pick up the bill... that said, I'm more than happy to stay in and chat." Or, hell, walk in the park.
 
I hope I don't appear meek and passive... or just justifying situations that are wrong.

Maybe I'm stronger than him? I'm not sure. But isn't it the consensus to go at the person with the slowest pace? I don't NEED to date. Sure, it would be fun. But it's not like I've already met someone, fallen in love with them, but am barred by my husband. I'm not in any pain by waiting.

The only thing that bothers me is when he says he's not sure he will be able to handle it after the fact. Like ... he was trying to explain that he will feel distanced from me and may not want to stay? This is something relatively new, so I'm still confused by it. If it's the case, then this hurts me more than anything. Because what he said before the prostitute, was that he wasn't sure if he could continue our relationship if we didn't try this. I'm not sure if this was stemming from his unfulfilled sexual needs or what. But it just sounds backwards to me.

And now he says that he's not even sure if he wants us to be poly... while still maintaining a profile on OKC and responding to girls if they message.

I'm just always left being confused.
 
Is Armani reading this thread? I think it might be good to hear from him on this topic.

No. And there's nothing too new here. We do talk about everything. I'm sure I didn't paint him in a beautiful light (though I tried my best to defend him).

I do love him and am willing to do what he needs.
 
I get what you're saying about moving at the pace of the slower person, there are just some troubling things here. I do think he needs to come here, get some perspective, and explain what the heck is going on. It's not ok to keep threatening your relationship ("I'll leave if you can't give me this! I'll leave if you need this!") and acting in ways that make you feel unvalued (doesn't want you to be poly but is actively entertaining potential new partners). Maybe seeing it all laid out and getting the chance to explain himself will help break some of these patterns before resentment builds up that could really damage your partnership.
 
What he has wanted since the beginning is a triad or V. Am I perhaps pushing it by wanting to include men as well? I mean .. boundaries are an issue right? I mean, it's okay for someone to say "Hey. I'm not cool with that" - right?
 
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