Commitment beyond Exclusivity

I think honesty and respect are part of commitment, but not all. I also think you can have different kinds of commitment, including commitment to your friends.

To me, "committed" is the opposite of "casual", but not the same thing as "exclusive" at all. Commitment means we wish the relationship to last as long as it can, and we should work together to solve any problems in the relationship. It's not something we can (or should) walk away from easily, but it's not the "till death do us part" kind of deal either.

I agree. I am committed to my friends, definitely. It's just that that is a less clearly defined arrangement (with most of them anyway).


@IP : I enjoyed reading your thoughts about commitment. They were very spot-on : I definitely agree with what you had the say. I can never give a life-long guarantee, on anything. Assuming otherwise is simply silly and naive.
 
Ah - found it! (I seem to remember having had a similar discussion recently :)) - found it here.
Okay, so my mind is stuck on the same track lately! :p Thanks. It was good to re-read that.

I do regard myself as being in a committed relationship with my boyfriend. This commitment entails the same things that my commitment to my husband does. To me this means that we share an intention to build our lives together. Sharing goals and resources. That we make choices that foster our relationship(s) with the intention of overcoming any obstacles together. That we are working toward "happily ever after."
Thanks for that perspective. That's the great thing about forums, being able to see all the various ways people handle things, all the possibilities.

I agree that you and your boyfriend have different definitions of "commitment" - I think mine aligns more along the lines of what you are thinking: mutual obligations, financial support, moving together, etc.

There's nothing wrong with "less committed" relationships - if that is what develops and is comfortable for everyone involved. I think problems arise, though, when people have different expectations and aren't communicating them effectively.
To be honest, as I sort through my various conversations with him, I think the truth is he's been far more of a swinger than poly. I think he has some preconceived ideas himself about what's possible and is probably afraid to ask himself too many questions. As much outside my experience as this is for me, I think it's equally outside of anything he's ever experienced or expected. I don't think he's ever had a relationship he's wanted to continue the way he wants this one to.
 
I noticed that there was some talk about the word "commitment" in some recently active threads here in the forum, so decided to try and re-activate this very useful thread here.

I'm in agreement with those who say...

  • There are many things people in relationships can commit to
, other than to exclusivity (that list is endless! It includes items like honesty, kindness [as an intention], not to run away just because something has become difficult...).

  • Exclusivity (sexual, emotional...) is anything but the only valid standard for deciding who is committed and who is not.
 
This is a pretty neat thread.

I'm usually able to explain what I'm doing to monofolk in such a way that while they might say they "could never" (usually they say this) they wind up with "but it seems to make you happy, so good for you!" It's the best compromise in understanding we can usually reach...but often they can acknowledge the logic behind many of my points, and how nice it must be to have the kind of ease and honesty I do, and the support and love of so many.

What I seem to encounter a lot, even in more openminded circles such as the kink scene, among mono's is a sort of basic fear that if they are not the partner's only one, then they are surely be compared unfavorably, there is a contest going on, and jealousy is a certainty, a given, a Thing That Will Happen inevitably and cause problems and pain.

Personally, I have never felt or thought that way, ever. Not at puberty, not as a young adult, not during my 18 year faithful marriage, not ever. But I see the world a bit differently from most people I know. I don't hate anyone, I don't have enemies (not even my ex, crazy and scary as he can be) and I don't feel threatened easily. I'm very emotionally steady. I do not yell or scream, I almost never cry, I'm not prone to big feelings when it comes to the typical emotional highs and lows I see people do...though I can sometimes make up my mind that I feel a certain way VERY quickly.

(EDIT: OMG just had a bit of revelation... You guys, do you think that maybe people can accept being wildly negative with emotional displays, including possessiveness and jealousy and feeling threatened and hostile to others...but people are SCARED of "the L word" - LOVE - and inclined to hide joyful or loving feelings or limit them, etc... Is there some kind of ideological link between this behavior in adults in our society, and the fact that with our children, they are permitted a steady diet of violence but expressions of sex, love, and intimacy are verboten, even to the point where little kids exchanging a kiss on the cheek on a playground can be written up for sexual harassment... We are taught/teaching, that hate is more normal and ok than love, all the damn time. WHY DO WE DO THIS??)

Anyways...

I guess I love differently than most.

But the main thing in convincing other people that the way I love is not bad or wrong, is to believe it myself. In the last year or so since getting into poly and the alt community in general, I've learned to give myself permission to be who I am, love as I love, and stop trying to hammer myself into a shape that is more pleasing to what people think is "normal." Again, whether that means loving more than one, or feeling love for someone "too soon" and not being afraid to communicate that, I will lay my cards on the table and if people don't like it, then they don't have to play with me. Because in fact, my emotions are NOT ugly or scary, in and of themselves, and plenty of people see my colors and want to be close to me.

Now back to the core concept of commitment, what really toasts my biscuits is when people assume that since I am not only poly, but SOLO poly...not trying to do family and cohabitation and escalator with anyone...I must just be dating around trying to find the right person to choose for those things, or I am maybe just casually sleeping around, slutting it up and maybe willing to sleep with pretty much anybody. I'm not ashamed to admit that a few men I know have tempted me a bit to play casually, but the odds of it happening with them are not high. But the issue I REALLY have is the expectation that whatever relationships I have are primarily about sex. I have multiple partners, so I must be having orgies all the time and be a total nymphomaniac or something. Nothing could be further from the truth! Not only is sex a lot less frequent than I might sometimes wish, with most of my partners (all but one in fact)...but the main focus and joy of every one of those relationships is the love I have for the PERSON...our intellectual and emotional bonds.

So...I don't know. My relationships aren't committed in the sense that there are demands. We're all very "free will voluntaryist" types. There's no exclusivity and no escalator. But we are damn sure in deeper waters than "casual." We all have our expectations, but none of us are so invested in those expectations, I think, that we'd be furiously freaked out and angry if they were not met by any or all of our partners. We could be hurt, yes...disappointed, certainly...but we respect each other's independent lives too much to clutch at one another like "committed" monofolk seem to do.
 
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(EDIT: OMG just had a bit of revelation... You guys, do you think that maybe people can accept being wildly negative with emotional displays, including possessiveness and jealousy and feeling threatened and hostile to others...but people are SCARED of "the L word" - LOVE - and inclined to hide joyful or loving feelings or limit them, etc... Is there some kind of ideological link between this behavior in adults in our society, and the fact that with our children, they are permitted a steady diet of violence but expressions of sex, love, and intimacy are verboten, even to the point where little kids exchanging a kiss on the cheek on a playground can be written up for sexual harassment... We are taught/teaching, that hate is more normal and ok than love, all the damn time.

Oh yeah. Some people, that is. Lots and lots of folks are -- it seems to me -- just terrified of falling in love. Because it makes them feel so vulnerable... to loss, to exposure, to many things....

I have a friend (and sometimes lover) about 60 miles away whom I love, and who probably loves me too, but I rarely see him. He's always "busy". I'm busy too, but I'd make time for him -- to be together more often. He could make such time, I'm sure. But it doesn't happen. Nevertheless, he goes on having casual sex with strangers. (No affection there, really) .... Go figure!

Odds are (my guess) he's afraid of really opening up to loving me, or anyone other than his husband. (With whom he seems to be more like a buddy and roommate than a lover / husband after decades together. Loving exposes our naked hearts, which can feel so very vulnerable.
 
My V should be proof positive that commitment can exist without exclusivity. We've been together for ten years and plan to make it another hundred (if only we could live that long).
 
I especially like some of the points that Marcus made.

For me, I've always had difficulty getting deeply attached to someone who messes with any commitment. Stealing hotel towels, cheating "just a little" on taxes, regularly bringing office supplies home.

In this, I'm not making any sort of moral judgement. I just can't help but wonder, "How far is she willing to go with this game-playing?" When will it be MY turn to get shafted?
 
An illustration of the previous.

A few decades back, there was a study undertaken to determine social risk factors for contracting syphilis & gonorrhea. The hope was to provide better targeting of outreach efforts.

Basically, it was a poll, collecting data not just on sexual experience & verified incidence of STDs, but everything from birth data to current living situation.

The researchers were dismayed to find no clear causal links to region, income level, parental socioeconomic status, education level, IQ, number of sexual partners, religious affiliation, church attendance... none of the things you'd think might have at least a little predictive value.

In a long poll, there are often "filler" questions. These help to break a suject out of the test-taking mentality, making it a bit more conversational, & thus (theoretically) more likely to get responses that are honest rather than attempting to "please" the researchers.

Someone happened to scan over the fillers, & spotted the ONLY high correlation to lack of STDs --

Seat-belt usage.

Those who said they reflexively put on their seatbelt were MUCH less likely to have had a venereal disease. (Something like 56% correlation.) And because it was such an innocent question, with no clear connection to the bulk of the poll, the responses were likely accurate.

Since then, I've been a little leery of anyone who I need to remind to "belt up."
 
T

What I seem to encounter a lot, even in more openminded circles such as the kink scene, among mono's is a sort of basic fear that if they are not the partner's only one, then they are surely be compared unfavorably, there is a contest going on, and jealousy is a certainty, a given, a Thing That Will Happen inevitably and cause problems and pain.

... do you think that maybe people can accept being wildly negative with emotional displays, including possessiveness and jealousy and feeling threatened and hostile to others...but people are SCARED of "the L word" - LOVE - and inclined to hide joyful or loving feelings or limit them, etc...

....We could be hurt, yes...disappointed, certainly...but we respect each other's independent lives too much to clutch at one another like "committed" monofolk seem to do.

One thing I really appreciated when I first came to this forum about 5 years ago (4?) was the general refusal to lump 'monos' or 'polys' and compare and contrast as if one group was better than the other.

I have seen exactly the opposite. It was my poly XBF who could do and say anything...except the word Love. It was he who insisted there must be emotional boundaries, and that was clearly to protect his core relationship.

His wife developed a huge insecurity about me when she realized he was really in love (although he refused to use that word.) She did not respect his independent life with me at all, and she definitely clutched at him and played all sorts of underhanded games until I threw up my hands and left him rather than put up with her obvious disrespect.

She pretty obviously had a fear of not being at the center of his life and didn't like it at all.

In the wake of me breaking up with him, there were 20 months of wildly negative emotional displays on his part, trying to drag me back into it, trying to re-create what we had and then getting angry, blowing up--and one thing I noticed in going back over our e-mails is that the times he got angriest were the times when I maintained the most peace and told him (I wouldn't put up with being treated that way but) I LOVED HIM, cared for him, and wanted his happiness and peace above all.

Everything you describe--I saw in him, her, or both of them, in spades.
 
One thing I really appreciated when I first came to this forum about 5 years ago (4?) was the general refusal to lump 'monos' or 'polys' and compare and contrast as if one group was better than the other.

I have seen exactly the opposite. It was my poly XBF who could do and say anything...except the word Love. It was he who insisted there must be emotional boundaries, and that was clearly to protect his core relationship.

His wife developed a huge insecurity about me when she realized he was really in love (although he refused to use that word.) She did not respect his independent life with me at all, and she definitely clutched at him and played all sorts of underhanded games until I threw up my hands and left him rather than put up with her obvious disrespect.

She pretty obviously had a fear of not being at the center of his life and didn't like it at all.

In the wake of me breaking up with him, there were 20 months of wildly negative emotional displays on his part, trying to drag me back into it, trying to re-create what we had and then getting angry, blowing up--and one thing I noticed in going back over our e-mails is that the times he got angriest were the times when I maintained the most peace and told him (I wouldn't put up with being treated that way but) I LOVED HIM, cared for him, and wanted his happiness and peace above all.

Everything you describe--I saw in him, her, or both of them, in spades.

You are right and it's a mistake...I apologize, I am looking for shorthand for a bigger concept when I refer to "mono's" or "vanillas" or "muggles" or whatever. I mean people who follow the assumed social script by default. I mean the folks I talk to who could understand me having more than one partner, but find it incredibly odd that they know about one another and are ok with it, let alone they KNOW EACH OTHER and we all hang out together. That's just weird! It's those who assume that one man, one woman, is "normal" and if you mess with that, people must surely be jealous and it's got to be all dramatic, and whatever.

The people who don't get it, who can't imagine poly "working"...

Certainly anyone is capable of emotional immaturity or emotional maturity, of being very self aware and respectful of others, or not, of 100 different traits, and mono or poly isn't the deciding factor of that.

For what it's worth, the kink folks I know have similar views of the vanillas.

Ultimately though what we are talking about isn't monos or vanillas, it's people who are afraid of their own truths and those held by others. Those who can't imagine a relationship being real if the point of it isn't to make and raise babies in the burbs. Unless there's a REASON that isn't your FAULT and then well...you get by as well as you can, poor little thing, so glad someone at least loves you... I get the same sense when I speak to women who have chosen not to have children. Others in their lives try to tell them they just don't understand the whole point of LIVING is to make babies. For instance. There are lots of ways in which many are thoroughly indoctrinated into the cult of "this is the one right way to live."

I don't deal with a ton of these narrow minded folk in my day to day life. My family, my coworkers, most people I know and talk to...are fortunately, fairly openminded. Part of that is my geographical location, I think. But let me find a big, public, newsie post on Facebook and watch the conformists go off about how shallow, selfish, ungodly and hedonistic we all are with our weird lifestyles. :rolleyes: It's out there.
 
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