What the heck is love?

AnotherConfused

New member
Hello,

I don't have a question so much as I just want to hear the thoughts of like-minded people.

I found this site last summer when a long term friendship started getting passionate, although I am happily married. I was amazed to read about polyamory and realize things about myself I'd long struggled with, and with everyone's encouraging comments I was able to have some wonderfully frank talks with my husband about it all. He accepts that I fall in love with others, and I accept that he doesn't want me having sex with anyone but him. He also doesn't want to hear much about my feelings for other men, and I've been mostly fine this way.

Right now there are three men occupying my thoughts. My husband, "H", is someone I could praise for pages and pages. I don't know how I got so lucky.

Then the long term friend (since before I met H), who had me so confused last year. "L" lives a couple of hours away but we talk on the phone, and I can tell him absolutely anything. Unlike my husband, L loves and is attracted to many people like I am. When my libido is low it just takes a little visit or phone call with him and he has me feeling like the sexiest woman on the planet, and off I go to the marital bed. H knows that L turns me on and that I don't have sex with L. I think L improves my marriage.

These days suddenly I am strongly attracted to a man I dance with. (I go social dancing, sometimes alone and sometimes with my husband.) I can't say it's a sexual attraction exactly; "D" is 30 years my senior and nothing special to look at. It's the subtle communication of our bodies when we dance, and the way we look at each other, and the quiet conversations on the dance floor. I would like to dance with him all night. He feels the same.

Are these all "love"?

Maybe because it's the newest attraction, but I can spend hours daydreaming about D and the little things said on the dance floor, the funny little smile on his face when he pulls me close, and somehow this excites me more than a recent visit with L involving X-rated conversation and kissing, or a long sensuous evening with H including more orgasms than I can count. I think that I don't even want my interactions with D to grow to the no-holds-barred level of my conversations with L, and I don't want sex with either L or D, not only because my husband is against it but because the relationships would lose something -something about flirting around the edges of what's permitted. Something about the subtlety of the chase, maybe. D is married anyway, and paid dearly for an affair he had decades ago, so I definitely don't want to get him into trouble.

Polyamorous people, do you have these kinds of relationships? Connections that excite you, but aren't meant to lead anywhere? If my lifestyle permitted more sexual relationships, I think I would still want something like with D, with mystery and subtlety and evenings that end with sighs of longing. Am I just crushing, maybe?

I'd appreciate anyone's feedback, or stories. What are the shades of love?
 
Love comes in many flavors. Agape, eros, caritas were words the Greeks had for 3 flavors on the list.

You may feel love for your husband and your friend, and sexual attraction and friendship with your dance partner. Enjoy it in all its variety!
 
I guess it doesn't really matter what I call it. I just confuse myself by having these feelings. Why should I feel so excited about a dance partner (I'm 40, he's 70, I mean really!) when I have a fulfilling and exciting sex life plus the love and attention of another wonderful man?

Reading around I see one can be "emotionally polyamorous" and "sexually monogamous" so I guess I'm not the only one.

Maybe I've always thought of relationships being about meeting one's needs: instinctively, to mate and bear offspring I suppose (done that). Additionally, to feel loved, appreciated, desired, etc. (I get lots of that). Practically, to share in the work of creating a home (check). Socially, to have a partner for companionship in life (got that too). I could probably think of more needs and my husband meets all those too, and if he leaves anything out I'm sure it gets fulfilled by L. So I'm just a little amazed at the strength of what I feel when D walks into the room, and I feel my smile spread ear to ear. Is he giving me anything I didn't already get? Other than having a solid grasp of how to dance the way I like it? (But H and L dance too; I met them each that way!)

If falling in love was only about fulfilling unmet needs, then it seems polyamorous relationships would carry the implication that the first partner was somehow falling short, and I'm quite sure that's not how most poly folks see things. I want some perspective. Why do I fall in love again and again? Why is it that the happier I am with my husband, the more I fall in love with others, and vice versa? It just doesn't make sense to me!
 
Try reading the book Sex at Dawn. It's an anthropological study, but an easy read, which demonstrates humans are meant to be non-monogamous! It's monogamy that goes against our wiring.

Variety, flirting with or shagging other people, makes our primary relationship more exciting too. It's a fallacy that humans are meant to be mono, and a shame that women need to barter their bodies for food and protection during their child bearing years.
 
Thanks, Magdlyn. I'll give it a read.

I wonder though why monogamy comes so easily to so many people, though? And why it's just not right for others? So many people seem happy to focus on their one-and-only and find the thought of two lovers as silly as the the thought of wearing two pairs of shoes at once. Whereas I used to cheat or break up with boyfriends all the time, thinking each time I fell in new love that it must mean I'd fallen out of the old love, or it hadn't been love after all.

I don't feel like I've bartered my body for my childbearing years, at all. I feel like I have a man I love so much, I want to live with him and watch our children grow, and it's great that he makes money for us (I make some too) and we can share in the work of our home. I certainly have never had sex with him when I didn't want to. I think we must have had entire years without sex when I was too busy breastfeeding to want to share my body with anyone else, and he never complained. (I realize that's rare.) We do make small compromises to keep things going, but it doesn't really feel like much of a sacrifice to me to keep my other relationships out of bed.

I'll have to read the book. I want to know why I keep falling in love, if it can be called love!
 
So many people seem happy to focus on their one-and-only and find the thought of two lovers as silly as the the thought of wearing two pairs of shoes at once.

Maybe there are a lot of people who are happy to focus on their one-and-only, but over 50% of all marriages end, and from what I can see a lot of the long term monogamous relationships that are still together are held together by obligation and the promise they made, supported by the ingrained belief that monogamy is the only way and anything else is less than.

I agree with Magdlyn- monagamy isn't natural for most people, but most people don't allow themselves the opportunity to step out of the box. I would say what's happening to you is more normal than not.

Also- the question "why" is a futile attempt to explain the unexplainable!! Just go with it!!!
 
Idealist, are you saying it's not natural for people to stay in relationships long term, or just that you think long term relationships would work out happier if they were open? Lots of divorces have nothing to do with affairs, but more with the breaking down of communication, expectations, etc. Likewise I've seen many long term marriages that are extremely loving, and I've been enjoying the "ripening" of my marriage, how much sweeter it gets each year as we know each other deeper and share more experiences. We're not so much held together by a promise as by a choice. I'm choosing sexual monogamy because it pleases him, and I love him, and I don't think my other relationships would see much benefit from adding sex (most especially with my married dance partner). I really do get a kick out of talking with men about not having affairs together though! It's enough for me to know they like the thought of sex with me, and we can leave the rest to our imaginations.

So all right, yes. I'll just go with it. :) Right now it's falling for D, talking all about it with L, and taking that fire to bed with H, so life is certainly good.
 
What a great question!

Not too long ago I was struggling with concepts of love myself... Once I detached it from romance, I pretty much realised I identify as poly.

Love for me is a special connection, but it can be of any type. There are people I love but have no particular interest in having sex with, or dating, although I love their company and may or may not have physical affection with them.

I love my family unconditionally. Marriage, for me, will come when I love someone unconditionally and want to make them family to me (as a spouse) and make a family with them (through having children). This will not affect my love for others, nor would I ever commit just because I like/love someone.

I love my cat. This love is also unconditional, as well as affectionate.

I don't love all my friends -- hell, I don't even necessarily like some of them! But there are friends I love in terms of fondness and simple liking.

Sex, on the other hand, for me, is either a physically enjoyable activity, or a form of connection and/or communication in itself. I can love without sex, and I can have sex without love.

Love has so many forms and it no longer matters to me what it means. It can mean very different things depending on the person/animal/thing in question. I only say "I love you" to someone who knows in what way I mean it for them (except for my cat. Pretty sure she doesn't understand it at all! :D )
 
hi :)

Why do I fall in love again and again? Why is it that the happier I am with my husband, the more I fall in love with others, and vice versa? It just doesn't make sense to me!

not that it makes more sense, but also me and friends have discovered as more we are sexualiy satisfied, as more people we meet we find (sexually) attractive.

Is that the same for others?

kisses
s
 
The biggest error and misinterpretation of any information regarding monogamy/non-monogamy and human nature is the injection of genralization and the lack of broader studies.

No one can speak for all humans. Some are monogamous and happy, others are non-monogamous and happy.
Helen Fisher is one of the most accomplished and published biological anthropologists. She is also one of the most published scientists in the area of human love. But again, she offers her research as not "the only way". Her brain mapping research is in depth and very widely recognized. If you want to know about love in the modern age I highly suggest to look at her research.
 
Try reading the book Sex at Dawn. It's an anthropological study, but an easy read, which demonstrates humans are meant to be non-monogamous! It's monogamy that goes against our wiring.

Variety, flirting with or shagging other people, makes our primary relationship more exciting too. It's a fallacy that humans are meant to be mono, and a shame that women need to barter their bodies for food and protection during their child bearing years.

If you listen to his interview with the poly weekly chick. He is actually debunking there being a natural norm.

Not debunking monogamy as a whole. The concept of there being one natural way is what he was trying to beat down. Well at least thats the impression I got listening to his interview. Haven't read the book however. Too much other reading material in my life at this point. Maybe someday.

To the OP. I think everyone views love differently. Some of us can create discernible lines in the sand as it were. It is very easy for me to have friends who I love, but I would never be poly with them, which too me insinuates an intimate relationship of some kind, while still being able to romantically love others. Apparently I am fairly unique in this. I don't confuse the two. :) Loving butterflies like I feel for my loves, comes with intimacy, sexuality, love and a "relationship"... those butterflies are what guide me. :)

At one point, early on, I had considered this question a lot to myself. Once I saw the clear line, for me, it was much easier and less confusing.
 
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If you listen to his interview with the poly weekly chick. He is actually debunking there being a natural norm.

.

I think this is a very important point...I think the natural way is for there not to be a blanket structure or dynamic. The spectrum is very fluid. Some people are legitimately on one end, others on the other end, and plenty in the middle somewhere.
Thanks for mentioning that interview :)
 
I think this is a very important point...I think the natural way is for there not to be a blanket structure or dynamic. The spectrum is very fluid. Some people are legitimately on one end, others on the other end, and plenty in the middle somewhere.
Thanks for mentioning that interview :)

I am right there with you. I truly dislike people believing there is a single spectrum. I get offended for my parents.

Reminds me of people who are agnostic and atheist preaching their way as the one way to preachers. Serious irony. I think people would find themselves in a much better place if they realized there is no "one way"...
 
I am right there with you. I truly dislike people believing there is a single spectrum. I get offended for my parents.

Reminds me of people who are agnostic and atheist preaching their way as the one way to preachers. Serious irony. I think people would find themselves in a much better place if they realized there is no "one way"...

I think this is a very important point...I think the natural way is for there not to be a blanket structure or dynamic.

I'm just talking biology. Penis size and shape, female orgasmic vocalizing, "hidden" ovulation, size of bodies, current traditional foraging societies' sexual and parental practices, etc etc. The idea of NOT sharing food and bodies was considered rude and immoral.

Monogamy is "new" and imposed by agricultural hoarding and the idea of ownership, which didn't exist for 95% of human existence. Try not to take it personally, gentlemen...
 
Monogamy is "new" and imposed by agricultural hoarding and the idea of ownership, which didn't exist for 95% of human existence. ...

Nothing personal at all. Monogamy and non-monogamy have existed in nature a lot longer than humans have existed. Look at the animal kingdom and broaden the resources drawn from. That's all I'm saying. Too many people read one book, don't question it becasue it fits their needs, and preach it as gospel.
 
Nothing personal at all. Monogamy and non-monogamy have existed in nature a lot longer than humans have existed. Look at the animal kingdom and broaden the resources drawn from. That's all I'm saying. Too many people read one book, don't question it becasue it fits their needs, and preach it as gospel.

*nods vigorously...*

The truth of science today will be the chance of it being false in the future. Science has an amazing history of being wrong once new(er) science has become better. Anthropologists make a living on those errors.
 
[...]Why should I feel so excited about a dance partner (I'm 40, he's 70, I mean really!) when I have a fulfilling and exciting sex life plus the love and attention of another wonderful man? [...] Maybe I've always thought of relationships being about meeting one's needs [...] If falling in love was only about fulfilling unmet needs, then it seems polyamorous relationships would carry the implication that the first partner was somehow falling short, and I'm quite sure that's not how most poly folks see things. I want some perspective. Why do I fall in love again and again? Why is it that the happier I am with my husband, the more I fall in love with others, and vice versa? It just doesn't make sense to me!
Hey! What have you got against older dancers? ("he's 70, I mean really!") OK, I can't claim to be 70...*

I want you to imagine yourself in a prison cell (luxurious fittings, comfortable, more like a 5* hotel, but...) with your husband. You can't get out, there's no television, no books, no contact with the outside world. All your meals are delivered (whatever you order, exquisite cooking) without you ever coming into contact with your prison guards. How long do you think that it would take you to become bored with your husband? How much longer to hate the sight of him?

It's a fallacy to believe that we can get all our needs from one other person. In some people's case, they can get all their most important emotional needs covered by one person. (And some try to... and are miserable.)

So you can dance with H... or L. But D's rather special at dancing, and there's this spark. You might not be poorer without it (or maybe you might not notice that you were poorer). But it's there, that spark. And it's so nice! Why not enjoy it? And maybe it's a spark and not a drink of clear water from a mountain spring. Maybe D and you would be a disaster in bed. Maybe he'd find sex-laden chats embarrassing - or tawdry. (I'm not saying he would - or doubting your potential fireworks in bed; I'm only saying maybe.)

So dance with the man! Enjoy your sexy chats with L! You're lucky to have 3 men who love you (each in his own way). (And no, of course I don't mean that you don't deserve such luck - or I wouldn't be on this web-site.)

To go back to your "unmet needs" idea: a cheese soufflé isn't "falling short" because it's not chocolate ice-cream. You're allowed to appreciate them both!

* But I did have - several years ago - a 20-something come up to me at a disco and ask: "My friends and I have been watching you dancing. How old are you?... If you don't mind me asking."
"I don't mind at all... I'm 50," I answered.
"Hats off to you, Man! That's fantastic!" he replied.
 
Oh, thanks everyone. I got stranded in someone else's exciting story here and didn't notice all the nice comments coming in.

MrFarFromRight, it wasn't "He's 70, I mean really," it was "I'm 40, he's 70, I mean really!" I don't have a problem with age, but I surprise myself sometimes with the age difference in my attractions. L is 66 (and I'm still 40). As a senior in high school I dated a freshman. I seem to be all over the map. A fluke that my husband is my age, I think. Older men are often the best dancers.

The story I keep reading here (probably because it says "New to Polyamory" right up there at the top) is the one where the happy monogamous couple is struggling when one of them finds or wants to find another partner, and then a roller coaster of pain and happiness and self-discovery ensues, as they grow into a "poly lifestyle." What I love to read about is all the communication barriers breaking down as everyone is forced to take a good look at themselves and their partners in the process.

Is my story less common, or just doesn't make it to these boards? My love for L opened a lot of channels of communication and self-discovery and I am extremely grateful for what I learned about myself and my husband in the process. (That process wouldn't likely have happened without the amazing support of you folks here. Thank you!) But ultimately I feel like sex is just one way to interact, and if my husband wants to reserve that one for just us, it's no big loss to my other relationships. Don't need to rub certain body parts together in order to have a connection, even if it would feel nice. With L I feel like we have a kind of intimacy that comes from just knowing that we would like to have sex, but we don't really need to do the actual body-part-rubbing. We talk about how memories and fantasies are both in our heads, so our sex life together is just fantasy not memory, and that's ok. Or we joke that it could have happened but some magic pill erased the memory so I wouldn't feel guilty towards H. In other words, having done it or not having done it doesn't make a difference in how we feel about each other.

What keeps me from feeling like I'm trapped in a 5 star prison with my husband is that he is amaaaazingly open to my doing the things I need to do to be happy. For example, this weekend another male friend (another crush from years ago, in fact, and another older man if anyone is counting) is driving me up to L's town so I can dance with L while this friend plays in the band. When I asked H how he'd feel about that plan he said, "Sure, and he (musician friend) should sleep here when you get back." Most weeks I go out dancing one or two nights without H, and he knows me so he knows I am out there loving the physical touch and attention from men. He's home babysitting our kids. I feel like it's this amazing gift (given many past relationship experiences) to be with a man who doesn't feel jealous, who truly wants to see me happy, who accepts that my heart just seems to open up easily, and just lets me be me. All he asks is that I save sex for him, and that's fine for me.

In some ways when I read things here I think we have just stalled on the poly path and might be denying ourselves a deeper understanding of ourselves and each other if we moved towards me sleeping with L. But my husband grew up in India, and I think it would just about rip him in half to try to change the way he thinks about sex and marriage. (He recently told me he decided to marry me the night we first had sex -his first sex ever, at 26.) I don't feel like we need to go there. Are we missing anything?

All right, so it's all a spectrum, and we find where we fit in, and if we're lucky our partner(s) fit in somewhere near us; is that the consensus here? And I feel so so so happy, being in three romantic relationships that all pour into one incredible sex life with my most devoted husband. AND I'm going dancing tonight!:D
 
Don't need to rub certain body parts together in order to have a connection, even if it would feel nice. [...] What keeps me from feeling like I'm trapped in a 5 star prison with my husband is that he is amaaaazingly open to my doing the things I need to do to be happy.
a) Hey! What kind of dancing do you do with D where you don't rub body parts together??? Whoops! My mistake: I just now noticed that word "certain". And I agree with you 100%! Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship. (Not even - as far as I'm concerned - in a sexual relationship.) Your husband is to be admired (especially given his upbringing in India) to be happy with your other kinds of intimacy / love with other men.

b) I didn't write that you were "trapped in a 5 star prison with [your] husband". I wrote: "I want you to imagine yourself in a prison cell..." I meant "imagine if you were..." I think that - in that case - you'd eventually discover that he doesn't (and can't) supply all of your needs for human contact. (I'm afraid that I'm rather a fan of extreme [and far-fetched] examples to illustrate the point I'm trying to make.)
 
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