Getting the cake with a little less icing

That is correct :)...no new male partners to be exact.



That is also correct. And I have repeatedly commented on how I worry about her well being in this with a man who has my boundaries.

"Who has my boundaries"? Who has your boundaries?

I am fully aware of that and it is my burden. Things seem simple to those that share their sexuality easily so I understand their confusion.


The focus of this thread is not for me to justify my boundaries, but to explore the validity of my offered ways to work around them to some degree.

In a polite euphemism-laid Canadian way. ;) We're all adults here. It's about SEX.

You're doing nothing but offering her a choice. Black and white. Sex with you, or sex with Leo. She wants sex with both. Brick wall.
 
That is correct :)...no new male partners to be exact.




The focus of this thread is not for me to justify my boundaries, but to explore the validity of my offered ways to work around them to some degree.

Absolutely :D

For me (interposing myself and my personality in place of RP here) it would mean while I gained something I was deeply wanting/yearning... I would lose something I valued just as deeply...

I understand the 'constriction' that RP must be feeling (I haven't read each and every post so am still sketchy on the details of what has happened)... and also the 'ew' that you would feel... and am very interested to understand your side of things - as I said very pertinent to my situation.

In my situation, while T and I have parted ways, I still feel the same, but as WW still has not fully accepted my feelings, nor T's, (and is only partially committed to the journey this takes us on) I am feeling constricted by not being able to fully grieve, nor even fully express my feelings... it is still very much a softly softly situation...

It is not the boundaries themselves, that I am interested in in this conversation... it is the freedom each of you has within your relationship to fully and wholly be yourselves, and each of you loving each other fully and wholly through that...

to that extent... I do have one question and this one is pertinent... and one I have asked WW and still not gained a clear understanding from it - likely there are threads on it, what exactly is the (your) problem with adding another male partner? and why does it not apply to women also? *while it is a personal question to you - I am asking more from a general undersatnding point of view*
 
You're doing nothing but offering her a choice. Black and white. Sex with you, or sex with Leo. She wants sex with both. Brick wall.

Please read the opening comment Magdlyn...this isn't even about their intimacy going that far and I was offering a way to deal with the level they crossed into. I offered a compromise..not a black or white choice.
 
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Please read the opening comment Magdlyn...this isn't even about their intimacy going that far and I was offering a way to deal with the level they crossed into. I offered a compromise..not a black or white choice.

"The level they crossed into" is another euphemism! I can only imagine it was a makeout session, if not more. I know they cuddle and walk arm in arm.

You may think it's a compromise, but it doesn't look like it from here.

You're the cake. Your love, your sex. RP having sex with Leo is the icing? She shouldnt need icing? Your cake is moist enough?

(How far can we take this metaphor?) If the icing is something else, please be clear and precise, or I really won't know what you're talking about.
 
what exactly is the (your) problem with adding another male partner? and why does it not apply to women also? *while it is a personal question to you - I am asking more from a general undersatnding point of view*

OK...I put a little more energy into the question again. Here's a link that deals with your question http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1016

Sorry Mags...I don't see any value in engaging you on this. Nothing personal, but you really didn't understand what I was talking about to begin with. Good call. :)
 
... you really didn't understand what I was talking about to begin with...

OK, I am trying to understand, offer honest feedback and soul-searching and not just throw rainbows and puppies your way. Yet now you refuse to explain yourself.

I gave it a little more thought. Maybe you're the cake AND the icing! Your cake part is your love, your agape. Your icing is your willingness or ability to have sex with RP, and/or go to poly/kink events with her-- your eros love. You're willing to give her your agape *only* if she needs to express herself sexually with Leo. She sees this as a loss, she wants the whole enchilada (hehe a euphemism referring to her peppery name). Sexual love, fully expressed, with both of you.

I'm sure she'd feel wracked with guilt to go to bed with Leo, knowing you're sitting home in the basement, or working on your bike, and not getting any sex at all from anybody. In fact, she's said as much elsewhere.

BTW, Cyndie asked earlier if it was true Leo's wife doesn't want him having sex with RP... if that is a firm boundary, did he therefore cheat on his wife by making out (or whatever happened) with RP? Where do his wife's boundaries enter the equation?
 
OK, I am trying to understand, offer honest feedback and soul-searching and not just throw rainbows and puppies your way. Yet now you refuse to explain yourself.

No puppies needed..I actually prefer pussies...err just one:eek:



I gave it a little more thought. Maybe you're the cake AND the icing! Your cake part is your love, your agape. Your icing is your willingness or ability to have sex with RP, and/or go to poly/kink events with her-- your eros love. You're willing to give her your agape *only* if she needs to express herself sexually with Leo. She sees this as a loss, she wants the whole enchilada (hehe a euphemism referring to her peppery name). Sexual love, fully expressed, with both of you. .


I think you have it :D

I was offering to step back from some things in order to give her more freedom in other areas specifically with Leo. She does not see this as an acceptable offer and therefore has chosen to step back with him. We were joking about it with Leo last night on text BTW...that felt good I must admit.

I'm sure she'd feel wracked with guilt to go to bed with Leo, knowing you're sitting home in the basement, or working on your bike, and not getting any sex at all from anybody. In fact, she's said as much elsewhere..

Just to be clear this has never been about me not getting sexual needs met. Mine are met with abundance. Hell, I'm overall less sexual now than I ever have been.."Explained" : I don't feel it as a need for the sake of sex but as a way I want to share myself with the person I love and trust.


BTW, Cyndie asked earlier if it was true Leo's wife doesn't want him having sex with RP

I don't know if she has that as a hard and fast boundary or at all. She is more concerned about how Redpepper lifts his spirits and makes him happy.
 
I think you have it :D

No thanks to you, Mr Fussypants! :p

I was offering to step back from some things in order to give her more freedom in other areas specifically with Leo. She does not see this as an acceptable offer and therefore has chosen to step back with him. We were joking about it with Leo last night on text BTW...that felt good I must admit.

Well, that's good, as long as RP and Leo aren't laughing on the outside, crying on the inside.:cool:


Just to be clear this has never been about me not getting sexual needs met. Mine are met with abundance.

Presently. Yes. But if RP had sex with Leo, you'd be unable to have sex with her, and since you have no other partners, you'd be having no sex.

Hell, I'm overall less sexual now than I ever have been.."Explained" : I don't feel it as a need for the sake of sex but as a way I want to share myself with the person I love and trust.

So you say, since you are getting plenty now! Were you asexual/celibate before you were with RP?

I don't know if she has that as a hard and fast boundary or at all. She is more concerned about how Redpepper lifts his spirits and makes him happy.

Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up. So she'd be in favor of it, if RP and Leo wanted to have sex. Cool.
 
Presently. Yes. But if RP had sex with Leo, you'd be unable to have sex with her, and since you have no other partners, you'd be having no sex.



So you say, since you are getting plenty now! Were you asexual/celibate before you were with RP?



.

I went through quite a process around my sexuality. Eventually I needed proffessional help to get to the route of what I was looking for from sex (as part of a bigger issue). I also did some exploration around sexuality on my own which re-enforced how I work internally. Without connection sex doesn't mean a lot to me. I'd rather ride my bike LOL:eek:

As a side note...completely hypothetically and not really of any impartance. I've been on Plenty Of Fish....getting laid on there is as easy as logging in so if I was desperate for sex...BUT...been there, don't regret it and learned a lot about myself through those experiences...one being that sex for the sake of sex is more fulfilling by myself ;)
 
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Ok I'm gonna jump in here because I think I know you a little and I kind of feel like you're getting picked on a bit. :D

I'm using myself as an example to take on this thread:

Recently the issue of compromising on boundaries has come up for Redpepper and me. One of the ways I offered to create more freedom in her level of intimacy with Leo was for me to pull away from some group activities that we share as families. Admittedly, part of this is because I cannot effectively deal with the reality of how intimate they were and would like to continue being. Fair enough, like an Ostrich I burrow my head into the sand. I also know this would likely result in me being less active in a broader spectrum of poly environments/activities once again to avoid reminders or triggers which might make my issues around this topic flare. I think I would become more live in boyfriend with a separate/more introverted social life.

From what I know of you Mono you wouldn't feel much of a loss having a more introverted social life. I don't know that you would really lose anything from being less engaged with the larger community. I hope that this pull back from the community wouldn't extend to me as I enjoy your company and I would miss you. I can even see that it might be a temporary thing to let wounds, for lack of a better word, heal. If you're having to confront things all the time that are causing a flare up of emotion for you you're never going to be able to allow it all to settle. Sometimes the road to a new normal is extremely difficult.

Essentially I would be stepping myself back into a more "secondary" role in order to deal with more openness for Redpepper. She would get something and I would get something. Compromise?

I have read of other posters on here who also want to be viewed as more secondary to cope with their partners other relationships. They too encounter resitance in the face of being asked to accept new relationships.

I know that you like to label yourself in terms of relationship. If it makes it easier for you to consider yourself secondary then why not? Although I don't know that anyone else would percieve you in that way. You were talking at one point about how much daily impact a relationship has in terms of primary/secondary ect. By your own definition you are a primary partner to RP, you share daily life, she and PN and LB all expect you to be there and rely on you for some of the day to day functioning of their lives.

Yes, the dynamic of the relationship changes but it also changes with the addition of new partners. Is it "fair" to expect no change in current partner dynamics in light of the desire to change the dynamic by adding new ones?
Is it fair to ask existing partners to "not" change when they are themselves being asked to accept change?

If both people are getting some of what they want while still maintaining relationships that they both get something from...is that not feasible? Is that not what compromise is about?

I'd like to try to stay somewhat on target with this because I know there will be a tendency to ask "why don't you work on getting over this issue as opposed to avoiding it through stepping back". Been there…will be there again I am sure :eek:

Peace and Love
Mono

Change is the only constant in life. Sometimes it really sucks that things have to change no matter how much you want them to stay the same. I think that you and RP are at the point where there is going to be change. You've both got to the place that compromise means giving up a part of who you are. I'm not sure what that means yet. I'm not comfortable with the uncertainty being the way it is and I'm just on the periphery.

Is it possible to step back for a 6 month period or so and then revisit how it's working for both of you? Who knows how things are going to feel down the line. Maybe it doesn't have to be all or nothing, but then again maybe that is how it has to be. You won't know until you try it out and see what works. There is no instruction manual on how to work relationships, let alone poly/mono relationships. I love you both (although in your case, platonically :D) and I really hope that you're able to work this whole thing out in such a way that you both come out happy and healthy with your needs being met on the other side.
 
you're getting picked on a bit. :D.


Heehee...I can take it but I can be very biting when I get frustrated. I try to keep my cool I really do:eek:


I hope that this pull back from the community wouldn't extend to me as I enjoy your company and I would miss you. .

Not to worry my cherished metamour :) I'll still kick you ass in bowling:cool:

If it makes it easier for you to consider yourself secondary then why not? .

Why not indeed? I wonder if there is a concern that I will drift more and more..that is a possibility and unfortunately I am mono. An extended time of broken connection could create a very slim hypothetical situation where I would be vulnerable to forming another connection....but I really don't see how I could ever trust anyone the way I do Redpepper and that is the cornerstone of my love for her. More likely would just be a growing distance that shifted my affection into a deep friendship.

Change is the only constant in life. .

The kind of change we are talking about is not one that most people even consider. Change does happen in many areas for everyone..but not in all areas. This is bigger change than any I ever had to exprience in 18 years of being married (15 good). When my ex explored a relationship with a woman it all but ended us becuase I couldn't share her in that way.

Is it possible to step back for a 6 month period or so and then revisit how it's working for both of you? .

We could..as long as both of us would have to assume the risk of a possible extended break in my connection.
 
Ok I'm gonna jump in here because I think I know you a little and I kind of feel like you're getting picked on a bit.
No one is picking on Mono here. We're trying to understand and help answer these questions. He got defensive for no reason. Quite frankly, the whole situation and questioning are confusing. And I am new to poly, mostly familiar with mono relationships, so it's not just poly peeps who find his mono viewpoint hard to understand. I'm from New York, too, so I guess I feel a sense of relief when someone says something directly instead of using metaphors. Why pussyfoot around issues involving pussy? heh-heh.

Mono, The confusing part to me is that I understood RP has not had sex with Leo, thus respected your boundaries. But the night he came over and stayed in her bedroom started off a whole slew of discomfort for you, Mono. Yet you say you're not jealous. Yet, RP apologized in other thread for breaking your trust. What did she do? That is still not clear. What does she want to do? She has said she will not move forward with Leo and still there is a shit storm to deal with. What does stepping back mean for you, exactly? You sometimes wax poetic and are somewhat vague in describing certain aspects of your situation. We're all just trying to understand what the hell you're talking about. No one is picking on you or posing questions as a way to bitch at you or poke fun.

It does look as if, from the outside, that your boundaries (which really come across as rules to me) have essentially placed RP in a mono relationship with you. You have managed to exert some powerful control over her. I know she has said that the sex with you is more satisfying than it is with others, or at least, being with you involves lots of sex. She's not sexual very often with her husband or other partners who were (I believe) in her life before you came on the scene, so it's like she's living a pretty much mono lifestyle in deference to you, despite the fact that a poly tribe is something she has said she strives for.

I don't think your stepping back is an unreasonable shift to make in order for you to handle the addition of another partner in her life (as long as you won't be pouting about it). And while it's ridiculous to think that adding someone new to the mix wouldn't demand changes all around the tribe, you seem unwilling to look further into why it would bother you so much. It's like you've dug your heels in and said, "this is just the way I am" without wanting any suggestions that there could be jealousy or other issues at play here. But, okay, let's say it is just the way you are and you do step back and RP takes on Leo as a full-on sexual partner and lover, and maybe other people, too, for that matter. How will you handle what may happen if lovemaking with Leo or another eclipses lovemaking with you, just as lovemaking with you eclipsed lovemaking with PN. Are you prepared for that? Maybe you can handle her relationships with PN and Derby because on some level you feel you've got the upper hand and are superior, or preferred, in your lovemaking, but Leo is an unknown. He throws doubt into the mix. She could wind up preferring his lovemaking over everyone else's. Hmm.

Even though you are mono and feel the need for connection to be sexual with her, I fail to understand how other, additional relationships RP has would be more of a threat to your connection than the ones she currently has besides you. It just does not make sense. If you allow some and not others, it's not quite poly, not quite mono, but you remain in control.

Perhaps this whole issue is rooted in your need for some sense of control in the situation. I'm not using the word "control" negatively. Human beings do often find comfort in some sense of order in life, and feeling like we have a handle on things. Perhaps, however, your need to be okay with the relationships RP has could be better handled by your own personal work on yourself rather than imposing limitations on whom and how RP loves and makes love to. She is poly, after all.
 
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It seems to me that this is one of those intriguing dynamics where the options were laid out very clearly at the get-go. A compromise to the benefit of the Poly has been offered now;

it's pretty much a take it or leave it situation.

I have a Mono boyfriend. We also have a no new men agreement.
I never talk about it on here-because it just IS that way. He knows I'm poly-he accepts that i'm poly and he doesn't try to limit my options.
But that is the agreement and that's just the way it is.
 
I am new to poly,


You're not asking anything new here and are merely parroting what others have already asked/said and has been answered in other threads. If you're really interested take some time to read around on other threads. You missed the original question. I obviously should not use creative titles because they inject unintentional confusion....sorry for that LOL. I'm pretty much done with questions that are n ot related the original questions.
 
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You're not asking anything new here and are merely parroting what others have already asked/said and has been answered in other threads. If you're really interested take some time to read around on other threads. You missed the original question. I obviously should not use creative titles because they inject unintentional confusion....sorry for that LOL. I'm pretty much done with questions that are n ot related the original questions.

I'm not parroting anyone. I offer my own responses derived at from my own pondering of the questions. I spend so much time on this forum and you have the nerve to say I haven't read all the threads? WTF? My questions are directly related to your original one. There is no reason to be rude and arrogant. You just don't seem to want to hear what you don't want to hear.

I'm done with you.
 
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I'm not parroting anyone. I offer my own responses derived at from my own pondering of the questions. I spend so much time on this forum and you have the nerve to say I haven't read all the threads? WTF? My questions are directly related to your original one. There is no reason to be rude and arrogant. You just don't seem to want to hear what you don't want to hear.

I'm done with you.

That's fair enough. Bye :)
 
You're not asking anything new here and are merely parroting what others have already asked/said and has been answered in other threads. If you're really interested take some time to read around on other threads.

Good grief, Mono. IMO, you owe Cindie an apology. That was harsh.

And the smilie at the end of your "fuck you, bye" post right there? Super passive aggressive.
 
Good grief, Mono. IMO, you owe Cindie an apology. That was harsh.

And the smilie at the end of your "fuck you, bye" post right there? Super passive aggressive.

Sorry Magdyln. I'm not going to be accused of manipulating Redpepper through some powerful sex mojo or any bullshit like that. I am also not going to listen to insinuations of how oppressive I am. Basically that line of thinking is an insult to the strength that Redpepper has and she is no one's puppet.

Cindie has stated she is done with me. I let go easy in almost all cases. No harm, no foul and no hard feelings.
 
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