I just wanted to point out the similarities in the struggles Mono and CeleryPerhaps are dealing with right now, as I was surprised that you added to that thread without noting that.
I did actually, but thought others had covered it and didn't want to make the thread about me and Mono. This forum is riddled with examples of what we are going through. It always is. There isn't much that I can't relate to certain times of my life. This is now and there are others struggling with mono/poly crap too. I'm sure their lives are just as dramatically confusing and frustrating. We just happen to be more known and perhaps more open; willing to take a beating for the good of others. Well, speaking for myself, anyhow.
As for you, my dear RP, it seems you are now being confronted by a pattern of yours, and this is a gift. Look, we all devise strategies for living at a very early age, to get what we want, which usually boils down to love and being accepted, appreciated. We repeat these patterns over and over again, because our brains are like computers and keep playing the same program, but we can't be free of them until we recognize them.When we see what we're doing, we now have choices we didn't know we had before. This is an incredible opportunity!
You bet! PN and I have spent a good deal of time talking, researching and for him, writing about this very thing. We do indeed play the same shit out over and over. I definitely see patterns and feel the same emotions over and over again and have noticed this. This time I broke the cycle, which is why I was so proud. I didn't go further into sexual intimacy with Leo! That was huge for me!
Mono had taught me a lot about my self-worth in terms of my sexuality. I shouldn't say he has taught me. He has pointed out that I have worth and made me look at it by being who he is. I have written enough about this on this forum though, and don't need to repeat it. Its easy enough to find examples of what I have learned about myself by reading about my reactions to casual sex last year.
What tugged at me in one of your posts was when you said you disgust yourself. Such a strong word, strong judgment. If you can somehow extricate yourself from the emotions and look in a somewhat "scientific" way at how you operate, I think it will be easier to have compassion for your self. Just look and see what you do, not judge what you do. Y'know, kinda like, "Oh, is that what I do? Huh." Eventually you get to a point where you feel some response rise up in you and you say, "Oh, wait a minute, old pattern, don't need to go there." It's just about becoming aware, being alive in the present, and being gentle with the knowledge we gain, not beating ourselves up for what we now learn about ourselves.
Very good point and words to live by. Thanks for the reminder. Some of these thoughts are fleeting. Thr disgust one comes and goes and is "put" on me by my conditioning. I don't believe it in my gut. I believe it from the outside world. I know that and remind myself of that. I sometimes put that on Mono, but he has never said it. I believe he thinks it, but he always denies it.
I'm not saying not to feel, or not to deal with the emotions that rise up in your process, nor am I saying that you shouldn't take a hard and critical look at things, but to try and find a balance where you don't treat or view yourself so harshly if you find yourself stuck in a familiar pattern again. Therapy might be a good idea.
Thank you for what you write. I am a work in progress and am being as gentle and kind to myself as I can, while looking at myself with as much compassionate criticism as I can. Therapy might follow if I don't make progress. Today I am hopeful, as I have had some sign that I made some good choices. Talking with PN, who is wise, grounded, brief and enlightening with these kinds of things has helped.
I'm wondering if you might be feeling trapped subconsciously. I know it wasn't even your intention to live in the same house as PN when you married. Maybe it has something to do with having too many people around, who you have to check in with, before being able to authentically just be in the moment. I've said before that to me you're like a beautiful bird, and as a bird you need that freedom to fly. I know that Mono recognizes that in you too.
I think you are right about this, Derby. I do feel trapped sometimes. I have for years, and perhaps always will. It seems to be in my nature to need complete freedom, yet be completely connected and in deep with people. The two often don't go hand in hand. PN is the only one that has ever worked with me, and although we are a good match, it isn't perfection. No one is ever perfect in anyone's life though. I know that.
Balance is good between my needs and others; as is privacy, to be free in my head and actions, and be trusted. That doesn't always happen with people I love, but I seem to do best with that. I don't expect everyone to be able to trust me in my intentions and discovery of the world and my place in it. I expect them to love me, regardless of my needs. That isn't always possible or fair and considerate of their needs, as is evident.
"Polyamory is less about how many people you're having sex with, feeling love for, or both, than it is about allowing love (not lust) to lead us into whatever form is appropriate."
(page x)
Yes, indeed. I wish it were simple to achieve. Actually I don't, as it would not be as rich and fulfilling once achievement is reached.
Here is one thing I see in my life with my wife, that may have some merit of looking at. The constant and relentless pursuit of happiness instead of recognizing it and loving it and living it.
Thanks, dinged. I am very happy with what I have.
I don't require more to be happy. I require freedom to be myself, and space to figure out what that means. All that comes from within. In the end, I am thinking and I am taking on the task of finding out how this might work in my life. I have no idea where I will end up with it, as it is deeply rooted in me that time and space are not an option in my life. I am a caregiver. I suck at "me stuff" in this way. It will be a long haul, but it began with my room.
BTW, I have never been a collector of stuff. Stuff comes in my house either cheap or free. If something comes in, I must send something out to the thrift store. I hate stuff. If I have stuff, then I have to take care of it and I get tied down. Again with the freedom thing
PN doesn't come here and post anymore, so we don't get to read his side of the equation, unfortunately. However, from what RP has written recently, he does seem to outsiders to have faded a bit from her life in a number of ways.
RP, I have a sense that PN's not really into drama, so he probably wouldn't want to get involved in this discussion, but I am wondering how this issue effects him. You said somewhere (sorry, not sure which thread) that you and Mono have been fighting, yelling, etc. I picture PN as a real easygoing guy, but at some point, that shit's gotta annoy him, and impact on his relating to you both, sense of peace and sanctuary in his own home, and the dynamic between all of you. Do you think there is any point at which you will all need to sit down as a family and discuss what's going on and how everyone, including LB, is affected by it? Not that PN would make a decision about how you and Mono conduct your relationship, but I'm just wondering about communication across the board among all people who are living together and how it works in a dynamic such as yours. Do you think a pow-wow among all of you would help?
I hope I have included PN enough in my posts tonight. Poor guy. I do leave him out quite often, don't I? I guess because we are so routined and so drama-free right now. What goes on between us is boring in comparison to Mono and me. Besides, you all know Mono and Derby, which makes it easy to talk about them.
Here is the website that PN writes. This is what he does with his time.
http://www.therealizedself.com/
Mono and I don't fight in front of the others. We don't seem to have a need to let it spill over. Interesting, because PN and I fight together in front of EVERYONE. LB gets disturbed by it and often asks us not to. We haven't fought in a while. though. I hope that doesn't mean it's coming! Geesh, I've had enough!
We talk openly and honestly in our house about everything, as soon as it is possible to. PN and LB have glimpses daily of what Mono or I or both of us are going through. I talk about it, fill them in, and just say where we are in our process. Tonight I talked about Leo with PN, as he is friendly with his wife. I asked if he know the struggle that Leo is having in order to support his wife. He now sees why I made the decision I did to back away and not engage Leo in anything intimately closer. He backed me up because of the information I gave him, not because of his concern about our boundaries together. He thought me wise to take some space and not get overly involved. I appreciated that he supported me this way. He said he would email her and see how she is, maybe hang out with her sometime soon.