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  #141  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:42 PM
Maur Maur is offline
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Originally Posted by ref2018 View Post
TGC, not TGM.
The Game Manual?
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  #142  
Old 03-07-2019, 08:57 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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I've never read More Than Two. I've never heard of Game Changer! God knows I've looked at morethantwo.com a lot and recommended it here to newbies dozens of times.

Just subscribing to this thread. It's a bit triggering because I was traumatized by dating a "poly" narcissist for 2 1/2 years, myself. Gaslighting, manipulating, disrespecting, big time. When I blogged about it here, some did get on my case for daring to say what I realized: my ex was a narcissist. "We shouldn't diagnose," and all that. Pfft. Behavior is behavior. Sometimes identifying where that behavior stems from, what the patterns are with other narcissists (I think 4% of the population), is extremely helpful in the healing process.

I used to wish I could warn his future lovers.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
BigGuy (poly, M, married, 43, dating me since June 2018)
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  #143  
Old 03-07-2019, 11:11 PM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Yeah mags, i agree that FV could very well be a narcissist. The difference between him and your ex is the difference between his exes and you: you told your own story, and you included lots of actual times, places, facts, and details. You didn't hire a pod and send them out on your behalf to publish a coming-attraction all over the internet while telling folks that there is a story, and we might or might not hear some of it or all of it, maybe sooner, maybe later, maybe never, but until then, we should all boycott your ex's brand and warn others to do so because certain graduate students and SJWs have read your writing and can guarantee to everybody who hasn't that your story is true.

Last edited by ref2018; 03-07-2019 at 11:17 PM.
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  #144  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:18 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Some here have dissed the article by Eve addressed to future lovers of Franklin. Calling it a jealous rant.

I wasn't at all jealous of my ex's newest lovers when I broke up with him. I mean, jealousy is a cover-up umbrella term which usually stems from fear of loss. I knew, being poly, I wasn't necessarily "losing" Ginger when he took up with a married couple. I knew he was in NRE, I was willing to ride it out. I didn't think he was handling the relationship well. The three of them had fights about twice a week. He'd be up, he'd be down. I tried to listen and support. Then he'd gaslight me when he was in an "up" period, denying the former fight and upset had happened with the couple and him...

So I started to get grossed out by all the turbulence, and tire of being his "supply" to tend to his constant need to air his grievances and euphorias with his couple. By the time I broke up, I had mixed feelings about my former metamours, pity for the woman, disgust for the man (who seemed to be another narcissist), some envy that they had a built in babysitter grandma to watch their brood of young children anytime, while they had threesome orgies with my ex... but I wasn't jealous. I was just done. I felt badly for the woman. I worried about her well being. Both men were manipulating her.

One thing I will add is I am wondering how Franklin will work towards healing with his exes. Usually people like him are in denial about their behaviors and tend to blame others. It's a well known fact narcissists (if he is one) never believe they are narcissists and never seek treatment.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
BigGuy (poly, M, married, 43, dating me since June 2018)
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  #145  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:52 AM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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I'm not sure if any of this is a direct answer to what I said, but I will respond as if we are having a loud private conversation in a quiet but crowded restaurant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Some here have dissed the article by Eve addressed to future lovers of Franklin. Calling it a jealous rant.
Wasn't even thinking about Eve's article, or about what other people said about it here, when I wrote my last post.

Quote:
I wasn't at all jealous of my ex's newest lovers when I broke up with him.
Yup, I knew that; but maybe others reading this could use the refresher.

Quote:
I mean, jealousy is a cover-up umbrella term which usually stems from fear of loss. I knew, being poly, I wasn't necessarily "losing" Ginger when he took up with a married couple. I knew he was in NRE, I was willing to ride it out. I didn't think he was handling the relationship well. The three of them had fights about twice a week. He'd be up, he'd be down. I tried to listen and support. Then he'd gaslight me when he was in an "up" period, denying the former fight and upset had happened with the couple and him...

So I started to get grossed out by all the turbulence, and tire of being his "supply" to tend to his constant need to air his grievances and euphorias with his couple. By the time I broke up, I had mixed feelings about my former metamours, pity for the woman, disgust for the man (who seemed to be another narcissist), some envy that they had a built in babysitter grandma to watch their brood of young children anytime, while they had threesome orgies with my ex... but I wasn't jealous. I was just done. I felt badly for the woman. I worried about her well being. Both men were manipulating her.
I know it was hard for you, and that you're still recovering.

Quote:
One thing I will add is I am wondering how Franklin will work towards healing with his exes. Usually people like him are in denial about their behaviors and tend to blame others. It's a well known fact narcissists (if he is one) never believe they are narcissists and never seek treatment.
I feel like it's really none of any of our business, but apparently the alleged victims/survivors and their entourage feel that it *is*... but not yet. And we don't know if or when they'll tell.

And here we are again: the difference between you and them is that you actually told your story yourself. (Because of course you are 100% identical to them in every other way under the sun )
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  #146  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:55 AM
Maur Maur is offline
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I have too much time at my hands...

So, there was a mention in one of the stories by Rickert about anger (the, uh, anger management story). About how it was, well, that there was a problem Veaux had with Rickert expressing anger.

Quote:
For him, I went to anger management classes. “Women’s healing anger,” was the name of the course. Yes, I wanted to heal my anger. But none of what they taught was acceptable to him. “Take a break,” they said, “walk away,” but he wouldn’t let me. He’d come after me, make me come back, confront me. Explain. “Go by yourself and scream into a pillow,” they said, but he wouldn’t let me. It was abusive to scream, he said. Ever. No matter what, no matter where. Even by yourself.
And hey, there is a fragment in MTT that might be relevant to understanding the dynamic. Regarding group sex:

Quote:
"It is normal for unexpected feelings to happen. When they do, step back, take a deep breath, and remember that your emotions don't have to be in the driver's seat. If you feel an unexpected negative emotion, say so calmly and clearly. Be willing to set boundaries, without having a temper tantrum. If something isn't working for someone else, change what you're doing—even if it's something you were really into. Remember, it's only by playing nicely that you get to play again!"
See the "having a temper tantrum"? It sounds kind of similarily to "it's abusive to scream, ever".

Now, IMO, it depends on the context, whether it's abusive, heavily. Dunno what other people think about it, though, but i think it's actually misleading question, the kind of where people fill in blanks to get more detailed situation in their heads or concentrate on some easy accessible principle, and the end effect is that they answer different questions.

My verdict: whatever the details, they certainly were not very compatible couple when it comes to expressing anger

(also it's kind of hilarioius in a tragic way that Veaux advises people feeling intense emotions to step back and Rickert accuses him of not letting her step back...)

Last edited by Maur; 03-08-2019 at 01:59 AM.
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  #147  
Old 03-08-2019, 02:17 AM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maur View Post
I have too much time at my hands...
Me too. I work online, at home, and while waiting for jobs to appear in my queue, I internet a lot.



Quote:
My verdict: whatever the details, they certainly were not very compatible couple when it comes to expressing anger

(also it's kind of hilarioius in a tragic way that Veaux advises people feeling intense emotions to step back and Rickert accuses him of not letting her step back...)
And they wrote a book about it. And supposedly.... *Eve* wrote most of that book. Remember? But yeah. Talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Still waiting for the actual story to come out... Thread is almost a month old.
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  #148  
Old 03-08-2019, 07:01 AM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is offline
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This is really dark but someone said reading Eve's work post these allegations would be like reading Amanda Berry "how to be a housewife", a book penned during her time with Castro. It's sick imagery but yes, it's how to relationship by someone now claiming they were abused when they wrote it.
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  #149  
Old 03-08-2019, 02:01 PM
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vinsanity0 vinsanity0 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maur View Post
I have too much time at my hands...

So, there was a mention in one of the stories by Rickert about anger (the, uh, anger management story). About how it was, well, that there was a problem Veaux had with Rickert expressing anger.



And hey, there is a fragment in MTT that might be relevant to understanding the dynamic. Regarding group sex:



See the "having a temper tantrum"? It sounds kind of similarily to "it's abusive to scream, ever".

Now, IMO, it depends on the context, whether it's abusive, heavily. Dunno what other people think about it, though, but i think it's actually misleading question, the kind of where people fill in blanks to get more detailed situation in their heads or concentrate on some easy accessible principle, and the end effect is that they answer different questions.

My verdict: whatever the details, they certainly were not very compatible couple when it comes to expressing anger

(also it's kind of hilarioius in a tragic way that Veaux advises people feeling intense emotions to step back and Rickert accuses him of not letting her step back...)
This was one of the things that didn't quite sit right with me. If a man yells at a woman, that is considered abuse. But if a woman yells at a man? Well, she's just expressing her feelings.

Maybe those two should have read their own book?
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  #150  
Old 03-08-2019, 02:35 PM
Maur Maur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity0 View Post
Maybe those two should have read their own book?
None more bare than the shoemaker's wife and the smith's mare
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