12 things

Having boundaries and deadlines can help - there is an END to the struggle. You either work things out or you don't.

When MrS and I went through our own "Dark Time" (which was entirely MY fault - for the record, and a potential "DealBreaker" at that.) I gave myself ONE YEAR to resolve things with him (even though it was a DB - it was my first major Fuck-Up in 20 years). If, at the end of a year, he still was unhappy and wanted to leave then I would give up without further fight.

Luckily, for me, it didn't take a year - we resolved our difficulties in 3 months.
 
Deadlines. Absolutely. Must add deadlines. My lists will sound like recipes. Take one relationship. Add 1 Red Flag and 3 Warning Signs. Stir and bake in the oven for one year on medium heat. Check if the dough has exploded or went flat. if not, continue baking, until shit happens.

I'm thinking of getting a notebook to collect some of these lists. To carry with me.

No list today. Just a thought I want to get out of my head.

Today somewhere in the wast internet Salamander said he'd like to have someone sitting next to him on the couch. And I practically sat on my hands to avoid typing shit happens or something similar. I want him out of my head already.
 
Introducing a new character in my story: Mir is a lover-friend. I've known him for a year or so, and we've been slowly getting closer. He has a family, lives a couple of hours away. We don't see that often, but we chat just about every day. Things are simple, we seem to want similar things and communicate easily.
 
I loose myself in a relationship too easily. I drown in us, and stop being me. I've decided to avoid primary style relationships until I learn to be me, my own primary, I suppose. But it's not just that. It's some kind of reaction to other people in general. I change into stand-by mode and wait for others to program me to do or feel something. I'll do my best to learn to stay me with friends and family before trying another primary relationship.

Meanwhile I made a list on being my own primary. I am not sure, if I understand what it means. It's possible that a month from now my list will be complitely different from what it is now. But it's a start.

12 things on what being my own primary means to me:

1. listening to my needs, wants and fears (I'll write lists later)
2. taking care of myself: filling my life with beauty and joy, love and laughter, inspirations and inspiring challenges
3. having integrity, respecting my own boundaries
4. respecting myself and seeing my own worth
5. trying to become a better person (when possible)
6. accepting and loving myself
7. taking time for myself and my things (writing and crafting)
8. taking care of my health: eat, sleep, exercise
9. learning my rythm for solitude and companionship
10. really letting people know me
11. removing constantly stressful people from my life (I don't have to try and be nice to everyone, I don't have to always try)
12. learning to be me with other people

I went through my old lists and made a list of subjects I've meant to make lists on. Full meta! (I won't be posting that one, and anyway, there isn't even 12 items on the list. I also bought a notebook small enough to carry the most important lists with me.
 
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I did some thinking last night and came to the conclusion that my reaction to what Salamander did is out of proportion. This happens because I'm very sensitive to anything that reminds me of emotional abuse (the lies and manipulation of those last weeks). I've been through a lot in my life, so it's no wonder, but I suppose I'm suffering from some kind of PTSD because of it.

I don't like to be triggered into panic attacks like this, so it's time to do something about it. I googled some articles yesterday and they all seemed to say that I need to remember the shit I've gone through, think about it and talk about it, let go and feel better. I don't believe this. Thinking about shit makes me feel shit and I can think myself into a panic attack fairly easily. So I decided there has to be another way. I remembered some stuff I've read about brain plasticity and decided to try this approach. Today, with my new idea, I googled again and it seems I'm not the only one who thinks this can work.

"Experience got you into this mess. With neuroplasticity as your guide you can learn that it’s entirely possible focused, strategized experience(s) can get you out of it. At the very least, supporting your brain with new and good experiences while you seek your recovery path can be a positive, balancing and economically accessible way to (re)train your brain. Start firing neurons associated with positive experiences and you will start strengthening those neuronal structures in your brain, which can deeply impact your recovery process."
http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/t...icity-what-you-need-to-know-in-ptsd-recovery/

My life is not controlled by PTSD, it only shows in some situations (when something reminds me of gaslighting or I feel someones boundaries are not respected). It should be fairly simple to come up with a plan to change the wiring and my response to these triggers.

So already last night I started to think about things I can do to change my wiring, stop the trigger-->response connections and change them. And this morning I made a list.

12 things on recovering from C-PTSD (complex PTSD) without mulling shit over and over again:

- Identify the triggers
1. Use positive images to replace bad ones whenever I start thinking about trigger stuff.

- Stop reinforcing the neural connections
2. Avoid situations and people that trigger the reactions (either permanently or temporarily).
3. Learn to numb triggers I can't avoid.
4. Learn to stop panick attacks while they are happening.
5. Learn to connect positive and pleasurable things to some triggers (when applicable) by using fantasies or even orgasms. (I've used this method succesfully to learn to enjoy some sex activities I really disliked but wanted to see if I could learn to enjoy. I'm not sure if it can be used here, places and objects might be good things to attach to fantasies to cange my reaction to them.)

- Start strengthening new ones
6. Focus on consciously enjoying beauty and joy, amusing and positively absurd things in everyday life.
7. Keep building that positive self image in all it's aspects.
8. Build positive relationships with others, and remember to consciously feel good about succeeding.
9. Do enjoyable things and things that feel good, enjoy them consciously.

- take care of myself
10. Feel good in my body (sleep, eat, exercise), have a home I can enjoy (clean, organized, filled with colors).
11. Tell people about what I am trying to do, ask help.
12. Cuddle parties! (they seem to be the answer to just about every problem I have :D )
 
No list today as I'm trying to process all the information in the old ones. I bought a notebook and wrote the dealbraker and PTSD lists there (those seem to be the ones I'd most like to look at when I'm not at my laptop).

I started negotiations wiht Salamander. I'm not one to harbor hatred. I feel I want to see, if there's anything that can be done for us to be able to be friends. I feel this might be a mistake. I introduced GalaGirls idea of engagment in making any major life decision. So I guess now we are engaged to try to work out whether we can be friends or not. For a year… or until Salamander lies to me again… or until I realize that this actually is a mistake and I'm just setting myself up for more pain. I feel I want him back. I feel I want him gone. It sucks that I can't turn back time.

Since there has been a lot of talk about platonic+poly I want to introduce another character to my story: Swirl. I've loved him for over a decade. He cares for me deeply, we have been close friends for a long time. He has a wife and children, but since I confessed my feelings for him we have tried to find a way to be together that feels right for us. This means being intimate in every way. But at this moment there's no sex. If Mir is my lover-friend, Swirl is my love-friend and in no way lesser one. He is the reason I'll always be polyamorous, no matter what shape our relationship ever takes.
 
Todays list is a work in progress, since I wanted to list my needs in relationships but realized that I'm not really sure if they are needs or wants. What is the difference? Also I started to wonder if I really need all of this from any one relationship, or could several different relationships provide these needs in different combinations. And if so, are there needs that are essentila to every relationship… So confused right now. Any comments are welcome, if you feel you could help me figure this out.

List of my needs in a relationship
1. I need to be seen and accepted with all my struggles
2. I need time and space for myself
3. I need sex
4. I need to feel safe and comfortable physically, emotionally, intellectually and spiritually
5. I need to be vulnerable and to share vulnerable moments with another person
6. I need clarity in communication, intentions and actions
7. I need friendship
8. I need trust
9. I need to be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them
10. I need support and I need to be of support
11. I need to feel inspired and I need to inspire
12. I need someone who has a spark of their own, someone who is driven by their own passion for life.
 
Todays list is a work in progress, since I wanted to list my needs in relationships but realized that I'm not really sure if they are needs or wants. What is the difference? Also I started to wonder if I really need all of this from any one relationship, or could several different relationships provide these needs in different combinations. And if so, are there needs that are essentila to every relationship… So confused right now. Any comments are welcome, if you feel you could help me figure this out.

List of my needs in a relationship
1. I need to be seen and accepted with all my struggles
2. I need time and space for myself
3. I need sex
4. I need to feel safe and comfortable physically, emotionally, intellectually and spiritually
5. I need to be vulnerable and to share vulnerable moments with another person
6. I need clarity in communication, intentions and actions
7. I need friendship
8. I need trust
9. I need to be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them
10. I need support and I need to be of support
11. I need to feel inspired and I need to inspire
12. I need someone who has a spark of their own, someone who is driven by their own passion for life.

Some of these - 2,4,9, the first part of 11 - I see as inherent needs, i.e. they are there whether in a relationship or not. These are things that I can provide for myself - or I'd be changing my life so as to have them. Other people not required.

Others - 1,5,6,8 and the first part of 10, the second part of 11, the first part of 12 (which for me means - has a personality and their own thoughts in their head - i.e. an "interesting person") - I see as needs/wants that I would have to have in order for me to be in ANY sort of "relationship" with someone (even if the relationship is friendship) - because they actually require another person.

Friendship itself (7) is not a NEED for me - but a requirement if I am going to have an intimate/romantic (although not necessarily sexual) relationship with someone.

Sex (3) is a want (sometimes) for me - not a need.

YMMV - just my initial thoughts.

JaneQ
 
What I'd suggest is writing a list of what you need from all and any partner's you have, and what things are sort of optional bonuses that you'd like at least one partner to have.

It also helps to seperate what you need from a partner in isolation to what you need from friends.

Eg. I don't need any of my partners to share my cultural background because the benefits you reap from having a network of people who are from the same culture as you, I already get from my family and friends.

I do need a partner who understands autism generally but also how it affects me and depending on how entangled our relationship becomes, my son too. Not all my friends and family do, and that is frustrating, but I can obviously choose to distance myself from them to avoid it negatively affecting us very much. It would be difficult to maintain a healthy relationship with someone who doesn't have this understanding and isn't interested in gaining any knowledge. I could see how we could kind of wing it for a while but it wouldn't last.
 
Some of these - 2,4,9, the first part of 11 - I see as inherent needs, i.e. they are there whether in a relationship or not. These are things that I can provide for myself - or I'd be changing my life so as to have them. Other people not required.

Others - 1,5,6,8 and the first part of 10, the second part of 11, the first part of 12 (which for me means - has a personality and their own thoughts in their head - i.e. an "interesting person") - I see as needs/wants that I would have to have in order for me to be in ANY sort of "relationship" with someone (even if the relationship is friendship) - because they actually require another person.

Friendship itself (7) is not a NEED for me - but a requirement if I am going to have an intimate/romantic (although not necessarily sexual) relationship with someone.

Sex (3) is a want (sometimes) for me - not a need.

YMMV - just my initial thoughts.

JaneQ

Thank you for your thoughts. When I read how you see this, I get the idea that I don't need much or anything too strange. Basic respect and caring. I suppose it is a good thing.

Some clarifications:
2. I really need my own time and space in a relationship. When I'm alone this is not a problem, but when with other people (any interaction) I tend to lose myself or disappear or then I try too hard to be present that I get exhausted. This I believe is an aspie issue. I need to make sure i take care of myself by being alone enough. So this is why this is a specific need in a relationship for me.
1 and 4. are also aspie related. I'm just too tired to educate new people about these things. I'll do it when needed, but I need someone who has a good understanding of my difficulties and somehow gets it without too much exlanation. Just like london said. It's just easier to distance yourself from such people.
9. is related to my experiences of emotional abuse. I need to be allowed to be imperfect. I don't want to face anyones demands anymore. With my history, I see this as a threat to me, any kind of emotional abuse, and I have a strong need to avoid certain things. And to go towards other things like people who are understanding and accepting.
11. and 12. are related to living with someone who suffered from depression. Two different sides of something that just isn't there when someone has lost that spark. Note to self. Not all people lose it when depressed! But I'd still keep some distance until they are well.

And the group of things that apply to any relationship… I suppose this shows quite clearly why I have a hard time seeing the difference between friendship and a romantic relationship. I love so many of my friends. Only one who really stands out from the rest of them is Swirl. What I feel for him is something different. I have no words for it.

Friendship before romantic relationship is a need for me, or it's something that has to be there so that there can be a romantic relationship. But I suppose this is again on example of why I donät see a clear line between the two.

And sex… with another person is a need for me. I can do things alone, but it will never feel the same as another person touching me. And I long for touch so much sometimes it hurts. And most touch is somehow erotic to me… So sex with another person is something I can't live without. This is also why a romantic relationship is a need for me, because I haven't figured out a way to separate sex from certain emotions. I couldn't do NSA.

So I guess I'm still happy with the list I came up with.

One thing I could add is self respect. I need to be able to respect myself in a relationship.

What I'd suggest is writing a list of what you need from all and any partner's you have, and what things are sort of optional bonuses that you'd like at least one partner to have.

It also helps to seperate what you need from a partner in isolation to what you need from friends.

Friends/partners… These are too similar for me to make two different lists. Sex is not a need from all my friends, definitely :D Just as long as there's enough touch.

I suppose all/any list could be useful. This list was more of an ideal relationship list. But it's true, I don't need all of it from one person. I do feel that I might need quite a lot from this list from one person, though.
 
Oh boy… all the lies.

I wasn't ready to let go of Salamander completely, so we've been talking and trying to find a way to be friends. And then I found out that all these talks were based on lies, that he'd lied to Sunflower too (I talked with her about things, finally). He keeps lying about everything all the time. I suppose the only honest thing he's said to me was when he confessed cheating on me… and even then he lied saying someone had told him he must come clean, but it was actually Sunflower.

So many lies and I feel… I don't even know what i feel. Dissapointed in myself for not seeing through him sooner.

So it didn't end pretty. First I lost my trust in him, then I lust my respect for him and finally I lost hope. That's when I kicked him out of my life. For a week or so I felt really good, but talking with Sunflower sent me back to negative emotions.

No list this time. I made some revisions on my needs list. Some lists are bubbling under.

I'm sad that london is gone. She commented my journal regularly. I don't like writing just for myself.
 
I'm sad that london is gone. She commented my journal regularly. I don't like writing just for myself.

You are NOT writing just for yourself. :cool: You are writing for all of us, and anyone in the future that can relate to and learn from your story. Thank you for sharing with us.
 
JaneQSmythe, you are right, of course :)

Too busy to rewrite my needs-list today...
 
It wasn't my needs list, but this one I've been revising:

12 things that are dealbrakers (DB), red flags (RF) or other warning signs (WS) for me.
- dealbreaker: I will not start a relationship with this person. Or I will not stay in a relationship to see if things might change with discussion or trying.
- Red Flag: The issue will be discussed. Repeated (3–5 times) behavior will be a dealbreaker.
- Warning Sign: The issue will be discussed. Repeated (3–5 times) behavior will be a red flag.

1. Lying about the relationship or what kind of person one is. (DB) Habitual lying about other things. (DB). Occasional lie. (WS)
2. Drugs, alcoholism, excess use of alcohol. (DB)
Added: any addiction WS or DB depending on how severe)

3. Physical abuse, threaths. (DB)
4. Breaking major promises (DB), repeatedly breaking smaller promises without good reason. (RF/DB), Breaking my trust or confidences or cheating. (DB)
5. Repeatedly ignoring me because chatting with others online when it's our time, but not answering my messages when not with me, because didn't notice. (RF)
Added: ignoring me in company. (I don't mean I need constant attention, but asking me somewhere and hanging out with others is not cool.)

6. Avoiding or sugarcoating difficult subjects instead of just telling me the hard truth. (WS)
7. Symbiotic behaviour. (DB) Co-dependent behaviour. (DB) Making agreements against ones true needs and wants. (RF)
Added: acting like a servant to others, living for/through pleasing others
8. Difficulties (WS) or refusal (DB) to communicate and share ones thoughts, feelings and experiences openly and honestly. Not knowing oneself. (RF)
Added: vagueness, avoiding certain topics or conversation in general or open communication.
9. Minimizing, mind games and other forms of emotional abuse (DB)
10. Disrespect toward me or my friends and family. (DB) Not wanting to know my family and friends. (WS) Wanting to keep me separate from other people in ones life. (RF)
Added: applies to interests too. (Again, no need to over share everything.)
11. Wanting the relationship to be kept a secret to the closest people. (DB)
12. Lack of empathy and understanding towards my asperger traits. (RF) Not wating to learn and understand (DB)

I also had a list of things I see as good signs in a relationship:
Openness, honesty, respect, independence, empathy
And I added:
equality, self-respect, being genuine.

I've had this list for a few months and I look at it occasionally, especially when I'm uncertain about how I feel in a situation. I've also shown it to some people, so they know what I expect (and what I'm willing to give, as the things I don't want are things I want to avoid doing as best I can.) It has really helped me sort things out in my head.
 
HI Copperhead,
I read your blog too.
I am also a singlish mum with 2 kids.
It can be hard slog.
Atlantis
 
It wasn't my needs list, but this one I've been revising:


Added: any addiction WS or DB depending on how severe)


Added: ignoring me in company. (I don't mean I need constant attention, but asking me somewhere and hanging out with others is not cool.)


Added: acting like a servant to others, living for/through pleasing others

Added: vagueness, avoiding certain topics or conversation in general or open communication.

Added: applies to interests too. (Again, no need to over share everything.)


I also had a list of things I see as good signs in a relationship:
Openness, honesty, respect, independence, empathy
And I added:
equality, self-respect, being genuine.

I've had this list for a few months and I look at it occasionally, especially when I'm uncertain about how I feel in a situation. I've also shown it to some people, so they know what I expect (and what I'm willing to give, as the things I don't want are things I want to avoid doing as best I can.) It has really helped me sort things out in my head.
This post is fantastic and I may try to use this idea to create something of a list for myself. Thank you for sharing.
 
I agree - it's a really fabulous list and next time I update my Poly User's Manual I may take some of the ideas from it - especially the bits about open communication.
 
Hi all :)

Icesong: To me, because of my aspie traits, open communication is a must. If the other person relies on hinting, they might have to hint for a decade (true story) before I understand. It's frustrating for both parties.

MusicalRose: I've realised that a boundary list is essential for someone like me, who forgets herself too often.

I also realized that I came off as needy here (but hey, it's my journal ;) ) when saying I need replays. What I need is feedback. It's always been like that for me with writing. I can think for hours and mull over things without needing other people. If I want to figure something out, I need to talk to clear my thoughts (the ones I can't straighten out on my own). But when I write, that's public, like this journal.

I write fiction semi-professionally and I need feedback on my stories. Usually I get it from my friends who read the texts before I publish, so when the texts are out there, I don't need feedback any more, but it's still nice to hear someone's read them.

This journal is public and it's full of my thoughts I haven't shared with others, some I still haven't quite figured out yet. So this is a cross-over from thoughts, public writing and conversation for me - hence I need feedback. I have never managed to keep a private journal for longer than three months… I just don't see the point. if I write, the text is meant for someone to read and I expect to hear how it's received (to change how I express myself and also to change how I think).
 
Meanwhile I made a list on being my own primary. I am not sure, if I understand what it means. It's possible that a month from now my list will be complitely different from what it is now. But it's a start.

12 things on what being my own primary means to me:

1. listening to my needs, wants and fears (I'll write lists later)
2. taking care of myself: filling my life with beauty and joy, love and laughter, inspirations and inspiring challenges
3. having integrity, respecting my own boundaries
4. respecting myself and seeing my own worth
5. trying to become a better person (when possible)
6. accepting and loving myself
7. taking time for myself and my things (writing and crafting)
8. taking care of my health: eat, sleep, exercise
9. learning my rythm for solitude and companionship
10. really letting people know me
11. removing constantly stressful people from my life (I don't have to try and be nice to everyone, I don't have to always try)
12. learning to be me with other people

I tried to find something I'd written and came across this one. I wrote it less than three months ago. These were things I needed to work on, and now that I go through the list, it seems I'm living it! Without this list, I wouldn't know.
 
I really struggled making a distinction between needs and wants, and this is why I had a difficult time making my needs list earlier. Since then I've come accross a definition that makes sense and made it easy for me to understand the difference. The problem I had earlier is that needs and wants both seemd to have the same directionality: I get/take something that fills a need or want, so what's the difference? Language doesn't help here. But it really is simple: "Needs are discomforts." So wants are comforts. And this changes directionality. Needs require actions that take you away from something uncomfortable, to a neutral state. Wants require actions that take you towards something, to positive state. So I rearranged my needs list to fit this idea and also Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It was interesting to see that my original list mostly followed the Maslow order. I changed some items on the list and added some. After I finished the list I wanted to use the same structure for my wants list so I googled hierarchy of wants to see if someone had done it. I got a bunch of pictures of the hierarchy of needs, so apparently the distinction is not that easy for others either.

I realise that I have some weird stuff on level 1. Not really basic physiological survival needs. I'm not sure there are any related to relationships assuming you are not held prisoner by your partner and denied food or something. I placed few things on level 1, because for me these things are connected to physical discomforts. If I don't have enough time and space for myself I get tense and this is a physical sensation. So to recognise when I have neglegted this need I have to monitor physical sensations (until I learn to recognise the situation beforehand). Touch is essential and replaced sex from the earlier list, they are on the same needs–wants continuum of course. The last one includes physical safety, so it starts on the level one, but exceeds to level 5.

Level two could also be seen as the certainty that the basic needs are met in the future also, not just here and now. In a relationship my near future safety comes mainly from predictability and continuity. Trust is also essential for my continued sense of safety. Originally I had, plans, promises and clarity in communication here, but then I decided those are wants.

Level three is about belonging to a group. It was interesting to notice that to me relationship doesn't actually connect with that many level three needs. The only one that is really about having a group is needing family. I have children, but I do need someone to share their life with. Everyday stuff, doing things together, enjoying time together as a group. Somehow me and the kids isn't enough of a group, I really would like to have another adult as a part of that group. Friendship I can get without a relationship, but I don't think a relationship without friendship would work. Openly showing vulnerability could have been on level 4, but I figured it is essential for companionship, so I placed it here.

Level four is actually about being appreciated and respected for what you do (in Maslows hierarchy), but I figured it's more essential to be appreciated and respected for who you are.

Level five is connected to my creativity. Things I need to be able to give back to the community. To develop myself to the point where I can make a positive difference. Both items are actually about inspiration.

My needs in a relationship 2
Level 1:*the need to reduce current physical discomforts
- I need touch
- I need time and space for myself
- I need to feel safe and comfortable physically, emotionally, intellectually and spiritually
Level 2:* the need to feel safe enough in the near future ( in effect to know that level one needs are met in the future)
- I need predictability and continuity
- I need trust
Level 3: the need for companionship
- I need family and friendship
- I need to be vulnerable and to share vulnerable moments with another person
Level 4: the need to be recognized as someone special and being valued by a group.
- I need to be seen and accepted with all my struggles
- I need to be allowed to make mistakes and to learn from them
- I need support and I need to be of support
Level 5: the need to be self actualized.
- I need to feel inspired and I need to inspire
- I need to be with someone who has a spark of their own, someone who is driven by their own passion for life (as an inspiration and an example)

So my wants list next. It's arranged similarly to the needs list, just to see if I could find more continuums.
My wants in a relationship:

Level 1:*physical pleasures
- hugging, cuddling, kissing, caressing, sex
- exercising, using and moving my body (not just watching series and movies)
Level 2:* feeling secure, content and joyful
- laughter and jokes
- being together without doing something
- clarity in communication, intentions and actions, reasonable plans and promises
Level 3: sharing experiences
- working together
- sharing ideas
- knowing my partners past and what they want from future, being allowed to share my past and future with my partner
Level 4: having a distinct role in a group
- being known and appreciated for what I do and what I've achieved
- to know people would miss me if I'm not around
Level 5: giving back to the community
- expressing myself through arts and crafts
- sharing the lessons I've learned in life

I feel like writing "my wants in life" list :D But maybe I won't bother you with that one. This one was quite difficult to write at first. it was hard to think beyond needs. Maybe it means my needs aren't met that well yet. Thinking in continuums really helped.
 
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