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Old 09-14-2011, 03:51 PM
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RaspberrySurprise RaspberrySurprise is offline
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Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
No it is not fair to "bring someone else into" your troubled marriage.

You need to work on your existing relationship or get out of it before you involve other people. Otherwise you will go down as a statistic for why poly "doesn't work".
Agreed NeonKaos. I wouldn't want to make yet another person unhappy.

I am asking questions to gain knowledge before leaping in to anything. It's why I am here.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:19 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Do your homework. It is so true, if you have problems in your marriage poly will only make them 1) temporarily better 2) different and 3) worse! At least that was my own experience.

If you are looking for friendship, your husband does not have to fuck someone in order for you to find it.

If you and your husband are on different pages sexually, there are many interesting ways to explore this and try to find a happy medium.

You DO have lots of choices!!!
Formerly married to Sundance
Boyfriend -- Butch Cassidy
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:28 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by RaspberrySurprise View Post
Hi SourGirl

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.

He definitely does think there is something wrong with me for barely having a sex-drive. He makes that pretty plain.

As I explained above it could be hormonal or medical. Depression has been with me for sometime. I also take fluoxetine for it. plus I have PCOS which messes with my hormones. I wont go into the other medical issues on here but there are quite a few. I rarely am without a headache and am tired all the time.

You say that not all relationships are fairytale that get involved in Poly. Is it fair for us to bring someone else into our already very troubled marriage?

I would love the "daydream" notion that I could be her best friend and he could have someone to do s&m with. But how likely is that?

No. If you think your marriage is troubled, then it is not fair. There is a difference between less-then-fairytale-perfection, and someone who believes their marriage is troubled.

Daydream ? - Unlikely, but it happens. It seems many times, the worse the couple, the more likely they get a unicorn. Moths to a flame, I guess. Everyone ends up with baggage. Do you really want more baggage to deal with ?

Order of business : Look after yourself, find out about the fluctuating hormones and sex drive.
When you feel strong, deal with the husband, his wants and desires, and educate yourself.
See how things look much further down the road.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:12 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Hi RS, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by RaspberrySurprise View Post

We had tried relationship therapy...
You two saw a counselor together? For how long? Have you also had individual counseling along with your anti-depressant meds? Some SSRIs do not affect the libido as much as others. Also, what is up with being tired and headachy all the time? Do you have chronic fatigue syndrome? Or do you think your fatigue could be caused by your SSRI?

...and s&m.
I am wondering how much you delved into this lifestyle. Most people into it call it BDSM. The BD stands for bondage and discipline. The DS stands for D/s, or Domination and submission. The SM stands for sado-masochism.

Does he want to be a fulltime Dom to someone, or just play with it in a "scene?" If he wants a fulltime sub with complete power exchange (as I suspect, seeing as he wants "love" to enter into it), that could take up a lot of his time. Has he tried being a Dom online to someone already? Some people do this, in long distance relationships. Would you be OK with that? It might relieve some of his desires for that kind of relationship. He could play with an online friend while you check your FB or sleep.

He doesn't want a no strings attached relationship, he wants an open and honest "love" one. It is the thought of not being special that makes me feel jealous. Having to share him. Knowing that I wasn't enough. Of course the thought of him just physically having sex with someone makes my blood boil too. Which is weird seeing as I don't have a high sex-drive myself.
Yes, it is weird, but common. Of course, it's not fair. Not getting enough sex/kink longterm can really do a number on a person's self esteem and general quality of life. The lack can loom larger and larger until it becomes so overwhelming it's nearly all one can think about. I suspect your h is already in that place.

Try and look at the benefits in it for you, to have a more relaxed fulfilled partner who can then devote more love and attention to you with that certain tension gone.

I would rather that if it has to happen that he just goes off and has affairs and didn't talk about them, but I know that I wouldn't in reality be 100% okay with that either.
We call that a dont ask dont tell relationship, or DADT. It works for some people. Even if it was "true poly," you can choose how many details you'd want to hear about his dates. You just need firm boundaries around how much time you are comfortable with him spending on other women each week (dating, texting, IMing and phone calls). New relationship energy (NRE) can really distract people.

Originally Posted by RaspberrySurprise View Post

...it could be hormonal or medical. Depression has been with me for sometime. I also take fluoxetine for it. plus I have PCOS which messes with my hormones. I wont go into the other medical issues on here but there are quite a few. I rarely am without a headache and am tired all the time.
This is a shame! I bet he is a bit burnt out being a caretaker to a person with multiple medical issues. If you two are good in other areas, another lover could nurture him and help him to help you. If you are not confident in his love and feeling inadequate, however, this could be a problem. You'd probably feel afraid he'd leave you for the other person.

I would love the "daydream" notion that I could be her best friend and he could have someone to do s&m with. But how likely is that?
Well, best friends, not real likely. But becoming good friends with your partner's partner (your metamour) can and does happen.

I know you wanted one on one attention here, but I highly recommend you read around the board, especially on the New to Poly section, to read about the common issues surrounding opening a marriage to polyamory. Coming from a mono mindset to poly can be a huge mindfuck.
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63), dating... again!
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my darling nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's Dom/bf since April 2013
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:17 PM
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JuliaGay JuliaGay is offline
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Hi, RS,

You've gotten lots of good advice, so I'm not sure what I can add. I am a married woman who is poly. Both my husband and I have OSOs. If you've got specific questions about things, I'm happy to answer as will others, I'm sure.

I also have PCOS and have never found it to mess with my libido, but I know that everyone is different.

Hang in there.

"But you've got to be tough when consumed by desire
'Cause it's not enough just to stand outside the fire
Life is not tried, it is merely survived
When you're standing outside the fire"
Garth Brooks and Jenny Yates
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:20 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Hi, RS:

You've been given some very good advice and I hope you'll take it to heart, but I would like to add my advice as another married woman whose husband wanted to try poly.

Trying polyamory very nearly destroyed our very strong, very stable marriage of 15+ years. I urge you in the strongest possible terms to carefully examine and address the root causes of the problems in your marriage before you attempt to add additional relationships to the mix.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:33 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Hi Raspberry Surprise--

I'm sorry you are suffering from poor health. That really sucks, and I think your husband might be accidentally putting too much pressure on you--I'll get to that in a minute.

Interestingly, both my sister and I have been diagnosed with PCOS, and we always thought that it accounted for our ramped up sex drives! We have just that little extra testosterone... it's so hard to predict how hormones will affect each person. Anyway, I'm not a doctor so I'm not going to comment on what might be affecting your sex drive. Different sex drives are totally normal so it's possible that you are just fine and there's nothing wrong with you--it might just be the way you're built, and that's okay!

Okay, about your husband: I think he is making a few rookie mistakes that are going to make this transition a little harder. Is he new to BDSM? Because if he is, he is going to want to explore the scene a little bit and learn a few things before he gets involved, hot and heavy, with dominating just one girl in a long-term love relationship. Very few submissives will get involved in a new Dom who doesn't know what he's doing yet. So what your husband needs to do is go to some BDSM events and get to know people, etc. There's literally a whole sort of community of kinky people that kind of take care of each other in most cities, and he's going to want to plug into that for support, and put off looking for a long-term relationship for awhile.

I feel like he is already accidentally "Domming" you by asking you to pick out the girl he falls in love with. He wants you to be involved, and he doesn't want to hurt you--all good impulses--but I'm not sure if he realizes how much pressure that puts on you. Picking out the girl yourself would mean that you will have to get involved in the BDSM scene too, find out what he likes, get to know people, and then pick out someone he might like. Even then, there's no guarantee he would fall in love with the girl you chose because love doesn't work like that.

If you are truly not interested in BDSM, it might be a whole lot easier on you if he went to his play parties without involving you, then he can see who he likes and let things evolve naturally with any girl he pleases.

Once he starts seeing a girl, he can then bring her to meet you, and you can be friendly and all have dinner, and you can be grateful to her for having rough sex with your husband when you don't want to, and you can all get along naturally. Doesn't that sound... easier?

Also, why would you and your husband stay married at all? It's important to talk about that. If you are allowing him to go outside your marriage to fulfill his sexual needs, which is totally legit, you have to make sure you've found your own niche. Do you still love each other? Do you have children? If he isn't having sex with you much, what other activities do you enjoy together? It will help your jealousy a lot if you two still have something special together. Do you have a TV show you both enjoy where you can sit and watch it and he can snuggle you and rub your back? Perhaps you can go on walks together, which might help your health too a little? Have some way where your relationship can be unique and affectionate, and he has to make sure he is still being your husband in this way.

Or you will just split up.
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:13 PM
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IrisAwakened IrisAwakened is offline
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Wow, what great advice! I am in the opposite situation, but it gives me wonderful insights as to how to help my husband deal!

Magdlyn- You completely hit the nail on the head. thank you!
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:06 PM
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Kealoha Kealoha is offline
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Originally Posted by RaspberrySurprise View Post
It is the thought of not being special that makes me feel jealous. Having to share him. Knowing that I wasn't enough. Of course the thought of him just physically having sex with someone makes my blood boil too. Which is weird seeing as I don't have a high sex-drive myself.
There is so much great advice here, but let me add my own comment. Regardless of what is going on, as long as he wants you as his wife, as long as he still loves you, you ARE SPECIAL. No matter who is involved, you are still his wife. You have so many options, but I would advise, like everyone else here, that you keep open communication. If you are uncomfortable with BDSM, this does not mean that you were "not enough". It simply means that he has needs you do not provide. This is not a fault on your part. Please remember this. Some people are just wired differently. It is a true heartache when two people who are wired so differently get married and are unable to figure out a happy medium. So many people break up over this very thing regardless of whether they are mono or poly. Some things, you don't find until after the marriage takes place. I think it's also important to remember as well, that this is probably something he does need. Funny thing...I have talked to so many people who have this strange idea that poly people aren't jealous. *laughs* I'm sure everyone here would agree that it isn't true. However, you really need to explore yourself, your mind, your boundaries and what you are willing to sacrifice here, before you decide to agree to this. If you agree to something you are not comfortable with, it will be difficult to hold your relationship together. If you don't, and his needs are not met...it may...hurt him to the point where things are unable to hold together... Maybe some counseling is in order? If it's your meds that are messing with you, maybe you should talk with your doctor. I wish you luck! I hope you will both find a way to be happy.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:12 AM
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Baron Baron is offline
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Dear All,

I am Raspberry Surprise's Husband. She asked that I enter the discussion. I had hoped not to interfere in the discussion. My interference is not always a good idea unless you are interested in rational efficiency. I hope people will not take exception to my only talking on my own behalf, rather than the more objective talking for both of us that is usual for me.

Marriage with RS is a bit like trying to combine a Pixar movie with Hellraiser. Sometimes it has proved impossible to balance the competing differences. In SM terms, I am a Sadist. In relationship terms, I am very unhappy and have been so for most of the relationship. I have no intention of rehashing all the many problems or past difficulties we have in our relationship. I expect anyone who has been in a relationship for longer than a year would have a similar list. Our problem has been the lack of intimacy and commitment to our relationship, which has led to my losing trust and belief in RS. I have tried to talk to RS about these issues, but it has proved very difficult to get her attention.

Our relationship was always intended as a permanent one. We had to wait 5-6 years before we could move in together and a further two years before we could get married. My condition of marching down the aisle was that we sort out our relationship problems beforehand. RS didn't help so I marched down the aisle anyway in the hope that we could work things out afterwards. This wasn't attempted so we went for 6 years of relationship therapy with a very good therapist. This didn't work so we have been in limbo for about 2.5 years. I have had previous relationships and know this should be a good one but I am not being met half-way for this entire time. I ran out of ideas and hope long ago.

Our therapist suggested my seeing an alternative partner in our third session together. RS used to say that only the fantasy of my sleeping with someone else interested her intensely. However, my first discussions about including someone else were completely independent of these earlier suggestions. RS resisted the idea but I couldn't let it go because I know what an intimate relationship is like and I miss it terribly. I would have preferred a monogamous relationship, but that is not possible. I still want to maintain a relationship with my wife who I love. Therefore, I need an answer that meets these conditions.

Even if I hadn't already learned a little about Polyamory, my common sense would still have told me that we need to fix our marriage before meeting someone else. It is what I have tried for many years. I am hoping that Poly will galvanise some action and permanently break the stalemate. The penalty for not doing so is Divorce as I am no longer willing to accept the status quo. It has become worse than death. In answer to someone's question, we do not have any children because of the lack of intimacy. Before anyone flames me off the wall, I fully realise that this situation is less than ideal. I have told RS that even though I think Poly is an absolute necessity for us, it would be unfair to destroy someone else's hopes and dreams with our problems. We still need to sort them out before we move into unknown territory.

Jade wanted to know which of three categories I was interested in. I am not interested in playing in online scenes (too many LOL's), no strings attached encounters or a friend with benefits. I want stability and a long-term commitment from someone that means something to me. This means the Poly relationship. I want RS to be friends with that person because I am not willing to sneak about in the background, leading a hidden life that can never be spoken of. I will not allow myself to be vulnerable to blame or be kept under control because of someone else's embarrassment or distaste. Another very important reason is that if I accept less than the ideal, then RS will withdraw from any kind of responsibility for the situation or maintaining our marriage. A strong friendship between RS and the other person would prevent the time constraints between partners damaging the relationship,

I don't believe I am "Domming" RS by wanting her to be friends with this potential other person. I bully people for a specific purpose, for my good and theirs. I am not trying to make her do something she really does not want to do. At best, I am just using what I am to best effect. I want RS to confront the situation and not retreat from it or pretend it doesn't exist.

I would regret that anyone take offence at the following comments, but in answer to some points raised by Magdlyn, for years, whenever I close my eyes, I can feel the slap of my hand against a woman's face. I can see the look of surprise, shock and hurt that spreads across their face. It makes me feel happy and good and I want to do it some more. This is a big step-up from many years ago. I was so stressed with problems and responsibilities that if ever I shut my eyes with tiredness, I would feel a sudden lurch of falling into nowhere from a great height and would immediately snap-back to attention with a start. Unfortunately, not relieving my feelings has leaked into everyday life over the years, sometimes positively, sometimes not. Please rest assured that I am not violent or dangerous, but I have different needs from the majority of people and one of them is for someone who would look forward to receiving what I have to offer. I fully accept that some people might feel that I am abhorrent for doing something that I feel is quite ordinary, so hopefully we can all accept that as read and move to the more important matter at hand.

If I have a hope for Poly, it is that I can have a happy relationship with my wife. I still want to share with her, especially the SM that is important to me, but I hope that some of the pressure will be removed from the problem. I hope that this will change the nature of the problem from the impossible to the well-travelled. One good thing that I hope for is to not feel so bitter about the many lost years. I have almost died on a number of occasions. One change that comes from that is realising that wasting even one day of our short lives is an epic tragedy. So far I have been kept in a position of wasting almost two decades. I want that to be a moment where the slate is wiped clean and the relationship begins again. I can't be more precise about how I see a Poly relationship developing because that third person is not yet present to make her needs known. Importantly, my wife has also not made her needs within a possible Poly relationship known. I therefore feel quite paralysed from doing anything more.

When I got married, I accepted "in sickness and in health". Sometimes, RS's health-concerns have overtaken the relationship to the exclusion of all else. Sometimes I have required respite, but it has felt like it is only me who has the responsibility. It would be nice to share the load a little, which sounds a bit weak. Michellezed raised the issue of inexperience. I once had previous relationships where I was sadistic or dominant. I just didn't have the names or terms to describe it at the time. It was just fun and made me want more. However, putting aside out own attempts, I am 17 years out of date. I know that planning is very different from execution, but I really want to catch-up with new opportunities. Not trying to be creepy, but I have had a lot of time to think and I have had a lot of interesting ideas over the years.

There is probably a lot more I could and should say, but I am quite tired and it is very late (2am GMT). I have no idea if any of what I have written makes any sense and I expect I have missed something that was important. I expect some might take pot shots at an inconsistency, or take offence at what I have written, but I hope others might realise that I mean what I say and am looking for a solution to a very difficult problem.

Thanks for listening,

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marriage vs. polyamory, troubled marriage

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