forgiveness

genebean

New member
He cheated and lied..it hurt. I am having trouble letting it go, it keeps popping up in conversation and turning a conversation into a fight. I am angry and hurt and I can honestly say that I hate the female that participated. I have never wanted to hit someone over the head with a frying pan more in my life. Forgiveness is not my strong point. Any tips on forgiving him and her?
 
Me neither. I've been known to hold a grudge for a very long time. I've gotten better at forgiving and moving on as I've aged but it - and patience - will never be my strong suit.

There is so much on the forum about cheating and how to recover from the loss of trust and painful feelings. It's a long, hard road if one really gets to the point of true forgiveness. Search for cheating, trust and keywords like that.

Is this the same partner that you've written about before here?

My only question is do you want to forgive him? What's in it for you? You stay in the relationship with him? If that's the price of admission for you to stay in the relationship, then is that worth it for you? Is he and the relationship you have worth doing the hard work of forgiveness? (I am speaking about both of you. It is possible to forgive those who never repent but I do not suggest staying in a romantic relationship in such a situation.)
 
Its a long, hard road. I don't know if its worth it for any relationship. The successful "forgive after affair" situations that I have known of, were all situations where there were shared children & property.
 
He is one and the same. I feel its worth atleast some effort, though its difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I care so very much for him but I sometimes feel like he would rather not have to consider a significant other. He vehemently denies that this is the case and says that he made a big mistake in doing what he did. I know that he regrets cheating on me but at the same time he did it multiple times, so it was a choice not a "what have I done, I feel so bad, ill never do it again" kinda deal. We are working on it, but I have so much doubt and uncertainty that it clouds things up a bit.
 
Ohhhh, genebean. Forgiveness is a wonderful thing but there is such a thing as being too forgiving. There is such a long history of Polypenguin being an ass toward you, treating you disrespectfully, and then you always just sit around and mope about it, wondering what to do. Then he comes here and complains that you won't give him what he wants. You always forgive him and then he disrespects you again. If you stay with him, the two of you seem destined to hurt each other. You both seem to be emotionally ill-equipped to handle your relationship. It's getting ridiculous now.

So, I ask you - how much more crappy treatment are you willing to put up with? How much is too much? When the hell are you going to get up and walk away from someone who treats you like shit? When will you actually do something about it and create a better life for yourself instead of sticking with the same loser and wondering why you're unhappy?

You can love and care about someone to the end of the universe, but an asshole is still an asshole even if you love him, and there's no reason to continue letting him treat you like dirt and cheat on you.
 
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Love doesnt equal compatible.
I love my Spicy Peas dad.
But OMG I am SO glad we ended it 20 yrs ago! We get along much better as exes raising a child, both of us invested in lovers we ARE compatible with.

Loving someone isn't a sign that there's a good relationship probability.
 
Forgiveness is a wonderful thing but there is such a thing as being too forgiving.

Forgiveness is just about getting over the resentment, guilt, shame, etc feelings which tend to come with betrayal of trust. It's just about being able to move on and 'be ok' with the past... not letting it fuck up your present.

It is *not* a statement about what to do from there. Just because I don't feel a knot in my stomach about when someone has betrayed me in the past in no way suggests that I should have them in my life or that I should allow myself to be set up in the same or similar situation again. I still get to learn from my experiences and pick the best path for my present.
 
I am so sorry you are going through this. I myself, am absolutely zero tolerance to cheating. I am not sure I could get over it. I know some people who have gotten past it, but I don't know that they ever got over it. I think it can be especially hard for poly people who need an exceptional level of trust and security in their relationships.

I hope you figure out what works best for you. You have a lot of questions to ask yourself. At the very least, I would take some time just for you, without him around and figure out the answers to these questions.

Change can be scary. Especially when you have known one thing for so long.

While you are contemplating your choices, please remember.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. -Einstein
Are you planning on doing something different? or just getting over it? If you don't change anything, nothing will change. Seems logical, but when you are hurt, simple logic can slip by covered by heartache.
 
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I'm in a relationship with a long-term partner who cheated and lied. I won't pretend it was easy and there's so much to say, but there are a few reasons why I am here still with him right now:

1. He took full responsibility and it stopped.
2. What we have together is really important -- values, interests, shared experiences (no kids, no property)
3. We did couples counseling with a poly counselor who pretty much put him on the spot as we worked through issues. I decided I was done with him and he asked me for one last attempt. Things aren't perfect, I don't fully trust like I used to, but I do believe that he has changed, continues to change, has become a better communicator and better at understanding his motivation and behavior.

But the most important is this:
I was ready to leave him. I was clear. My life could go on without him and could be wonderful and I would survive. In a very real sense, it was an ultimatum, witnessed by the counselor, that he had no space for mistakes anymore. The issues that continued prior to seeing the counselor were not cheating or lying, but were about not keeping agreements to the letter (weaseling around time, etc.). At that point, it was all or nothing and I told him if he really felt he couldn't live up to it, that was fine, but he couldn't be with me anymore.

I will also say that one of the things that swayed me to try is knowing that I've made mistakes myself and that some of us do have the capacity to change. But, again, I set a limit and it was important. Forgiveness is a choice. I have chosen not to forgive my childhood abuser, but in this case I did the "math" (yes, it was that clinical of a thought process) and decided I had more to gain if it could work out.
 
An ultimatum is ok if you mean it. It is not ok if you are using it to try to trip someone into doing your bidding. In general, people on here counsel others NOT to issue ultimatums due to the fact that the manipulative type of ultimatums, "you better or else" almost always backfire, and when they do not backfire, there are often repercussions that set the relationship up for failure at some point. But when a person is genuinely DONE "trying" and not getting anywhere, it is perfectly ok to say, "these are your choices, i am fine with either. Pick one and let's move forward". While that is by definition an ultimatum, it does not deserve the negative quality usually attributed to the other type of ultimatum.
 
In general, people on here counsel others NOT to issue ultimatums due to the fact that the manipulative type of ultimatums, "you better or else" almost always backfire, and when they do not backfire, there are often repercussions that set the relationship up for failure at some point.

I'm fairly well acquainted with this language issue since I've had open/poly relationships for over 2 decades. And in this case, ultimatum is the precise word I feel is called for because there really aren't many other linguistic options.

BoringGuy, I think your comment was more nuanced, so this isn't directed at you, but one of the dangers I see with the folks who think the word "ultimatum" or its essence are the worst thing in poly relationships is that it often guilt-trips people into thinking that they have to endlessly negotiate, even beyond their own hard boundaries. Yes, all relationships (human/non-human) are contingent and are built on a series of negotiations and compromises, but I think limits are necessary for self-respect, well-being, survival (particularly for many women).

I would counsel genebean to really try to think about what those limits are for her to be happy and have self-respect, and then use that to guide both forgiveness and the next steps. If your boyfriend(?) keeps pushing past your stated limits without taking responsibility and acknowledging his need to change his behavior if he wants to be with you, is that healthy for you? What would you lose by breaking up? And, more significantly, what would you gain by not being with him?
 
Boundaries are by definition, ultimatums.

Boundaries are good things to have because they say to the other person, this is what I will tolerate and this is what I will not. They are the essence of respecting yourself as a person.

Forgiveness is the mechanism that allows a person who has been wronged to move on with their life. You can forgive someone and remove them from your life. It doesn't mean that you have to continue a relationship with them if you believe they will continue to disrespect your boundaries. Forgiveness is not for the wrong doer. It is for the wronged.

Forgiveness is radical acceptance of the pain and any resulting anger. Give yourself permission to feel these things. It means you are alive. Then forgiveness is the conscious decision to let it go. A wise man once said that attachment is the source of all misery. Let go your attachment to the pain. Let go your attachment to the anger. It won't happen overnight. It's a process. It will come back. Each time it does, let it go again. Eventually you will find your peace.
 
my dog is singing along to my crying.

I ended it. It fucking hurts, really fucking badly. I love him, I doubt l'll ever stop loving him but I can't do it anymore. I can't expect him to understand my betrayal and how betrayed I felt by situations in the past. We haven't moved forward from any of the shit that has gone down and that's all I wanted before we explored poly again. Is gaining trust too much to ask? But he wasn't willing to do the work unless it involved his immediate freedom, which is tough to give without trust. He ostracized me for feeling the way I did time and time again. He resented my hesitation. It hurts so bad but I can't be in a relationship that I don't feel respected or loved anymore.
 
I ended it. It fucking hurts, really fucking badly. I love him, I doubt l'll ever stop loving him but I can't do it anymore. I can't expect him to understand my betrayal and how betrayed I felt by situations in the past. We haven't moved forward from any of the shit that has gone down and that's all I wanted before we explored poly again. Is gaining trust too much to ask? But he wasn't willing to do the work unless it involved his immediate freedom, which is tough to give without trust. He ostracized me for feeling the way I did time and time again. He resented my hesitation. It hurts so bad but I can't be in a relationship that I don't feel respected or loved anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdVcKrgSHHQ
 
The first step in building a respectful relationship, is to respect yourself and your own boundaries. Therefore-if he wasn't respecting them, your best step is to work, one step at a time through the pain of leaving so that you can solidly set your foot down in respecting your own boundaries. Good job.
 
I ended it . . . It hurts so bad but I can't be in a relationship that I don't feel respected or loved anymore.

I am sorry it feels so shitty for you right now, but it sounds like the right thing to do in this case. Walking away is a step toward building up your self-esteem, and opens the door for more, better, loving possibilities in your life. No one should stay in relationships where they are disrespected, even if there is love there.

STAY STRONG! In six months, in a year, you will look back at this and feel grateful that you were brave enough to let go of someone you loved but who consistently hurt you with his disregard for who you are.

I have a strong feeling that good things will come your way now that you have said, "No more!" and are willing to move forward in your life without him.
 
I'm sorry genebean. I think it is better for you in the long run. But it does hurt and while that pain will ease with time, I know how little consolation that is right now.
 
So sorry to hear about your pain.
I initiated a break up in December. I don't know what your resources are, but my break up coincided with a trip to a nice place for vacation; I would recommend it if you can treat yourself. I spent some alone time really using the situation to regain some of the balance I had lost in myself as that relationship ended. I came out of it stronger.
Also, if there's any "let's be friends now" talk, try to resist it until you've healed. You don't owe anyone your friendship until you are ready to give it willingly.
 
Ultimatums

There are often going to be times in a relationship where you reach an impasse: your needs become oppositional and the actions that occur as a result of these needs hurt the other person. This is something that they cannot tolerate and nor do I think they should have to, they have to raise the issue. They have to give an ultimatum, of sorts. Now, ultimatum has such bad connotations because often, the way they are presented belittles, demonizes and rejects the right the other person has to want different things that you do.

For example, lets use a situation where a wife does not want to be part of a non monogamous relationship anymore because she is unable to feel valued whilst her partner is seeing other people. A bad way to present this would be to state that you either give up your other partners or it's over. A good way to present this would be to state that she is unable to feel valued in this type of relationship, despite any efforts he has made to reassure her of her place in his life, and she cannot continue the relationship and be happy and healthy. They both mean the same thing: I can't do this anymore, I am going to end the relationship if it doesn't stop, but one acknowledges that his needs are not inferior or "less right" than her needs. Even if they are different from the norm. It also acknowledges any efforts he has made in order to maintain their relationship.

The most important part of making this a good ultimatum rather than a bad one is if they state that they need to have non monogamous relationships to be happy and healthy, the wife cannot vilify them for having different needs. She cannot make him out to be a bad guy for not simply agreeing to do what make makes her happy. She has to accept that they want different things at this point and that is okay.
 
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