Wife thinks that opening up the marriage will help. I disagree.

OhSnap

New member
In 2008 my wife suffered from a stroke. This has caused the left half of her body to become completely paralysed. It's been a very rough couple of years and we've gone through many changes, but we have managed to find some semblance of normalcy.

For the first 2 years, the lack of sex was never really an issue. I've had so much to do that it was one of the last things on my mind. It's just that I've started missing it since the beginning of this year.

I've discussed this with my wife and she believes that setting up an arrangement with one of our closest friends is the solution. She thinks that this is the safest option since her friend and I are trustworthy and STD-free, and she's known us both for most of her life. Her friend is a little bit nervous but is okay with the idea as long as my wife and I approve.

Here's why I don't believe that this will help, and why I have decided not to go through with the arrangement...

I don't miss the physical aspect of sex. Physical gratification has never been important to me, and is something that I can easily live without.

I miss the emotional aspect of sex. I'm a very physical person, meaning that I like to show and share affection and care through kisses, hugs, holding hands, cuddling in bed etc. For me, sex is a very good way to emotionally bond.

This is something that I've been finding difficult to articulate verbally to my wife, and I don't have anybody to talk to about this in my life (other than a counsellor, who hasn't been very helpful). I don't really have any unmet needs per se. I don't feel emotionally lonely and I don't believe that another relationship will make me any happier. I don't miss sex, in itself (if that makes sense) but I do miss having sex with my wife. That is why I have been apprehensive to starting a relationship with our friend.

I can understand why my wife has built a bit of a wall around herself, and has become physically closed off. It isn't my intention to pressure her into doing something that she doesn't want to do.

If you do believe that opening the relationship will help, I'd like to know why because I genuinely don't understand. What I think would help, is alternatives to sex, but my wife disagrees. Any other perspectives would be appreciated.

My wife will also be reading this, so if anyone has any direct advice for her, that would be great.
 
Well of course, as the one who would be "benefiting" from opening the marriage, if you don't think it would help, of course it wouldn't.

What I think would help, is alternatives to sex, but my wife disagrees. .

So what are these alternatives you think WOULD help, and why is your wife disagreeing they would when you obviously think they would help you? Does she just not want to do them, participate in them, insist they wouldn't help? You are the one who knows what would help you, so for her to tell you that you are wrong could strike a far deeper issue that she may be trying to avoid.

edit: if you think there would be benefits but just don't want to admit it because you're worried that your wife is OK with the "idea" but not the application, it can't hurt to spend some serious time considering it if that would make the difference if you were going to live happily ever after or not, but if you are content and happy, there is certainly no rush or even sense to push for something that you seem uncomfortable with.
 
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Would it be acceptable to you to tentatively date this friend and see if there is any chemistry?

You could set sex aside, and just enjoy each other's company, and see what happens. Maybe sex will happen, and maybe it won't. You don't have to force the relationship to go someplace; just see where it naturally wants to go.
 
Here's why I don't believe that this will help, and why I have decided not to go through with the arrangement...

I don't miss the physical aspect of sex. Physical gratification has never been important to me, and is something that I can easily live without.

I miss the emotional aspect of sex. I'm a very physical person, meaning that I like to show and share affection and care through kisses, hugs, holding hands, cuddling in bed etc. For me, sex is a very good way to emotionally bond.

I don't understand why her physical issues preclude cuddling, holding hands, hugging and kissing. ???

Is she afraid you'll get too aroused and want to cum? Why? Surely she could get you off with her good hand or hold you while you masturbate, if you feel the need for a release.
 
If you don't want the friend, you don't want the friend. There's really nothing more that can be said.

It sounds like you do want to reconnect with your wife, and that she's feeling like she isn't able to do that right now, or is afraid you'll want more than she can give. Maybe the two of you could talk about the kind of physical/emotional intimacy you're looking for and try a few things out. Start slow! Perhaps you can snuggle on the couch while watching a movie.
 
In 2008 my wife suffered from a stroke. This has caused the left half of her body to become completely paralysed. It's been a very rough couple of years and we've gone through many changes, but we have managed to find some semblance of normalcy.

For the first 2 years, the lack of sex was never really an issue. I've had so much to do that it was one of the last things on my mind. It's just that I've started missing it since the beginning of this year.

I've discussed this with my wife and she believes that setting up an arrangement with one of our closest friends is the solution. She thinks that this is the safest option since her friend and I are trustworthy and STD-free, and she's known us both for most of her life. Her friend is a little bit nervous but is okay with the idea as long as my wife and I approve.

Here's why I don't believe that this will help, and why I have decided not to go through with the arrangement...

I don't miss the physical aspect of sex. Physical gratification has never been important to me, and is something that I can easily live without.

I miss the emotional aspect of sex. I'm a very physical person, meaning that I like to show and share affection and care through kisses, hugs, holding hands, cuddling in bed etc. For me, sex is a very good way to emotionally bond.

This is something that I've been finding difficult to articulate verbally to my wife, and I don't have anybody to talk to about this in my life (other than a counsellor, who hasn't been very helpful). I don't really have any unmet needs per se. I don't feel emotionally lonely and I don't believe that another relationship will make me any happier. I don't miss sex, in itself (if that makes sense) but I do miss having sex with my wife. That is why I have been apprehensive to starting a relationship with our friend.

I can understand why my wife has built a bit of a wall around herself, and has become physically closed off. It isn't my intention to pressure her into doing something that she doesn't want to do.

My wife will also be reading this, so if anyone has any direct advice for her, that would be great.

The love between you is so obvious. She wants to make sure you are happy and have your needs met. You miss your wife intimately and want to make her happy. Because of this love and caring, you two are way ahead in figuring out how to make each other happy and continue growing your marriage, whether that relationship ultimately includes other people sexually or not.

I would suggest finding another counselor for you, OhSnap, and maybe your wife. Sometimes counselors just don't work out. If your wife finds the counselor is helping her, then find someone just for you.

I also suggest finding a sex therapist that is familiar with and used to dealing with issues of sexuality and severe injury. You and your wife are certainly not alone in dealing with paralysis and sexuality. There must be therapists with experience in helping folks in your same situation. I suggest checking out AASECT - The American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists. They are at: http://www.aasect.org/. Plus, if y'all do go the non-monogamy route, these folks are less likely to be judgmental about that.

Also, have you or she looked at the Five Love Languages? (If you google that term, the book will come up as well several online tests. There are threads about the Five Love Languages here too - it comes up often.) Knowing your love language is helpful because you can articulate to others how you feel loved and how you express love to others. The author states that people express love and want love expressed to them differently. And if you have two people with different love languages, communication issues can come up. I would bet money that you express and feel love through Physical Touch. Before her stroke, you and your wife might have been the same love language. Or maybe not. At any rate, her love language may have shifted because of the impact of the stroke - or it may not have but the situation may have moved her away from expressing love the way she would have before the stroke. Take a look at the book and the tests - it can be a useful tool to understanding each other a bit better.

It seems like non-monogamy for you is not what you want right now, and maybe ever. You miss physical intimacy with your wife (which does not automatically equate to sexual intercourse).

I am going to make some assumptions about how I think I would feel in your wife's situation. This may or may not be useful for your wife. First, a woman's sexuality, and desire, is so dependent on an almost infinite set of changing factors - hormonal interactions, stress, child care, medical problems, issues at work, emotional state, sleep and all kinds of other things. Upset those delicate interactions with severe trauma and well, I think I too would probably find it easier, and maybe necessary if only for a while, to physically close myself off. I would not feel like my body was my body but something new and unfamiliar. I might hate parts or all of that new body at least some of the time. Touch is so important to intimacy; I do not know how I would get that feeling of intimacy without being able to feel touch on large parts of my body. [I'm sure there are ways but I have trouble conceptualizing it.] Since I am restricted on what I can feel on large parts of my body, that would likely affect how the rest of my body feels and moves in small as well as larger ways. I doubt I would feel sexy at all, at least for a while. My idea of sexy would have to be completely rebuilt and reorganized. If I had problems speaking or organizing my thoughts, that would compound any and all frustrations I had.

I urge you and your wife to find someone, even if they are not expert in injury and sexuality, to talk about how to meet each other's needs and wants. You (OhSnap) are open to ways to do that that are not traditional sex (i.e. intercourse). That will help. Non-monogamy may be one way to do that - down the road after lots of other avenues have been explored.
 
Well if you're not into it then no it's not gonna help. I think like others have said she might be worried you'll want more than you can give. I also agree with every counselor not being for every person.
 
It sounds like you see sex as an intimate connection that deeply bonds you to another rather than sex being a physical act that relieves you and is fun to participate in. Is your wife okay with you establishing a love relationship that includes sex with this woman? Or is her expectation that you only have sex an not get any closer than the friendship you already have? What does the woman expect and how does she view sex? Is she aware that it could be the beginning of a loving partnership?

I wonder if your wife is struggling with her body and has given up on thoughts of closeness. If you are content to cuddle and kiss her and masturbate then whats the issue here? Is it her issues around that? Is there anything that she can participate in or that she wants sexually? Or is there no connection to her body...? Its hard to grasp what is going on for her in this.
 
My wife and I have read through all of your posts. Appreciated (especially opalescent's kinda large post). She can be a bit stubborn which is partly why she believes that this is a good idea, so it's good to get a variety of views. I mostly agree with what has been posted.

My wife is still considering polyamory (I honestly feel kind of stupid for not understanding how this will make our situation any better). But our plan is to work around our current schedules so that we have more time for each other.

It is largely an insecurity issue on her end. I want to show her that I don't think any less of her but it's difficult when only one person is "into it". She used to have a very active lifestyle so this hasn't helped her self-esteem.

Also, there are other complications that have arisen due to her stroke, making sex, romance and intimacy a bit more difficult. There's also been a shift in personality and other such issues.

I just want to clarify...

Is she afraid you'll get too aroused and want to cum? Why? Surely she could get you off with her good hand or hold you while you masturbate, if you feel the need for a release.

I have no interest in sexual gratification. Most people don't believe me when I say this. It gets a bit depressing.

If anyone has anything else to add, that'd be great. Have a good day/night.
 
Are you afraid that you will fall in love with the friend? You have equated intimate contact with emotional attachment so that maybe this is your fear. Regardless of the answer to that question, if you don't want to do it, then don't, it won't help.

Is your wife afraid that she is not being fair to you because she is incapable of the intimacy now? Maybe that is the reason she thinks it's a good idea. Either way, it is very obvious there is a lot of love there.

There are lots of ways to show intimate emotional affections. Cuddling close, brushing her hair for her, a gentle kiss anywhere, a stroking of the cheek, millions of ways to say 'Ilove you'. I don't think that is the issue. I think you are both having the discussions that lead to a decision of polyamory. She seems to be worried about your needs and you seem to be rolling it around in your head whether you even want to take the chance you might develop feelings for this other person....or you may simply not be into this other person.

In my opinion, you and your wife are in the early stages of this growing conversation. Be open and honest. Say exactly to one another what you feel and mean. Don't censor your feelings or words. Talk about what each of you expect should you go through with it and discuss this with the other woman as well. Don't only discuss what the immediate results might be, but also the long term. Would it happen a second time? What if it's still happening in the years to come? What if its a disaster? Would you still all be friends? There is lots to consider. I think the most important questions are gonna be between you and your wife right now.

Good Luck
 
I just want to clarify...



I have no interest in sexual gratification. Most people don't believe me when I say this. It gets a bit depressing.

If anyone has anything else to add, that'd be great. Have a good day/night.

I found some fascinating insights when reading about Tantric Lovemaking. The focus is not on orgasms but on the full physical, emotional, and spiritual presence of one another in the bedroom. It's lovely.

I admire your honesty and your resistance to something you do not see as a solution to your problem. It's cool that your wife is open to seeking solutions, and she cares about your needs. I must say, I encouraged my husband to seek out another woman. He resisted, then he finally caved, and all hell broke loose. We are probably heading for divorce. Stick to your truth and keep being honest. You say you "feel stupid for not seeing how this will make [y]our situation any better." If you can't envision it, there is no reason to force it, nor to feel stupid that you can't see it. Maybe reading some other people's true life stories here will give you some insight. Poly can be a beautiful dream come true for some people. For others, it only makes a difficult situation WORSE. Only you and your wife (with maybe the right counselor) can figure out what will work best for you.

It's great that you came here to at least do the research! That shows an immense love and an open heart right there. :)
 
Are you afraid that you will fall in love with the friend? You have equated intimate contact with emotional attachment so that maybe this is your fear.

I'm not really afraid. I just don't see how this will improve anything. If a start a romantic relationship with another woman and fall in love with her, I'll still be lacking in the intimacy department with my wife. That was the issue in the first place.

Thank you for the rest of your advice.

I just want to say that I can equate sex with nothing more than f*cking. Sexual gratification doesn't interest me.

Tantric Lovemaking.

I'll educate myself on this subject. And I'll continue reading stories on this site.
 
This is a very sweet thread. It looks like your wife is afraid that you're hurtin' for it. But if you say you're not, you're not!

Hear that, Mrs. OhSnap? You can stop throwing twats at him now. He doesn't seem to be interested.

Also, Mrs. OhSnap, I'm very sorry that you've had to deal with such a lifestyle change. If you were active before, and now you're forced to be sedentary, that can be a real adjustment where you just don't feel like "you" anymore. I hope you are seeing a counselor or something to talk about the real grief you must be feeling for your "old life".
 
Here is what I see from the situation you described. I will be rather blunt so no offense intended. Firstly my hat is off to you for being so devoted and loving to your wife, disability or not. Secondly, you stated you had a hard time relating your feeling or the situation with your wife, but you seemed to do a pretty damn good job of it here and if she is reading all of this then you have in fact told her. I find it rather ridiculus that she doesnt feel she can provide your emotional need to bond with her because she is paralized on one side. That isnt a physical or intimacy problem that is a psychological hurdle on her part. She feels less of a woman? Broken and damaged so she wants you to have what "she cant give" via a third party? Sorry but I call bullshit on that one. It is up to both of you to specifically say exactly what you are feeling, it doesnt matter if you blunder it at first. Communication is key, it is obvious that she is a very deep and meaningful part of your life and she should realize that you dont care about the physical sex, you dont want sex, you want her and that includes more, very much more than her body or what she can or cant DO for you. She has to tell you exactly what, why, when and how she feels the way she does. When tow people are as dedicated and love one another as it seems you two are you can deal with opening up the guns on these problems, you can't, nor should treat deep issues like a delicate glass menagerie but give them a kick in the ass. I doesnt mean you dont love that person or are thinking any less of them or the issue. Of course I say all of this casually, naturally there is more to it than I know, you know one another well enough to approach these things tactfully, and if you dont know ffs ask! Best of luck to you and her, you dont need a third, you need to trust each other.
 
Maybe SHE is the poly one

I just haven't seen that much discussion about your wife's sexual wants and needs... :eek:

I know she hasn't been able to "gratify" you in the same way and she seems to feel guilty about that and thinks this might be good for you... But if she is so persistent :confused:even when you make it very clear that you don't want this...

Is it possible that she wants a poly relationship for herself? :cool:

I'm not sure what exactly she is physically able and not able to do, but maybe having another person around would benefit HER :D in some way that you are not considering...

Would you be open to letting her explore seeing others? Maybe even using online dating chats, or meeting people who are in a similar physical condition as her?

You seem to be a very sensitive person so maybe she's afraid that bringing this up will make you feel guilty or inadequate... and since you seem like such a great partner, that's probably the last thing she wants!!

Feel free to dismiss this suggestion heartily, haha, but... it seemed to be an ignored face of the diamond.
 
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I'm not really afraid. I just don't see how this will improve anything. If a start a romantic relationship with another woman and fall in love with her, I'll still be lacking in the intimacy department with my wife. That was the issue in the first place.

I'm a firm believer in the notion that polyamory is not a way to repair troubled relationships. You're nail-on-the-head with the idea that going outside the marriage will do nothing to improve circumstances between you and your wife.

I agree that it sounds as though her issues are more psychological than physical. Unless it causes her some kind of discomfort (i.e. some joint/muscle disorders can make cuddling painful, some nerve disorders can make gentle caresses feel like burns or scratches), there is no physical reason why you can't hold her, have her lay with her head in your lap or vice-versa, and even get naked and just feel each other's skin against the other (on her good side).

Someone else suggested tantra. I think it's worth looking into. You would probably want to find an experienced teacher, especially with her condition. Tantra is about moving energy through the body's channels, and I'm not familiar with how a stroke would affect those channels. I'm guessing quite substantially, though.

As for missing sex with your wife, unfortunately that may just be something you have to overcome emotionally. She may never be able to do that, but that doesn't mean you can't be physically intimate in other ways.
 
I agree with LittleSara--my first thought was that your wife might be the one desiring a poly relationship. Maybe SHE has been harboring feelings for her friend? Maybe she's dreaming of a committed threesome relationship?

Or, alternately, maybe her friend has been harboring feelings for you, and your wife knows it and wants to let her friend be with you?

Regardless, the biggest benefit of polyamory that I can think of is that, if there were more than two people in a marriage, there would be more than one person sharing the burden of caring for the spouse who is ill.

When I see a spouse shouldering the whole burden of caring for their very ill partner, that's when I tend to think, "Monogamy is not enough for the demands of real life."

By the way, please don't forget to tell the friend that you actually are not at all interested in a sexual relationship with her. The subject had already been broached with her, and she was open to the idea, right? So she might be hurt if you don't follow through. Please tell her what you wrote here: You don't miss sex, you miss sex with your wife.

And now a totally different interpretation:

Here's what I think. I think your wife is not able to be EMOTIONALLY intimate with you right now (let alone physically intimate). And I think it's perfectly reasonable and okay for her not be able to provide you with emotional intimacy right now.

Your wife is experiencing physical disability, mental changes, personality changes, emotional changes, (probably) fears of mortality, fears of being a burden on you forever, and a whole lot of other stuff I can't even imagine.

Perhaps she simply needs to be emotionally and psychologically alone to deal with all of this?

Especially the personality changes--she has no idea who she is now. She needs to get to know herself, on her own, before she can provide you with the emotional intimacy you crave.

We tend to think that emotional intimacy is always good and always necessary. We feel that if people have a problem with emotional intimacy, they need to deal with it and fix it and learn to communicate better.

That's not always the case. Sometimes people need to go through something on their own, internally. I think that can even sometimes be healthier, more realistic, and better proof of psychological resilience and self-sufficiency.

This is a bit of a grim example, but I'm reminded of the Jewish tradition of being alone on your deathbed--the practice of turning your face to the wall in your final moment, to be alone with God. (I'm not Jewish, so forgive me if I totally got that wrong). That is meant to be a deeply religious moment, but as an atheist I always interpreted it as the need to be psychologically alone, to find peace with yourself.

On a much less extreme note, I have a chronic jaw condition that causes me pain periodically, and I prefer to withdraw and be alone when I'm having a flare-up. I just can't stand to see people upset at how much pain I'm in--it's hard enough just managing the pain myself. Having someone trying to help me DOESN'T help me. I can get through it better when it's just me and my body and my mind.

Sometimes emotional intimacy is just too much of a burden to keep up, or too much of a demand to ask for.

There's really nothing wrong with that. Especially since it will probably get better eventually, with patience. Be there for your wife, help her physically, and stop making emotional demands of her. She's dealing with her own emotions right now--she doesn't need yours on top of that.

I don't mean to sound harsh. But it does sound like your wife feels she can't meet your needs right now, but that it's not really your sexual needs (which aren't that important to you), it's your emotional needs she can't meet.

Maybe you would consider developing emotional closeness with the friend, so that you have someone to talk to intimately, maybe even do non-sexual things with like cuddling or even just going to the movies, to help yourself cope better?

Some poly people have more intimate (non-sexual) friendships than mono people do, simply because in traditional monogamy, you aren't really supposed to be deeply emotionally intimate with anyone besides your spouse. But that puts quite a burden on one person, doesn't it?
 
I really don't have anything useful to add to this thread. But I wanted to say how inspiring your love for your wife is. Reading through all of this, the love you have for her is very evident. It's truly heartwarming how much you care for her. Best of luck to you both
 
We tend to think that emotional intimacy is always good and always necessary. We feel that if people have a problem with emotional intimacy, they need to deal with it and fix it and learn to communicate better.

That's not always the case. Sometimes people need to go through something on their own, internally. I think that can even sometimes be healthier, more realistic, and better proof of psychological resilience and self-sufficiency.

This is a bit of a grim example, but I'm reminded of the Jewish tradition of being alone on your deathbed--the practice of turning your face to the wall in your final moment, to be alone with God. (I'm not Jewish, so forgive me if I totally got that wrong). That is meant to be a deeply religious moment, but as an atheist I always interpreted it as the need to be psychologically alone, to find peace with yourself.

.......

Some poly people have more intimate (non-sexual) friendships than mono people do, simply because in traditional monogamy, you aren't really supposed to be deeply emotionally intimate with anyone besides your spouse. But that puts quite a burden on one person, doesn't it?

MR, some of the best food for thought I have ever read on this forum. W.O.W.

OhSnap, hope things are going ok for you today.
 
Thanks Michelle. I also agree with RSM, we have some communication issues.

I just haven't seen that much discussion about your wife's sexual wants and needs...

Is it possible that she wants a poly relationship for herself?

She says that she has no interest in sex. Our counsellor believes that it is more psychological than physiological. Although, she has lost most of the sensitivity on both sides of her body, so the physiological issue is still there.

About 10 minutes after I read your message, I said "OhSnap's wife, are you doing all of this because you want a poly relationship for yourself?"

The answer was "no". Maybe her feelings and her words don't match, and if this is the case, than I'll just have to wait until she is ready to open up.

(i.e. some joint/muscle disorders can make cuddling painful, some nerve disorders can make gentle caresses feel like burns or scratches)

There are physiological factors involved. It doesn't hurt when I touch her. But she does suffer from occasional aches just from day-to-day activities. It can be a pretty amazing mood-killer when we are trying to get intimate.

I agree with LittleSara--my first thought was that your wife might be the one desiring a poly relationship. Maybe SHE has been harboring feelings for her friend? Maybe she's dreaming of a committed threesome relationship?

Regardless, the biggest benefit of polyamory that I can think of is that, if there were more than two people in a marriage, there would be more than one person sharing the burden of caring for the spouse who is ill.

Our friend actually visits us frequently enough that we may as well be in a threesome (that was a joke, I'm not good with jokes). She lives about 5 minutes away. Our children also make time to help. I agree with your POV anyway. If our friend moved in, things would be easier. My wife is largely independent however, and as I said before, she can be a bit stubborn.

Here's what I think. I think your wife is not able to be EMOTIONALLY intimate with you right now

That's largely the crux of the matter IMO. She's alone throughout most of the day. And I don't mean "alone" in the literal sense. While I'm at work, her mother, our daughter, and some of her housewife friends visit daily, and for hours at a time. I mean "alone" in the sense that she prefers her space. She likes to withdraw into her shell, so to speak.

So I guess that I'll just have to wait?
 
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