Trying to correct my colossal screw-up

wow...

You sound so positive that your solution is perfect for you and your going to be perfectly happy.... Your not thinking of the two other people involved in your relationship. What happens if they aren't ok with your happy picture? It sounds a bit self serving. You cheated and your happy and though it would be nice for you if it all worked out, it sounds like your forcing your wife to either like it or leave it...

Your wife might be talking to the other woman simply because she feels that she has no other choice but to be friends with her.
 
You didn't have the choice "taken away" from you. You chose to marry "your girl" instead of not marrying her. You had a choice, and you chose.

I bet your therapist(s) would say the same thing.

No. We agreed to use birth control. An accidental pregnancy would have been one thing. But we had an agreement. She violated that agreement by deliberately going off the pill in order to get pregnant, thus forcing marriage. Her family was two doors down the street from mine, since the 8th grade. She knew exactly what the outcome would be - otherwise, why would she deliberately risk pregnancy? In the small town I grew up in, in the social class we were in, there was no choice in that situation.


wow...

You sound so positive that your solution is perfect for you and your going to be perfectly happy.... Your not thinking of the two other people involved in your relationship. What happens if they aren't ok with your happy picture? It sounds a bit self serving. You cheated and your happy and though it would be nice for you if it all worked out, it sounds like your forcing your wife to either like it or leave it...

Well, maybe I haven't been able to completely document everything that has been happening. My wife is concerned about whether she is going to be replaced. I think somebody in this thread described it as 'grieving for the loss of the monogamous relationship', and that seems to describe her behavior perfectly. She keeps offering to step aside to make room for the new love, and I have to keep emphasizing to her that far from wanting to replace her, I want her more now than I have in a long time.

I took my wife for granted. I am not taking her for granted any more. I am working my butt off to show her that far from being replaced, she is going to receive more quality time from me from now on than she ever has before.

Your wife might be talking to the other woman simply because she feels that she has no other choice but to be friends with her.

No, she has stated that whether or not this works out, even if she ends up divorcing me, she will continue to be friends with U. She says she truly likes her, and I believe her. They've been talking on the phone for over an hour tonight. As I said before, I don't understand women. I just accept how they feel and go from there.
 
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No. We agreed to use birth control. An accidental pregnancy would have been one thing. But we had an agreement. She violated that agreement by deliberately going off the pill in order to get pregnant, thus force marriage. Her family was two doors down the street from mine, since the 8th grade. She knew exactly what the outcome would be - otherwise, why would she deliberately risk pregnancy? In the small town I grew up in, in the social class we were in, there was no choice.

Yes. You still made a choice. You could have chosen NOT to marry her, backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood or no backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood. Own your own decisions like a grown man, even if you thought you didn't know any better when you made them.

Besides, you could have carried your own condoms and used them. Just sayin'...
 
Yes. You still made a choice. You could have chosen NOT to marry her, backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood or no backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood. Own your own decisions like a grown man, even if you thought you didn't know any better when you made them.

Besides, you could have carried your own condoms and used them. Just sayin'...

You can kiss my backward primitive small-town Christian ass. My morals do not allow abandoning women and children, even if they did break their word to me. I've spent the last quarter century taking care of the result of my actions, with the outcome that said result calls me dad, hugs me daily, and will be graduating from college soon.
 
Therapy is in order. You have underlying or hidden resentment over the fact that you felt obligated to marry your then-pregnant girlfriend and now-wife. You feel like she basically trapped you into marriage and the only choice was to marry her. Would you have even married her if she had not been pregnant? Was marrying her even in your thoughts?

I find it interesting that you likely felt morally obligated to step up but breaking your vows and being faithful fell by the wayside. What changed in your moral code to allow that to go on for however long? Would you have ever told your wife? Why did you not seek counselling if trust was already questionable?

I do not blame your wife for crying at times. Do not be surprised if she flips on you and tells you to end the relationship. You made a mistake, but what are the consequences? You get to keep both women? Hell of a consequence for hurting someone that you love. I would urge you to find a marriage counsellor and if possible, someone that is poly friendly. Did you offer to step away from your relationship to heal your marriage? The other woman should understand that. When the core relationship is rocky and on unstable ground, that is the start of many problems. Something so minor and trivial will explode into something unfathomable. Believe me.

I am not trying to discourage you from poly, but the timing not immaculate. How long have you been having the affair? Too much is happening. This is new to all of you but time to grieve is needed. Time to adjust is necessary, too. She has to get used to the idea of you sharing your life with someone else. She has to get used to sleeping alone if you stay at her place. She has to get used to you sharing important moments with her and the other person. Major changes.

Poly after an affair is not impossible. It takes more work than the norm. Every step of the way, you are going to have to be mindful of your wife. Can you do it without a therapist? I would not advise that at all. Do not think poly is the answer to all your prayers. You might be in for a rude awakening. Read some of the threads in the relationships section to get an idea of some of the issues fellow polyamourists face every day. Be realistic and remember the two other people. Take your wife's cordiality towards her new metamour with a grain of salt. That is not to say that they will not be friends, but the fact still remains that she was sleeping with her husband behind her back and is half of the reason why she is hurting, shedding tears, and fears being replaced.
 
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I've spent the last quarter century taking care of the result of my actions, with the outcome that said result calls me dad, hugs me daily, and will be graduating from college soon.
And yet you claim not to have chosen to do so. Just because one choice sucks more than the other doesn't mean it was never there to be chosen.
 
There is always choice. You face some now.

While I am glad that you are not angry at how your life turned out, I am disturbed by your attitude and resentment toward wife. Dragging things up from the past is not helpful. Even if you still need to lay them to rest appropriately? It's mixing apples and oranges.

Rather than dump that at her -- because she's now the mother of your child AND the woman you want to forgive an affair and enter into polyship -- you could secure another counselor to sort that out on your own if your current one is not helping. Guard against using that as a "guilt trip card" to get what you want with the polyship thing.

A divorce might serve you if you still feel that deep of resentment and like your life "got postponed" or something. Even if you are not angry about how that life turned out. While it entails short term break up feelings that affects your short term health (ex: stress), it could lead to long term health improvements for all.

Could help you let go of resentment, maybe freedom from cheating affair for all, and for wife? Maybe puts you all on equal footing if she is financially dependent and just going along with it because of that. Puts you and U on equal psychological footing because then wife can't hold "do x or divorce!" over your heads. Not saying any of you would use unfair cards, but making them non-issues is something to think about.

Could think the "divorce option" all the way through and list pros/cons. A serious evaluation with your wife... AND U. She doesn't have any say in the marriage staying together or not, but she could have feelings/fears to air about about the state of the marital union and it's impact on the potential polyship.

If your wife is going through the stages of grief, could read on that. And examine polyhell article together. Maybe secure a separate grief counselor for her?

This one describe one way to open a formerly monogamous relationship. Maybe it could help when you are ready to move on that.

But I don't suggest rushing into polyship here -- imagine together what that might be, sure. But the FIRST main focus could be healing all these old hurts (resentment) and new hurts (affair) and as yet unknown hurts (does U have any?) so that all players are healthy and WELL before entering into a new thing. It could be a time for Radical Honesty now.

Polyshipping is intense and can result in magnifying ALL previous cracks. Could not Open when Broken. Could get solid first in preparation.

Could also talk about the plan for what happens if after all this consideration and preparation it is still just not a runner. Neither of these women is obligated to go along with it. So back at that square -- do the breaking up talks. Whether it is break up with U, the wife, or both.

Do the W's and H' as deep as possible to assess you, wife and U's fitness for this.

  • WHO is polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHAT is the plan? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHEN are we polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHERE are we polyshipping?How does this affect polyship success?
  • HOW are we going to polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHY are we polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?

Or go through the whole pre-marriage lists/courses an change "marriage" to "3 person polyship" and assess your collective fitness for this that way.

You already had a sloppy start to polyshipping potential with the cheating affair. Not at the actual polyshipping yet. But could guard against more sloppy beginnings and sloppy endings.

You have opportunity to make NEW choices here. Choose well.

Galagirl
 
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I also went and talked to a therapist today about the situation. I liked her very much. After I had described how these women make me feel, before I even asked a question about it, she recommended finding a polyamory support group. She also offered to counsel us as a group, although I think that might be a little premature. But she was very supportive.

You are absolutely correct. If you go back to my original post, you'll notice I mentioned seeing a therapist...

If I were you, I would look into counselling like now.

My wife has emailed the therapist I talked to the other day about scheduling a session. After each of us has a few individual sessions, I expect this will turn into relationship counseling. Probably will include U at some point as well. I like my therapist. A lot.

Therapy is in order... Why did you not seek counselling if trust was already questionable?

...Can you do it without a therapist? I would not advise that at all.

FoL, he has said repeatedly he's seeing a therapist! Why give advice without reading his posts?
 
Stonebreaker, welcome to the world of poly, and this board.

Texas Christians coming at poly, with a history of deception (getting pg on purpose to keep her man, then her man cheating on her 25 years later to get back at her-- talk about a long-standing grudge!).

Yes, many Christians interpret their Bibles to say polygyny (one man, multiple women) is AOK with God and Jesus. (Polyandry [one woman, multiple men], not so much... sigh...)

Your wife was a virgin when you and she first hooked up, and has only had you ever since? You only ever had the one child together? Was that part of your punishment for her tricking you into a shotgun marriage in the first place?

So now she's still desperate to hold onto her man. This time her ploy is getting all up close and personal with your mistress...

How will this plural marriage fly in your Texas town? If abortion and dumping a woman who deceitfully got pregnant to force marriage was a no-no, will your churches accept you living with your wife, dating another with the goal of moving her in as a second wife? Or do you not care about the opinions of your religio-social group as much now as you did 25 years ago?
 
Stonebreaker...

Cheating...not cool! Regardless of what happened in the past about the "how" or "why" you got married, your wife of 25 years was (and still is) hurt by your deception...that's not cool at all dude! Now, off of my soapbox.

Fast forward to today...from what I have read, it seems that your wife is still worried about being replaced so she is offering to 'step aside' to make you happy. I applaude your efforts to reassure her that the replacement will not happen and you don't want a divorce. However, she still feels this way after all of your reassuring efforts.

My suggestions are simple...please don't take this as me knowing the right way to handle this situation because I never been in your 'shoes' so to speak...

1) Ask your wife to join this site (or one like it). This will give her an outlet to discuss these issues with like-minded people about how she is feeling. It will also point her (as it did you) to posts or articles that may help her with dealing with your situation.

Also, this site (as well as others) will let your wife know about NRE...basically (as I understand it), it when your primary feels (or actually is) neglected because you are concentrating on building your new relationship(s).

2) Althought you have been reassuring, have you ever thought about slowing down with U until your wife is 'ready' to fully accept this? Again, just my opinion, but I would (for the sake of my marriage) ask U to understand why we have to slow down. This may SHOW your wife that you are serious about not wanting to lose her and SHOW her how committed you are to saving your marriage.

I think that this would go far with your wife...knowing that you are willing to take it slow for her feelings would let her know that you really do want your marriage to work...my Mother always say, "Actions speak louder than words!"

3) When (if) this works out like you want...take BoringGuy's advise he gave in his first response..."drink lots of water!" and take vitamins...your not young anymore. Also, make sure your wife don't feel 'left out' in that department...now that DID happen to me!

Last thing, someone (can't remember who) asked you a question and you didn't give a response....

What happens when (if) your wife or U wants another man in their life...are you prepared for (or have you even considered) that situation?

The reason I ask (again) is that both your wife and U are straight and have no desire to be with another woman, so what happens when either (or both) of them want another man?

I'm just giving you food for thought...situations that I preceive (or have been in) for you to consider.

Good luck!
 
FoL, he has said repeatedly he's seeing a therapist! Why give advice without reading his posts?

He said HE is seeing a therapist. Not the two of them. That is what I was talking about. Marital counselling. Not individual therapy. I read that. Maybe I missed something that he said after the initial remark about him liking the therapist. If so, I stand corrected.
 
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Stonebreaker, welcome to the world of poly, and this board.

Texas Christians coming at poly, with a history of deception (getting pg on purpose to keep her man, then her man cheating on her 25 years later to get back at her-- talk about a long-standing grudge!).

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm doing this to get back at her. I'm not. We've had a good life together and I'm undeniably better off with her than I would have been without her. It has nothing to do with payback. If I was going to pay her back for it, now that the kids are grown I would just divorce her. But we have a good thing that I do not want to lose.

Anyway, this centers on choice. I had a central life choice taken away from me by what I consider to be an unfair method. All I want is the opportunity to make that choice for myself. Doing that would fix things in my mind.

Yet the reality is that I already have a wife I love very much. It's ironic that the only way to resolve my dilemma in this society is to commit a greater wrong against my wife - I can either divorce her or cheat on her. I don't want to get divorced, but I needed to make this choice, so I resolved the issue by cheating. I wish I had thought outside the box before I hurt her, because I had no wish to do so. I wish there was some way I could have done this without hurting her at all.

So, by a process of elimination, I zeroed in on polyamory. Whether you agree with me or not, this seems like the most ethical solution to my problem. I still need to talk to my therapist to see if we can figure out why having the power to make this choice is important enough to me to risk wrecking my marriage. I don't know why it matters so much, but it does.

Yes, many Christians interpret their Bibles to say polygyny (one man, multiple women) is AOK with God and Jesus. (Polyandry [one woman, multiple men], not so much... sigh...)

Whether it's AOK or not is open to debate... but, there's nothing in the New Testament that specifically prohibits it. But that's a debate for another thread...

Your wife was a virgin when you and she first hooked up, and has only had you ever since? You only ever had the one child together? Was that part of your punishment for her tricking you into a shotgun marriage in the first place?

Nope, we have two kids. Wish I could have afforded more when we were younger, but I had to drop out of college and take care of the family. We're upper middle class now, I have the midlife crisis car and everything, but we'd rather wait on the grandkids.

So now she's still desperate to hold onto her man. This time her ploy is getting all up close and personal with your mistress...
No. I thought that was the idea at first too. But in one of the most truly Christian acts I've ever witnessed, she has embraced U as a potential friend. Jesus said "Love thine enemy" and I believe my wife is truly sincere in her actions. It's absolutely amazing. She says there is no point in being angry. I don't understand it, I just accept it.

How will this plural marriage fly in your Texas town? If abortion and dumping a woman who deceitfully got pregnant to force marriage was a no-no, will your churches accept you living with your wife, dating another with the goal of moving her in as a second wife? Or do you not care about the opinions of your religio-social group as much now as you did 25 years ago?

The second. I never toed the line as far as small town society's expectations - for example, I'm white, my wife is not - but my moral code WAS shaped largely by my environment: my parents, my church, and that small town, in that order. My dad was fired from his job in U's town partly because my folks were the only white family in town who let the black kids come over and play with their kids. In my family, it has ALWAYS been about doing what's right, more than what society expected of us.

This poly thing just feels like the right solution to this problem.
 
Stonebreaker...

Cheating...not cool! Regardless of what happened in the past about the "how" or "why" you got married, your wife of 25 years was (and still is) hurt by your deception...that's not cool at all dude! Now, off of my soapbox.

Fast forward to today...from what I have read, it seems that your wife is still worried about being replaced so she is offering to 'step aside' to make you happy. I applaude your efforts to reassure her that the replacement will not happen and you don't want a divorce. However, she still feels this way after all of your reassuring efforts.

My suggestions are simple...please don't take this as me knowing the right way to handle this situation because I never been in your 'shoes' so to speak...

1) Ask your wife to join this site (or one like it). This will give her an outlet to discuss these issues with like-minded people about how she is feeling. It will also point her (as it did you) to posts or articles that may help her with dealing with your situation.

Also, this site (as well as others) will let your wife know about NRE...basically (as I understand it), it when your primary feels (or actually is) neglected because you are concentrating on building your new relationship(s).

2) Althought you have been reassuring, have you ever thought about slowing down with U until your wife is 'ready' to fully accept this? Again, just my opinion, but I would (for the sake of my marriage) ask U to understand why we have to slow down. This may SHOW your wife that you are serious about not wanting to lose her and SHOW her how committed you are to saving your marriage.

I think that this would go far with your wife...knowing that you are willing to take it slow for her feelings would let her know that you really do want your marriage to work...my Mother always say, "Actions speak louder than words!"

3) When (if) this works out like you want...take BoringGuy's advise he gave in his first response..."drink lots of water!" and take vitamins...your not young anymore. Also, make sure your wife don't feel 'left out' in that department...now that DID happen to me!

Last thing, someone (can't remember who) asked you a question and you didn't give a response....

What happens when (if) your wife or U wants another man in their life...are you prepared for (or have you even considered) that situation?

The reason I ask (again) is that both your wife and U are straight and have no desire to be with another woman, so what happens when either (or both) of them want another man?

I'm just giving you food for thought...situations that I preceive (or have been in) for you to consider.

Good luck!
newguy,

Thanks for those thoughts. Yes, we have discussed most of those options. I'll just answer them below rather that cutting and pasting into your quote:

1) I have already given her links to articles. I haven't given her a link to this forum, because I'm a little nervous that she may misinterpret some of my posts. Some of what I'm doing here is practicing for our own discussions, because one thing I am finding with her is that she is hyper analyzing every word I say; and if she can find a way to feel hurt and offer to leave again, she will. If I don't say "I still love you and want you as much as I always have" with enough conviction and emphasis, then she interprets that as I'm just saying that and maybe she should go. So when you guys misinterpret what I'm trying to communicate, then I know I need to rephrase before I talk to her.

2) Yes. My wife has requested that U and I refrain from anything physical until she has had a chance to talk to the therapist and is comfortable with it. This seems perfectly reasonable to both U and I. I hope to make this a long-term thing. Holding off a couple of months to insure long term happiness is not a problem.

3) On the physical side, at least for now, I'm discovering that being with one energizes me for being with the other one. This was something I did not anticipate. But my wife actually asked me if this was why I have been so attentive to her lately... and the answer is, yes, yes it is.

As for the other guy... I have already been asked about that one too, on a purely hypothetical basis. I admitted that right now, even though I would have no moral ground to object, I don't think I could handle that. I couldn't stand the thought of her with another guy. Weirdly enough, this was apparently the right answer. I think maybe she was interpreting my jealousy (correctly) as desire for her to remain. So I'm glad I gave the honest answer instead of the fair one.
 
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You can kiss my backward primitive small-town Christian ass. My morals do not allow abandoning women and children, even if they did break their word to me. I've spent the last quarter century taking care of the result of my actions, with the outcome that said result calls me dad, hugs me daily, and will be graduating from college soon.


Exactly. YOU made the choice. Not your wife, your wife's family, god, or your backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood. Don't say the choice was "taken away" from you. You were faced with making a choice. You made it.

Haven't you read that you can control your own actions and decisions but not those of other people?

By the way, i think telling me to kiss your ass is against the rules here. I can handle it, but other people might not appreciate it. Or maybe they do.

Anyway, the purpose of my pointing this out is because that seems to be the root of why you are so comfortable with this newfound polyamorous vee and why your wife seems so ready willing and able to go along with it.
 
As for the other guy... I have already been asked about that one too, on a purely hypothetical basis. I admitted that right now, even though I would have no moral ground to object, I don't think I could handle that. I couldn't stand the thought of her with another guy. Weirdly enough, this was apparently the right answer. I think maybe she was interpreting my jealousy (correctly) as desire for her to remain. So I'm glad I gave the honest answer instead of the fair one.

What worked for me (Mono in a Mono/Poly relationship) was knowing that the option is open to me (in an effort to be "fair"), but having my partner understand that, given the way I love, if I were to start dating around, it would mean that our relationship would be in "casual" mode, and could quite possibly be replaced with something "serious". My partner would not be happy with that, but understands that with the option comes the consequence.

I personally don't plan on ever taking up this option (although there is a saying at work that "a plan is something to deviate from"), but knowing that he's thought this through and understands my Mono-ness versus his Poly-ness in this situation is a good thing.

His offering up the fact that I could date, though, was initially met with distaste on my part - that this relationship was, somehow, more of a casual one than I'd been led to believe. I'd caution anyone offering this to a Mono partner (especially one in an established, previously-Mono relationship) to beware that the offer may be taken as a "demotion" of the relationship rather than as an effort to be fair.

I would still caution you that the friendship between your wife and U may wax and wane as the emotions fluctuate. They may be great "friend material" but there are some pretty significant emotions floating around right now, and resentment is a sneaky little bugger. You will want to keep up the lines of communication with your wife and U and make sure they aren't falling prey to the "should monster" (which tends to be my big nemesis): "I should/shouldn't feel this way."

Instead, emotions just ARE. And when they ARE, they need to be addressed, or resentment can form. If you fall prey to, "I shouldn't feel this way," it can lead to burying your emotions instead. When it gets to that point, resentment is a much uglier beast to address.

Good luck...
 
YAH,

Thank you for alerting me to the "should monster". That seems like a very easy trap to fall into.

On the subject of additional dating, what I said to my wife was, if she wants to date, I wouldn't stop her because that wouldn't be fair. But I couldn't stand it. All I'd ask is to let me know she is going to date, then don't tell me anything else. I'd just be too jealous. And she smiled and hugged me.
 
OK, went to the therapist again today. My wife came for the first time. The therapist got my wife to open up and talk about how she felt about the relationship changing from monogamous to polyamorous. The therapist was great - she was able to bring out a lot of the hurt and insecurity that my wife is still feeling, which didn't feel too good to me (I was there as well) but I recognize that this is part of the healing process, so I kept my mouth shut and let her vent.

I think the therapist is kind of fascinated by this situation. She offered, again, to counsel all three of us in order to help form a successful union. Did I say how much I like my therapist? Anyway, when my wife was expressing how hurt she felt for about the fourth time (justifiably, IMHO), and how could she ever trust me again, the therapist asked her how my wife thought I felt after she betrayed me by trapping me into marriage with the pregnancy. And she used that word, too - "betrayed". I found that kind of funny, because "betrayed" just sounds like it should be used in soap operas and Lifetime movies, not real life :p . Anyway, she got my wife to think about that.

I also thought of a better analogy of how I feel about my wife's deliberately getting pregnant. I compare it to a road trip. We are starting out, with no particular destination in mind. She says, "let's go that way." So we go that way. We have adventures, good times, trouble, everything you're going to have on a road trip. We finally arrived at our destination. It's fun. I like it. I want to keep traveling with her. But now I want to pick the next destination.
 
Destination

Sure... That makes sense; but you also want to add another traveling companion. You might need a bigger vehicle or however you want to put it.
 
I can understand why some people here assume that your wife is only willing to contemplate a poly relationship because she is desperate to hang on to the marriage but I don't think that is necessarily the case. Having been in a similar position I know that it wasn't like that for me, in many ways giving up on the marriage would have been an easier option and it would certainly have been a less lonely experience. Friends and family would comfort and support a wife facing divorce because she had been cheated on, but deciding to accept the other woman and try work things out is lonely and it takes a lot of inner strength because it is unlikely to be something that she can discuss with her friends and family. She will need to talk and to go over the same things many times and you will need to be patient with her and answer her questions as many times as necessary. Don't assume she is trying to catch you out, it is much more likely that she is just trying to process things in her head. Don't be afraid of her tears, if she is asking questions she needs honest answers, it is better to deal with the truth however painful.

Don't assume that you will be able to anticipate the issues that the your wife will struggle with. For me the lies and the loss of trust were a much bigger deal than the sex once I had got over the initial shock. I was angry that he had robbed me of control of my own sexual health to meet his own needs/wants and it took me a long time to deal with that. The lies also made me doubt other things and question if I could trust anyone, it really knocked my confidence.

Just accepting that your husband has another partner is very confusing but after the initial adjustment the hardest thing for me has been the secrecy. I am happy with our situation and I would like to be more open but for various reasons that is not really an option. I hate having to be cautious about what I say to other people and even worse I hate people feeling sorry for me (a few of the people who know have reacted like that).

My relationship with C (the other woman) is very good, but it has still led to a lot of confusion for me. As our relationship grew stronger and the 'husband with another woman' gradually developed into a more genuine poly arrangement I had a bit of an identity crisis. I didn't expect C to become so important to me, and I had a nagging question in my head 'am I still straight'. I have eventually decided that the answer is probably yes, but it doesn't really matter because I am me and I don't need a label.

It is good that the three of you have been talking, but keep in mind that what your wife and U say they want now may change significantly over time, that was certainly true in our case. How will you feel if the dynamics of the relationship change? I think my husband has struggled a bit because he didn't expect such a strong bond to develop between me and C. I think it was also a bit of a shock that it wasn't 'all about him' any more.

I hope you can find a way forward that works for all of you, take things slowly and don't expect too much too.
 
Thanks, Kernow. Yes, I am seeing a lot of what you have felt in your own relationship.Although they are only in the beginning stages of getting to know each other, my wife and U are texting and talking so much that I actually felt a little neglected the other day. I had to laugh at myself for that.

While the emotional ride so far has been intense, I am starting to see what I hope is a permanent change in my wife's and my relationship - she is starting to talk things out a little more rather than just not saying anything until all the little things build up and she blows her top. This is something I have put up with for 25 years, and if nothing else comes out of this, this one thing will be worth it.

As far as the two women go, they have both asked me in one way or another which of them I like more. I came up with a good illustration the other day - one is like chile peppers, the other is like ice cream. I like them both, but there's really no way to compare them...
 
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