Looking for guidance. having some issues in an open relationship (newbie)

berlinthomas

New member
Greetings,

Disclaimer: This is a LOOOONG post. I don’t mean to be annoying but typing this was very theraputic.

I’m here looking for a little bit of guidance and mentorship from experience poly ppl. Might help to know that I have a history of depression/anxiety

Please feel free to pm or email me!

----

About my partner and myself:

I’m a 30 y/o cis straight male living on the east coast who has only ever been in monogamous relationships or slept around a little bit while single. I’m also a touring musician and constantly traveling.

My partner is a 22 y/o queer female from the midwest who has far more experience being poly than myself.

We met in September, started texting. We fell in love pretty quick and we honestly didn’t expect it to happen. I consider her “the one” and I am in the process of planning to move to go live with her.

I have always wanted to be in an open relationship but never thought that I would find the right partner for it. I’ve always felt like I (and humanity in general) was better suited to have multiple partners. Particularly having one primary/committed partner while also having secondary partners that I would see on a more casual basis. I also was worried about how I would react emotionally to the thought of my partner having sex with someone else. I’ve dealt with tons of insecurity around everything from not feeling good enough to love, feeling sexually inadequate, my dick not being big enough, feeling weak/vulnerable, feeling fat and unattractive etc. I’ve always overcompensated sexually

(To give myself credit I am constantly growing and evolving. For instance I used to freak out when partners would tell me about past sexual encounters, now I actually enjoy talking about that stuff very much, its kind of a turn on)

So the topic of opening our relationship kept coming up, I knew well before we committed to each other that she was a poly person and there was gonna be no changing that. So I told her I would be comfortable with it if we went in baby steps. For instance I have zero problems with her being with female partners.

One smart thing I think she did was she allowed me to test the waters with the opposite sex first. While I was in Europe I ended up hooking up with a handful of girls out there

So I tell her that I’m now in a place where I’m comfortable with her pursuing male partners. I was a little reluctant but considering that we were long distance and I was touring heavily, I felt it unfair to deprive her sexually, especially since I had been given the freedom to experiment. (Little did I know I would pretty much be in a 3 month dry spell after Europe).

Now our agreement is that we have an open relationship with casual partners (obviously connection/friendship is okay) that aren’t suppose to be second boyfriends or girlfriends. Mostly just for fun and sex. And that if we feel uncomfortable at any moment we can pull the plug. For instance theres one girl that likes me very much but makes my partner feel insecure, I don’t question it, I don’t even consider her an option so I leave her alone.

I set some guidelines, she hooks up with the first guy and I honestly felt fine about it. We talked a little bit about the details and it was kind of hot.

She hooks up with the second guy THIS IS WHERE THINGS GO SOUTH. The first couple times its fine, we talk about the details a little bit. She admits that he made her squirt which is something that she’s never done before (she claims with US when she gets close to that point, its very intense sos he usually asks me to stop, but that now she’s comfortable she wants todo that with me from now on). Didn’t bother me…. At first


About a week after we last saw each other, she starts dropping hints about having a “crush” on this second guy. I wasn’t sure what she meant by that. Through social media I actually figured out who he was. Which was fine, he’s a DJ, seemed relatively non threatening. until last week her and her roommate went out and I was watching their Instagram storyline updates. Her roommate was taking videos of them and while they weren’t all over each other, I could clearly see the chemistry between them. It really hurt my feelings a lot, like a lot more than I expected.

We end up getting into a discussion about it and this is when things got bad. We don’t yell or fight with each other. But I told her that I was feeling very insecure and not okay with the fact that she is turning this guy into like a second boyfriend. She starts crying and feeling guilty for hurting me, saying things like “I never should have forced you to do this” Its basically a mess now. We are non confrontational people so we basically shut down when faced with a hard conversation or difficult emotions. She says that she really didn’t expect to develop feelings for this guy and that he’s “very sensitive and respectful “ to our situation and “is very experienced being poly.” But I said that I still feel like this is way too fucking fast, and this is not what I agreed to. We kind of came to a stale mate.

A few days later, her and her roommate are hanging out with him again and this time the Instagram update has a video of them two holding hands, knowing full well that I was seeing all these updates. I check this dudes Instagram and he’s posting all this cocky shit. “Ordering so may condoms online! Think I’ll make a lent calendar with condoms this month!”

And here’s the kicker, he posts a fucking screen shot of a text conversation with my partner (with her name/number cropped out) that says this

“Lol, you told ____ that my dick was magic?”

“Haha yes! You bet I did, after the first time I was like girrrrrrlllll this man had me squirting like a porn star wowwww”


It really hurt to read that... like a lot, and for many reasons. like how is that “respecting” my relationship in anyway? what the fuck?

I confront her about it in a very calm way and she basically said she confronted him about it as soon as he posted it and he said “oh well I know he (me) knows my twitter and would see it so thats why I posted it on Instagram, I just thought it was funny I’m seriously not trying to hurt anyone”. basically he thought I wasn't going to see it because his username on Instagram is different, but I still found him.

I’m kind of pissed that she didn’t demand that he take it down. I know she’s not confrontational or whatever but still. This is majorly fucked up. It also hurts me to know that she has conversations like that about him.... I dread to know what else they talk about. The post is still up by the way and I know that they’ve hung out since which means she didn’t bring it up that I had seen it. Which I’m not sure is a good or a bad thing at this point.


Wow this was long. My main point is. I’m feeling a lot of negative thins. I feel guilty for reacting so poorly. I feel like I’m being a bad guy or patriarchal and controlling for feeling this way. I’m beating myself up because honestly I thought I was more of an evolved person than this. I’d love to be in a fully open relationship and we were going at a good pace but we went to expert level when I don’t even fully know how to play the game yet.

Things are weird with us now, theres a distance and I can’t tell if its because we are fighting or if its because this guy is replacing me. Thats basically how I feel, I feel like this guy swooped in when he knew I was not there to do anything about it and is now replacing me. I see the interactions between her and her best friend on twitter and it reminds me of how the 3 of us used to interact when I first started dating her and it fucking kills me. I also feel like the more I express myself, the more she gravitates towards him. We can’t even have makeup sex at the moment :(

I feel like I’m being muscled out and if I try to VETO this, she’s going to be devastated. This is at a time where I’m back in my shitty home town completely alone, emotionally drained, no friends, no one to really talk to. Basically I was just going to work my ass off for the next month, save up some money and move in with her and start a new life.

I WANT to be in a poly relationship, but I know emotionally I have so much more to grow, but I feel like shit is moving way too fast than I’m comfortable with. I have a hard time deciphering what this dudes intentions are with my partner. Whether this is normal for being poly. They are hanging out a couple times a week, sometimes not even for sex. And I’m stuck here. I’m also not getting laid at all, I really have zero prospects for outside partners right now.

So to wrap this novel of a story up, here are my questions:

Is this normal for poly? Does it seem like this is an example of her having a secondary parter or does this guy seem like he’s trying to muscle me out?

Does it get better? Has anyone else dealt with jealousy/insecurity and worked through it? Whats it like on the other side?

Should I do an emergency visit to come see her? Do you think using phsycially being together will help alleviate the situation?

any input is appreciated, thanks so much for taking the time
 
I WANT to be in a poly relationship...
You know that "polyamory" means "many loves" rather than "many casual sex partners", right? That means your poly GF developing boyfriend/girlfriend relationships with other poly people is usually the aim.

I'm a little surprised that someone with "far more experience being poly" was willing to sign up to a "no feelings allowed" agreement, even if it was only supposed to be a temporary transition period.
 
I'm sorry you struggle. I hope you feel better for airing out.

I think it's no different than mono dating. Not everyone you date will be compatible or a long haul runner. You might be bumping into that here.

Let me repeat back what I understand. You correct me if I'm wrong ok? I quote just to visually block it off. The main points are...

  • Your partner makes Open agreements for (casual sex, no BF/GF people) with you. You are disappointed she not keep her Word because she's trying to turn Dude into a BF.
  • Dude isn't nice. He's publishing private texts online "for a joke" without her consent. It's not funny. And it is not respectful. He doesn't apologize, does not take it down, does not make amends, does not promise not to do that again. Yet she keeps dating him.
    • You are disappointed in how she's letting that bad behavior slide. Maybe it's harder to admire her/respect her now because of that.
  • Your partner wants to change to a Poly model now. You need time to digest that because you did not sign up for that originally.
  • She's not waiting for your answer. She's moved on to dating Dude anyway. You feel rushed/pressed/railroaded to get on board with the program. It feels "too fast."

Conclusion: You might be up for poly... but not with this guy in the network. And not at this speed or in this manner.

Agreements: You shared agreeements state that if either of you is not comfortable, you veto. You are not comfortable.

Action: So veto and let the chips fall where they may.

I get things are hard to feel, but the actions seem straightforward according to your agreements. Follow through. Or you could skip the veto and go straight to breaking up because you decided this is too fucked up and it's gone to deal breaker territory for you. Has it?

I feel guilty for reacting so poorly. I feel like I’m being a bad guy or patriarchal and controlling for feeling this way.

I think you feel bad because you are busy being your own self bully. Calling yourself names like "bad guy" and "controlling" and "patriarchal" when you basically just have a situation where you had agreements with her. And she did not keep them. It was casual sex, and now she's turning him into a BF. And he's not even a nice BF who respects her.

And you are disappointed by all that. It stinks, but you could deal with it without the self bullying. Don't ADD to your load. Seek to TAKE AWAY from your load.

Like stop peeking at social media if that just stresses you out. It doesn't change anything. You still have to decide if you want to continue to be with her in a new model when she picks to be with someone like that.

Do you want to sign up for this new thing or not? That's the question. Your consent and willingness to participate belongs to you. If conditions have changed and made this situation not fun for you? You don't have to stay in this situation. You don't have to keep riding this ride. You can get off the Bus.

I’m beating myself up because honestly I thought I was more of an evolved person than this.

This isn't about being "move evolved." This is about what behavior you are ok with in your dating relationships/dating network and what behavior you are not.

Right now? You are deeply disappointed. You see where it is fucked up that she lets his poor behavior slide.

I wonder if maybe you are thinking about letting HER poor behavior slide. I wonder if you are disappointed with yourself on that. Is that what you mean? You thought you were better than letting bad behavior slide?

I’d love to be in a fully open relationship and we were going at a good pace but we went to expert level when I don’t even fully know how to play the game yet.

To me it sounds like you do know how to play the game.

You know when agreements are being kept and when they are not.

You know what feels respectful to you and what does not.

You know what is fucked up to you and what is not.

What you lack is follow through and holding yourself and other people accountable. Because you are conflict avoidant.

But you seem to know that. So... could work on your conflict resolution skills. Some things in life just feel yucky. They still need to be sorted out. So get on with it and sort it out anyway.

I feel like I’m being muscled out and if I try to VETO this, she’s going to be devastated. This is at a time where I’m back in my shitty home town completely alone, emotionally drained, no friends, no one to really talk to. Basically I was just going to work my ass off for the next month, save up some money and move in with her and start a new life.

Maybe you are willing to give a second chance if she dumps the guy and sorts out new agreements she CAN keep. Or maybe just let this woman go because it's just too much work/shenanigans and you don't want to be doing that any more. Up to you.

Either way? Work your ass off and save your money in the coming month. You have to make a living. That doesn't change either way.

If you decide on a second chance and try to work out a new model with her and continue with the plan to move to her town? I suggest you plan live in your own space for at least a year first. NOT live together.

Maybe it was a poor fitting LDR model you guys were trying to do. And a new model that is local fits better. Or maybe you learn that regardless of model, she still plays wonky. So you don't want to play with her any more. And you choose to poly date other people instead. But if you end up breaking up at that later point in time? At least then you are not (breaking up) AND (homeless and having to find a new flat.) You aren't having to do double load.

Again... Only you can figure out where your willingness to participate lies. Only you can decide what you are and are not up for.

I suggest you figure it out, then tell her what that is, and let the chips fall where they may. What you want and what she wants will either line up as compatible or not. But dancing around it being conflict avoidant doesn't move anything forward. It just keeps it in the stuck. Put all cards on table and sort what needs sorting.

Galagirl
 
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You sound like a thoughtful, sincere person. Don't beat yourself up for not being "evolved" enough yet. It's great that you are trying to examine and reject any patriarchal/controlling impulses. It sounds like your head is in the right place.

In your shoes, I would stop with the social media! Don't follow your girlfriend's Instragram. (I would never want to see a photo play-by-play of my partner's dates! Ew!) Don't play internet detective to uncover all the other dude's social media accounts. Unfollow and hide him on all platforms.

No, I don't think he's trying to "muscle you out." He's just a dude who likes to brag about his dick on the internet. And your girlfriend, being 22, still thinks that sort of thing is fun! That's okay, she's 22 :)

I do think, however, that her being 22 is going to be more of an issue than the poly stuff. That seems an awfully young age to have a 30-year-old boyfriend who thinks she is "the one" and is moving across the country to live with her. Does she live in a place that you would want to still live in if the relationship did not work out?

So, about the poly stuff. Practicing polyamory usually means having more than one boyfriend/girlfriend, having multiple "serious" relationships, multiple relationships with feelings (not just casual sex with others). You say that you really want to be poly. Do you envision getting to a point where your girlfriend can have another boyfriend? It's fine to enter into poly slowly, with a lot of boundaries about not jumping into another serious relationship too quickly; but I can't tell from your post if you are imagining a poly future or if you just want to have an open relationship (with other casual sex partners but no other romantic partners).

Your girlfriend says she's poly, so that means she has the ability to fall in love with more than one person. Is that what you expect to happen someday?

Also, a lot of poly people choose to be poly because they reject the idea of "the one." It strikes me that you used that phrase in your post. I am wondering, what does "the one" mean to you in the context of polyamory? What does your girlfriend believe about the idea of finding "the one" to love?
 
Hi there,

Sounds like you're going through a rough time. I don't think anything in what you're feeling is wrong. Kindda normal. But a lot of it also sounds self-inflicted, if you know what I mean.

Kevin has some links to jealousy that you might find useful. I'd also stop the social media.

Best wishes,
Shaya.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. before I respond individually I'll clear up some concerns. I'll also give you some updates on the situation too. Had a really nice constructive non judgmental conversation with my partner.

(When I typed my above post yesterday it was very stream of consciousness driven)

Poly VS Open relationship; My stance on this is I'm currently okay with having an open relationship... IN THE FUTURE I want to explore being poly. I'd like to have a wife that I have a family with but we are free to have secondary relationships outside the household. I just don't think I'm ready for that kind of thing presently, especially since I've been mentally preparing myself for my partner to have sex with other people for the past few months. Perhaps If I had been mentally preparing for her to be emotionally involved with someone else I wouldn't have freaked out so bad.

On a positive note I'm really happy with how I've reacted to her being sexually involved with other men, its very interesting and I'm able to ask questions from a place of curiosity rather than a place of jealousy. I'm finally able to swim on the deep end of the pool and its very liberating. Sometimes it can be kind of a turn on too! And anyone who's known me for long enough will realize thats a stark contrast from how I used to be.

My point is if one were to examine my progression in this area, I'm slowly moving towards poly anyways. Its just that reconditioning does not happen over night. I've reconditioned myself in so many ways over the years and I kind of look at it as a life long maintenance rather than reaching an arbitrary moral milestone. Sometimes my mind needs a break, or I need to focus on just the day-to-day happenings of life.


SOCIAL MEDIA!

Yes I'm a touring musician and pretty much social media is our life blood. what I decided to do was commit to not checking that guys Instagram anymore and I muted his twitter (basically so his posts don't show up in my feed through responses from my partner or her friends). but I didn't BLOCK him because I feel like that would just come off as very passive-agressive.


Update with my partner:

So we talked and she cleared up a lot of assumptions I was having about her partner. Basically she's assuring me that this guy is really not out to hurt anyone and he is a music type too, and his whole web-presence is him basically just acting like a party animal even though thats not how he really is. The reason why that post was still up was because she didn't bring it up with him, aka he doesn't know that I've seen it. which honestly is probably for the best.

She said she just wanted to be upfront with me about developing feelings for this guy, but I reacted very negatively towards that information, which caused her to feel extremely guilty and she didn't want to keep volunteering information because she thought it would hurt me. We both pretty much shut-down when faced with confrontation (something we both need to work on). So you have two partners that aren't communicating properly with each other for several days, add in stress, add in depression, add in feeling "distant" the mind wanders and makes up stories.

She said what they have going on is light hearted and not very deep, but it is still technically outside the realm of our expectations for what a casual partner is. Long story short, they like to be around each other when not having sex. I Still think that Instagram post of his was inappropriate but I see it as counter productive to push the issue now.

I hope that clears up a few things. Now if you'll excuse me, it's been a very long day and can barely keep my eyes open. I'd love to keep the dialogue going. I will try to make time to respond individually to you all tomorrow.


Thanks!
 
I'm glad you are doing a bit better.

The reason why that post was still up was because she didn't bring it up with him, aka he doesn't know that I've seen it. which honestly is probably for the best.

I confront her about it in a very calm way and she basically said she confronted him about it as soon as he posted it ...

Those don't seem to line up. Which is it? She called him into account or not?:confused:

She said she just wanted to be upfront with me about developing feelings for this guy, but I reacted very negatively towards that information, which caused her to feel extremely guilty and she didn't want to keep volunteering information because she thought it would hurt me

Those behaviors don't seem to line up either. You cannot (be up front) while at the same time (not giving information.) Which is the one she's wanting to do more of?

I dislike it when people make excuse like "I didn't want you to get hurt." When really they mean "I don't want to deal with this right now."

I might be wrong but it sounds like she's so conflict avoidant she will say whatever in the moment just to get away from the conflict. Whether true or not. Is that what is going on here? If so? That's going to be an area to work on.

How about you each agree to deal with your own feelings? She can deal with her upsets, you can deal with your upsets. But just spit it the actual data out already. People cannot be mind readers.

A long time ago my spouse and I had an argument about that sort of thing because he was SO conflict avoidant. He grew up in a household where all the children had to manage the mother's feelings for her. Not let mom have a cow. Because if she did, she would take it out on them. So he was always pussyfooting around waiting for Volcano Lady to blow trying to pre-manage her feelings for her and make the World nice around her so she didn't blow. So she wouldn't take it out on him.

When I would ask him to go to an event? He was afraid I would be mad and then blow up at him. So conflict avoidant him would say "Ok, maybe, sure" And I would go get tickets.

When the event date rolled around? He would say "Actually I don't want to."

And I would be mad.

And he would say "See! I knew you would be mad!" and get all a twitter thinking I was going to blow and be the new Volcano Lady. I am not like that.

I had to explain to him I could just go to the thing without him if it was not his cup of tea.

What I was mad about was not his "going-ness." I was mad about lies and being less than honest. Had he just been up front with me, I would have bought only 1 ticket and not wasted money. Or I would have had time to ask someone else who does enjoy that event to go with me instead. Instead of him leading me on, and me thinking we need 2 since we are both going. So now there was a wasted ticket because he was too scared to just be up front with me from the beginning.

I was not his mother, and I don't behave like that, and he needed to get past these issues if we were going to get along. Stop projecting his "old stuff" and bad habits on to me.

Just hard truth it to me. I might be bummed out (-) he doesn't like it, but it isn't the end of the world. I can go alone or with a friend if I have time to plan that. (+) We can go to some other event he likes better that we BOTH can enjoy now that I understand his tastes better. (+) That works out to net (+1). Which is fine.

That better than a bummer from him not coming, a bummer from him lying/leading me on, bummer from me wasting money, bummer from not getting to ask someone else cuz now there is no time to do that in, and a bummer from being cranky pants over all this stupid. That a net (-5).

I asked him to explain how if he doesn't want me to be hurting how giving me a (-5) is better than giving me a (+1). Along with giving himself the Volcano dread and putting himself through angst and upset rather than give clear communication and spare us both the grief. What good is this behavior? Where is the benefit?

He was not able to explain or list any benefit. And then he made the effort to STOP his bad habits leftover from his family of origin.

I get it when kids go that way. They are trapped in a house with an overbearing parent. All they can do to stay safe is pussyfoot and appease the Volcano. As adults? They moved out. So why keep on with old bad habits? Esp if they cause new problems in later relationships?

You seem to be willing to work on yourself and recondition yourself. Is she? Maybe that's something you could ask.

I don't know know if that story helps you, but my spouse is not longer so fearful. He is much better at sorting things out. And that's all it is. Conflict resolution? Is noticing something doesn't line up and sorting it out so it smooths out.

What's horrible about that?

Galagirl
 
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Hi berlinthomas,

Things sounded pretty bad in your first post, but in your second post, things sounded a lot better. I am getting the impression that you and your partner are getting things worked out, and are feeling better. Am I right?

It is wise that you stopped following the other guy's Instagram and Twitter. You were getting exposed to too much information. Like you said, you were still learning how the video game works when suddenly you were launched into an expert level. That won't happen so much now that you are aware of it.

If you're willing, I hope you'll keep us posted on how things are going. Who knows, we may have updated advice/input we can share. In any case, I am interested in your situation and would like to know how things turn out.

Hang in there and keep those lines of communication open.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
You know that "polyamory" means "many loves" rather than "many casual sex partners", right? That means your poly GF developing boyfriend/girlfriend relationships with other poly people is usually the aim.

I'm a little surprised that someone with "far more experience being poly" was willing to sign up to a "no feelings allowed" agreement, even if it was only supposed to be a temporary transition period.

Yes I realize that now, I've been reading other posts on this forum EDIT--and learning a lot that I didn't understand before especially with terminology--EDIT. What I want now is and open relationship, in the future I would like to be poly when I have more experience and feel more comfortable.
 
Those don't seem to line up. Which is it? She called him into account or not?:confused:

she told me she confronted him prior to me finding out about the post and his response was its just a joke and that he posted it on Instagram (not knowing I knew his Instagram) so that I wouldn't find out. later that day I confronted her. in other words what I'm saying is, she isn't going to him and being like "hey you made my boyfriend upset take that down" which I told her I'd prefer that just because at this point I'm over it and we don't need the unnecessary drama.



Those behaviors don't seem to line up either. You cannot (be up front) while at the same time (not giving information.) Which is the one she's wanting to do more of?

I dislike it when people make excuse like "I didn't want you to get hurt." When really they mean "I don't want to deal with this right now."

I might be wrong but it sounds like she's so conflict avoidant she will say whatever in the moment just to get away from the conflict. Whether true or not. Is that what is going on here? If so? That's going to be an area to work on.

How about you each agree to deal with your own feelings? She can deal with her upsets, you can deal with your upsets. But just spit it the actual data out already. People cannot be mind readers.

it was just a very emotionally sensitive and draining for a few days for us. Yes we are both conflict avoidance, I'm the king of it. I think mind reading was a huge reason why I was so upset at first. I wasn't communicating and my ego felt threatened and made up a story about how someone else is out to sabotage my relationship (remember kids, for the ego, death is always around the corner :)!!! ). I'll say that the talk we had yesterday was very much like what you're suggesting. We laid it all on the table and discovered things weren't as bad as we thought. The agreeing on our own feelings thing... I like it, that seems like a constructive way to work on this area

A long time ago my spouse and I had an argument about that sort of thing because he was SO conflict avoidant. He grew up in a household where all the children had to manage the mother's feelings for her. Not let mom have a cow. Because if she did, she would take it out on them. So he was always pussyfooting around waiting for Volcano Lady to blow trying to pre-manage her feelings for her and make the World nice around her so she didn't blow. So she wouldn't take it out on him.

When I would ask him to go to an event? He was afraid I would be mad and then blow up at him. So conflict avoidant him would say "Ok, maybe, sure" And I would go get tickets.

When the event date rolled around? He would say "Actually I don't want to."

And I would be mad.

And he would say "See! I knew you would be mad!" and get all a twitter thinking I was going to blow and be the new Volcano Lady. I am not like that.

I had to explain to him I could just go to the thing without him if it was not his cup of tea.

What I was mad about was not his "going-ness." I was mad about lies and being less than honest. Had he just been up front with me, I would have bought only 1 ticket and not wasted money. Or I would have had time to ask someone else who does enjoy that event to go with me instead. Instead of him leading me on, and me thinking we need 2 since we are both going. So now there was a wasted ticket because he was too scared to just be up front with me from the beginning.

I was not his mother, and I don't behave like that, and he needed to get past these issues if we were going to get along. Stop projecting his "old stuff" and bad habits on to me.

Just hard truth it to me. I might be bummed out (-) he doesn't like it, but it isn't the end of the world. I can go alone or with a friend if I have time to plan that. (+) We can go to some other event he likes better that we BOTH can enjoy now that I understand his tastes better. (+) That works out to net (+1). Which is fine.

That better than a bummer from him not coming, a bummer from him lying/leading me on, bummer from me wasting money, bummer from not getting to ask someone else cuz now there is no time to do that in, and a bummer from being cranky pants over all this stupid. That a net (-5).

I asked him to explain how if he doesn't want me to be hurting how giving me a (-5) is better than giving me a (+1). Along with giving himself the Volcano dread and putting himself through angst and upset rather than give clear communication and spare us both the grief. What good is this behavior? Where is the benefit?

He was not able to explain or list any benefit. And then he made the effort to STOP his bad habits leftover from his family of origin.

I get it when kids go that way. They are trapped in a house with an overbearing parent. All they can do to stay safe is pussyfoot and appease the Volcano. As adults? They moved out. So why keep on with old bad habits? Esp if they cause new problems in later relationships?

You seem to be willing to work on yourself and recondition yourself. Is she? Maybe that's something you could ask.

I don't know know if that story helps you, but my spouse is not longer so fearful. He is much better at sorting things out. And that's all it is. Conflict resolution? Is noticing something doesn't line up and sorting it out so it smooths out.

What's horrible about that?

Galagirl

That story helps me a lot, I can relate a lot to your husband. I'm sure my partner can too because she has troubled relationship with her alcoholic father.

The whole tip toeing around volcanos thing. Its actually very relevant to my life right now outside of my romantic relationship. I have trouble having meaningful friendships with other men. Lets just say that I always end up in either friend, work, or music-band type situations where I start out with good intentions but end up on the receiving end of an alpha male tyrant. Then basically I just communicate with them as little as possible to avoid eruptions, which turns into me "having a bad attitude" or "being bummed out all the time" or them being able to blame me for being a shitty person when we eventually stop being friends. I'm at a crossroads right now with a significant man in my life, and I'm planning my exit from that friendship/music relationship.

But I agree that this type of behavior is unneccesary in my relationship with my partner.
 
I'm glad you are doing a bit better.





Those don't seem to line up. Which is it? She called him into account or not?:confused:

Sequence of events:
-Guy posts picture
-partner confronts him
-Guy insists he's just trying to be funny and put it on Instagram thinking I wouldn't see it (his Insta username is different from his twitter but I figured it out)
-I see picture and confront my partner
-Partner didn't confront him a second time

I actually talked to her and I told her at this point I don't really care anymore and to have him take it down now would just cause unnecessary drama.


Those behaviors don't seem to line up either. You cannot (be up front) while at the same time (not giving information.) Which is the one she's wanting to do more of?

I dislike it when people make excuse like "I didn't want you to get hurt." When really they mean "I don't want to deal with this right now."

I might be wrong but it sounds like she's so conflict avoidant she will say whatever in the moment just to get away from the conflict. Whether true or not. Is that what is going on here? If so? That's going to be an area to work on.

How about you each agree to deal with your own feelings? She can deal with her upsets, you can deal with your upsets. But just spit it the actual data out already. People cannot be mind readers.

It was just a very tense, sensitive, and emotional few days. She can be very conflict avoidant if she thinks she'll hurt me. At other times she can be very blunt and straightforward. I am also very conflict avoidant, I'm like the king of being non confrontational. I very much like the idea of us being in charge of our own feelings and just laying it on the table, thats kind of what we did yesterday and it seems like a good routine to get into. I think mind reading was a big part of why I reacted so poorly. we weren't communicating so I didn't have much information, just little snippets here and there, and so my ego felt threatened and made up a story for how this guy is out to sabotage me. (remember kids, for the ego death is just around the corner! :)!!! )


A long time ago my spouse and I had an argument about that sort of thing because he was SO conflict avoidant. He grew up in a household where all the children had to manage the mother's feelings for her. Not let mom have a cow. Because if she did, she would take it out on them. So he was always pussyfooting around waiting for Volcano Lady to blow trying to pre-manage her feelings for her and make the World nice around her so she didn't blow. So she wouldn't take it out on him.

When I would ask him to go to an event? He was afraid I would be mad and then blow up at him. So conflict avoidant him would say "Ok, maybe, sure" And I would go get tickets.

When the event date rolled around? He would say "Actually I don't want to."

And I would be mad.

And he would say "See! I knew you would be mad!" and get all a twitter thinking I was going to blow and be the new Volcano Lady. I am not like that.

I had to explain to him I could just go to the thing without him if it was not his cup of tea.

What I was mad about was not his "going-ness." I was mad about lies and being less than honest. Had he just been up front with me, I would have bought only 1 ticket and not wasted money. Or I would have had time to ask someone else who does enjoy that event to go with me instead. Instead of him leading me on, and me thinking we need 2 since we are both going. So now there was a wasted ticket because he was too scared to just be up front with me from the beginning.

I was not his mother, and I don't behave like that, and he needed to get past these issues if we were going to get along. Stop projecting his "old stuff" and bad habits on to me.

Just hard truth it to me. I might be bummed out (-) he doesn't like it, but it isn't the end of the world. I can go alone or with a friend if I have time to plan that. (+) We can go to some other event he likes better that we BOTH can enjoy now that I understand his tastes better. (+) That works out to net (+1). Which is fine.

That better than a bummer from him not coming, a bummer from him lying/leading me on, bummer from me wasting money, bummer from not getting to ask someone else cuz now there is no time to do that in, and a bummer from being cranky pants over all this stupid. That a net (-5).

I asked him to explain how if he doesn't want me to be hurting how giving me a (-5) is better than giving me a (+1). Along with giving himself the Volcano dread and putting himself through angst and upset rather than give clear communication and spare us both the grief. What good is this behavior? Where is the benefit?

He was not able to explain or list any benefit. And then he made the effort to STOP his bad habits leftover from his family of origin.

I get it when kids go that way. They are trapped in a house with an overbearing parent. All they can do to stay safe is pussyfoot and appease the Volcano. As adults? They moved out. So why keep on with old bad habits? Esp if they cause new problems in later relationships?

You seem to be willing to work on yourself and recondition yourself. Is she? Maybe that's something you could ask.

I don't know know if that story helps you, but my spouse is not longer so fearful. He is much better at sorting things out. And that's all it is. Conflict resolution? Is noticing something doesn't line up and sorting it out so it smooths out.

What's horrible about that?

Galagirl


I'm sure my partner could relate to the volcanic parent thing as her relationship with her alcoholic father is rocky.

I for one relate very much to your husband. The whole tip toeing around other people is a very big reoccurring theme in my life. I have a very hard time maintaining friendships with other men. I tend to set out with good intentions but wind up in either a friendship/work/band situation as the one on the receiving end of an Alpha-Male Tyrant. What ends up happening is I detach myself from them and become distant as a way of coping being around them until I find the opportunity to leave. Currently I'm at a crossroads with a significant male friend/bandmate in my life. I'm planning my exit.
 
I very much like the idea of us being in charge of our own feelings and just laying it on the table, thats kind of what we did yesterday and it seems like a good routine to get into.

Yup. Do more of what does work and less of what doesn't.

Glad things are a bit calmer now and you both realized just putting cards on table plain is more efficient. Letting each one do their own emotional management is fair.

The conflict avoiding thing... I hope you guys keep working on those skills and it gets better. It sounds like you know where the weak spots are and are trying to do something constructive about it.

GL!
Galagirl
 
I do think, however, that her being 22 is going to be more of an issue than the poly stuff. That seems an awfully young age to have a 30-year-old boyfriend who thinks she is "the one" and is moving across the country to live with her. Does she live in a place that you would want to still live in if the relationship did not work out?

hahaha this actually cracked me up, because this whole situation was the first instance where I looked myself in the mirror and was like "oh my god... I'm dating a 22 year old..." In many other ways she is very mature and independent beyond her years. She has her shit together in life light years beyond what I had when I was her age.

Yes where she lives is one of my top 5 favorite cities in America and is very musician friendly, lots of great bands have come out of there and its way more affordable than LA lol. I moved to Brooklyn for a few years in my early 20's and I miss being in a big city terribly, so I feel like its meant to be.

Everything that I own thats of any value can fit in my car. I'm a ride share driver and make a good living where I live currently. where she lives the riders make a lot more! So I don't have to worry about finding a job, and if things go south its just a days drive back to my home state.

Also, a lot of poly people choose to be poly because they reject the idea of "the one." It strikes me that you used that phrase in your post. I am wondering, what does "the one" mean to you in the context of polyamory? What does your girlfriend believe about the idea of finding "the one" to love?

haha yeah I guess knowing what I know about poly relationships its kind of silly to refer to someone as "the one." what I mean by that is we agree that we are each others primary partner and want to eventually marry and start a family.

As far as poly vs open I hope I covered your other concerns in my follow-up post!
 
For instance theres one girl that likes me very much but makes my partner feel insecure, I don’t question it, I don’t even consider her an option so I leave her alone.
We don’t yell or fight with each other. But I told her that I was feeling very insecure and not okay with the fact that she is turning this guy into like a second boyfriend.
She said what they have going on is light hearted and not very deep, but it is still technically outside the realm of our expectations for what a casual partner is.

Sounds like she changed the playbook and you are still playing by the old rules…
 
Update: Help me I am in hell

My partner and I have had a handful of extremely sad and emotionally draining phone calls a few times this week. Saturday night she stated "I am sick to my stomach with guilt. I feel like no matter what I do, myself and someone else is going to get hurt."

Last night we spoke again and I asked her directly if she was breaking up with me.. she says no, and that she has been suffering a lot behind the scenes... sometimes to the point of vomitting. she says she still loves me, but doesn't know what to do right now. Verbatim from her text:

"i would really like to just talk to you like we're excited to share our days with each other. i think that might help us be able to communicate clearer and be less in our emotions, when it's clear that we still care about each other.


…that doesn't mean we can't have serious conversations if we need to. i think it'll just help us communicate better maybe
"


I agree with the sentiment.. but texting her over the course of the day I still feel very disconnected with her. I don't feel loved, missed, wanted, or needed.

The hardest part about all this:

I was on a two month tour from June 13th - Aug 8th. The plan we made before I left was that I would come home, work for a few weeks and then move to live with her and basically start a new life in a new city that I love. I hate my home state... I've moved away before and I resented the fact that I had to move back here. I've been "back" for about 3 years longer than I planned and for my own sanity I just need to fucking leave. there is nothing here for me, I have no friendships, just work and a free place to live. Its killing me that I had some set in stone life plans that I was really looking forward to that are now up in the air, and meanwhile I'm stuck in a place that I hate with this awful feeling of dread and uncertainty. I'm incredibly lonely and I really don't know who I could turn to. I don't want to bring this up with my parents because I don't think they would understand the concept of open relationships or polyamory and would probably become defensive (i.e. I don't want them to look at her as the "enemy" if that makes sense?).

loneliness, isolation, purgatory, anxiety, discomfort.

I dont do drugs, so my vice is eating very unhealthy foods as a way of coping.

Not sure what to do now
 
Too much drama for me. I would let her go at this time, and continue with the plan. Move to the city you love but do not live with her or date her. Find a roomie. Get your own apartment. Get on with your own music/band plans. Leave your home town that you dislike.

Doing stuff with her right now? Too much up and down drain for me. I would not enjoy a phone call that is basically "Let's pretend there isn't this elephant in the room we need to talk about first. Sweep it under the rug. Just tell me pretty stuff so I feel good. Let me whoosh all my crap on you so I feel better."

But then you feel slimed after and that's not so fun.

I cannot do that. Pretend that everything is ok when it isn't. This would not seem like a "let's actually work on things" call. This would seem like a "Let me use you, prop me up" call. There's being there for people and there's enabling poor behavior or enabling avoiding dealing with issues.

It's not a healthy dynamic to me.

You don't have to tell your parents about the Open thing. If you need to talk? You can tell them that you and GF aren't getting along so hot, you have different views in life (don't detail what the views ARE) and you are struggling with probably parting ways. It might not work out and you are sad.

You need some "there there poor baby" and some "You can get through this rough time" kind of encouragement and perhaps a hug. Maybe later in the week someone take you to air out -- go see a movie or something to take your mind off things. Could parents please say/do things like that?

State what you need up front. You are more likely to get it.

Maybe over time if she works on herself and her issues you guys can date again at that future point in time.

Galagirl
 
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From reading all this, I'd say you need to make some changes to your self awareness and communication skills across the board.

These problems are not just with your gf, they are with platonic friends too, those "alpha males" in your friends and colleagues groups. You end up people pleasing and feeling like second best everywhere you go. People don't like it... and you lose friends.

You're coping with peers the way you coped with your rageaholic mother.

Time to make some changes in yourself. You're the constant factor that sabotages ALL your relationships.

Once you are more confident to speak your truth, when you love yourself, know your value and express that confidence, quality people will be drawn to you.

Calling your very young polyamorous gf "The One" and having certain expectations of always being #1 to her is a form of self protection. But you don't feel safe. So you are trying to demand your young gf continually assure you, you are her "primary," with certain privileges. But this relationship, because of your conflict avoidance, is evolving into the same old dynamic that feels familiar to you.

You have chosen a poly woman who you know may fall for another, and that will make you feel second best again... less desirable, smaller dick, etc.

Even if you break up with gf, you will manifest this same dynamic over and over again, with new gf, with new friends. It sounds like, deep down, you are aware of this. But don't know exactly how to break the chain from your family of origin.

Ego health comes from within. Living with low self esteem, conflict avoidance, passive aggressiveness is not a fun way to live.
 
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